My Shadow has surfaced...

[Corksil]

Hey I don't doubt that this idea has been offered in the past by ppl, but this is my own revelation in the past few weeks....

In 46+2 he talks about the shadow.... I think this has to do with the inner-ego, but this seems like the normal interpretation. Building off of that.... I think the song is about a form of ascension, BUT I think it is through ego-death one experiences with psychedelic drugs.

This cannot be explained easily to one who has not experienced it, but to those lucky or unlucky enough to have it happen to them, I feel they will be able to see my points.

When one uses enough LSD-25 to achieve a full saturation, and trips close to as hard as possible on the chemical, if conditions are such, moods are such, and everything lines up, the ego dies. Any LSD user lucky enough to try LSD-25 (In brief, the supposed pure molecule, merely mildly diluted crystal LSD) -- they know that the effects of 25 are much different from those one experiences with supposed "LSD" or "acid."

With acid or dilute LSD (street "acid") -- one experiences a sort of ego awareness, and in high doses the ego slips away, but does not fully vanish. Through the use of 25, one can effectively "kill" their ego for a few hours (Like I said, if they can achieve a high enough dosage or "saturation") HOWEVER -- The ego death one experiences with 25 is of cleaner effect. Most of the time, ppl take a lot of acid and they may experience the ego-fade, but they are too fucked up (excuse my language) to really realize it most of the time.

With LSD25, also known as pure light, the user remains relatively sober, even in extremely high dosages. I say sober because the user can still communicate, walk, talk, eat, function (close-to) completely normally, unlike the side-effects found with unclean "acid" or street LSD.

With repeated use, the ego-death becomes permanent. It slowly slips into daily life, almost imperceivable at first, but soon becomes very obvious to the user. If anyone is interested in this post, please reply with interest and I shall continue to explain what I think the song is talking about.

This is my own interpretation, and I shall continue to believe it whether asked to share or not. Thank you MJK.

[Tool_Is_Sick]

Hey I don't doubt that this idea has been offered in the past by ppl, but this is my own revelation in the past few weeks....

In 46+2 he talks about the shadow.... I think this has to do with the inner-ego, but this seems like the normal interpretation. Building off of that.... I think the song is about a form of ascension, BUT I think it is through ego-death one experiences with psychedelic drugs.

This cannot be explained easily to one who has not experienced it, but to those lucky or unlucky enough to have it happen to them, I feel they will be able to see my points.

When one uses enough LSD-25 to achieve a full saturation, and trips close to as hard as possible on the chemical, if conditions are such, moods are such, and everything lines up, the ego dies. Any LSD user lucky enough to try LSD-25 (In brief, the supposed pure molecule, merely mildly diluted crystal LSD) -- they know that the effects of 25 are much different from those one experiences with supposed "LSD" or "acid."

With acid or dilute LSD (street "acid") -- one experiences a sort of ego awareness, and in high doses the ego slips away, but does not fully vanish. Through the use of 25, one can effectively "kill" their ego for a few hours (Like I said, if they can achieve a high enough dosage or "saturation") HOWEVER -- The ego death one experiences with 25 is of cleaner effect. Most of the time, ppl take a lot of acid and they may experience the ego-fade, but they are too fucked up (excuse my language) to really realize it most of the time.

With LSD25, also known as pure light, the user remains relatively sober, even in extremely high dosages. I say sober because the user can still communicate, walk, talk, eat, function (close-to) completely normally, unlike the side-effects found with unclean "acid" or street LSD.

With repeated use, the ego-death becomes permanent. It slowly slips into daily life, almost imperceivable at first, but soon becomes very obvious to the user. If anyone is interested in this post, please reply with interest and I shall continue to explain what I think the song is talking about.

This is my own interpretation, and I shall continue to believe it whether asked to share or not. Thank you MJK.

Very interesting post man i havent done lsd and i know i never will, not my cup of tea ya know? I dont fully underrstand your post but its still kool. but i just wanna say that Drugs are bad...Mmmmkay?

[dmurf]

What kind of 'street' acid are you taking if you can't communicate, walk, talk, etc? I mean, I've had mumbling sessions, but for the most part, I have still been able to do all of that with some pretty wicked acid (death acid, for one). I dunno, maybe I have a larger constitution than most.

[Tool_Is_Sick]

Maybe i should starting taking some acid to understand what the hell you people are talking about....im scared of drugs. lol

[Inner_Eulogy]

Hey I don't doubt that this idea has been offered in the past by ppl, but this is my own revelation in the past few weeks....

In 46+2 he talks about the shadow.... I think this has to do with the inner-ego, but this seems like the normal interpretation. Building off of that.... I think the song is about a form of ascension, BUT I think it is through ego-death one experiences with psychedelic drugs.

This cannot be explained easily to one who has not experienced it, but to those lucky or unlucky enough to have it happen to them, I feel they will be able to see my points.

When one uses enough LSD-25 to achieve a full saturation, and trips close to as hard as possible on the chemical, if conditions are such, moods are such, and everything lines up, the ego dies. Any LSD user lucky enough to try LSD-25 (In brief, the supposed pure molecule, merely mildly diluted crystal LSD) -- they know that the effects of 25 are much different from those one experiences with supposed "LSD" or "acid."

With acid or dilute LSD (street "acid") -- one experiences a sort of ego awareness, and in high doses the ego slips away, but does not fully vanish. Through the use of 25, one can effectively "kill" their ego for a few hours (Like I said, if they can achieve a high enough dosage or "saturation") HOWEVER -- The ego death one experiences with 25 is of cleaner effect. Most of the time, ppl take a lot of acid and they may experience the ego-fade, but they are too fucked up (excuse my language) to really realize it most of the time.

With LSD25, also known as pure light, the user remains relatively sober, even in extremely high dosages. I say sober because the user can still communicate, walk, talk, eat, function (close-to) completely normally, unlike the side-effects found with unclean "acid" or street LSD.

With repeated use, the ego-death becomes permanent. It slowly slips into daily life, almost imperceivable at first, but soon becomes very obvious to the user. If anyone is interested in this post, please reply with interest and I shall continue to explain what I think the song is talking about.

This is my own interpretation, and I shall continue to believe it whether asked to share or not. Thank you MJK.

ALL I REALLY WANNA KNOW IS WHERE THE HELL CAN I GET SOME? Hell, I'd settle for the so-called "street acid" as long as it's decent. I haven't done that stuff in like 9yrs and I've been dying to dive into a reminscent experience but I have no clue where or how to find any around me.

[GideonBufo]

What kind of 'street' acid are you taking if you can't communicate, walk, talk, etc? I mean, I've had mumbling sessions, but for the most part, I have still been able to do all of that with some pretty wicked acid (death acid, for one). I dunno, maybe I have a larger constitution than most.

Acid trips are defined into stages +1,2,3,4.
Its possible he was in 3 or 4 because speech and motor skills can completely cut off at higher doses.

[Corksil]

Neither Corksil, or the poster have any experience with the above mentioned drugs, and they both agree that drugs are bad. Don't mess around with them.

Just figured I'd throw out a hypothetical meaning to the song...

[dmurf]

Acid trips are defined into stages +1,2,3,4.
Its possible he was in 3 or 4 because speech and motor skills can completely cut off at higher doses.

Wow. Those must be HUGE doses, then. I mean, granted, there's times when my sentences were a 'bit' contorted, but ... I dunno. I guess I should start dosin' again! :D

[athens99tool]

I can relate to this song so much. A pinpoint blueprint of my life. Crawling on my belly, shedding my skin, sluffing off my neurotic delusions. But the title escapes me. The overwhelming majority of MJK's lyrics don't include the title, but the title fits perfectly without being mentioned in other TOOL songs. Could someone please the me the fucking relevence of 46&2 as the title of one of my all time favorite TOOL masterpieces.

[Tool_Is_Sick]

46 and 2 = GumDrops.

[miketh74]

Acid does tweek the senses. You're actually more sensual to your surroundings making speech a lot harder to concentrate on b/c your brain is taking in a lot of info while tripping.

Dam I miss those days sometimes.

:(

[sp1n0za]

My last experience with acid was about 4 hours of fun and entertainment then 24 hours of anxiety and depression. Personally I think it's my disposition, place in life (cultural and family) and the choices I have made. The experience, however, with paper acid was not one I recall as pleasant but necessary...not sure and have resolved myself in letting it go.

I have a hard time getting stoned without becoming so introspective that it severely interferes with my ability to function for days. My personal take on using drugs to enter into introspection and self-realization is that one doesn't really know unless they try it. Obviously, the logic here is dangerous and does not apply to all experiences, e.g. suicide, mutilation, etc.--but hopefully you get the point.

I think this song is absolutely summoning...it is difficult to listen to the lyrics and not feel a certain "reality check," from both the lyrics and the music. For those that enjoy a fairly short read I suggest Owning Your Own Shadow: Understanding the Dark Side of the Psyche by Robert Johnson. It is helpful in fleshing out this theory and perhaps the application of it.

Thanks for the thread.

[Oneeye]

Maybe i should starting taking some acid to understand what the hell you people are talking about....im scared of drugs. lol

It is completely understandable to be afraid of drugs, especially the way they are portrayed in the media and in school during our lives as children. If psychedelics are being used to (get fucked up lololol) they are not very useful for spiritual reasons. However with the right intentions nothing in the world can open your third eye and awaken your inner self the way a psychedelic substance can. I highly recommend at least one time in your life trying it, even heavy meditation can not take you where psychedelics can.

If you are very fearful of the substance you will most definitely have a mind-fuck of an experience which will be "a bad trip" however even that experience will teach you a lot about yourself. If you are fearful of lsd or mushrooms. I would recommend using mescaline it is so pure and natural feeling. Mescaline is the active ingredient in peyote and has a long history of spiritual use. Although peyote is an illegal cacti in the US you can take a trip to arizona and join a church which will protect you from the laws against it.

The Peyote Way Church of God. Their address is Star RT - 1, Box -7X, Willcox AZ 85643. By becoming a member of the Church, you will be protected from prosecution in the States that allow the Peyote sacrament.

As well as the San Pedro and Peruvian Torch they are both sold legally at nurseries across the states and are legal to obtain. Illegal to consume but not to buy. Mescaline will not give you as much of a head-fuck as lsd or mushrooms and is a great place to start if you're interested in psychedelics as spiritual tools, rather than party drugs. The Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley is good reading material to ease your mind if you are interested. The entire book can be read online here ... http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/writings/huxley_doors.shtml

Mushrooms are also illegal to own, however one can legally buy the spores and grow them, themselves. There is a wealth of information on a forum called The Shroomery, which has information about growing and online vendors who will sell you spores which are 100% legal.

I'm not advocating drug use (well I guess I kind of am) but if you are even the slightest bit interested in the psychedelic experience you should try it at least once. The world will never be the same afterwords. Your Third Eye will have awoken and things will be seen in a different light forever. Do not let propaganda and unjust laws scare you off.

[iAMtheMA!]

:)

[Oneeye]

Neither Corksil, or the poster have any experience with the above mentioned drugs, and they both agree that drugs are bad. Don't mess around with them.

Just figured I'd throw out a hypothetical meaning to the song...

Drugs are inanimate objects and thus are not bad. Humans and their inherent nature of abuse and irresponsibility in using said drugs are bad. We are evil, not the drugs.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Word.

People around this area try to say they have acid, but it's just LSA. A precursor to LSD. Pathetic bullshit imo

Hell, I don't even know where to get that. I guess I'm stuck giving this mescaline thing a try.

[Oneeye]

Word.

People around this area try to say they have acid, but it's just LSA. A precursor to LSD. Pathetic bullshit imo

That's shitty that people would be marketing a false product. LSA has it's place but that's definitely pathetic bullshit to pull on people. Especially cause you could just go buy some Morning Glory Seeds and make a tea for like a $1.00 the packet of seeds will cost you.

[miketh74]

I'm partial to shrooms. All natural, all powerful, and all insightful. So much so it even scared me. So drugs can be scary. I did shrooms until I realized I was taking in way too much for my brain to handle. As is with most people that can't handle their preferable drug. Everyone just has to learn their limits.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I have a powerful lust for pink salmon...

god-damn mescaline why does it have to be so fucking pure???

Huh? What does Pink Salmon and mescaline have to do with one another? And mescaline can only be PURE if correctly extracted.

[Rolo]

Why even bother to debate? You know Styx by now.

Maybe he is the living example of what you get when mescaline and pink salmon are consumed at the same time.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I like to think of him as a friendly reminder to methheads and PCP users everywhere what they'll be if they continue with their drugs of choice.

<snicker>

[Oneeye]

Huh? What does Pink Salmon and mescaline have to do with one another? And mescaline can only be PURE if correctly extracted.

I think he meant pure in the sense of (pure like feeling normal and natural) sort of pure compared to LSD which is chemical and certainly isn't very friendly to the mind.

But you are correct Mescaline can only be pure if correctly extracted or if you're a bad ass mother fuckin chemist with a sick ass lab and can synthesize the shit yourself. Which I'm pretty safe to assume is about .00000001 of the population. Boil a tea of cactus goop and drink it's good enough. Mescaline is awesome. Fuck LSD, Fuck Shrooms, Mescaline is awesome, it's actually related to adrenaline in our bodies. And a 2C-B a research chemical and phenthylamine is it's precursor actually. It's subtle, it doesn't feel like ACID where you're like you vs. yourself. It's not like shrooms where your body is telling you you're poisoned. It just feels "right.

[Oneeye]

meh, shrooms are always a more pleasant "dissolving into realms" experience for me. I've never had a bad / scary shroom trip. LSD is a lot more intense for me.

Have to agree with you there. Shrooms are much more pleasant of an experience than LSD in my opinion. It feels more natural and safe, LSD can really be hardcore. I still prefer Mescaline but Shrooms are pretty cool. It's all about set, setting and dose. Wrong place wrong time, bad trip. Too much wrong place, bad trip. Too much bad mindframe, bad trip. It's all about set and setting. LSD is too chemically for me, you can just feel what it's doing to you, you know it's not suppose to be there.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Me, my set and setting are usually good enough that I can't feel any chemical damage or any such from it. I feel more damaged after drinking several energy drinks to make it through a working after not being able to sleep for days. LSD feels just as natural as my body's own hormones.

I've done both and I can totally agree with OneEye on this, LSD definately feels much more forced on on your system and chemically compared to shrooms, a much more natural feeling. Mescaline I will know in the next couple of weeks and will report back.

[Tool_Is_Sick]

Damn Drugies... :)

[Corksil]

I get more furious with each post made.

I feel inclined to state that much of the above information pertaining to "drugs" is incorrect and inaccurate. The reason these chemicals are not more widely used is because of their strong negative connotations. (Connotation defined - '...refers to 'the associations, or positive or negative feelings it evokes, which may or may not be indicated in a dictionary definition.' (Ur: 1997:61).

Lack of available accurate information and heavy promotion of disinformation leaves most chemicals gravely misunderstood.

LSD is not "bad because it's chemical" - it was derived from a NATURAL fungus that grows on rye bread. The synthesis modifies this fungus. For further reading - "My Problem Child" by Albert Hoffmann. http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_problem_child/

Shrooms are not "more chill" in any way. All of the compounds mentioned in this thread are equally perception shattering.

LSD is not "harder on the mind" - there is no empirical evidence that LSD harms the user/patient in any way shape or form. And no kids, it does not stay in your spinal fluid. The stiff sensations one experiences after taking it can largly be attributed to clenching of the muscles during the experience in an attempt to brace against it.

Unfortunately, the chemicals available nowadays are rarely LSD. Those that actually are, are heavily modified and cut down with other substances. This same behavior can be seen with other drugs.

Mescaline is not any less intense or more suited to a first trip, from what my friend told me, this is quite the opposite. Mescaline experiences seem more visual, which can be understood as more intense - additionally, they have a tendency to do what they will, and take the user for the ride. Au contrair LSD may be easily controlled. Final word - they can all fuck you up equally.

Drugs should not be taken in a manner that damages the user, enviroment, surrounding people, etc etc. There is a large difference between USE and ABUSE. These chemicals can open the mind to new concepts or ideas.

Additional Reading For Those Interested
- http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_problem_child/ [LSD - My Problem Child, Hoffmann.]
- TiKHAL a Chemical Love Story, Shulgun/Shulgin (sp?)
- PiKHAL a Continuation, Shulgun/Shulgin (sp?)
- DMT - The Spirit Molecule, Strassman
- the list goes on, but I digress.

Please excuse my sharp tone. I become agitated when misinformation is un-knowingly spread. I also feel inclined to state that I am talking out of my ass and I do not know anything about anything.

As mentioned previously, neither Corksil or the poster have ever tried any of these drugs and does not condone their use.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Haven't you seen fear and loathing in las vegas?

"once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push
the limits as far as you can"

anyway there's a part in the movie where he says I have a powerful lust for
pink salmon...and they are all wacked on on shit like mescal

Yeah, it's a great movie...been a long time since I've seen it though

[Inner_Eulogy]

I get more furious with each post made.

I feel inclined to state that much of the above information pertaining to "drugs" is incorrect and inaccurate. The reason these chemicals are not more widely used is because of their strong negative connotations. (Connotation defined - '...refers to 'the associations, or positive or negative feelings it evokes, which may or may not be indicated in a dictionary definition.' (Ur: 1997:61).

Lack of available accurate information and heavy promotion of disinformation leaves most chemicals gravely misunderstood.

LSD is not "bad because it's chemical" - it was derived from a NATURAL fungus that grows on rye bread. The synthesis modifies this fungus. For further reading - "My Problem Child" by Albert Hoffmann. http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_problem_child/

Shrooms are not "more chill" in any way. All of the compounds mentioned in this thread are equally perception shattering.

LSD is not "harder on the mind" - there is no empirical evidence that LSD harms the user/patient in any way shape or form. And no kids, it does not stay in your spinal fluid. The stiff sensations one experiences after taking it can largly be attributed to clenching of the muscles during the experience in an attempt to brace against it.

Unfortunately, the chemicals available nowadays are rarely LSD. Those that actually are, are heavily modified and cut down with other substances. This same behavior can be seen with other drugs.

Mescaline is not any less intense or more suited to a first trip, from what my friend told me, this is quite the opposite. Mescaline experiences seem more visual, which can be understood as more intense - additionally, they have a tendency to do what they will, and take the user for the ride. Au contrair LSD may be easily controlled. Final word - they can all fuck you up equally.

Drugs should not be taken in a manner that damages the user, enviroment, surrounding people, etc etc. There is a large difference between USE and ABUSE. These chemicals can open the mind to new concepts or ideas.

Additional Reading For Those Interested
- http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_problem_child/ [LSD - My Problem Child, Hoffmann.]
- TiKHAL a Chemical Love Story, Shulgun/Shulgin (sp?)
- PiKHAL a Continuation, Shulgun/Shulgin (sp?)
- DMT - The Spirit Molecule, Strassman
- the list goes on, but I digress.

Please excuse my sharp tone. I become agitated when misinformation is un-knowingly spread. I also feel inclined to state that I am talking out of my ass and I do not know anything about anything.

As mentioned previously, neither Corksil or the poster have ever tried any of these drugs and does not condone their use.

If you've never tried any of these then you're a fucking hypocrite to even open your mouth on the subject. If you haven't done them than it's no wonder you have no fucking clue what you're talking about and the fact that what we're saying doesn't seem to make sense to you. Dis-information is what people liek you spread with your non-experienced ass. YES, I know how LSD is made but it IS chemically altered to become LSD genius. Either way we were speaking of the way it makes you feel, not it's biological makeup.

Anyways, thanks for your comment Big Brother

[Oneeye]

I get more furious with each post made.

I feel inclined to state that much of the above information pertaining to "drugs" is incorrect and inaccurate. The reason these chemicals are not more widely used is because of their strong negative connotations. (Connotation defined - '...refers to 'the associations, or positive or negative feelings it evokes, which may or may not be indicated in a dictionary definition.' (Ur: 1997:61).

Lack of available accurate information and heavy promotion of disinformation leaves most chemicals gravely misunderstood.

LSD is not "bad because it's chemical" - it was derived from a NATURAL fungus that grows on rye bread. The synthesis modifies this fungus. For further reading - "My Problem Child" by Albert Hoffmann. http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_problem_child/

Shrooms are not "more chill" in any way. All of the compounds mentioned in this thread are equally perception shattering.

LSD is not "harder on the mind" - there is no empirical evidence that LSD harms the user/patient in any way shape or form. And no kids, it does not stay in your spinal fluid. The stiff sensations one experiences after taking it can largly be attributed to clenching of the muscles during the experience in an attempt to brace against it.

Unfortunately, the chemicals available nowadays are rarely LSD. Those that actually are, are heavily modified and cut down with other substances. This same behavior can be seen with other drugs.

Mescaline is not any less intense or more suited to a first trip, from what my friend told me, this is quite the opposite. Mescaline experiences seem more visual, which can be understood as more intense - additionally, they have a tendency to do what they will, and take the user for the ride. Au contrair LSD may be easily controlled. Final word - they can all fuck you up equally.

Drugs should not be taken in a manner that damages the user, enviroment, surrounding people, etc etc. There is a large difference between USE and ABUSE. These chemicals can open the mind to new concepts or ideas.

Additional Reading For Those Interested
- http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_problem_child/ [LSD - My Problem Child, Hoffmann.]
- TiKHAL a Chemical Love Story, Shulgun/Shulgin (sp?)
- PiKHAL a Continuation, Shulgun/Shulgin (sp?)
- DMT - The Spirit Molecule, Strassman
- the list goes on, but I digress.

Please excuse my sharp tone. I become agitated when misinformation is un-knowingly spread. I also feel inclined to state that I am talking out of my ass and I do not know anything about anything.

As mentioned previously, neither Corksil or the poster have ever tried any of these drugs and does not condone their use.


I never said LSD was bad for you or anything of the sort. I just said to me it feels more chemically and forced in my own experiences. I hope you aren't speaking to me in regards to false information. I haven't said anything to the contrary of what you've already said. I've had plenty of experiences with Mescaline, from Peyote several other Cacti and pure mescaline crystals. And I can tell you that LSD is much more intense and takes you "for a ride" more so than mescaline. LSD easily has the power to overtake your mind and is not at all easy to control in that regard. To me it has been less intense, remember everyone is different and reacts differently and set and setting make a big difference as well. Also no where in my posts or any other that I can see did anyone say that LSD stays in your spinal fluid. You may not have been speaking to me, but if you look at my posts none of them claim anything of the sort. Only that in my own experiences LSD has felt more chemically and intense.

Somewhere above I was speaking of "pure" as in natural and more friendly to the mind and said something like fuck LSD and fuck Mushrooms, but I meant chemically in the sense of how it made me feel. And how much LSD is chemically in that regard. They're all chemicals obviously.

[insaner]

I get more furious with each post made.

I feel inclined to state that much of the above information pertaining to "drugs" is incorrect and inaccurate. The reason these chemicals are not more widely used is because of their strong negative connotations. (Connotation defined - '...refers to 'the associations, or positive or negative feelings it evokes, which may or may not be indicated in a dictionary definition.' (Ur: 1997:61).

Lack of available accurate information and heavy promotion of disinformation leaves most chemicals gravely misunderstood.

LSD is not "bad because it's chemical" - it was derived from a NATURAL fungus that grows on rye bread. The synthesis modifies this fungus. For further reading - "My Problem Child" by Albert Hoffmann. http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_problem_child/

Shrooms are not "more chill" in any way. All of the compounds mentioned in this thread are equally perception shattering.

LSD is not "harder on the mind" - there is no empirical evidence that LSD harms the user/patient in any way shape or form. And no kids, it does not stay in your spinal fluid. The stiff sensations one experiences after taking it can largly be attributed to clenching of the muscles during the experience in an attempt to brace against it.

Unfortunately, the chemicals available nowadays are rarely LSD. Those that actually are, are heavily modified and cut down with other substances. This same behavior can be seen with other drugs.

Mescaline is not any less intense or more suited to a first trip, from what my friend told me, this is quite the opposite. Mescaline experiences seem more visual, which can be understood as more intense - additionally, they have a tendency to do what they will, and take the user for the ride. Au contrair LSD may be easily controlled. Final word - they can all fuck you up equally.

Drugs should not be taken in a manner that damages the user, enviroment, surrounding people, etc etc. There is a large difference between USE and ABUSE. These chemicals can open the mind to new concepts or ideas.

Additional Reading For Those Interested
- http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_problem_child/ [LSD - My Problem Child, Hoffmann.]
- TiKHAL a Chemical Love Story, Shulgun/Shulgin (sp?)
- PiKHAL a Continuation, Shulgun/Shulgin (sp?)
- DMT - The Spirit Molecule, Strassman
- the list goes on, but I digress.

Please excuse my sharp tone. I become agitated when misinformation is un-knowingly spread. I also feel inclined to state that I am talking out of my ass and I do not know anything about anything.

As mentioned previously, neither Corksil or the poster have ever tried any of these drugs and does not condone their use.



thanks for making this post, it saved me a lot of time. glad to know at leasta few people left are actually doing their research.

i did shrooms at the tool show in nola and it was one of my favorite trips ever, and i have done lsd about 1000 times and shrooms prolly 100. my last trip on acid was about 4 years ago and with the quality of caps i can get these days, i dont see any reason at all to do it anymore. im not saying it wont happen, but i think its not very likely. i feel, after all those years of doing it, i took it about as far as it can go. the biggest experience i ever had was on the golden teachers and they were supposedly a strain directly cultivated by mckenna himself from oregon. this was still the only time i have completely gone in to a different world. we were controlling matter (making shit levitate) and both of my good friends turned in to alien guardian angels who had actually been watchng me my entire life and preparing me for something. buddha was in the room, and evrything in the universe was connected and it all made perfect sense. hell, we listened to the grateful dead and i got it. it was so real, that when i came down (if thats even possible after an experience like this) i asked mboth of my friends witha straight face if they were actually aliens. and im not some raving hippy, im a pretty level headed guy. i would highly recommend that everyone on earth go through this sort of thing if they ever want to KNOW that there is more to life than cheetos and television.

[Rolo]

i would highly recommend that everyone on earth go through this sort of thing if they ever want to KNOW that there is more to life than cheetos and television.

Hey, one day without cheeto's and it's "cold turkey" the hard way for me! :)

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

I'm a substance virgin, so I can't really relate to any of this, but you guys make drugs sound fun :)

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

I pretty much know enough about drugs at this point that I could make informed decisions and have a pleasant trip lol

[Oneeye]

Completely wrong. I have had the exact set and setting (or as near as makes no odds) for trips with both substances, and LSD is always more intense and abrupt with its visuals and perception shifts, whereas things just melt into one another for psilocybin.

At least for me anyway, but I'm pretty sure many will agree with me, that seems to be what we're talking about here. Try to keep in mind the next time you post that not everybody has the exact same body chemistry and people can react to the same substance in radically different ways.

Case-in-point: when my girlfriend and I popped some Hydrocodone, I mellowed out and she got hyper.

While Corksil you are correct that they are all powerful in the sense of altering the mind. If you really want to get technical LSD is more powerful just by sheer potency. LSD is dosed in micrograms, where as mescaline is dosed in milligrams. But you misunderstood most of our conversation to begin with. We aren't talking about what is good or bad for you in the chemical sense, but speaking of how they "feel". LSD has a very intense onset and you can literally feel it overtaking you. You're also talking about misinformation when you yourself are spreading it. And just to be clear i'm going to be redudant here and say it once again. We aren't talking about what is good or bad for you in the chemical sense, we are discussing how they FEEL.

[insaner]

read up on erowid as much as you can to inform yourself.


this is good advice. and no i have never taken dmt.

[miketh74]

They can be if used right. Be sure if you're ever interested in trying anything to read up on erowid as much as you can to inform yourself.

My very first point exactly. Funny how that came back around. Everyone needs to know their limitations to a substance. The only way to gain that knowledge is through experience. Tripping shrooms or LSD can be fun, just know your boundaries.

[Corksil]

Wow, isn't there a rule on this forum about self-incrimination? No? Well there damn well should be. Sadly, freedom of speech isn't what it used to be. For those of you who don't follow what I just said, read the title of this thread...

My posting here is done. This topic is no longer about what I intended it to be. (Tool song vs arguing about drugs.)

Commence further attacks on my ideas...

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

Yeah so umm 46&2 is a great song with deep meaning.

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

In all honesty, I never liked 46&2. Don't ask me why, I just don't like it.
And don't flame me for this, i'm not at all saying it's a bad song, just not really my favorite.

[insaner]

its not one of my favorite songs on the album, but it kills live and always has. i guess thats why they play it every show.

[Oneeye]

Wow, isn't there a rule on this forum about self-incrimination? No? Well there damn well should be. Sadly, freedom of speech isn't what it used to be. For those of you who don't follow what I just said, read the title of this thread...

My posting here is done. This topic is no longer about what I intended it to be. (Tool song vs arguing about drugs.)

Commence further attacks on my ideas...

You started a thread about the Tool song being about drugs. You felt the need to spread some disinformation about drugs and thus starting an "argument" about said drugs. And you completely missed that none of us were even talking about the chemical make up of said substances or how good or bad they are for you. We were all discussing (not arguing) about the experiences they give. And you speak of LSD-25 being completely able to be easily controlled is complete disinformation. Read Hoffmann's own god damn journal and you will see differently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD-25

During his first intentional trip he thought he was possessed by demons. This is by his own word and was the first LSD trip in history. The simple fact is regardless of which substance it is, LSD is the most powerful by volume. Micrograms are active not whereas others are milligrams. You misconstrued and ignored our conversation to the point of talking about spinal fluid where it had not even been mentioned until you felt inclined to bring it up.

Your oh so smart way of saying "my friend told me it feels this way" isn't hiding the fact you're speaking about yourself. Besides that, everything posted here is an opinion and under the use of a pseudonym so of course all of us are just like you. None of us have taken any illicit substance's and we are all just talking about hypotheticals. DUH. My character OneEye in my fictional novel had has lots of experiences with substances so I read up on them to make my character seem to know about how they feel.

No one here has solicited any substances or spoke of synthesizing or being in posession of anything illicit. Self incrimination is laughable. Also you have no clue under what circumstances people are talking from, maybe they were in Amsterdam while eating mushrooms? Maybe they are like you and "heard it from a friend". Or maybe they're like me and are writting a novel and their characters are experienced with using substances. Who knows, but you've certainly proven you don't.

[Corksil]

"With repeated use, the ego-death becomes permanent. It slowly slips into daily life, almost imperceivable at first, but soon becomes very obvious to the user."

- Anyone experienced this?

And I'm not talking about the day after fuzzy thinking and deja-vu...

[Oneeye]

. . .

Pwnt into oblivion.

Good job, Oneeye

Just needed to be said. Yourself and Inner also pointed out the hypocrisy and complete contradictions. Pats on the backs for all of us. Merry Christmas everyone.

[insaner]

"With repeated use, the ego-death becomes permanent. It slowly slips into daily life, almost imperceivable at first, but soon becomes very obvious to the user."

- Anyone experienced this?

And I'm not talking about the day after fuzzy thinking and deja-vu...

in my experience, the ego always comes back regardless. the problem is, short of living in a commune where everyone does acid all the time and somehow remain sane, you eventually have to go back in to the straight world and all of the bullshit that comes with it is there also. i believe this is why leary et al eventually gave up on the notion that lsd could somehow cure the world and revolutionize the world of psychology. the problem was you couldnt maintain the environment.

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

"With repeated use, the ego-death becomes permanent. It slowly slips into daily life, almost imperceivable at first, but soon becomes very obvious to the user."

- Anyone experienced this?

And I'm not talking about the day after fuzzy thinking and deja-vu...


Sometimes, when I stand up too fast.

[Oneeye]

in my experience, the ego always comes back regardless. the problem is, short of living in a commune where everyone does acid all the time and somehow remain sane, you eventually have to go back in to the straight world and all of the bullshit that comes with it is there also. i believe this is why leary et al eventually gave up on the notion that lsd could somehow cure the world and revolutionize the world of psychology. the problem was you couldnt maintain the environment.

Exactly. A permanent ego death isn't possible, regardless of the negative connotations that come along with the word "ego" the human ego is necessary for survival. You would not be able to function under permanent ego-death, eating, avoiding danger etc. would all be meaningless and impossible. Now a higher sense of purpose and enlightenment? That can certainly slip through to daily life. In a Buddhist sense of thinking, losing attachment, killing negative parts of the ego like greed and jealousy etc.

[Inner_Eulogy]

My character OneEye in my fictional novel had has lots of experiences with substances so I read up on them to make my character seem to know about how they feel.

No one here has solicited any substances or spoke of synthesizing or being in posession of anything illicit. Self incrimination is laughable. Also you have no clue under what circumstances people are talking from, maybe they were in Amsterdam while eating mushrooms? Maybe they are like you and "heard it from a friend". Or maybe they're like me and are writting a novel and their characters are experienced with using substances. Who knows, but you've certainly proven you don't.

That's quite an imagination you got there.

[miketh74]

Exactly. A permanent ego death isn't possible, regardless of the negative connotations that come along with the word "ego" the human ego is necessary for survival. You would not be able to function under permanent ego-death, eating, avoiding danger etc. would all be meaningless and impossible. Now a higher sense of purpose and enlightenment? That can certainly slip through to daily life. In a Buddhist sense of thinking, losing attachment, killing negative parts of the ego like greed and jealousy etc.

Insaner and oneye....

Well said. Taking the ego out of someone is like removing the bullshit lying out of politics. The whole system would collapse as would our basic functioning. Eventually, the ego always resurfaces. However, you can control it. I guess you have to kinda know your boundaries there too.

[iAMtheMA!]

yeah, totally, i know what you mean - everything would collapse ...it's kinda like seeing the ground give way and watching it ALL go down (which is exactly what happens within the vicarious video, x crucifies the ego ...and, ironically(???>>>), "becomes christ-like" ...interesting). ...bridle all this indiscretion, LONG ENOUGH TO EDIFY...

[iAMtheMA!]

show me the way to forgive you.

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

Why do you make extra posts to say a few extra words instead of putting it in your last post?

[iAMtheMA!]

why-y-y did tool sperate wings and 10k days?
(i'm sorry)

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

Because they are assholes.
There's nothing to be sorry about.

[miketh74]

yeah, totally, i know what you mean - everything would collapse ...it's kinda like seeing the ground give way and watching it ALL go down (which is exactly what happens within the vicarious video, x crucifies the ego ...and, ironically(???>>>), "becomes christ-like" ...interesting). ...bridle all this indiscretion, LONG ENOUGH TO EDIFY...

.....and Aenema

"I wanna see the ground give way......"

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

I still haven't seen the official video for Vicarious.

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

Send it to me via standard ground delivery.

[Tool_Is_Sick]

UPS

...shhhh it doesnt mean Un-Protected Sex..you asshole! :)

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

I don't get it.

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

I kind of get it.

[Tool_Is_Sick]

Im sorry guys..Im highly upset with myself that my joke wasnt a hit with you two but i guess ill live.

Disposition: UPS is a ground delivery service. Ya know? like FedEx.?(The big brown truck?)

U= Un
P= Protected
S= Sex.

Do you understand? If not ill shut up. ;)

[Tool_Is_Sick]

It would have been funny had it been used in a better context...

Make me look stupid rivek...please i want everyone to laugh at me and call me a dumbass for not using it in the right context.

[Corksil]

The ego can be killed. It can be taken away and never return.

If you disagree, you may have a distorted view of what ego is.

But I digress, though I'm the only one staying remotely on topic.

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

Good job Corksil, winking face for you ;)

And I understood the whole Un-Protected Sex thing, but i'm saying I didn't understand it because it was probably an inside joke that i'm not aware of. We can still be friends right?

[insaner]

The ego can be killed. It can be taken away and never return.

If you disagree, you may have a distorted view of what ego is.

But I digress, though I'm the only one staying remotely on topic.


by the same token, the ego can reincarnate. and this is all speculation, because there is no proof of this thing called an ego.

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

I disagree, my view must be distorted.

[Rolo]

But I digress, though I'm the only one staying remotely on topic.

Hmmmm, looks like some sort of ego-problem (lol)

[Tool_Is_Sick]

I would love to stay here and chit chat but I just wanna say Happy new year to everyone at TDN.

I wont be able to post anything at 12:01 like dispostion can ;) I'll be out and about being a fuckin idiot with alcohol in my system.

UPS wasnt an inside joke...it was something I just thought of randomly. Someone said ground delivery so I thought of UPS.

My ex-girlfriend (WHORE) used to say that shit all the time. Everytime I saw a UPS truck she would scream "UN-PROTECTED SEX!!" So everytime since then I thought of Un-Protected Sex when I saw the Big Brown Truck..."Did I mention that Im insane?" :)

Happy New Year Everyone!!!

[Oneeye]

The ego can be killed. It can be taken away and never return.

If you disagree, you may have a distorted view of what ego is.

But I digress, though I'm the only one staying remotely on topic.

Seriously get off your high horse. Your Holier than Thou attitude is fucking disgusting. After breaking down your disinformation, I offered as well as Insaner and a few others, that no it is not possible to lose the ego permanently.

Rather than being such an ass, how about you explain why you believe that it can be taken away and never return. I certainly disagree and I have a pretty firm grasp on what the ego is. But why not spell it out for us than since we seem to "have a distorted view of what ego is." If you define it in some obscure way it's possible, but to a regular person the ego is not something that can be lost permanently. Without the ego one can not function. The ego is the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.

Without having an ego, one can not function, they will not care about basic survival skills, with no sense of self, there is no sense of danger, no sense of needing food etc. etc. Especially because you're talking about a psychedelic induced "ego-death" in this manner it is almost certainly impossible to claim one can stay in this state permanently. When experiencing this type of loss, one no longer has any sense of self, they lose their identity, they no longer know their name, who they are or that they even exist or ever did exist. Explain to me exactly how a person can function in this society without knowing their name or knowing they are even in existence? How are you going to work or communicate?

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

I completely agree ^

Also to T_I_S, why would you think I could be posting at 12:01... why use me as an example? Dick, guess what, I wasn't on at 12:01 too bad for you you lose haha failure. I'm jk though I love you homes.

[Corksil]

"With repeated use, the ego-death becomes permanent. It slowly slips into daily life, almost imperceivable at first, but soon becomes very obvious to the user."

- Anyone experienced this?

Y'all coulda just said no...

Please keep bashing me, I find it fun to read.

@oneeye - I don't "believe" anything, as far as I knew, it was fact. So when you trip do you lose all of your basic survival skills? Do you forget your name? Do you cease to function? To exist? Become unable to communicate? Need I go on?

Have a look at what wikipedia says about ego. (I'm an asshole so I'm not going to provide a link.) Also peep at the "id" and "super-ego."

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

We find your retarded posts fun to read also

[Oneeye]

Y'all coulda just said no...

Please keep bashing me, I find it fun to read.

@oneeye - I don't "believe" anything, as far as I knew, it was fact. So when you trip do you lose all of your basic survival skills? Do you forget your name? Do you cease to function? To exist? Become unable to communicate? Need I go on?

Have a look at what wikipedia says about ego. (I'm an asshole so I'm not going to provide a link.) Also peep at the "id" and "super-ego."

There is a difference between tripping, and having a psychedelic induced "ego-death" experience. Need I go on?

[Corksil]

Seriously get off your high horse. Your Holier than Thou attitude is fucking disgusting.

who's a high horse?

[iAMtheMA!]

yeah, i dun get it.

...where'd that come from, oneeye?

[Inner_Eulogy]

Im sorry guys..Im highly upset with myself that my joke wasnt a hit with you two but i guess ill live.

Disposition: UPS is a ground delivery service. Ya know? like FedEx.?(The big brown truck?)

U= Un
P= Protected
S= Sex.

Do you understand? If not ill shut up. ;)

I get the acronym, but I don't see the humor behind it. <shrug>

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

Unplanned pregnancy and AIDs isn't funny TIS :(

[Inner_Eulogy]

Unplanned pregnancy and AIDs isn't funny TIS :(

Well, that's not what I meant. I agree with your point but I wasn't frowning at the comment, I just don't see how it was supposed to be funny.

[Tool_Is_Sick]

its one of my lame ass shut the fuck up Tool_is_Sick jokes. Everytime I see a UPS truck I think of it. My exgirlfriend was a whore...what can I say..

EDIT: I never said anything about AIDS dumbass. :)

[miketh74]

who's a high horse?

Obviously you are. Everyone's entitled to their opinion (hence the forum you're in).

On the other hand, I tend to agree that you have to have an ego. If it's killed, you end up drooling on yourself while counting the cracks in the ceiling while sitting on the floor, talking to yourself in your padded, white wall room. I don't care what kind of scientific data or any definition there is that says otherwise.

But that's IMO.

[Oneeye]

yeah, i dun get it.

...where'd that come from, oneeye?

Reread the thread and maybe you'll see it. He's constantly been making snide comments and calling us ignorant while he posts completely inaccurate information.

[miketh74]

The only reason anyone ever says that is to try and make the people bashing them think that it's not getting to them at all, when the truth really is that were it not actually getting to them, they wouldn't have said anything about it at all. It wouldn't have weighed on their mind enough.

That said, you clearly don't like being bashed, but you bring it upon yourself when you make statements with an air of "I'm right, and I feel sorry for you being wrong." Seriously. Shut up, if that's all you have to offer us.

I'll second that.

[Oneeye]

I'm glad it wasn't just me that sees it. And look at his new sig "instigator". I try not to ever seriously mudsling especially over the internet. But it's hard when you act like such an idiot. In a thread started by Corskil under the "H." forum http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=93665&page=2 he makes a comment "yada yada tool is great. i love tool.

Seriously what the fuck dude, you started a thread on a tool fan site and in the same thread act like a douche because people enjoy the song? I suppose I'm just playing your silly game by letting you be Mr. "instigator" but what is the purpose? Does it amuse you? Do you really take yourself seriously? You act like you want people to discuss your topic but add no value to the discussion, overall you're just another internet troll with nothing better to do than be a jackass.

[Inner_Eulogy]

overall you're just another internet troll with nothing better to do than be a jackass.

I guess I'm known for doing the same...oh well, can't win 'em all.

[Inner_Eulogy]

You actually talk about Tool songs in between antagonizing people though.

Depends on my mood I guess

[miketh74]

Depends on my mood I guess

I never would have thought that it depended on your mood.

*cough cough*

[Oneeye]

I guess I'm known for doing the same...oh well, can't win 'em all.

Eh, you can certainly be an asshole to people, but in most cases it's not at all the same as this guy. You also can admit when you're wrong, and not post false information and claim that others are doing so. I can't put my finger on it, but your doucheishness isn't quite the same brand, it smells a bit sweeter, like a mid summers eve.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Eh, you can certainly be an asshole to people, but in most cases it's not at all the same as this guy. You also can admit when you're wrong, and not post false information and claim that others are doing so. I can't put my finger on it, but your doucheishness isn't quite the same brand, it smells a bit sweeter, like a mid summers eve.

LMAO, you put it so elegantly.

[miketh74]

LOL

I prefer a country flower myself.

[Oneeye]

Spoken like a true poet, oneeye.

Aww thank you, I *heart* you too!

[miketh74]

Aww thank you, I *heart* you too!

How sweet........kinda like a country flower.

LOL

[miketh74]

CUNTRY BONER GODDAMNIT

<3 1I

^ LOL ^

Looks like an ice cream cone.

[Tool_Is_Sick]

lol Wow and you people say that I'm the fruity one.

EDIT: I love the new chicken Mcnuggets commerical. haha Chicken McNuggets What! Chicken McNuggets What! Sorry for being so random.

[Inner_Eulogy]

It all makes sense now, everything has become so clear to me. Maynard was referring to having 46 chicken nuggets and all he ever wanted was 2 more to satisfy his hunger.

Damn it all, give the man his fucking nuggets

[miketh74]

what the fuck was this thread supposed to be about, again?

I think it was about Corksil's misinformation, but who cares about that?

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

Corks and having a missing eye I think.

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

It all makes sense now, everything has become so clear to me. Maynard was referring to having 46 chicken nuggets and all he ever wanted was 2 more to satisfy his hunger.

Damn it all, give the man his fucking nuggets
lmfao

[*~*»¤«(Đispositioñ)»¤«*~*]

That's what she said.

[Oneeye]

Corks and having a missing eye I think.

Well I may be missing one eye now, but I was able to see through Corksil's bullshit. So I suppose you're right.

[miketh74]

Maynard can get McNuggets for 25 cents per nugget right now. Somebody tell him for fuck sake!!

[iAMtheMA!]

lmfao
really?

[Inner_Eulogy]

really?

Apprently your rigid ass has an issue with somebody finding humor in my comment. Now go back outside and make sure nobody's jaywalking.

[iAMtheMA!]

oh, okay, no, i'm wrong. totally. chicken nuggets ...that actually was halarious enough to a) laugh one's fuckin' ass off AND b) post about doing so ... c) in internet slang, no less. back to getting outside... "holy shit, there's a whole 'nother world out here!"

[Inner_Eulogy]

oh, okay, no, i'm wrong. totally. chicken nuggets ...that actually was halarious enough to a) laugh one's fuckin' ass off AND b) post about doing so ... c) in internet slang, no less. back to getting outside... "holy shit, there's a whole 'nother world out here!"

A) yeah, it was a lame joke, so fucking what...if I was a fucking comedian, I'd be getting paid for this shit, dumbass

B) So what if somebody found it funny....it's not like we're complaining when your sister laughs at your penis

C) It's about time you realized there was a fucking world outside that pixelated screen you call life.

[iAMtheMA!]

1. lol

2. omg

3. wtf

and i raise you:

:)