Beautiful

[sadi]

I just want to be the first to say that this is an amazingly beautiful song. When MJK sings "And you will come to find we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable" I get goose bumps. Imagine if we could all learn to let the light touch us and let the words spill through.

The idea that in our darkest moments, we are not alone. All we have to do is open ourselves and we will find that energy that keeps us from being lifeless satellites.

This song takes me away to some place entirely serene. And in a world where it is so easy to get caught up in everything else out there and to forget the truly important moments, this is a nice break.

[creativenrg]

Firstly, props to Kabir on a long awaited, and extremely well executed posting section. I think it's elegant, well designed, and quite good lookin'. thank you
I hope everyone appreciates this fact and keeps it real, relevant, respectful, and productive; the point of discussion is not to win, but to learn.
Secondly, Sadi, i completely agree with you. It's tough being a Tool fan today, since so many people are afraid of music with a little aggression and write it off as mindless screaming. This song, in particular, shows the depth of thought and feeling that this band is capable of both musically and lyrically.
I could go on and on about it's relation to my ideas about God, existence, our planet and our purpose upon it, but i'm at work and should at least pretend to be busy... but i did want to say that it's very relieving to finally have proof that I'm not alone in the middle of this society filled with vacant, lifeless satellites.
Beauty is found in all.

[The Border Line]

Originally posted by sadi
I just want to be the first to say that this is an amazingly beautiful song. When MJK sings "And you will come to find we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable" I get goose bumps. Imagine if we could all learn to let the light touch us and let the words spill through.

That part would ALWAYS give me the chills. I find something about the way Maynard sings it in context to the rest of the song to be somewhat sinister almost...

I would have to say that this is by far the most interesting song on the album. I've heard some different theories on what it's about, but I've never really been able to put them into a coherent thought of my own. When I listen to this song, it's usually alot of dark, somewhat creepy yet serene images rather than a general idea, which I think is part of what makes it so interesting to me.

I just love the terminology that Maynard uses, and the above-mentioned quote has to be one of my favorite moments in the entire album. Definitely an under-appreciated song on Lateralus, and definitely one of my favorite Tool songs in general.

[Cracker]

I agree completely. I think this is possibly Tools biggest triumph. Lyrically, its beautiful and inspiring, and musically, it is awesome. I love the way the eastern influence, usually created by Danny, spills through to the rest of the band. I have not been this impressed with a song in a very long time, except for maybe schism, which in some divine and magical way manages to make crazy meters like 13 and 27 beats per bar sound natural and flow well.

[Borris]

I agree with all of you, and consider this to be one of the most beautiful sounding tool songs out there to date. I usually listen to it when I think that I have it bad and the world is just trying to get me down. Anytime I get bummed out I think about the lyrics where he says "you will come to find that we are all one mind", always cheers me up.

Borris

[useful_idiot]

The song to me is very unique. It's probably my favorite on the album. Maynard is a real genius, he uses words to define the most sacred things about life in a new light. There's an obvious connection with his faith in this song, and also he's refering to humanity. That we are all better. "this light is not my own, a million light reflections pass over me, without her we are lifeless satellites driftings."..... and also "before we pine away", bah i hear the way he sings that and i get the goosebumps.

[mike tyson]

I agree about the particular parts in the song giving goose bumps, I get them at that part, the vocals, guitar, bass, and drums are all perfectly meshed throughout the entire song ( like all the others ) but at this moment, ... well I can't explain, but its devistating to me, I love it, its so beautiful. As for the song itself, the title can say something, I think the song is just a reflection on life itself. The beauty of life and all things that we as a human race do, I feel that Maynard is just reflecting on life and as always, teaching us a lesson. Its an incredibly beautiful song. Perfect.

[Severance]

You know...i read these oppinons and i see people with the same interest as me. same ideas and thoughts...but i still feel like im on a different level than everyone here. I am NOT saying i am better...so please dont think this.

This song elevates me to a different world. I can close my eyes and feel like im closer to something divine.

I feel like this is dangerous though, i am attaching myself to Tool too much. I almost treat their music as a religon.

This sucks because now i can't stop doing this. Is this wrong?

[Brad]

Dude Ifeel the EXACT same way as you...believe me, you are NOT alone...

[Severance]

i am glad i am not alone

[LiquidXInsect]

Yeah, this is my favorite song on Lateralus, I think if this song doesn't affect you in some way, you're dead to music or to emotion. It's so perfect and I'd always thought it was good, but when I saw it live, it was so much heavier and intense and emotional for me. It completely rises to it's climax. I never really liked the song "Kashmir" by zeppelin but I'd say that the too can definately be compared, however Reflection blows Kashmir away, lyrically and musically.

[Severance]

no...you don't understand. I dont treat this song religously....i treat TOOL the band religously.

But....this is s hard for me to explain, I am a christian....well i want to be. More because of im afraid of the consequences of not being one...in the end times.

I listen to tool, and don't always agree with some of the things they talk about, but i still listen to Tool and make them a part of my life. A bigger part than my bible.

Im not here to preach and all that crap, im just really messed up in the head right now and sometimes i cry for no reason....just because life is ssooo hard. But i dont know, myabe its just cause im 16

[Severance]

i just need to talk with any band member of tool....and when i say i NEED to, thats what i mean.

I dont want to talk with them because im a fan of what they create....i need to to go on in my life....i feel its my next step....

[frater aaa]

There is but one religion. The religion of man.
Thso one is especially for severance.
Christianity is a b;asphemy in the name of God. I say it, and Tool will say it. The bible is of old terms. Outdated. It is even said in rev. 13 that "the beast was given power over the saints". This aleister crowley. the saint of saints, given to earth in order that it may overcome its transgression. Religion ios personal, and no book or anything else is going to change that. The truth, and god, is everywhere. It is the one omnipotent law that holds the universe togther. It is the will to existence. It is conciousness. You know what god id? The root of the I AM function of the self. You are god, and god is you. If you love god, you unify. And when any things becoming indissolubly one, what is the point of distinctions. It is okay to feel religious towards TOOL instead of the bible. Actually, this is ne step further in your spiritual unfoldment. It is the ability to hear wisdom when you hear it. If you ever stick to one rigid set of strucures, you will never know God, for God works in diversity. "To think for yourself, you must question authority." TOOL bring one closer to god than a bunch of dead words in a book. There is more of god when I walk through a forest then there will ever be in the bible. The true book of god is nature, the one place all truths are eternally recorded.
You are on the right track, but remember every thing is holy to God. The only Sin is Restriction. There fore, the only evil is that which restricts you. there is no mediator between a man and his god, and this makes the church as we know ir obsolete. Do not follow dead patterns, for that is what will lead you down the dark path. For christianity trie to make a god for themselves which is devoid of man, when the only god is man- man made spirtually perfect. We represent god here in existance. That is the weight humanity bears.
So open your eyes, and crucify the ego. Shake of those tattered rags of dogma, and let you spirit free, and rememeber "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
Until next time.
Love is the law, Love under Will.
741

[queenoftears]

I was only hoping I was not the only person who understands this song on another level. Now, I may sound like one of those weird obsessive fans, but the song Reflection has truly changed my life. I'm 22 and in a very awkward part of my life where I cant seem to find definite answers from anyone or anything. I feel often times like time is standing still and I'm not going anywhere but everyone around me is flying past me. Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole. This is by far the most inspiring song I have ever heard. And live....there are no words to describe the sound. Let me just say, the three times I've heard this song played live, I sobbed like a baby. Tears and snot running down my face with the biggest ear-to-ear smile I could have. What a wonderful song, Thanks Tool, you have yet again satisfied me with this one...

[ragna16]

Originally posted by Severance
But....this is s hard for me to explain, I am a christian....well i want to be. More because of im afraid of the consequences of not being one...in the end times.


Long ago I abandoned this. I abandoned Christianity. I decided to find God on my own, and did. The reason I did this seemed to be this, "Why should I trust God only so that I don't go to hell? Why should I believe in something not because I believe in it, but because I'm afraid of what will come if I don't? I decided that not-believing in it truly, and only saying I did was no good at all." I abandoned the religion and sought God in myself and in the world around us, much like Reflection and Lateralis show. It did not take me back to Christianity, it took me to an all loving god, without a heaven or a hell, because one has no power without the other. I found that this life on Earth has no afterlife, and this where you will find heaven, peace, happiness, and love. Death is but a comfortable sleep if you lived well. I also found out that God exists and is seperate from man, who has for the most part left him, but God isn't an entity he is the force of nature, the force of all that is living!

Of course, I assume that this is only my own experience, and I doubt I am done yet.

I think that reflection really confirmed by belief, that to find ones self one has to be in despair, and search through the darkness to find the light that illuminates everything.

[Severance]

frater aaa....im sorry but i dont agree with you.

Im still going to be faithful to the religon of my chosing, and im sorry if you think differently about it.

Think for your self......
this is what i think...and im going to continue to

[thick_shake]

Just reading that everyone gets goosebumps in all the parts that give me gossebumps is giving me goosebumps now!

:-P

[Thimble in sea]

I can't wait to start sounding like a psycho again, so here I go.
I agree with everyone on the meaning of reflection, but once again I'm going to go off on the intelectual evolution tangent. This to me is a song about contemplation and in a way finding one's place. Do what's best for you, think for yourself, that's all personified in this song, but this song puts me in a trancelike state. As said in Lateralus, lose yourself between the sounds and it will all seem like so much. This is a lyrically beautiful song and so perfectly blended with music. I'm sorry, I can't really put my point down, it's hard to vocalize, so all I can say is this:
For some, Tool can be a religion in a way, I lost Christianity a long time ago and I'm not looking back, Tool is my release. They encourage me to be myself and keep going without so many regrets.
Reflection is a beautiful song for all, I think anybody could appreciate it if they allowed themselves to.
Sorry, I hope I didn't waste anyone's time, it's kind of incoherent, but it's still my opinion.

[Pierre-Paul]

I think the first 4 minutes of this song (the long instrumental part) are really important.

Dany and Justin are playing the same pattern over and over again whil Adam on the guitar does long melodies. It's like something hypnotising you.

And then, when they feel they hypnotised you enough and put you in some kind of transe, you hear the voice of Maynard, sounding like it's coming from far away, like the hypnotiser talking to you while you are in your "state". Telling you orders and "manipulating your mind".

Do you remember the old cliché of someone getting hypnotised? You know, when the hypnotiser tells the patient to "act like a chicken", you see the guy imitating a chicken. I'm sure you've all seen this in a TV SHow or a Movie once.

Well, why this wouldn't be the same thing? You have a long time to get hypnotised, then Maynard comes out and says things about "evolving", "crucifing your ego", "find that we are all one mind", like as if he is trying to enlighten our subconscious.

So when I see someone like queenoftears saying this song changed his/her life, well, maybe he/she was more receptive to "hypnosis" than us.

Anyway, hope it didn't drag too much. It's just a weird idea. But maybe this is what the band tried to create.

[Severance]

tangent here on the song meaning....



Hypnotisms definition is really misunderstood by a lot of people...you get hypnotised all the time everyday.

It can be in a day dream, or when your watching a T.V show and people are trying to talk with you but your so into whats going on in the TV that you dont here them.

So all music can be a form of hypnotism...anything that makes you think away from everyday reality....something that carries you off.

Every tool song is like this for me....its exactly to me, what Adam Jones said he wanted the music to be to all the peple that listen to it.....an escapism.....

When you say your in a trance at a tool show or during the listening of a song....your hypnotized by it, and many things can happen in your mind and sub concious mind...

Im not saying that Tool is trying to put fucked up messeges in our head....but im not saying they aren't either.

[paraflux]

Severance, I can't help but feel for you. You want to be in the right when the end times come. I don't blame you. But let me say this... I was raised Christian and lived that life for 20 years. I, too was worried about being in the right when the end times came, and that is exactly why I walked away from Christianity and shook that dust off my feet for good. It disturbs me that you want to go to it for the same reasons I left. I do not want to dissuade you from making a personal choice, but I just want to say if you are truly interested in ascension, you will find many people in the faith who are not. You will find hypocrisy, fear, obedience out of fear and not love, and many sheep who will follow a minister over a cliff if he explains how it is sanctioned by Christ. If you like, you can read my other post in The Grudge section title "Religion-based?" I am no longer a Christian, and it wasn't until after I left the bonds of dogma that I felt free, alive, and without fear of where I will be when the end comes.

[destinysponge]

everytime i hear this song those little wet things they call tears come out of my eyes....

[the count]

ok... i think its about how we as people reflect information... and never think for ourselves, we simply follow what the media tells us. think about it 'her' represents those who are telling us what we hear, ie. the media. 'without her we are lifeless satellites' also 'this light is not my own' for instance, he is just 'reflecting' what he is told, not making his own thoughts and choices.
'you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all thats imagined and all concievable' refers to our capacity to think, but in the sense that we do not utilise the capacity.
criticisms/thoughts on my interpretation?

[scorpioali]

i read an interview with maynard that said something along those lines, that we do not hold or have any real information, that we are just satelites that project it. one can always look at this idea through a religious/spiritual perspective, but being the mad heathen that i am, i choose to look at it from a scientific point of view. the mind is an incredible puzzle and anything is possible. we don't know who or what created us, nor do we truly know the science behind it all. so it is an idea, though there is something bothering me about it, i'm not sure what. i just can't bring myself to agree with it. maybe it's just my typical human ego, unable to let go of the idea that my intelligence may not be my own? hmm...

[Braydon]

i agree with every one but for me the line "the moon tells me you secret,my confident" is the line it just put a whole new spin on the song.and send that shiver.

[Severance]

well if your going to quote a line from the song...get it right. Its "the moon tells me A secret..."

[The Fugue]

But....this is s hard for me to explain, I am a christian....well i want to be.
More because of im afraid of the consequences of not being one...in the end times.

myabe its just cause im 16 [/B][/QUOTE]



It is only natural to search at your age anyway for an
explanation of everything.the basic idea in TOOL is to
think for yourself!!
Dont believe everything you hear or they tell you.They
need a god who is to be feared.Its the best way to manipulate
people,as history has taught us!
What i say is,dont look for god outthere or inside you.
There is no god to be found.There is only life....and what we
make of it.There is no god to frighten you,only an angry priest
trying to cheat you.
Think for yourself,thats the only answer...
At least ,this is what i believe.

[bluephoenix18]

Originally posted by frater aaa
There is but one religion. The religion of man.
Thso one is especially for severance.
Christianity is a b;asphemy in the name of God. I say it, and Tool will say it. The bible is of old terms. Outdated. It is even said in rev. 13 that "the beast was given power over the saints". This aleister crowley. the saint of saints, given to earth in order that it may overcome its transgression. Religion ios personal, and no book or anything else is going to change that. The truth, and god, is everywhere. It is the one omnipotent law that holds the universe togther. It is the will to existence. It is conciousness. You know what god id? The root of the I AM function of the self. You are god, and god is you. If you love god, you unify. And when any things becoming indissolubly one, what is the point of distinctions. It is okay to feel religious towards TOOL instead of the bible. Actually, this is ne step further in your spiritual unfoldment. It is the ability to hear wisdom when you hear it. If you ever stick to one rigid set of strucures, you will never know God, for God works in diversity. "To think for yourself, you must question authority." TOOL bring one closer to god than a bunch of dead words in a book. There is more of god when I walk through a forest then there will ever be in the bible. The true book of god is nature, the one place all truths are eternally recorded.
You are on the right track, but remember every thing is holy to God. The only Sin is Restriction. There fore, the only evil is that which restricts you. there is no mediator between a man and his god, and this makes the church as we know ir obsolete. Do not follow dead patterns, for that is what will lead you down the dark path. For christianity trie to make a god for themselves which is devoid of man, when the only god is man- man made spirtually perfect. We represent god here in existance. That is the weight humanity bears.
So open your eyes, and crucify the ego. Shake of those tattered rags of dogma, and let you spirit free, and rememeber "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
Until next time.
Love is the law, Love under Will.
741



we all must learn this lesson in our own way. in fact not all of us will or can learn this lesson. we are children, yet we can stand on our own. if we seek knowledge and experience. maynard and aleister are nothing more than men...men who caught onto the rift, you can partake in this, ignore it or observe it. you choose your own involvment in life...i choose not to be a lamb(the journey continues)

[ATG]

I think the members of the band would be greatly satisfied with reading parts of this thread. It's really wonderful to see that all these people are connecting in a positive way to TOOL's music.

Reflection has meant a great deal to me in the past year or two. And aside from the spiritual element of the song, it's a wonderful song in the purely aesthetic sense as well. A band that can play things millions times more complicated, stripping itself down to a simple 4/4 groove and a repetitive bassline for the good of the song. This is restraint at its finest, and Maynard's shining moment for both singing and lyrical content.

It's amazing to think that a piece of music this powerful is sold as a product by stores and record companies.

[Think4yourself]

I agree 110%. This song sends chills down my back. There is soo much musicality to it. All the percussion, Guitar, Maynard's singing and Bass it is just all greatly put togather. I cant wait to see what is instore for their next album.

[kette]

I saw 5 Tool shows this fall in the Northeast, and D/R/T (Reflection specifically) was always one of my highlights. The first time I saw them perform it, to be honest, i didn't really recognize it being so caught up in the singles off the album.

The third time though, in Amherst was a religious experience and a life-changing event. When the purple glitter started falling and the lights were swirling over the audience and the Eastern music started, and the Sacred Mirrors started dropping... *sigh*

i too stood in the audience realising that something in me had just snapped, and i cried like a baby. one of those good cleansing cries that don't happen too often. and since that moment, things have been different.

not that I would say one thing in particular led me to the point of snapping, but just the point where my life is at and the experience of being away from home following a band i love and everything related to that particular song...

i think we are a growing crowd -- those who weep during Reflection...

[ArthurDent]

I think that the whole religion/philosophy thing is purely subjective. It is impossible to know the truth. However, you can know the truth for <I>you</I>. Currently, I'm an agnostic. Up until several years ago, I was a "committed Christian," as they say. Fortunately, just as I was at the point where I was starting to question things, I started listening to Tool. I believe that their music gave me some much-needed direction in my decision to become an agnostic. As far as Chrisitanity goes, there are <i>way</i> too many contradictions to believe in it. However, I do respect some of the things that Christ said, although many of them were similar to things said by Buddha (did I spell that right?). Anyway, I think that Chrisitianity does work for some people. For example, my grandfather, who died of cancer several months ago, was a Christian. As his body and mind slowly deteroriated (God, what a horrible way to die; after watching him suffer, I am in favor of euthanasia), his faith kept him going and his belief in heaven kept him from being afraid of death. Chrisitianity, in my opinion, works for the distressed who really need some "order and sanity (Flood)" in their lives, like alcoholics and people with terminal illnesses. Otherwise, Chrisitianity just stifles your thinking and your creativity. For example, after I became an agnostic, my writing (fiction and such) improved greatly. It's weird trying to remember how I thought back when I was a Chrisitian; it's like I was a different person. I like myself better now that I am an agnostic. Oh, to all of you people who claim to be Christians but listen to Tool, you will soon reach a crossroads. Do you want to stay with your traditional religion or emrace the whole "think for yourself; question authority" philosophy? That decision is up to you, but you will have to make it some time. To all you people who are starting to embrace "Toolism" as a religion, just put it in perspective a little bit. The members of Tool are not entirely originial thinkers; they just combine the philosophies of Joseph Campbell, Timothy Leary, Carl Jung, Voltaire, and others. Don't get me wrong; I'm a huge Tool fan. I'm just trying to be semi-objective and, dare I say it, "think for myself."

[ArthurDent]

Now that I'm done with that, I think I'll actually respond to the topic. Reflection is definitely my favorite Tool song and favorite song of all time. It combines the best elements of Tool with the best elements of eastern music and Radiohead (the distortion in Maynard's voice sounds similar to Thom Yorke's voice in "The National Anthem.") I have also found it to be trance-inducing and at the same time emotionally explosive. You start off in a trance-like state, and the song builds to a beautiful climax, then lets you back down to Earth with the strumming at the end. Once, I was sitting in a car on a road trip listening to "Reflection" on my headphones, cranked all the way up. I imagined that I was leaving myself behind in the car. I went through the roof and watched the car, the road, the area, the United States, and the Earth disappear below me as I rapidly rose into space among the stars. "Reflection" is more than just a song; it is an experience. I really like the line "And you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable." I am the editor of my school newspaper, and we were printing a page of band quotes, so I put that one in there. The other corny quotes looked laughable next to it, especially the cheesy Creed quote. (Hey, I had no control over it. Whaddya gonna do?) I don't know if Tool could ever make a worthy followup to "Reflection." If they do it on their next album, I will have a new respect for the members of Tool.

[Andy DV]

Not to mention great music, probably the best damn lyrics I've ever heard. Wow.

[Widow]

Thinking about Reflection and spirituality:

It seems to me that the track is a logical progression from Lateralus. In the former, the narrator realises the value of embracing all their experience as a means of learning and growing. Here the metaphore of the spiral is very appropriate - a spiral is constantly moving outwards, encompassing more and more. Lateralus seems to be suggesting that this is a necessary step for those who would desire spiritual evolution.
In Reflection, the narrator comes to realise that the greatest of insights/illuminations/revelations come not from the self, but rather by opening up the self to the revelation of greater powers and realities. These realies are to big to encompass, but rather emcompass us. This unity could be seen as a kind of heaven or nirvana. It's a song about transcendance.

[IrisoftheShadow]

Originally posted by Severance
i am attaching myself to Tool too much. I almost treat their music as a religon.

This sucks because now i can't stop doing this. Is this wrong?

I know how you feel as well. Not so much on the religion part, but ever since I recently heard the album Undertow, I've been increasing my interest for Tool. My very first Tool album was Lateralus and then I got Aenima. I considered myself a Tool fan, went to two concerts, analyzed a few songs...but after finally listening to Undertow, I began to become completely obsessed with Tool, with Maynard's words, with Adam's riffs, and so on. It was only after listening to such songs as Four Degrees and Prison Sex, I actually began to think more...developing a much more intense and deeper mind set...especially reading much of what people have to say on this opinion page. (need I mention, I read a lot of things that were deep)
Lately, though, I've been getting very obsessed with Tool. I always get this passionate feeling when I listen to them, and when I don't get that feeling, (Perhaps that feeling that people usually believe is a feelings you're going to a much more divine place) I begin to feel worried. I think, "Why aren't I feeling that certain feeling?" "Is it because I'm not stoned?"
I usually get stoned when i listen to Tool. Don't get me wrong though. I don't need weed to get that passionate feeling. It's just, I believe, that in order to feel that passionate feeling, you must strip away any trivialities of life and concentrate solely on the music. Although that is easier said than done. So, it makes sense that it's easier to feel that passionate feeling when you're high because your mind is altered you tend to forget life's trivialities. Hence, why people use drugs to run away from their problems. But I actually don't do that.

[Systolic]

I am a Christian myself, Severance, and I know how you feel. Tool has this effect on me that is indescribable... beyond words... and yet I have this conviction within me that tells me that I shouldn't listen. I know EXACTLY how you feel, for I am in the same boat as you. All I can say is trust yourself and your conscience. Its right... I promise. More right than anything else on Earth could possibly be.

Anyway, about Reflection... This is THE greatest song of all time. Forget Stairway to Heaven, or The Wall, or ANYTHING else... this tops them all...

Being a musician myself, I can feel and see so much in this song... its so awesome... from the slow, but driving 4/4 beat, to the angelic cries of Maynard in this song.... it all just blows me away.

This song is their masterpiece. Its about our strive for divinity and our need for oneness and unity... We can do SO much if we would only let go of our concieted ways (Crucify the ego). We could be so much more than we are, and we could all be happy... and as strange as it may sound... I think that that is another underlying message that Tool tries to convey... Unity brings happiness.

I feel that if we all think for ourselves, yet stay open minded and accept everyone for what they believe, then we would reach a state of utopia... I mean.. I am a Christian, but I respect Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists and... well.. everyone for what they believe... If you find security in what you do, and if it makes you happy, and it makes you want to become more, then it IS for you.
Wow... to think that all of that was over a song...

[preacher]

i am attaching myself to Tool too much. I almost treat their music as a religon.

This sucks because now i can't stop doing this. Is this wrong?


AND

Oh, to all of you people who claim to be Christians but listen to Tool, you will soon reach a crossroads.


Had to add my two cents on this interesting topic that has come up within this thread. Severence, it is exactly that fear within you that binds you to Christianity. Christians (most anyway) tend to hold to their faith out of fear. I was also a christian once, and supposedly if you have excepted Jesus into your life it is supposed to be eternal, even if you deviate from it. At least that is what I gathered from it. I also agree with ArthurDent when he says you will come to a crossroads, just don't be taking any guns to school any time soon ok? That's not a bash, just a little sarcasm.

Anyway, thinking outside of the box is always a positive in my life. I view religion a sort of a mountain that most people climb in their life. There are many different paths to the top however, some are longer, some are shorter, plus there are many chances to stop and smoke a joint or two along the way. But my point is, they all reach the top, whether you're buddhist, christian, hindu, muslin, pagan or whatever. It's about your personal connection with your spiruality that matters. The only thing I think christians may have a problem with is western religious philosophies tend to disagree with everything in the world except what is written within the bible. I have a 7 year old daughter who is home-schooled by her born-again mother and is extremely sheltered. This bothers me much at times, it has actually amplified my feelings against christianity actually, but I know that I"m involved in her life and will eventually get the chance to show her how to be a free spirit and "Think for Herself". Anyway, that is a little off-topic.

Yeah Reflection is definitely on my tops of all time list as well. I don't know if any of you have ever been to Arizona before, but the moon references in this song really remind me of how crisp and clear the skies are here in Zona. The full moon nights expecially. This song brings my mind back to its natural roots, makes me want to take a hike and fill my senses with mother nature, to "Reflect" on our one mind which is really a product of mother nature to begin with.

So to all you christians reading this post, have you ever thought that Maynard, Adam, Justin, and Danny are really Satan's "TOOL's" to disuade you from Christ?
Hmm, interesting thought.

[paraflux]

I would just think that Tool will not care if there is a religion made out of their teachings or not. How many times has the same message been twisted into a grotesque opposite by followers of that message? 2000 years later, christians don't know what the hell Jesus is talking about, and how could we? No one talks like that anymore. There are metaphors today much easier to understand than a story written a long time ago. Even though the story can be deciphered, or at least reconfirm intuition about certain things, there are other, less constricting examples that today, would easier show us the way. Such as Tool, and NIN, and 311, and the later Beastie Boys stuff. There's an Alex Grey painting in the insert of their Ill Communication disc.

So I'm not really answering any questions, just wanted to see if others agree that the guys won't care what anyone thinks about them in the purest sense. Sure they are happy that they are awakening some people, and as men are grateful for the positive responses they get. But ultimately, they have no egos, so whether people become hooked and make a religion out of it or think they are full of shit, it makes little difference.

[preacher]

paraflux, yeah I agree man. I think the guys are quite impressed that we are getting something out of their style however. I think ultimately that's the point.

[Widow]

Hmm . . . . .I think we'd all agree that Tool is suggesting/councilling us to think for ourselves. On the other hand being a Christian is all about accepting the divine authority of Christ over your behavior. It seems to me that these two things aren't really compatible.
Being a 'Toolist' is harder in some ways, because there is no guidance. Christ tells us that we shouldn't steal, shouldn't murder etc, so there's no thinking that needs to be done. But a Toolist has to sit down and work out each and every moral choice for themselves on a case-by-case basis. (It'd be nice to think that they would independantly decide not to murder and steal, but this is by no means a requirement).
I'm not a Christian myself, but I have a few friends who are, and I have a tremendous respect for these individuals, because they've thought about about it and made a conscious choice to accept Jesus. Their belief is based on a genuine love of and trust in Christ, rather than fear of punishment.
One last thought to leave you with: One of these Christian friends owns and enjoys a copy of Aenima (yes, even Eulogy). I offered to lend him a copy of Opiate, but when the time came to give it to him, he wouldn't accept it - because it was a burnt and illegal copy. Christ requires of his followers that they do not step outside the law.
Think for yourself . . . Question authority.

[J1516]

About the christianity thing: SHUT THE FUCK UP! Severance, I'm not sure you're really going to be a christian for much longer. The reason that most people abondon christianity isn't because the priests are bad or anything like that, I think it's because they simply don't believe in it. You don't seem to believe in it since you say it's just out of fear. I am a christian though. I don't live in fear of hell or anything. I don't really think of hell as a place where you go if you don't believe in jesus or anything as much as a place where your soul goes temporarily if you died and were not happy or at peace. And jesus didn't say that you shouldn't step outside the law or not to question. The reason he was assasinated was because he was stepping outside authority and telling people to question what the priests and government officials were telling them. His biggest point was that you should live to seek truth.
But why are we saying this? Why is this even an argument. See the thing is, religion is an OPINION. It's really nothing more. You know why, because morals and ideas about life and spirituality are not facts, they are OPINIONS. There's this show on public access here called The Athiest "Experiance" that I gave a chance (more of a chance than I give most priests) that turned out to be a show where athiest say their ideas are better than christians, then they provoke christians to call so they can laugh at their views to further enforce that their idea is better. Lets not turn this board into that.

So about this song: I think that it's about self discovery through darkness. I think that is shows the best depiction of darkness by any metal band out there, probably because it's so not metal. It's such a trance inducing, ambient song. It takes a look at life, and dives deep into it to find an answer to get out of what the whole song portrayes. I think the songs on the second half of the album are about self discovery (parabol/a, Lateralus, d-r-t).

But then again I think rain is wet, so what do I know :)

[OpiAtE_666]

Wow, this is a great topic. First of all, Fugue:


It is only natural to search at your age anyway for an
explanation of everything.the basic idea in TOOL is to
think for yourself!!
Dont believe everything you hear or they tell you.They
need a god who is to be feared.Its the best way to manipulate
people,as history has taught us!
What i say is,dont look for god outthere or inside you.
There is no god to be found.There is only life....and what we
make of it.There is no god to frighten you,only an angry priest
trying to cheat you.
Think for yourself,thats the only answer...
At least ,this is what i believe.


I agree with everything that was said here. Severence, I was in a similar position as you about two or three years ago. I feel better about my life, I have a happier and more positive outlook on life ever since I got rid of Christianity. I'm not saying you absolutely SHOULD lose faith in your religion, some people prefer to live like that (deaf blind and dumb) but you've already taken the first few steps to a more evolved state of mind. To really truely think for yourself you can't blindly follow athourity figures.

Regarding the song:

I have had similar experiences listening to the song. Its almost like a form of meditation in itself, and I think the band created this mood intentionally. The "triad" as I call D/R/T starts with Disposition. Tools quitest song, and it sort of puts you in a reflective mood, then reflection comes on and for four minutes the opening is like a hypnotic trance, then Maynards voice is heard through this weird fucking effect, and I personally think the lyrics recited here are some of the best lyrics I've ever heard. Overall Reflection is my favorite song of all time. If nothing more it makes you stop and think for a minute.

[ghetto pornstar]

tool is awesome.

take from their mind-blowing work whatever you will. but rest assured, music is music and although it can convey a loud and powerful message, that is all it can do. convery a message. it is up to each and everyone of us to individually comprehend and apply and accept or reject what we will of said message.

i just love the fact that tool acknowledges this fact, and in fact, espouses it.

[Killer Of God]

Originally posted by sadi
I just want to be the first to say that this is an amazingly beautiful song. When MJK sings "And you will come to find we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable" I get goose bumps. Imagine if we could all learn to let the light touch us and let the words spill through.

The idea that in our darkest moments, we are not alone. All we have to do is open ourselves and we will find that energy that keeps us from being lifeless satellites.


I know this is redundent, but i feel that exact same way. And the way that Maynard changes up the pitch of his vocals live is enough to make me break down into tears. I to reciece shivers throughout my whole body when I hear that line, that entire song. It's amazing how just a pitch change can reinfluence you to a song. Maynard does this on H. as well, during the "Coming Over Like A Storm Again" and "Connected To You" parts. It is beautiful.

[Widow]

Originally posted by J1516
But why are we saying this? Why is this even an argument. See the thing is, religion is an OPINION. It's really nothing more. You know why, because morals and ideas about life and spirituality are not facts, they are OPINIONS.

Ahh. . . actually, I think you'll find that being a christian is more than just an opinion. Chritians KNOW that God exists and that he loves them, and etc. etc.
If you reduce religion to an opinion, then you're admitting that your beliefs are worth nothing more than anyone else's opinion. You're lowering the revelation of Christ (Which as a christian you should accept as fact) to the same level as (for example) L. Ron Hubbard's rantings about Theatans and Scientology.

Without wanting to sound to smug, I think you'll find that claiming to be a christian obligates you to accept christianity as it is revealed in the Bible as fact - not opinion. Only us poor miserable atheiests can logically assert that nothing is more than opinion.

A non functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing. . . . . .

[3rd eye]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Severance But....this is s hard for me to explain, I am a christian....well i want to be. More because of im afraid of the consequences of not being one...in the end times.
[B]

OMG FOR FUCKS SAKE BUDDY..........WHAT CONSEQUENCES??????? I PROBABLY HAVE MORE FAITH AND COMPASSION IN GOD THAN WHAT U EVER HAVE, AND I'M NOT EVEN A CHRISTIAN, NOR FOLLOW SPECIFICALLY ANY FORM OF RELIGION. TO SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU, IF YOU REALLY HAD TRUST AND FAITH IN GOD YOU WOULDN'T BE WORRYING ABOUT ANY FUCKING CONSEQUENCES OF NOT BEING A CHRISTIAN........THINK ABOUT IT, IF IT REALLY IS THE SAME GOD EACH RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION PUTS FAITH IN,........

[eknick]

i dont treat tool religiously but their music to me acts in the same way as bibles do to so-called "believer". their music it's just too inspiring and after listening to tool for more than 2 years it gave me a whole new way of thinking and lookin at the world, it's a change, in a positive way. and this is whats magical abt tool, they inspire people in a spiritual way that people really listens to tool are better as a whole compared to the same age frame, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

the first time i heard this song it took me to some place else, some place nice and warm, it's one of those moments that you come across only a few times in life that you really felt comfortness and peace.

there won't be another Tool, not the way that this Tool have inspired me and changed my life.