Do unto others...

[tali]

Now at a glance, there is no evidence that suggests that this song is about anything but anal rape and child molestation except for the fact that it really wouldn't be very typical of Tool to write something so superficial. But is that enough to warrant in-depth analyzation? If this song does have deeper meaning, why is it so obscure? It tells the story of one man identifying and succumbing to his demons. Nothing more; nothing less. Honestly, it just looked like pretty poor writing to me (after all, Keenan is human: this is the same man who wrote APC's "Judith," after all).

But I supposed optimism led me to two conclusions. 1) I refuse to believe that this song is literally autobiographical. If Maynard himself walked into my bedroom right now and said to me, "Kim, 'Prison Sex' is autobiographical. I'm a child molester," I would not believe him. This is simply because I need to feel like Maynard the man and Keenan the artist are separate entities. It just makes me feel better about art in general. 2) Given that "Prison Sex" is not literally autobiographical, I also refuse to believe that anything in the song is literal.

So I delved deeper:
"Do unto others what has been done to you."
"I've come 'round full circle."

Given that beliefs 1 and 2 are true, those two lines summarize the song quite nicely. The rest is just illustration.

My personal interpretation: Person A is sweet and gullible. Person B is a cynical dickface. Person B screws over Person A. Person A becomes a cynical dickface, too, and screws over the sweet, young, gullible Person C.

Sickeningly, all the Person Bs out there have turned "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" into "Do unto others what has been done to me."

One thing that's really got me puzzled is why did they call it "Prison Sex"? "Prison Sex" implies the rape of a prison inmate--your fellow "scum-of-the-earth" type, not the "young and vestile" "lamb and martyr."

Perhaps it was to illistrate that this song is to some degree about an exchange of power. Rape is a method of establishing dominance (albeit a disturbing one) in prison. Becuase it is kind of hard for most of the population to sympythize with an criminal, the victimized inmate becomes instead the sweet, innocent Person B. Feeling emasculated, Person B must sacrifice Person C's (the "lamb and martyr") innocence in order to feel whole again, to feel the power over Person C that Person A took away from him, to rise to Person A's level by sinking to Person A's level.

In other words, in a joint therapy session, Person B might say to Person C, "Being an asshole and cutting you down makes me feel better about myself."

Well, that's one interpretation anyway. I'm sure there are a ton of other valid ones out there. Basically, I think the moral is "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you," but I doubt you'll hear this tune in Sunday School.

So yeah...

Cue Maynard: (walks into my bedroom) You're totally wrong... I just like to rape babies.

[thomasknight]

Maynard the man and the artist are not seperate entities. I don't think there's any need to think that. Maybe it's fair to say they're both part of the same entity, if I understand what your getting at. But isn't being an artist part of who you are? So what do you mean by "Maynard the person"? At the same time, I don't think it's something you really need to think about, it should really be irrelevant who the artist is. If you heard the song but didn't know who it was by, would you feel differently about it?

[]v[edusa]

Yah thats exactly why I think its called prison sex too. I don't think whatever Maynard sang about is a true story. The perspective is not Maynard, but I believe he must relate to the song. The song does speak of truth on how abuse is passed on and why abuse is taking place.

I don't think the moral is "Do onto others as you would have others do unto you". I think its more along the lines of not doing what others have done unto you. I think the message is going out to those who have been abused physically, sexually, or mentally (which happens to be going out to a lot of people), and have received scars from abuse. If you were a child getting abused, you think that you are guilty or at fault and the abuse sticks somewhere in their subconscious minds that it is necessary for this to take place. Since this thought is sticking to the back of their heads they feel the urge to abuse as they get older because they think its supposed to happen this way because it was done onto them.

The whole point is that those who got abused must realize that they are reflecting upon someone else's insecurities, issues, and problems, and that any abuse that was done onto them isn't their fault. Basically, to me the message is stopping the generations of abuse through some sort of self realization.

To be an abuser of an abuser of an abuser just means that you are wearing the same mask that was passed down from the other abusers. The abuser or the to be abuser must learn to take off the mask.

ahh de ja vu

[thomasknight]

There is no moral, or message in the song. It's simply about the subject's experience of abuse, and the cycle that one can be trapped in. All conclusions you have drawn such as "the cycle should be stopped" or "it's not your fault when you got abused", are things you have decided yourself. The only time Tool have given a message is "Think for yourself, question authority", and you have done so.

[tali]

I don't think it's something you really need to think about, it should really be irrelevant who the artist is.


I couldn't agree more. That's really what I meant. I don't really know Maynard, and I really don't care to know Maynard. All I know is who he is as an artist, which is very different from saying that I know who he is as an individual, and I think most if not all of us agree on that point. As far as I'm concerned Maynard the person may as well not even exist: just Maynard the artist. Should "Prison Sex" be autobiographical, and I have certainly heard people (although not people on this board... not yet anyway) claim that it is, Maynard the individual would snap into existence in the worst kind of way. I know that other Tool songs have some amount of autobiographical content, but as long as I can say "I've been there," or "I know people who have been there," or "I feel like I may be there some day," then it's okay. I don't know... I don't expect it to make sense to anyone else....

I don't think it is safe to say that Tool has never had a message besides "Think for yourself." I won't go into other examples, I'll just stick to "Prison Sex." They show it in such a disgusting light, as if to say "This cycling is disgusting" without blatantly saying "Break the cycle," which is a very tired, cliche expression. Instead, they say it much more strongly and more colorfully. "Shit, blood, and cum on my hands" for example is a very strong and disgusting image. And perhaps I should have said, "Do not unto others as has been done to you, but rather as you would have them do unto you," which is really saying the same thing with more words. True, they don't actually say, "Don't do that," they say, "That disgusts me," which is to say, "I think that is wrong," which is to say, "I don't think you should do that." (If you have a problem with that reasoning, please let me know. I'm really not sure I like it, but I can't find any specific flaws in it.)

In reality, I don't think we disagree on anything important. But I felt I needed to clarify some things.

[thomasknight]

Well I still disagree with you because, the shit blod and cum is just a fact. YOU have decided it is disgusting. It disgusts YOU. Obviously I also find the idea of a cycle of abuse as something that needs to be broken, and maybe Tool do say that, but we find this out as we listen to their other songs which deal with getting over these things. Particularly their songs about personal growth on Aenema. Is that a good solution?

[]v[edusa]

Well I still disagree with you because, the shit blod and cum is just a fact. YOU have decided it is disgusting. It disgusts YOU. Obviously I also find the idea of a cycle of abuse as something that needs to be broken, and maybe Tool do say that, but we find this out as we listen to their other songs which deal with getting over these things. Particularly their songs about personal growth on Aenema. Is that a good solution?

Well, songs on Undertow can be seen to be about personal growth as well. But yah, I see what you mean about aenima.

Didn't Maynard say that jimmy is kinda like a sequel to prison sex?

Prison Sex is more or less showing what the problem is and why it is happening. jimmy can be seen about clearing out those scars from any sort of abuse in order to find his inner child (11) and go "home".

The song isn't about maynard, but maynard relates because I think he said that he did get abused. I think the difference is that Maynard caught the problem before it was too late or became the abuser as well. Because of this he has found the strength within himself to "move to heal", like in jimmy.

The song isnt meant to be discusting, its meant to get you to see things from the abusers perspective. Because we are able to see from his perspective, we can see why he started abusing. Does it make sense?

[thomasknight]

Does it make sense?

Yeah, I'm with you. I've never read or heard that Maynard was abused when he was younger, is there any interview showing this? Also, this song doesn't have to be just about sexual abuse. It can be many different things such as any way your parents raise you. They say your parents fuck you up, and then one day you will be a parent and you'll fuck your kids up. We can all relate to that somehow. I think it's such an important thing to try to understand where it happens, and I think this song can cover that somewhat.

[]v[edusa]

Yeah, I'm with you. I've never read or heard that Maynard was abused when he was younger, is there any interview showing this? Also, this song doesn't have to be just about sexual abuse. It can be many different things such as any way your parents raise you. They say your parents fuck you up, and then one day you will be a parent and you'll fuck your kids up. We can all relate to that somehow. I think it's such an important thing to try to understand where it happens, and I think this song can cover that somewhat.

Well, just because of the attitude that he had towards his stepfather, that I have read, it just seems like he had some sort of abuse. Again, it doesn't mean he got sexually abused. Everyone gets some sort of abuse in their life that can stick with them.

I found a really really good interview that defines Tool and Prison Sex. I kinda wish I watched this before I posted in this thread so I could have pasted it in here earlier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8SxHtyL2v0