you better...you better...YOU BETTER LISTEN!

[joblobob]

Hello again,

After seeing how much emphasis Maynard is putting to this particular line during the shows, I find it really reveiling.

YOU BETTER LISTEN!

Then comes a nice guitar section and the end to the measure.

Then a breakdown....with nice Bass effects

and THEN the drums comes in with a mind-blowing reverse Fibonnacci sequence roll:
21, 13, 8, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1

Then the song continues normally...

I believe that there is a reson to all this. Danny incorporates a lot of fibonnacci in his rythms, but never without a puspose.

Now could that be the lost key to make us understand the rosetta stoned?

[Inner_Eulogy]

Hello again,

After seeing how much emphasis Maynard is putting to this particular line during the shows, I find it really reveiling.

YOU BETTER LISTEN!

Then comes a nice guitar section and the end to the measure.

Then a breakdown....with nice Bass effects

and THEN the drums comes in with a mind-blowing reverse Fibonnacci sequence roll:
21, 13, 8, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1

Then the song continues normally...

I believe that there is a reson to all this. Danny incorporates a lot of fibonnacci in his rythms, but never without a puspose.

Now could that be the lost key to make us understand the rosetta stoned?

Um, no. He incorporated the fibonacci sequence in ONE song...that being Lateralus. He does like to get creative with his time signatures however. Now to respond in it's entirety to your post: WHAT?

[joblobob]

Sorry, but there is a Fibonnacci sequence in The grudge, in Lateralus and in Rosetta Stoned. Probably somwhere else aslo, but I can't remember them all.

I won't try to force anyone to think anything, but I'm just pusing the envelope a little farther....

[thezeusanator]

well, I think derives much of their philosophy from bob frissell. the fibonnacci sequence is mentioned in that book Nothing in this book is true....... Also he mentions somehting about prophets and there role in society and evolution, not to mention spaceships!t

But the main job is to inform the people of what is to come if we don't straighten up, so you better listen. THe fibannocci sequence is found throught nature and is linked to these things called fractals. It is basiclly saying that we are all one and we better realize it before our absolute destrucion or the next step in our evolution according to frissell, drunvalo, and thoth. 46/2!

[thezeusanator]

oh fuck it just turned 11:11.

on my clock in my timezone after I posted the first one.

[thezeusanator]

btw prophets don't carry pens.

[Inner_Eulogy]

btw prophets don't carry pens.

Says who?, Edgar Cayce carried a pen.

[SpeiranVaun]

Sorry, but there is a Fibonnacci sequence in The grudge, in Lateralus and in Rosetta Stoned. Probably somwhere else aslo, but I can't remember them all.

I won't try to force anyone to think anything, but I'm just pusing the envelope a little farther....

where in the Grudge does Danny do a fibonacci?

Are you talking about the part in Lateralus where Maynard sings in fibonacci?

[Inner_Eulogy]

where in the Grudge does Danny do a fibonacci?

Are you talking about the part in Lateralus where Maynard sings in fibonacci?

I don't think he knows what he's talking about. The only song written lyrically and in the time signatures that matches the fibonacci sequence is Lateralus. I just didn't feel like arguing about it.

[thezeusanator]

Says who?, Edgar Cayce carried a pen.

Mythically speaking of course. Jesus!

[hemiola]

OP: Nice find, very interesting. I simply read your post and listened where you said to listen and there it was. Whether or not it has any relevence to the song(s) as a whole or if it is simply just Danny challenging himself is a tough call.

Nevermind these insufferrable fucking pricks. I keep rereading post #2 and I still can't believe it. ONE SONG. What an asshole.

[Cheesegreater]

Sorry, but there is a Fibonnacci sequence in The grudge, in Lateralus and in Rosetta Stoned. Probably somwhere else aslo, but I can't remember them all.

I won't try to force anyone to think anything, but I'm just pusing the envelope a little farther....

If you're talking about the beginning drum break-down, there's already been a thread where we've proved there is no fibonacci in the Grudge. It just sounds like there is.

But if you really wanted to push the envelope. It's everywhere, and our whole existence is comprised of fractals. Guess what pattern fractals follow...

[thezeusanator]

o o o me me, they follow um...... the fibannacci sequence! did I get it right?

[amenorakumo]

that "you/she/he better listen" part is awesome... the music, the idea, emotion...

i dunn0 if it's the fib, i can't count that quick. all i know is that .. i love the tension they create ... and how, at around the 2:58 mark, i always get powerful sensations coursing through my body when listening in a certain way ... when i enter the tension they create.
the grudge thing, same thing happened to me a few times on the drum roll... i think that the one in RS is the same as the grudge, but backwards.

anyway i think it's more about feeling then math, i thinkk

[joblobob]

OP: Nice find, very interesting. I simply read your post and listened where you said to listen and there it was. Whether or not it has any relevence to the song(s) as a whole or if it is simply just Danny challenging himself is a tough call.

Nevermind these insufferrable fucking pricks. I keep rereading post #2 and I still can't believe it. ONE SONG. What an asshole.

Thank, YOU.

I absolutely love the fact that from 13 posts, only 10% were really interesting, and it's that 10% that makes me want to always go farther.

Oh and about that fib sequence in other songs. I'm talking about drums here. Not lyrics. Not structure. Drums. If you have ears and if you can count, you will realize that in the grudge, the drum makes 2 or 3 times a gradation with his feets, count:
1 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 8 - 13

IN RS, it adds the 21 and then reversed, but wiht the hands instead of the feets.

And if someone needs more proof then....come on.... listen!

[SpeiranVaun]

Thank, YOU.

I absolutely love the fact that from 13 posts, only 10% were really interesting, and it's that 10% that makes me want to always go farther.

Oh and about that fib sequence in other songs. I'm talking about drums here. Not lyrics. Not structure. Drums. If you have ears and if you can count, you will realize that in the grudge, the drum makes 2 or 3 times a gradation with his feets, count:
1 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 8 - 13

IN RS, it adds the 21 and then reversed, but wiht the hands instead of the feets.

And if someone needs more proof then....come on.... listen!

I think you are off on the fib in The Grudge. If you're talking about the part after "... you scarlet letterman", that is. The drum pattern he is playing there is 1 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 4 - 4 - 6 - 6.

If I'm wrong, please explain.

[joblobob]

You should not count the bass drum beats that he does inbetween all the heavy notes.

You should count the speed at which he plays the bass drum, if you really listen carefuly, you will hear: 1 - 1 - 11 - 111 - 11111 - 11111111 - 1111111111111 Bass drums.

[SpeiranVaun]

You should not count the bass drum beats that he does inbetween all the heavy notes.

You should count the speed at which he plays the bass drum, if you really listen carefuly, you will hear: 1 - 1 - 11 - 111 - 11111 - 11111111 - 1111111111111 Bass drums.

close.. but, the actual beat has one less than what you have here.

[joblobob]

Well if you count that the last cymbal crash includes that 13th beat.....it does make 13, I've played it a lot of times to make sure he was really doing this and he really does.

[thearm]

This is a little off subject guys. I put my post in this thread because it had the most recent posts and it came up when putting in "Rosetta Stoned" in the search field. I hope you will humor me.

Can anyone tell me, or get me a link, to the pattern Danny plays in Rosetta Stoned? I think the time it is played is at 6:00 and after the climax when Maynard is saying "Strapped down, to my bed, feet cold, eyes red, I'm outta, my head, am I alive, am I dead, Sunkist (IMO), Sudafed ect.....? I know he's hitting the snare every time with his left hand and I think double strokes with his right. Thank you gents.

[thearm]

Also, it seems to me after Maynard says "Scarlet Letterman," the drums are 1 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 4 - 4 - 5 - 5. That's how I play it anyway. This makes the most logical sense to me.

Edit: I guess it might be 1 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 4 - 4 - 5 - 6 <-- If you count that last hit.

[Trosstar]

3:01 to 3:11 is what I thought you were talking about.
The drums seem to come from 21 down there...the whole slows to a single point.

[SpeiranVaun]

Edit: I guess it might be 1 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 4 - 4 - 5 - 6 <-- If you count that last hit.


it would seem that would make sense, but it really ends with - 6 - 6.

[miketh74]

Yes....the cymbal crash counts as the 13th bass beat. I can't explain it in the terms you guys are saying, but I think you all got the idea. I'm actually quite proud to say I nailed this the first time I jammed it. Great feeling, especially how bad ass it sounded the first time I heard the album.

:)

[Pure Intension]

guys, ive listened to this probably a good 30 times now. i took the song and put it into audacity and slowed it down from 10 seconds to about 30 seconds so that you can count the drum beats easily. ive listened to it foward and backward and everytime i listen to it, i dont get a fib seq. the first set of beats is 43 and then it goes 18, then 10, then 3, then 2, then 1 and finally 1. im pretty sure there are 78 total beats (this includes the final beat on the cymbal, if u dont count that i guess it would be 77) but either way, you dont really have a fib seq. so i donno, maybe im not lookin at this correctly or ive listened wrong. if i did please let me know, because that would be badass if dc did a reverse fib right here. ao yeah, if you slow it down, its pretty easy to hear the count. let me know if u can tell me otherwise because, that would be awesome

[iAMtheMA!]

Says who?, Edgar Cayce carried a pen.


maybe i'm out of the loop, but was cayce discussed as the possible narrator of rosetta stoned? the sleeping prophet, somniferous almond eyes ...didn't graduate high school ...what else?





anyways, the fib is EVERYWHERE!!! tool pulls beats from the human condition's rhythms (i can only assume), the planetary systems, weather, etc. all of it's connected to the golden ratio. i think it'd be better to think that every song was built around this value, rather than not. it only occurs in one song? not even close.

[miketh74]

maybe i'm out of the loop, but was cayce discussed as the possible narrator of rosetta stoned? the sleeping prophet, somniferous almond eyes ...didn't graduate high school ...what else?





anyways, the fib is EVERYWHERE!!! tool pulls beats from the human condition's rhythms (i can only assume), the planetary systems, weather, etc. all of it's connected to the golden ratio. i think it'd be better to think that every song was built around this value, rather than not. it only occurs in one song? not even close.

Agreed.

[iAMtheMA!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonograph*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_geometry


edit:

Harmonograph (Wooden Books)
by Anthony Ashton

A VISUAL GUIDE TO THE MATHEMATICS OF MUSIC

This book is an introduction to the evolution of simple harmonic theory, from Pythagoras, through Just Tuning to Equal Temperament.

The magical world of musical harmony is introduced with the alchemical systems of Robert Fludd's Divine Monochord and the Pythagorean seven-note systems
Examine the way the modern tuning system produces its own geometrical patterns
Breathtaking Harmonograph drawings show the octave as triangle, the fifth as pentagram and more
Clear diagrams show the elementary principles of harmonics, overtones and the monochord
New visual depiction of Amplitude in harmony
Resonance theory and beautiful Chladni pictures are examined
Complete appendix of Lissajous figures
How to build your own Harmonograph
This beautiful and inspiring book will appeal to musicians, mathematicians, designers and artists. To our knowledge it is the first book of its kind.

http://www.woodenbooks.com/hardbacks.htm
collect 'em all! ;) heh, or not.

jus' turn off your tv, go outside, and observe.




* i think jc can feel the shapes, colors, and tones within the audio.


haha...you know what was fun for me? puscifer's harmonograph techniques may actually help to resonate the throat chakra (i mean, within "drunk with power" - the one with the CHOKE-ing or swallowing sound, jet planes(?), etc, see deftones collaborations, ticks and leeches, pushit) ...i physically(!) get choked up. subtle, yet powerful, audio techniques.

but anyway... (sorry)

[Inner_Eulogy]

guys, ive listened to this probably a good 30 times now. i took the song and put it into audacity and slowed it down from 10 seconds to about 30 seconds so that you can count the drum beats easily. ive listened to it foward and backward and everytime i listen to it, i dont get a fib seq. the first set of beats is 43 and then it goes 18, then 10, then 3, then 2, then 1 and finally 1. im pretty sure there are 78 total beats (this includes the final beat on the cymbal, if u dont count that i guess it would be 77) but either way, you dont really have a fib seq. so i donno, maybe im not lookin at this correctly or ive listened wrong. if i did please let me know, because that would be badass if dc did a reverse fib right here. ao yeah, if you slow it down, its pretty easy to hear the count. let me know if u can tell me otherwise because, that would be awesome

No don't worry about it. Those are just idiots that have this idea that the fibonacci pattern is played in all their songs.

[Inner_Eulogy]

maybe i'm out of the loop, but was cayce discussed as the possible narrator of rosetta stoned? the sleeping prophet, somniferous almond eyes ...didn't graduate high school ...what else?

Um, no...but had you taken the time to read you would know the answer to this.





anyways, the fib is EVERYWHERE!!! tool pulls beats from the human condition's rhythms (i can only assume), the planetary systems, weather, etc. all of it's connected to the golden ratio. i think it'd be better to think that every song was built around this value, rather than not. it only occurs in one song? not even close.

[dancingflame]

yes

[miketh74]

Guess I should've been more precise in what I agreed with. I agree Tool takes lots of time signatures from life in general and tosses them into their style of music. I think it's brilliant. However I'm not fully educated on this fibonacci pattern. I take it that it refers to the two breakdowns in The Grudge and the same time pattern in Rosetta Stoned at the 3:00 mark when he rolls on the tom, except DC slows it down rather than speeds it up. If I'm off, please inform me.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Fibonacci sequence:

1-1-2-3-5-8-13-21-34-55-89... etc.

Starting with 1 and 1, the next term in the sequence is the sum of the two previous terms.

Which is exactly why all of their songs are not in that sequence as these fools seem to think.

[iAMtheMA!]

yeah, it was drawn out to extremes; harmonograph images of soundwaves create specific shapes as defined throughout the most fundamental sacred geometries (i.e. it's all circles) - which are then ordered, fused, nested within and throughout (above and below, or fractals), infinitely, at the cut of the golden section. i tihnk that's where those "slow vibrations" (third eye intro from hicks) emerge and condense. ever wonder how our disharmonic/"disconnect"ed (the outsider) consciousness knew when to stop falling (from grace, unity consciousness, 42&2)? how did consensus reality ...agree? if you haven't yet, check the proportions of ...most anything. phi. another example ...the planets' orbits (music of the spheres), for example, are spaced out by circles and squares, triangles and hexagons ...earth shares a PHI-sided pentagram with venus - which actually creates a most beautiful, cosmic, spiral-graphic image of a lotus-esque flower ...repeated every eight years (see fibonnaci, image found here*: http://www.egoproject.nl/star/venusearth.jpg).

* which seems to have something to do with 2012. a planetary transit (kiss)? EMP?







anyways, yeah ...lateralus, the grudge ...those work the fibonacci beat. but how about 2 against 3 against 5 against 8 against 13 polyrhythms? or am i giving tool too much credit again? what about the movements which might count out 9/8 to 8/8 to 7/8 (987)? lateralus, the grudge ...these are the two we've all agreed upon existing, but there's certainly no reason to doubt that even more exist.

[iAMtheMA!]

the grudge doesn't? i could've sworn...
:pulls out fine tooth comb:


but, you're technically correct with the polyrhythmic phrasings (that would be damn hard, even though danny carey has, like, eight or more seperate inner time clocks mastered) ...but i wasn't necessarily saying that it was within a single block of audio. one against another. how about the tabla rise to climax in "right in two"? building ...as if to grow ...they do THAT sorta thing a lot! ("right in two" being the most dramatic, i think)

i just wouldn't put it past 'em, that's all.

i'm glad there's someone else here knowledgable of polyrhythms and actually gettin' down to the audio with it... if these patterns exist, however, it's much more to find the representational values to it. if you dun know what the fib-seq or phi-ratios mean ...then i think you might be missing a large part of it. (a general statement) still, it really is better to NOT talk about, to abstain from labels. leave it up in the air, and fall to it... without judgment.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I've been listening to Tool for seven years straight now and I can assure you having gone over every bit of the lyrics and the music with a fine tooth comb that Lateralus is the only track that hits up fibonacci stylings.

At least there's ONE other person in here that knows what they're talking about.

[joblobob]

The grudge doesn't.

If you can explain to me how to play a duplet triplet quintuplet octuplet triskadectuplet, then I'll worship you.

It's not possible.

.


Sorry, but it's not because YOU can't play it that it's impossible.

I can play already 3 against 4 against 5 against 10. So creating a polyrhythm with other time frames is perfectly possible.

Now, I'll try and open it in audacity and try to find similar results then "pure intensions"...

[Inner_Eulogy]

Once you get to a certain point of stacked polyrhythms... it's too fast to play physically unless you've got a tempo of, say, 2 beats per minute.

There is no fibonacci beat in the Grudge. Trust me on this. For one, it wouldn't fit the song. Lateralus has that swingy feel of bouncing back and forth, the grudge has a more straightforward yet still irregular time signature (5/8 I think, but I'd have to check my old, old-ass notes).

I just read something yesterday where Danny said it's time signature was "what he called 6.5/8" although that may have been Schism, not The Grudge.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Hey Rivek, you shouldn't use your girlfriend's picture as your avatar dude, it's just not cool.

[joblobob]

Then you're either playing at like 30bpm or you don't actually have a clue what the fuck you're talking about.

...

I don't want to start explaining polyrhythms to everyone...but here's an example, very simple:

play a beat at 40bmp and consider it 4/4
play one (at the same time) at 30 bmp. You are now doing 3 against 4, congratulations.

Now, play your 3 over 4 AND add a 50bmp beat. You get a cool 3 against 4 against 5.

Now, with the hand your playing 50bmp to, alternate your beat on 2 different toms. This way you will divide your 50bmp beat into 2 "separate" beats. Now to come back to "1" you will need 10 beats instead of 5 thus making the "against 10" rhythm.

Now this is a simplified example, I hope you understand (and play drums) because if you do neither, then why are you arguing?

[joblobob]

It was an example. But enough now...

[miketh74]

LOL....

Interesting read though.

[Nikeda-Taylor]

Hm..giggling uncontollably.....xp
Then, really? interesting...but what?

[Inner_Eulogy]

Hm..giggling uncontollably.....xp
Then, really? interesting...but what?

Lemme guess, Uriah's new screen name.

[joblobob]

I'Ll explain this on my blog once and for all this week......