Viginti Tres is actually...

[MORNING_GLORY]

I'm come to believe that this track is supposed to be... whatever you want it to be.

Lets look at what we know about "Viginti Tres".

The entire track consists of incoherent static and noise, with the one ominous voice somewhere in the middle. Theres really no measure or definite rhythm, nothing to compare it with, no obvious references...

...which is the whole point.

23 is the universal number of synchronicities or coincidences (as we all know), and can be correlated to anything you try to reference it to. Somewhere along the way, you'll find something that this track reminds you of, some sort of connection, which is exactly why they named it 23 or "viginti tres".

When you look at a Rorschach ink blot, you see whatever is on your mind, whether its conscious or unconscious. Tools medium is through music, and this track is their audio ink blot. The title just tells you what its purpose is.

The actual sounds have no connection with the number 23 (unless you find one!), they just give us random sounds, we hear what we want to hear, and it all makes sense to us in the same way the number 23 makes sense with the rest of the world. Its there if we see it there, and it doesnt exist to us until we pay attention to it.

So, all in all, this track allows you to reflect on your own mind, and see what you're most interested in, or what you want tool to be interested in, or whatever your intentions are, I guess the deciphering part is up to you.

So there is no puzzle with a definite answer, the puzzle is your own (un)consciousness, deal with it, tool doesnt have buried treasure with signed guitars and used kleenex that youll find by deciphering the code.

Sorry if this has been said before, I'm sure someone has, but I swear I haven't seen it.

Sorry if this is general knowledge, I'm just now figuring it out on my own.

I feel that by posting this I will have defeated the whole purpose of the "song", but the whole puzzle thing has gotten way too many people off track.... its like people are expecting tool to have some amazing answer, and tool is trying to tell us to find the answers on our own.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I'm come to believe that this track is supposed to be... whatever you want it to be.

Lets look at what we know about "Viginti Tres".

The entire track consists of incoherent static and noise, with the one ominous voice somewhere in the middle. Theres really no measure or definite rhythm, nothing to compare it with, no obvious references...

...which is the whole point.

23 is the universal number of synchronicities or coincidences (as we all know), and can be correlated to anything you try to reference it to. Somewhere along the way, you'll find something that this track reminds you of, some sort of connection, which is exactly why they named it 23 or "viginti tres".

When you look at a Rorschach ink blot, you see whatever is on your mind, whether its conscious or unconscious. Tools medium is through music, and this track is their audio ink blot. The title just tells you what its purpose is.

The actual sounds have no connection with the number 23 (unless you find one!), they just give us random sounds, we hear what we want to hear, and it all makes sense to us in the same way the number 23 makes sense with the rest of the world. Its there if we see it there, and it doesnt exist to us until we pay attention to it.

So, all in all, this track allows you to reflect on your own mind, and see what you're most interested in, or what you want tool to be interested in, or whatever your intentions are, I guess the deciphering part is up to you.

So there is no puzzle with a definite answer, the puzzle is your own (un)consciousness, deal with it, tool doesnt have buried treasure with signed guitars and used kleenex that youll find be deciphering the code.

Sorry if this has been said before, I'm sure someone has, but I swear I haven't seen it.

Sorry if this is general knowledge, I'm just now figuring it out on my own.

I feel that by posting this I will have defeated the whole purpose of the "song", but the whole puzzle thing has gotten way too many people off track.... its like people are expecting tool to have some amazing answer, and tool is trying to tell us to find the answers on our own.

Well, I wouldn't go as far as stating this as being "truth", this is more of "your truth" or otherwise opinion. Nonetheless, I am on the fence about it. I like your analogy of the track but I also think there very well COULD be something more about this track that nobody's figured out yet, or at least shared. Either way, the "puzzle" in which you're referring to was in reference to the 4 pictures of each band member, not the track Viginti Tres.

[Cheesegreater]

I like the analogy you gave. This song is a proverbial musical ink blot for people to make their own meanings. I like that, and this interpretation seems to be one of the most realistic ones I've read.

[MORNING_GLORY]

I certainly wouldn't deny the possibility that theres more to Viginti Tres, but as far as combining it with 10,000 Days, it seems far-fetched. As far as the "puzzle" goes, it seems like more people are trying to find secret clues throughout the album rather than listening, all because Blair said something once about a "puzzle".
Personally, I think its just an advertisement for the artwork along with the individual photos, causing people to study it over and over to the end result of having viewed the artwork from every angle, rather than looking at it once and saying "hey, neat 3-d pictures!" and then tossing it aside forever.

[Heterodox]

Personally I think it's a rather un-climatic ending after such a long run of melo songs (Lipan Conjuring -chanting; Lost keys - talking; Rosetta Stoned - more talking; Intension - super melo and not exciting; Right in Two - finally a good song to sing along to; then meaningless noise). Don't get me wrong, I do like the songs mentioned but a more fitting ending is in need here. Something to wake you back up.

[-Subwise-]

God damn, shit the bed!!

[Inner_Eulogy]

I certainly wouldn't deny the possibility that theres more to Viginti Tres, but as far as combining it with 10,000 Days, it seems far-fetched. As far as the "puzzle" goes, it seems like more people are trying to find secret clues throughout the album rather than listening, all because Blair said something once about a "puzzle".
Personally, I think its just an advertisement for the artwork along with the individual photos, causing people to study it over and over to the end result of having viewed the artwork from every angle, rather than looking at it once and saying "hey, neat 3-d pictures!" and then tossing it aside forever.

Well as far as combining the track with other songs thinking the gift to the holy grail or whatever is completely retarded and I might have looked at those band pictures for maybe 15min and shrugged my shoulders. I do thinnk that there might possibly be something hidden in the track within the music or something more to it but, I'm not going to waste days of my life trying to figure it out.

[MORNING_GLORY]

Well, whether or not the audio ink blot idea is right or wrong, give it a shot. Get some headphones, close your eyes, and let your mind wander. Don't focus on anything specific, but don't reject thoughts that come to you. Its kind of interesting, how random noises can evoke certain memories and emotions.

[]v[edusa]

If there actually is any message in this track it was probably designed to act on the mind at a subconscious level.

I totally agree with morning glory.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Well, whether or not the audio ink blot idea is right or wrong, give it a shot. Get some headphones, close your eyes, and let your mind wander. Don't focus on anything specific, but don't reject thoughts that come to you. Its kind of interesting, how random noises can evoke certain memories and emotions.

I never said I didn't do that, I actually wrote a decently large post on here somewhere describing what I got from it. The first time I listened to the full album I was sitting in the dark with headphones on, and right after Right In Two I was mindfucked by Viginti Tres. I was engulfed in this surreal pressure, my heart started beating faster and I felt like I was in an alien ship strapped down to their table (operating table of some sorts) and the aliens are standing over me and you can just hear them breath, alien electrical noises in the background. Finally the one speaks and it sounds like the devil himself, next thing you know I find myself in a field at night feeling confused and frantic and you can hear the spaceship fly off into the distance.

[dirtyepic]

mothafucka if you only knew

[Inner_Eulogy]

mothafucka if you only knew

Thanks for sharing your ever so enlightening input.

[dirtyepic]

np ;)

[dirtyepic]

i saw an interview with bob ludwig?, the guy who mastered 10,000 days and he said the sound at the end came trough a mastering session where a sound was manipulated and was made in about an hour

[Inner_Eulogy]

i saw an interview with bob ludwig?, the guy who mastered 10,000 days and he said the sound at the end came trough a mastering session where a sound was manipulated and was made in about an hour

Well for one, it'd be nice for you to include the interview or at least a link to it, secondly...it's more than obvious that it's a manipulated sound...if you're not going to share the interview the least you could do is say what the fuck the sound was that they manipulated

[dirtyepic]

if you lurk around enough in the right threads it's there, it may be in the 'this album is motherfucking compressed to hell' thread

edit: Here (http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=64182) it's a good read, so read it all mang

[Inner_Eulogy]

if you lurk around enough in the right threads it's there, it may be in the 'this album is motherfucking compressed to hell' thread

edit: Here (http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=64182) it's a good read, so read it all mang

Ok, so I read the first few posts, that conversation just wayyy too technical for my interest about songs wavelengths. I'm just going to rest my case on this one.

[endless_nameless]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_Enigma

"In interviews, Wilson has acknowledged the self-fulfilling nature of the 23 enigma, implying that the real value of the Laws of Fives and Twenty-threes lies in their demonstration of the mind's power to perceive "truth" in nearly anything."

So Viginti Tres is like a blank slate for people to project the contents of their own mind. What is interesting is that this ties in to the whole 2012, end of this world scenario - trying to imagine the next phase of human evolution, the next dimension of consciousness, is a similar activity to interpreting the meaning of Viginti Tres. The ego is left floundering and resorts to wild speculation.

Of course, this is just me fulfilling the purpose of the song by finding my own connections to confer meaning, but it does thematically tie into songs like Pushit, Reflection, Jambi and Right In Two.

It could also illustrate how easy it is for the mind to infer meanings which are not consistent with the artist's original intent, perhaps another oblique warning against over-thinking and over-analysing for Tool's questing fan base.

[Aenima7988]

OH SHIT I FIGURED IT OUT

Viginti Tres is The Number 23!

We've said it a million times, but I never actually made the connection. Not #23, THE MOVIE "The Number 23"! Danny Carey is related to Jim Carrey!! That's the answer to the puzzle!

[This One]

its like people are expecting tool to have some amazing answer, and tool is trying to tell us to find the answers on our own.

Quoted for Truth.

I think that pretty much sums up the song, the album, and the band. While it is impossible for me to know what tool or it's members are really up to. It seems to me that this is the nature of tool.

Quoting Frost:
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference"

It's like there is this path that tool has gone down, and now they want you to come too. They can't tell you what you'll see along the path, they can only tell you where to turn. And even that isn't so easy explain. As listeners, we want to be given the gift of enlightenment, but it's not something that can be given or taken; only found deep within ourselves.

Shed your identity. Embrace yourself lovingly. Passionatly persue truth.

[crincled]

|
|
|
V

[Omega]

this song made me shit brix the first time i heard it.

[Apachana]

which is why the voice says Azis Daath. Divide death.

[Yast3r]

OH SHIT I FIGURED IT OUT

Viginti Tres is The Number 23!

We've said it a million times, but I never actually made the connection. Not #23, THE MOVIE "The Number 23"! Danny Carey is related to Jim Carrey!! That's the answer to the puzzle!

I think this is the closest yet.

[gonzo]

This may be stupid but...
2 divided by 3= .666 to infinity

So, I'd take the devil by the hand, and we'd go have a chat with God.
Thanks, Satan

[theamazingtool]

This may be stupid but...
2 divided by 3= .666 to infinity

So, I'd take the devil by the hand, and we'd go have a chat with God.
Thanks, Satan

now thats just stupid













haha sorry couldnt resist

[gonzo]

lol
no, that's cool
Really, I just wanted to write the words, 'Take the devil by the hand.'

Know what's stupider...
When I hear this song I think, shit, I should rotate the tires on my car.
Then I think, fuck that, I'll just ride my bike down to the record store and buy a few more CD's.
So, you see, this song confuses me.

[theamazingtool]

i think i can speak for everyone when i say, "this song confuses us all"

[Yast3r]

i think i can speak for everyone when i say, "this song confuses us all"

I don't consider it a song and have never listened to it in its entirety. If I want to listen to that I'd put aluminum foil over my ears and put my head near an oscillating fan.

[theamazingtool]

I don't consider it a song and have never listened to it in its entirety. If I want to listen to that I'd put aluminum foil over my ears and put my head near an oscillating fan.

ya, i thought about making an edit, reguarding how i labeled this as a "song". i can say ive listened to it in its entirety, but i think ur tin foil/fan trick sounds like a pretty good comparison

[Strewth]

I think the tin-foil + fan thing would be moar fun.

[Yast3r]

I think the tin-foil + fan thing would be moar fun.

It is. It's very enjoyable.

[gonzo]

I'll try this while watching car racing, to get the feel of being there.
I should probably rub some 10W40 on my pants for the olfactory sensations, too.
Y'know, just to push it.

[gonzo]

It is. It's very enjoyable.

Very well said.
I'm sold.

[Yast3r]

I'll try this while watching car racing, to get the feel of being there.
I should probably rub some 10W40 on my pants for the olfactory sensations, too.
Y'know, just to push it.

Nascar?

[theamazingtool]

I'll try this while watching car racing, to get the feel of being there.
I should probably rub some 10W40 on my pants for the olfactory sensations, too.
Y'know, just to push it.

seems like u often listen to music(TOOL) while watching the tube. you must like to party

[gonzo]

seems like u often listen to music(TOOL) while watching the tube. you must like to party

I set a pretty good pace and stick to it to the finish line.

Yet. I also pride myself in getting up every morning for work.
For instance, last year, not one sick day.

And furthermore, most TV bores me, so I find I enjoy it more by watching the Box with the sound down and the music up loud. Especially sports. But any show will do. I like the flashing images.

[Yast3r]

I set a pretty good pace and stick to it to the finish line.

Yet. I also pride myself in getting up every morning for work.
For instance, last year, not one sick day.

And furthermore, most TV bores me, so I find I enjoy it more by watching the Box with the sound down and the music up loud. Especially sports. But any show will do. I like the flashing images.

You're probably the demographic to blame for inventions like the Lava Lamps and those lights that flicker to the music.

[gonzo]

Nascar?

Most definitely.
The coolest cars and the brightest colors. Colours.

Why do we use the extra u?

[gonzo]

You're probably the demographic to blame for inventions like the Lava Lamps and those lights that flicker to the music.

No. Really. I don't like that trippy stuff, especially.
The flickering images must have a time line, a story, or a plot.
I need the reference point.

[Yast3r]

Most definitely.
The coolest cars and the brightest colors. Colours.

Why do we use the extra u?

Because it's our favourite/favorite thing to do.

[Strewth]

It's because you can't decide if you're Brits or not.


Lol Canada.

[theamazingtool]

You're probably the demographic to blame for inventions like the Lava Lamps and those lights that flicker to the music.

strobe lights fuck with me big time. seriously, i fucking hate them

[gonzo]

It's because you can't decide if you're Brits or not.


Lol Canada.

The Queen is making me waste ink! The energy involved in pressing the extra u. England owes me, bigtime.
*tosses tea on the floor*

[gonzo]

strobe lights fuck with me big time. seriously, i fucking hate them

So concurred.
I feel like smashing them. They trigger something.

Stobe lights seem so aggressive.

[Strewth]

It's America's "English" that's screwed-ish. Keep using your extra U's. It makes your poaste seem classier.

[Yast3r]

Strewth, where exactly is, "Over there"?

[theamazingtool]

So concurred.
I feel like smashing them. They trigger something.

Stobe lights seem so aggressive.

they make me extremely lightheaded. not to mention usually i am drunk when around them, therefore dehydrated, which adds to lightheadedness

[tryptosaur]

Well for one, it'd be nice for you to include the interview or at least a link to it, secondly...it's more than obvious that it's a manipulated sound...if you're not going to share the interview the least you could do is say what the fuck the sound was that they manipulated

Maybe I shouldn't have started a whole new thread.
Haven't been here in a while.
Anyone ever inhale nitrous? And you keep recycling it? In and out the balloon?
To me, the sound is familiar.

[lizbiz]

Not to get back on topic or anything (I know this is an old thread) but I can't believe after all the talking about snakes that nobody mentioned the kundalini snake. After all the talk about stepping through shadows, the chakras, transmutation, etc. it sounds like Maynard is having difficulty dealing with 2 different changes in his life, the birth of his son and the merging of his conscious and unconscious self. You can plainly see the kundalini snake at the end of the parabola video

[CLUTCH1974]

Not to get back on topic or anything (I know this is an old thread) but I can't believe after all the talking about snakes that nobody mentioned the kundalini snake. After all the talk about stepping through shadows, the chakras, transmutation, etc. it sounds like Maynard is having difficulty dealing with 2 different changes in his life, the birth of his son and the merging of his conscious and unconscious self. You can plainly see the kundalini snake at the end of the parabola video

There's a thread started in the Lateralus Album section, 'Kundalini Awakening and Lateralus' that may be pertinent to your post.
http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=116733
Check it out.

[Disarm]

"I'm come to believe that this track is supposed to be... whatever you want it to be."
Way to state the idea that the entire forums is supposed to uphold. Really. That statement applies to all of Tool's songs.
Fail.

[Santa's_Little_Helper]

I'm come to believe that this track is supposed to be... whatever you want it to be.

Lets look at what we know about "Viginti Tres".

The entire track consists of incoherent static and noise, with the one ominous voice somewhere in the middle. Theres really no measure or definite rhythm, nothing to compare it with, no obvious references...

...which is the whole point.

23 is the universal number of synchronicities or coincidences (as we all know), and can be correlated to anything you try to reference it to. Somewhere along the way, you'll find something that this track reminds you of, some sort of connection, which is exactly why they named it 23 or "viginti tres".

When you look at a Rorschach ink blot, you see whatever is on your mind, whether its conscious or unconscious. Tools medium is through music, and this track is their audio ink blot. The title just tells you what its purpose is.

The actual sounds have no connection with the number 23 (unless you find one!), they just give us random sounds, we hear what we want to hear, and it all makes sense to us in the same way the number 23 makes sense with the rest of the world. Its there if we see it there, and it doesnt exist to us until we pay attention to it.

So, all in all, this track allows you to reflect on your own mind, and see what you're most interested in, or what you want tool to be interested in, or whatever your intentions are, I guess the deciphering part is up to you.

So there is no puzzle with a definite answer, the puzzle is your own (un)consciousness, deal with it, tool doesnt have buried treasure with signed guitars and used kleenex that youll find by deciphering the code.

Sorry if this has been said before, I'm sure someone has, but I swear I haven't seen it.

Sorry if this is general knowledge, I'm just now figuring it out on my own.

I feel that by posting this I will have defeated the whole purpose of the "song", but the whole puzzle thing has gotten way too many people off track.... its like people are expecting tool to have some amazing answer, and tool is trying to tell us to find the answers on our own.


I am new to this site, but fully expect Maynard to read this and to get a hold of me because I have a question to ask him personally. Viginti Tres is the song, this forum is my vessel, The System is going to be replaced but it is my question that first needs a response. Maynard we will cross paths in our lives and this is the seed I am planting, whether I hear back from you through this site, or you find me, or you call me on my cell or home phone. This seed I will nurtured because its fruit will be harvested when the fruit is ready! The System Will Be Replaced! I am Santa's Little Helper and you can find me at his side, look for him to appear at places and times not accustomed to his usual presence. We are in Canada, we are going to the USA, We will bring Gifts to those who need it the most right now! Maynard has power and knowledge, I have knowledge, soon I will have power.

[metalruleson]

alrighty then, take it as you will, tool already said it, there is not a code or mystery in all of their songs! are you seriously that fuct up?

[Toxicollar]

Personally I think it's a rather un-climatic ending after such a long run of melo songs (Lipan Conjuring -chanting; Lost keys - talking; Rosetta Stoned - more talking; Intension - super melo and not exciting; Right in Two - finally a good song to sing along to; then meaningless noise).

But, isn't that the way life is? We all aspire to do/be some thing, but whether we achieve these goals or not and despite how magical the journey may have been we all fade away.

[-Subwise-]

I'm come to believe that this track is supposed to be... whatever you want it to be.

Lets look at what we know about "Viginti Tres".

The entire track consists of incoherent static and noise, with the one ominous voice somewhere in the middle. Theres really no measure or definite rhythm, nothing to compare it with, no obvious references...

...which is the whole point.

23 is the universal number of synchronicities or coincidences (as we all know), and can be correlated to anything you try to reference it to. Somewhere along the way, you'll find something that this track reminds you of, some sort of connection, which is exactly why they named it 23 or "viginti tres".

When you look at a Rorschach ink blot, you see whatever is on your mind, whether its conscious or unconscious. Tools medium is through music, and this track is their audio ink blot. The title just tells you what its purpose is.

The actual sounds have no connection with the number 23 (unless you find one!), they just give us random sounds, we hear what we want to hear, and it all makes sense to us in the same way the number 23 makes sense with the rest of the world. Its there if we see it there, and it doesnt exist to us until we pay attention to it.

So, all in all, this track allows you to reflect on your own mind, and see what you're most interested in, or what you want tool to be interested in, or whatever your intentions are, I guess the deciphering part is up to you.

So there is no puzzle with a definite answer, the puzzle is your own (un)consciousness, deal with it, tool doesnt have buried treasure with signed guitars and used kleenex that youll find by deciphering the code.

Sorry if this has been said before, I'm sure someone has, but I swear I haven't seen it.

Sorry if this is general knowledge, I'm just now figuring it out on my own.

I feel that by posting this I will have defeated the whole purpose of the "song", but the whole puzzle thing has gotten way too many people off track.... its like people are expecting tool to have some amazing answer, and tool is trying to tell us to find the answers on our own.


Is it possible that this fits with Rosetta Stoned. That this is the piece that we won't figure out?

Maybe on the next album, when they travel through time.