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View Full Version : Vicarious Video 3D? - Time to do your homework!!!


elementsrefraction
12-20-2007, 10:34 AM
All righty then.

First and foremost: Stereoscopic and real dynamic 3D is NOT the same.
Do NOT view the Vicarious video with your 10,000 Days glasses!!!

Now it's time to do a little research on 3D, anaglyph, stereoscopic. I highly suggest that everyone take a look at the following sites:

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopy
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaglyph_image
3. http://www.colorcode3d.com

1. We can sum up that the Vicarious video is defeniatly not stereoscopy.. Ok? To view traditional stereoscopic images, the easiest way to create depth perception in the brain is to provide the eyes of the viewer with two different images, representing two perspectives of the same object, with a minor deviation similar to the perspectives that both eyes naturally receive in binocular vision. That gives you the illusion of 3D. (like the ones on the package of 10k and Vicarious dvd) Then you can either cross your eyes 'till you get the 3d effect, or use the 10k glasses as we all know how to use....

The Vicarious video is NOT stereoscopy.

...Then what is it? Because something is really going on with the video, right?

2. Sure!
Up next is Anaglyph images. They are used to provide a stereoscopic 3D effect, when viewed with 2 color glasses (each lens a different color). Images are made up of two color layers, superimposed, but offset with respect to each other to produce a depth effect. Usually the main subject is in the center, while the foreground and background are shifted laterally in opposite directions. The picture contains two differently filtered colored images, one for each eye. When viewed through the "color coded" "anaglyph glasses", they reveal an integrated stereoscopic image. The visual cortex of the brain fuses this into perception of a three dimensional scene or composition.

In a red-blue anaglyph, for instance, the eye covered by the red filter sees the red parts of the image as "white", and the blue parts as "black" (with the brain providing some adaption for color); the eye covered by the blue filter perceives the opposite effect. True white or true black areas are perceived the same by each eye. The brain blends together the image it receives from each eye, and interprets the differences as being the result of different distances. This creates a normal stereograph image without requiring the viewer to cross his or her eyes.

...So, is this how the Vicarious video work?
- I don't think so. If you compare old classic anaglyph images to the Vicarious video, you can see that it is not the same, BUT something is still there. When watching the Vicarious video, you'll see that there is somewhat a blue side, and a brown/red side to some of the beings/objects, just as in old anaglyph movies.

Unfortnatly I don't have a pair of anaglyph glasses anymore, so I can't test it. But again, I really doubt that anaglyph (red/cyan-blue) glasses will work, so I will not recommend anyone to go out and buy such a pair, at least before someone can confirm that it work..


3. COLORCODE 3-D...... What the heck is that?
Colorcode 3-D is a new system to reproduce 3-dimensional images in a simple way with full color and depth information- somehow it works the same way as anaglyph, but the colors is brown/blue - just like the distorted outlines in the Vicarious video. It is way better that the old anaglyph metod, and less hard for the eyes.

5 years ago I bought the 3D Mania - Encounter In The Third Dimension dvd from www.colorcode3d.com, with 3-d glasses included - defniatly worth buying... These glasses seems to work just fine with the Vicarious dvd!! It is not 100% made for these glasses, there is a minor deviation to the images projected, but it really looks amazing.

This is where I will sum up and say, that I really don't know if the Vicarious video is 3D or not, something is defniatly there!!! Maybe it's something in between... Because the video is intended to be viewed for all audiences, those with glasses, and those without. (i guess) - But what I really can tell, is that I don't hesitate one minute to say, that when first my glasses are on, the Vicarious video looks soooo much better, not so dusty and distorted.. With my Colorcode glasses on, and my head in front of my 23" cinema display, the video really reaches out! Especially X (the man) looks amazing, the internal organs and stuff really looks cool! Amazing work! It is SO much more detalied than with the glasses off.

At last, this works for me! I think that the video indeed is 3D, but I don't think we will really know before Adam is going to speak out about it..

One more thing, the internal cover (not the stereoscopic image-booklet)- http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc293/Chuck_Of_Wah/PC130004.jpg works very well with my colorcode 3d glasses on!


So, unless Adam and Tool is going to give us some info on whether or not the video is in 3D, and what glasses to use, I highly recommend you guys to head to www.colorcode3d.com and buy yourself a 3D movie and some glasses.....and check it out for yourself.


Thank you Adam for making such a great video! Amazing work.


Questions....? feel free to mail me at [email protected]

LetoAtreides
12-20-2007, 10:58 AM
So, I've been reading all these posts about the 3d nature of the Vicarious video, and although your post is the most solid I have seen about the subject (I can see you HAVE done your homework), I still am completely unconvinced as to the validity of the 3d argument. The biggest reason for your theory not working is that if they used the ColorCode 3d technology, they would have to credit the company for the use, and they would most likely have some way to contact the company for glasses. However, there is something going on in the video, and I hope people read this, because I hope to provide the reason.

Now, first let me preface this by saying I am a 3D director/animator/modeller/texture artist and render artist. So, I do now what Adam Jones was trying to acheive, and respect it. So, why does it look this way? The answer is Chromatic Abberation. It is a technique that has very slowly creeping into the 3d field as of late, and I noticed it for what it was when I first saw the image posted on the ToolBand website. So, instead of giving my layman's explaination for it, here's is the Wiki site, which explains it in full. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_Abberation
Also, a link to a CG talk (one of the leaders in 3d art forums) thread wherein someone has used it on their image, and shown a link to a Plug-in that was made to acheive the effect.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=532817&page=13&pp=15
(post #191) and the image that post refers to if it doesnt show up (you might have to be a cg society member for that) http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ptlensuu3.jpg

So, in summary, it is a good theory, but not viable. It is simply a visual post-production effect (as opposed to a 3d image being a production effect using two offset virtual cameras) that i assume is used to show the "unseen aspects of the universe and the soul". Flame me if you want, but I am about 99% sure I'm correct.

But good work on the research, and I might try using the Color-code 3d tech if i ever do any 3d films in the future.

elementsrefraction
12-20-2007, 11:27 AM
Thank you very much for your reply... I have never heard of Chromatic Abberation, but also, when I first saw the Vicarious promo image on Toolband.com I immediatly thought, wow, this video is going to be in 3D.....

If you read my post one more time, you'll see that I did'nt say it was the Colorcode 3-D product Adam has been using, actually I said that the Colorcode glasses work fine with the video. :) But still not 100%......

Actually, when Adam began to show stereoscopic photography on his Myspace profile - years ago - about 1 year before 10,000 days was released, I emailed him and told him to check out the Colorcode3d website - I knew, at that time, that Adam was interested in stereoscopic photography, so I thought he would find Colorcode3D's products interesting... Because it is so much better than the old way of seing the illusion of 3D.

Respect to your tese about Chromatic Abberation... That might be what it is, but I know one thing for sure..... The Colorcode 3D glasses works fine with the Vicarious video, not said that I think Adam was using their products (I doubt that he did!) - But I am still strong convinced that there is something to the video...

At least I preffer to view the video with my 3-D glasses on. And I think that everyone should try it out.. All my mates says that there definatly IS something to the video, maybe it's 3D or not, but the 3D glasses works with that video.... Thats for sure.

elementsrefraction
12-20-2007, 11:35 AM
So.. I have read a few pages about Chromatic Abberation, and I don't really understand how it would be useful in a 3D CGI movie? - Ain't Chromatic Abberation something you add to a pre-photographed image or video?

Sorry if i'm wrong.. :)

phylleb
12-20-2007, 11:59 AM
All righty then.

First and foremost: Stereoscopic and real dynamic 3D is NOT the same.
Do NOT view the Vicarious video with your 10,000 Days glasses!!!

Now it's time to do a little research on 3D, anaglyph, stereoscopic. I highly suggest that everyone take a look at the following sites:

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopy
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaglyph_image
3. http://www.colorcode3d.com

1. We can sum up that the Vicarious video is defeniatly not stereoscopy.. Ok? To view traditional stereoscopic images, the easiest way to create depth perception in the brain is to provide the eyes of the viewer with two different images, representing two perspectives of the same object, with a minor deviation similar to the perspectives that both eyes naturally receive in binocular vision. That gives you the illusion of 3D. (like the ones on the package of 10k and Vicarious dvd) Then you can either cross your eyes 'till you get the 3d effect, or use the 10k glasses as we all know how to use....

The Vicarious video is NOT stereoscopy.

...Then what is it? Because something is really going on with the video, right?

2. Sure!
Up next is Anaglyph images. They are used to provide a stereoscopic 3D effect, when viewed with 2 color glasses (each lens a different color). Images are made up of two color layers, superimposed, but offset with respect to each other to produce a depth effect. Usually the main subject is in the center, while the foreground and background are shifted laterally in opposite directions. The picture contains two differently filtered colored images, one for each eye. When viewed through the "color coded" "anaglyph glasses", they reveal an integrated stereoscopic image. The visual cortex of the brain fuses this into perception of a three dimensional scene or composition.

In a red-blue anaglyph, for instance, the eye covered by the red filter sees the red parts of the image as "white", and the blue parts as "black" (with the brain providing some adaption for color); the eye covered by the blue filter perceives the opposite effect. True white or true black areas are perceived the same by each eye. The brain blends together the image it receives from each eye, and interprets the differences as being the result of different distances. This creates a normal stereograph image without requiring the viewer to cross his or her eyes.

...So, is this how the Vicarious video work?
- I don't think so. If you compare old classic anaglyph images to the Vicarious video, you can see that it is not the same, BUT something is still there. When watching the Vicarious video, you'll see that there is somewhat a blue side, and a brown/red side to some of the beings/objects, just as in old anaglyph movies.

Unfortnatly I don't have a pair of anaglyph glasses anymore, so I can't test it. But again, I really doubt that anaglyph (red/cyan-blue) glasses will work, so I will not recommend anyone to go out and buy such a pair, at least before someone can confirm that it work..


3. COLORCODE 3-D...... What the heck is that?
Colorcode 3-D is a new system to reproduce 3-dimensional images in a simple way with full color and depth information- somehow it works the same way as anaglyph, but the colors is brown/blue - just like the distorted outlines in the Vicarious video. It is way better that the old anaglyph metod, and less hard for the eyes.

5 years ago I bought the 3D Mania - Encounter In The Third Dimension dvd from www.colorcode3d.com, with 3-d glasses included - defniatly worth buying... These glasses seems to work just fine with the Vicarious dvd!! It is not 100% made for these glasses, there is a minor deviation to the images projected, but it really looks amazing.

This is where I will sum up and say, that I really don't know if the Vicarious video is 3D or not, something is defniatly there!!! Maybe it's something in between... Because the video is intended to be viewed for all audiences, those with glasses, and those without. (i guess) - But what I really can tell, is that I don't hesitate one minute to say, that when first my glasses are on, the Vicarious video looks soooo much better, not so dusty and distorted.. With my Colorcode glasses on, and my head in front of my 23" cinema display, the video really reaches out! Especially X (the man) looks amazing, the internal organs and stuff really looks cool! Amazing work! It is SO much more detalied than with the glasses off.

At last, this works for me! I think that the video indeed is 3D, but I don't think we will really know before Adam is going to speak out about it..

One more thing, the internal cover (not the stereoscopic image-booklet)- http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc293/Chuck_Of_Wah/PC130004.jpg works very well with my colorcode 3d glasses on!


So, unless Adam and Tool is going to give us some info on whether or not the video is in 3D, and what glasses to use, I highly recommend you guys to head to www.colorcode3d.com and buy yourself a 3D movie and some glasses.....and check it out for yourself.


Thank you Adam for making such a great video! Amazing work.


Questions....? feel free to mail me at [email protected]


...so do you own his colorcode business or what? sounds like a pathetic sales pitch to me. haven't we all learned something from TOOL over the years, if they don't say it, it ain't true. spend time volunteering with the disadvantaged youths instead of conjuring up b.s. duh...

LetoAtreides
12-20-2007, 12:16 PM
So.. I have read a few pages about Chromatic Abberation, and I don't really understand how it would be useful in a 3D CGI movie? - Ain't Chromatic Abberation something you add to a pre-photographed image or video?

Sorry if i'm wrong.. :)


It's not useful in any sense except for obtaining a certain look. And yes, like I said it is a post-processing effect, ie. it would be applied to the frames of the video after they are rendered. Many artists use it to try and "fake" lower quality film and photgraphy in a Digital/3D image; ie, trying to make a 3D (by which i mean CGI) image appear as if it is an actual photo or polaroid. But like I said, it may just be that he uses it to acheive a certain "ethereal" look to the video. Because of the way that it works, it will make what appears to be a sterioscopic image, but it's not true 3d.

elementsrefraction
12-20-2007, 01:25 PM
Okay.. Thank you both.

Yeah, it certainly looks stereoscopic then, and it works very good with the glasses anyway.

And no, i'm not a salesman for Colorcode 3D, I just happens to like their unique technology, just the same way as you like the band TOOL mr. phylleb.

Peter

LetoAtreides
12-20-2007, 01:36 PM
Well, maybe someone will see this and think about what I am saying, but as long as I put my 2 cents out on the table, I guess that's all that matters... So, here are a few more images showing chromatic abberation, including one I did using a plugin for photoshop (the picture of adam), and some zoomed in shots of it.

http://media.pluginz.com/?g=1822

http://www.constantcorrosion.com/chrom01.jpg
http://www.constantcorrosion.com/adamjoneschrom1.jpg
http://www.constantcorrosion.com/adamjoneschromzoom1.jpg
http://www.constantcorrosion.com/adamjoneschromzoom2.jpg
http://www.constantcorrosion.com/adamjoneschromzoom3.jpg

Make your own judgements, but I don't believe it's 3D. But, of course I know my words will not dissuade those who wish it to be true, so stick to your beliefs and clutch it like a cornerstone...
[edit]
(And I'm not trying to tell you that it wont produce a 3D style effect with glasses using certain lens colors, just saying that it is not true 3d, ie, it was not rendered from two seperate cameras, and composited)

elementsrefraction
12-20-2007, 01:59 PM
Thanks for the images, I see what you mean, actually those images also tend to produce that 3D like effect, with the colorcode glasses on. But nothing like the Vicarious video! Belive me or not...
I guess that somebody else need to go buy a pair of glasses before anyone will see my point here... All I can say, sad for you! - and if Adam is out there, anywhere?, then you definiatly should go buy a pair of those proclaimed colorcode glasses I've been talking so much about, and see what amazing work you have done without even knowing it....

Yours sincerely
Salesman Peter.
www.colorcode3d.com hahahahaha

webaries.com
12-20-2007, 03:38 PM
i always thought some of the vid loops used during the live shows were in 3d (one of the types at least) sometimes as well.
also, has anyone had experience with the products being sold at Edimensional, apparently turns live tv and video games into perceptible 3d but u need shutter glasses and it will only work with a crt monitor or something http://edimensional.com/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=ebb39d54bf9ea0867e727234a982b084

praefector
12-20-2007, 03:44 PM
puscifer.com should sell 3d glasses

panocha21
12-20-2007, 09:04 PM
It's not useful in any sense except for obtaining a certain look. And yes, like I said it is a post-processing effect, ie. it would be applied to the frames of the video after they are rendered. Many artists use it to try and "fake" lower quality film and photgraphy in a Digital/3D image; ie, trying to make a 3D (by which i mean CGI) image appear as if it is an actual photo or polaroid. But like I said, it may just be that he uses it to acheive a certain "ethereal" look to the video. Because of the way that it works, it will make what appears to be a sterioscopic image, but it's not true 3d.

I think your explanation is the best. It's not 3-D, it's just an effect. The picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Chromatic_aberration_%28comparison%29.jpg illustrates this well and looks to be the same effect as used in the video.

Also, it's interesting that "X" (the main character) has interlaced effects on his skin, almost as if he himself is merely an image from a TV screen. Interlaced display technology is basically what is used for televisions. Rather than displaying a full set of lines, only half the lines are displayed at a time, but the TV switches from the odd number lines to the even number lines very quickly. It's a cheap trick to get higher resolutions.

There is also a method for creating interlaced 3-D pictures using LCS shutter glasses. However, this video does not use that technology because it would still be easy to see the two images (left and right). Here's an example of interlaced 3-D pictures:

http://holonet.khm.de/visual_alchemy/images/holo2nt.jpg

tempathy
12-20-2007, 10:09 PM
the vicarious video, is, however, colonoscopy
endoscopy
right up your back alley

elementsrefraction
12-21-2007, 06:09 AM
Ok, my fucking last comment on the subject..!. The video is indeed fucking stunning beautiful with my fucking colorcode 3D glasses on..!!! Whether or not the video is in 3D..... Last night I studied alot on the Cromatic Abberation subject, I also downloaded a plugin for my photoshop to play with..... But jeeeeez, there is something to the video, otherwise I would'nt fucking say so.


So go buy your 3D colorcode glasses or don't, you to Adam Jones.... It might be a coincidence, but the video is much better with those glasses....

No more comments.

panocha21
12-21-2007, 04:51 PM
There is a lot of brown in the video, so I would expect that the brown and blue colorcode glasses would have some kind of effect. Not a 3-D effect, but just a kind of highlighting that gives the illusion of the brown "jumping out" at you. For example, when I put on my red/cyan 3-D glasses, the red colors stand out because the glasses filter out that color. Same thing happens with the blues.

iAMtheMA!
12-22-2007, 11:53 AM
RoygbiV

Rotating_Energy_Field
12-27-2007, 05:53 AM
One more thing, the internal cover (not the stereoscopic image-booklet)- http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc293/Chuck_Of_Wah/PC130004.jpg works very well with my colorcode 3d glasses on!

You're right. The image of the Humanoid IS 3D when viewed with the traditional red/blue anaglyph glasses. Don't believe it? Try it out for yourself.

iAMtheMA!
12-27-2007, 12:32 PM
"our body is light, we are eternal"