One Reason Why The "TV sucks" Song Is Important

[MORNING_GLORY]

www.wakingminds.org

I realize that Tool isn't neccessarily political, but most Americans base their opinions on what they're told through the news, and if the news is based on a lie or alternate agenda, our opinion becomes an extension of that lie. (Some guy in one of the videos said it, not me)

Its important to keep ourselves informed, not through the television or mass media devices (radio, newspaper, etc), but rather through independent media and talking to people.

If we knew the truth about most things we might actually change the way we're living, and ultimately, grow individually and then as a society.


Also, it would be beneficial if more people were interested in what our governments are doing, so that we retain the power to decide whether or not its ok. If we become lulled by the pointless TV shows, latest celeb gossip, newest products, and stupid action movies that they provide for us, we lose that control to decide whats best for our nations. We become more concerned about when the new iPhone is coming out, or how long Paris actually sat in jail, or how many product placements you can count in the Transformers movie (I counted about 23).

We are all aware that right now people are dying around the world due to a war, and for a lot of people, instead of dealing with the reality of the situation, we tend to pay more attention to a pseudo-reality; we watch our action movies and our CSI shows in order to feel death and loss, but this way we don't have to get up and do anything about it. We can witness it and feel it, but we're safe from it and we won't have to lift a finger to change it. (Unless of course, a commercial comes on)

I feel these things are important and relate to the song, because I've heard a number of people within and outside these boards question the purpose of this song. Everyone wants a song about spirituality or occult things, but in order to understand the deep things, we need to understand the basic things that are going on around us.

[Kangaroo_hung_me2]

amen.

[slamminsalmon]

this song is very important, and its true, we all at some point do it or have done it.

admit it and change my friends.

[the midas touch]

Is the ultimate Tool fan the guy who lives in the woods and is at peace with nature never actually listening to Tool, never doing business in western society?

Because I feel in order to function in Western, American society, living vicariously through whatever means possible is essential. Obviously, western society has PLENTY of flaws and shortcomings, but it's the way we've been programmed at a young age.
Unless we're Buddhist monks, I feel we'd fall short in Tool's eyes. Not like I care, but you know what I mean...

Isn't listening to this song and saying "amen, Tool" inherently hypocritical? One could even point to 'The Pot' and say that it says this for us. Here we are, enjoying vicariously feeling MJK's sadness towards Judith Marie's death when 4 songs ago after listening to 'Vicarious' we probably told ourselves that "Naw, we're not like the masses. We don't like to watch things die." Who were we to wave our finger?


Another Q that's been on my mind -- kinda off topic, but...: After one "feels the change comsume [them], etc..." (46&2 reference), what's next? So they have this great experience where they feel all this spiritual cleansing.
This man (for the sake of discussion, man) then goes to work the next Monday morning and sits at his desk and...now what?

I don't know if I clearly articulated my point, but...yeah.

[MORNING_GLORY]

I hear what you're saying midas...
Seeing as most of us do live in this passive society, its important to work with the things available to us, despite the bad places they could take us.

Right now, theres plenty we could be doing to help speed up the process, and one beautiful thing that America has going for it is freedom of speech, and the free transfer of information.
The internet, although one of the most vicarious instruments we could use, is incredibly useful. The internet is greatly unregulated, mostly unfiltered, and usually consists of people talking to people. The internet can be used as a strong tool for passing important information to people who would otherwise be clueless. You rarely hear anything on the news or even on the discovery channel similar to the things people speak of on these boards. In that sense, the internet can be useful. In the same light, some people get all their information from the internet, which is only one source and can sometimes be corrupted. Its important to find a balance with your devices.

The trick is to realize what could potentially suck you down, and then use it to your advantage in your search.

Right now there are certain things we should be paying particular attention to, specifically (in my opinion), the government. Only recently have we been learning a lot of the lies and tricks the government has been feeding us.
Mike Ruppert, former head of the CIA, has come out and spilled a lot of information on the bigger scheme the government has been planning.
Ironically (or maybe its not so ironic), its the same old scheme we've heard of. The one world government, fallen under the power of a select few, with a single monetary system and a single bank. Believe it or not, it appears we are moving in that direction.

As people who live in a free world, it is our responsibility to future generations to thwart the powers-that-be from pushing us into a unified nation. Although it does sound good, it would be exploited and abused for personal gain. The best way to live is individually, but at peace with each other. When we start to force other peoples into our way of living, they often reject it. Everyone has to evolve on their own, we can't be mediators. The cosmos dishes out the ebb and flow of karma, and we are fruitless to try to advance it with violence.

Watch videos, talk to people, read and read... but most importantly, decide for yourself what is true. The purer you are, the purer the information you'll find. If you're weird just to be weird, you're gonna look for weird information that reflects you. If you're looking for truth, you will come across it and recognize it.

"but don't take my word for it.... reading rainbooooooow"

[parables in the world]

du du duhn.

[MORNING_GLORY]

Did anyone notice the boost in reality shows after 9/11? how about all the america themed shows... american idol, americas got talent, stuff like that. plenty of things to distract us.

[a perfect toolcifer]

Is it just me, or is the one who is living vicariously "God", watching people die from a distance, not getting involved in things that a loving god could EASILY take away? Just a thought humbly.

[slamminsalmon]

Is it just me, or is the one who is living vicariously "God", watching people die from a distance, not getting involved in things that a loving god could EASILY take away? Just a thought humbly.
yes, but we are all gods

[dissected-detcessid]

Is it just me, or is the one who is living vicariously "God", watching people die from a distance, not getting involved in things that a loving god could EASILY take away? Just a thought humbly.

God is doing something, remember Katrina, or the Tsunami, we're the parasites, not "America" humans, all of us, wicked creatures.

[H A R R Y M E R K I N]

Is the ultimate Tool fan the guy who lives in the woods and is at peace with nature never actually listening to Tool, never doing business in western society?

Because I feel in order to function in Western, American society, living vicariously through whatever means possible is essential. Obviously, western society has PLENTY of flaws and shortcomings, but it's the way we've been programmed at a young age.
Unless we're Buddhist monks, I feel we'd fall short in Tool's eyes. Not like I care, but you know what I mean...

Isn't listening to this song and saying "amen, Tool" inherently hypocritical? One could even point to 'The Pot' and say that it says this for us. Here we are, enjoying vicariously feeling MJK's sadness towards Judith Marie's death when 4 songs ago after listening to 'Vicarious' we probably told ourselves that "Naw, we're not like the masses. We don't like to watch things die." Who were we to wave our finger?


Another Q that's been on my mind -- kinda off topic, but...: After one "feels the change comsume [them], etc..." (46&2 reference), what's next? So they have this great experience where they feel all this spiritual cleansing.
This man (for the sake of discussion, man) then goes to work the next Monday morning and sits at his desk and...now what?

I don't know if I clearly articulated my point, but...yeah.

I don't post here often, if at all but....this one actually got me thinking. I think the overall idea of the song in question is that you continue to grow, and work through the muck. Being a visual artist I can understand this concept (and i know by saying that I sound like pretentious moron), because you should never feel totally satisfied with the work you have just done. . .in that there is always more room to grow. Both as a human and in whatever your chosen profession or passion is. An extension of that would be to say that it's important to remain self critical.I think this thread is really good, because it is good to see that people are trying to be more aware of their surroundings, and be conscious human beings. I don't think this means that you can't and wont just go to the office the next day and go to the supermarket, but I think there are little changes that can go on to make you more conscious of the choices
you make. So. . .I will end it with total shameless self promotion, if you want to see some 'art'. http://www.myspace.com/shaneart

[the midas touch]

yes, but we are all gods

Thanks, Anton Lavey. Heh. (Laveyan Satanism reference)

[MORNING_GLORY]

I think people confuse the idea of living vicariously with the idea of just living through understanding. You can read a horror novel or watch sports on TV, but that doesn't neccessarily mean you're living vicariously through those people. Its impossible to do all the things we witness, and often very dangerous. We have to witness certain things to understand them, and like the sayings goes "look before you leap".

This song is actually about shutting yourself off from the world in a different way, and never coming to terms with the good and the bad. That doesnt mean you have to shut yourself off and go live in the woods to be true to the experience (although, just about every great visionary has done that prior to a revelation). Just acknowledge the way things are, don't pretend like they'll never get you and your safe in your sofa. Once in awhile, we do have to stand up and do something.

[Cheesegreater]

I think people confuse the idea of living vicariously with the idea of just living through understanding. You can read a horror novel or watch sports on TV, but that doesn't neccessarily mean you're living vicariously through those people. Its impossible to do all the things we witness, and often very dangerous. We have to witness certain things to understand them, and like the sayings goes "look before you leap".

This song is actually about shutting yourself off from the world in a different way, and never coming to terms with the good and the bad. That doesnt mean you have to shut yourself off and go live in the woods to be true to the experience (although, just about every great visionary has done that prior to a revelation). Just acknowledge the way things are, don't pretend like they'll never get you and your safe in your sofa. Once in awhile, we do have to stand up and do something.

That was the post I was waiting for. People like to argue things for argument's sake much of the time. One could say if you witness ANYTHING you're living vicariously. That's just absurd. That's like saying, "Look at that guy who just died in that car accident! I see you're rubber-necking! You're living vicariously! You should go ahead and die so you know how it feels!"

I mean that's just arguing for argument's sake. I hope you people don't have to have your little hands held when I explain this.

Here goes. If you feel a certain way about something and this dude finally comes along saying all these things you've thought before, you're doing nothing if you aren't proactive. If you see this politician on TV and say, "Yeah, that guy's totally right! At least there's somebody out there trying to make things better!" then go back to eating your cheet-ohs and playing video games, you're living vicariously buddy.

This song is simply pointing out that nothing makes you understand a circumstance like actually experiencing it first hand. When you cry at the end of the movie because the main star's mother died, that's a real emotion but nothing like going through that pain yourself. This song is warning people to not let cheap movie thrills replace real emotions. If you do, you'll find that actually going through those tumultuous events is much harder that any movie could ever portray it. Watching an intense war movie will not conjure up the same emotions as actually going through a real tour in the army. Watching a movie where a child is abused his whole life is nothing like being abused through your childhood for real. Watching COPS is nothing like getting caught with a little coke and having to serve five years behind bars. Watching Hostel is nothing like being tortured as a POW.

Yet, we watch all these shows and see these horrible things happen to people. At the end of the show, or the news, or what have you, you're left with that selfish thought, "Much better them, than myself." Well, the things people miss when seeing all these things happen vicariously, what people forget is terrible things DO happen. And guess what buddy? You're not impervious to such things happening to you. That's the reality I think is trying to be conveyed in this song.

[Ghostwriter]

This song is simply pointing out that nothing makes you understand a circumstance like actually experiencing it first hand. When you cry at the end of the movie because the main star's mother died, that's a real emotion but nothing like going through that pain yourself. This song is warning people to not let cheap movie thrills replace real emotions. If you do, you'll find that actually going through those tumultuous events is much harder that any movie could ever portray it. Watching an intense war movie will not conjure up the same emotions as actually going through a real tour in the army. Watching a movie where a child is abused his whole life is nothing like being abused through your childhood for real. Watching COPS is nothing like getting caught with a little coke and having to serve five years behind bars. Watching Hostel is nothing like being tortured as a POW.

Yet, we watch all these shows and see these horrible things happen to people. At the end of the show, or the news, or what have you, you're left with that selfish thought, "Much better them, than myself." Well, the things people miss when seeing all these things happen vicariously, what people forget is terrible things DO happen. And guess what buddy? You're not impervious to such things happening to you. That's the reality I think is trying to be conveyed in this song.

There is this term in psychology called vicarious arousal (thank you Wikipedia) which: "occurs when someone witnessing a strong display of emotion begins to feel a similar emotion themselves." For example, someone may watch the news and hear about a horrible story of tragedy in someones life. The viewer is affected by this (by the way the media portrays it) and they think they truly understand how the person feels although they have no idea. Someone may watch an Animal Planet special on tigers and feel as if they understand tigers and know alot about them. This connects with the whole hypocrite them in The Pot. I think "Living Vicariously" is being affected by these programs in mass media and thinking you understand when you have no idea about the bigger picture.

[MORNING_GLORY]

Nicely put Cheesegreater, I learned something from all this, and I feel like I understand the song a little better.
Observing life isn't always being vicarious, but there comes a point where you're no longer observing to understand, you're replacing emotions that should be experienced. I know I've been at that point, where I would watch a movie and feel as if I understood what it was like to be a ninja, or underwater, or in love, etc. (it was good pot)
In reality, they are only dramatized perceptions of real experiences (and many times imagined ones), and I'd rather take part in them in person, rather than via television.

However, its ok perfectly okay for a movie or show to inspire you to do something (as Cheesegreater said about being proactive), because I know I've seen movies that inspired me to inform myself and other people, (V for Vendetta can bring out some emotions in me, especially at the end with all the people wearing the masks), and eventually lead me to a certain campaign trail that feels right to me. So, thanks to all for helping me talk it out.

[Choke]

In the end all forms of media and entertainment are tools of enslaving the mind from further growth. Preoccupation with devices that in the end leave you with nothing to gain and everything to lose. Television is so addicting, it takes you away from reality a reality that is in serious need of correction, and puts you in a fantasy world where everything you see and perceive is a a comfortable falsehood. So society and government slowly tightens its grips over you and everyone else until by the time everyone does wake up and sees how fucked up the world has become its too late to stop it because technology and corporations will have enslaved us all into one giant machine.

[MORNING_GLORY]

"Theres something kinda sad about the way that things have come to be"

It didn't have to be this way, TV didn't need to be our enemy... it should just be used as light entertainment. But people build their lives around the tube... they plan when they should be home to catch the newest lamest show about people forgetting lyrics...they base their opinions and gather facts from the TV, and its just become a warped 1984 scenario... people need to wake up... pay attention to people not the tv.

[Lemming]

There is this term in psychology called vicarious arousal (thank you Wikipedia) which: "occurs when someone witnessing a strong display of emotion begins to feel a similar emotion themselves." For example, someone may watch the news and hear about a horrible story of tragedy in someones life. The viewer is affected by this (by the way the media portrays it) and they think they truly understand how the person feels although they have no idea. Someone may watch an Animal Planet special on tigers and feel as if they understand tigers and know alot about them. This connects with the whole hypocrite them in The Pot. I think "Living Vicariously" is being affected by these programs in mass media and thinking you understand when you have no idea about the bigger picture.

I guess this is how we feel about Tool, huh? And their ideas sometimes become our own, if not most of the time.

[Eulogy33]

their music/ideas flow into us, so....of course.

[Luosdasa]

the 'tv sucks' song is necessary because video killed the radio star, and we must all hate him.

[mishra734]

omg i just read through the right in two lyrics..... at the end it seems the angels are watching out of curiosity they live(not technically) vicariously through humans who have the choices they dont ..... the irony?

[MORNING_GLORY]

hmm... that is a possibility... damned angels need to get their own lives.

[M00N]

First off, this was so far the most enjoyable topic I've read. I'm glad that even though we see what sometimes seems like too much negative with the world around us, we do know that not everyone is this way. Some hope...

I named my band "Syntheticism". its a word i came up with myself, that deals with almost exactly what we're talking about. To me the word means discarding yourself from the human perception. Getting away as far as possible, so in the end you can always depend on yourself. Compare the world "we" live in, to Everything else in our reality... It was funny, I was watching TV late one night, and i was astonished by the simple idea of a commercial. The psychological aspect... the tactics used to get you to remember stuff. its flat out ridiculous. All the shows on TV are trash. Its. Just. Temporary. Entertainment. What life do you lead, by leading life vicariously...?

My band mate nick wrote a song called "Patterns", He was watching a Lypozine commercial at 3:00am when he wrote it. In the commercial it said "You can Loose the weight, and still eat That cheeseburger!!" He wrote that song, and its exactly what we're talking about... if you want take a listen, the link is in my signature (lol not trying to self promote) :P

Theres a lot of shit in modern times, psychological and subliminal shit. I think (me beng 18) i was the first generation to be truly exposed full force... maybe thats why i resent it all so much...
no... its more than that...

[parables in the world]

amen brotha

[MORNING_GLORY]

I'd have to agree with you, Moon. The world (or maybe just America?) has become nothing more than a market place.

When I read about spirituality, enlightenment, truth, etc, I sometimes question whether or not these things are even real. How can one see the soul? By what means do you measure good or bad karma? How can we be certain a higher power exists?

The irony is that the most important questions cannot be answered with definite answers. There is no formula to determine the quality of one's life. There is no way to determine whether or not your actions and thoughts are justifiable, which is why it's easy to forget whats really important. We see everyone around us dwelling in a temporary almost hedonistic state of mind.

I take comfort in a band called Tool because they've shown me that despite the overwhelming amout of advertisements, TV shows, clothing brands, cigarettes, video games, toys, knick-knacks and doo-dads, life is about somethings more than that. Life isn't about satisfying those primitive desires... its not about always assuming you know better... its not about having a high paying job... its not about having kids and telling them how to live their lives... none of that is important.

It is important, however, to take notice to all the things missing from this picture. As Alex Grey says in the World Spirit DVD, "America sold it's soul for a little capitol."

The more energy we spend worrying about our jobs, cars, houses, XBOXs, clothes, and all the extra bullshit, the more we lose our spirituality. The more we lose our spirituality, the further our world goes down the drain.

This is why its no surprise our world is a deranged place. We've lost that balance, the equilibrium that holds it all together. Its ripping apart at the seams, it seems.

Someone suggested (I want to say John Jenkins), that the Mayan calendar not only charts the motions of celestial bodies, but also the rise and fall of civilization. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). Last time around it was Atlantis, and no matter what version of the myth you've heard, they all end in defeat because the Atlanteans abused their power and technology. They lost touch with what had made them great in the first place.

We are doing the same thing today, and 2012 growing closer and closer. I know skeptics will disagree, but it does seem like our situation is coming to a "head". I realize that every so often society freaks out because they fear the "end" is near... but this is no Y2K, something about it feels different. I certainly don't think the world will implode or get hit by a meteor, but I do think its time for the next stage in evolution. I think we're at the point where we can learn from our mistakes, however, its not something that happens automatically. Its something that takes conscious effort. If everyone in the world learns from their mistakes and improves upon them, whose to say thats not a form of evolution?