Crucify the Ego = Suicide?

[TJBundy]

"crucify the ego before it's far too late
and leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical"

it seems to me that the only way to TRULY leave behind this place is to commit suicide, the only way to truly crucify ego is to kill your body. our ego is our body, without it we are just mind/spirit. the body is the only part of us that can experience pain...spirit does not.

"and you will come to find that we are all one mind"

i think that when you die you learn for the first time the true meaning of your life and the true interconnectedness/oneness of the universe.

"capable of all that's imagined and all conceiveable
let the light touch you
let the words spill through
let them pass right through
bringing out our hope and reason"

i think death is the only way out of the negativity and cynicism that we all experience every day.

tell me what you think :)

[i live in the toolshed]

I dont think 'crucify the ego' means to kill youself, but to get over yourself. I think the ego refers to selfishness, materialism, etc. Once you are free of that, you can live without those negative feelings and actions.


Edit...Let me add some reason to my thought.


Take the couple lines above and below 'crucify the ego'


“And as I pull my head out I am without one doubt
Don't wanna be here feeding my narcissism.
I must crucify the ego before it's far too late
I pray the light lifts me out
Before I pine away.”


He talks about narcissism, which is to love ones self. After that he says he does not want to pine away, which is to kind of waste away in greif. This is what he would do if he was still in the selfish/materialistic/ego-centric state described in the beginning of the song.


PS. Please dont kill youself at the advice of tool. :)

[Tantobourne]

PS. Please dont kill youself at the advice of tool. :)

*lol* like Keenan told someone after they pointed out one of their Tool inspired tattoos, "I didn't tell you to do that."

[i live in the toolshed]

You don't have a tatoo because it is the in thing huh? Well I think the "in-thing" to do is, to not like the the "in-thing". The trend is to be anti-trend. Fuck that. Be yourself.


Well, if you do the in-thing then you follow a trend, but not doing the in-thing is a trend too. So ya you can be youself, but that is becoming trendy too. The only thing you can do is be nothing, sit like a vegetable and rot away. That is, you can do that until that becomes the new trend.

[learist]

A few qutes from the tibetan book of the dead:

"You must be ready to accept the possibility that there is a limitless range of awareness for which we now have no words; that awareness can expand beyond range of your ego, your self, your familiar identity, beyond everything you have learned, beyond your notions of space and time, beyond the differences which usually separate people from each other and from the world around them."

"You must try to maintain faith and trust in the potentiality of your own brain and the billion-year-old life process. With your ego left behind you, the brain can't go wrong."

"complete transcendence - beyond words, beyond space-time, beyond self. There are no visions, no sense of self, no thoughts. There are only pure awareness and ecstatic freedom from all game (and biological) involvements. ["Games" are behavioral sequences defined by roles, rules, rituals, goals, strategies, values, language, characteristic space-time locations and characteristic patterns of movement. Any behavior not having these nine features is non-game: this includes physiological reflexes, spontaneous play, and transcendent awareness.]"

" If the participant can be made to see and to grasp the
idea of the empty mind as soon as the guide reveals it - that is to
say, if he has the power to die consciously - and, at the supreme
moment of quitting the ego, can recognize the ecstasy which will dawn upon him then, and become one with it, all game bonds of illusion are broken asunder immediately: the dreamer is awakened into reality simultaneously with the mighty achievement of recognition."


We all must kill or ego to see the reality that is right in front of our eyes.

[Tantobourne]

We all must kill or ego to see the reality that is right in front of our eyes.

I'd rather say that the ego is not something that we must kill in ourselves. I'd instead say that it is something that we must grow from and incorporate.

I look at it like the watched pot that never boils. The more you concentrate on it the more solid it becomes. It doesn't go away, it intensifies. Instead of pushing it away and eradicating it we should look into it, understand it, and accept it. Think of it as one of your legs. We rely on it to propel us forward. If we chop it off we hobble ourselves and ultimately make the journey forward that much harder.

The quotes from the book of the dead don't directly say the ego must be eradicated. The words used such as 'transcend' and 'beyond' may indicate 'leaving' something behind but might just as well allude to the absorption of a lesser by a greater force which plays off the 'holistic' concept.

In random readings the reference of the 'void' or 'emptiness' isn't necessarily an absence of everything. It seems to entail more of the permeance of everything but in a formless state. That, too, might be considered a void.

So the incorporation of the ego is a process to the tibetan book of the dead's 'empty' state of mind and being. It is a drop of water absorbed by the sea of invidiual, spiritual, & human evolution. Without a firm grasp on the ego it generates a lot of 'static' interference in our lives. As we learn more about it, we are better able to fine tune the dial. If we try to ignore it the noise eventually begins to bug the fuck out of us.

That's how the lyrics strike me, at least....

[learist]

I didn't mean that we should try to become permenantly ego-less. I was only suggesting that the best way to a more peacful and care free life is to learn to push you ego away at times and just take life by the hand and say,"where to?"

[Tantobourne]

Don't mind me. I wasn't intentionally dissecting your post...just taking the ball and running off the field with it ; )

[learist]

First of all I don't mind having my comments added to or criticized. Isn't that the purpose of this whole messege board system.

But, on to the point. The book of the dead describes who to attain the level of non game awareness. That is when you realize that you are one with everything.
"So crucify the ego, before it's far too late to leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical, and you will come to find that we are all one mind capable of all that's imagined and conceivable."

and also:
"and in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping."
Some people are afraid to lose their ego and embrace chaos.

[Tantobourne]

I do agree. Letting go of a security blanket and stepping bare into the unknown is not a walk in the palk. It's a daily struggle that I often feel that I'm losing. I still haven't picked up the book but *looks at his stack of unread books* I'll get around to it eventually.

[sircorn]

You don't have a tatoo because it is the in thing huh? Well I think the "in-thing" to do is, to not like the the "in-thing". The trend is to be anti-trend. Fuck that. Be yourself.


Well, if you do the in-thing then you follow a trend, but not doing the in-thing is a trend too. So ya you can be youself, but that is becoming trendy too. The only thing you can do is be nothing, sit like a vegetable and rot away. That is, you can do that until that becomes the new trend.

We've all sold out already anyway... what are your points? lol

[sircorn]

I'd rather say that the ego is not something that we must kill in ourselves. I'd instead say that it is something that we must grow from and incorporate.

No i have to disagree. Just imagine life without any ego to hold you back... You would be free to meander about life thinking freely and contemplating whatever you wish, without fear of being rejected, or shit on... because you wouldnt care. You could apreciate the beauty of the world, and the fact that you are a part of it. Im not doing justice at all to what it would be like to move through life without an ego, but just think about it for a while.

Now that all just fine and dandy, but saying "crucify the ego" is kind of a "tough" task to say the least. I would say almost highly unlikely. Have you done it? I certainly haven't otherwize I wouldn't be posting here lol. So basically, its all about gaining control over yourself/your emotions. You don't want to "numb" them, but control them. When someone calls you a fuckbag, and you punch them, its not controling your emotions lol. If you had no ego, youd just laugh at them and walk away - and thats the beauty of it, no pride, no hate, so who cares!

Now if someone called your girlfriend (or boyfriend) a fuckbag, I would completely understand you beating the crap out of someone, Hell id even join in hahahah because its really got nothing to do with your own ego.... thats more about caring about someone.

I do agree. Letting go of a security blanket and stepping bare into the unknown is not a walk in the palk. It's a daily struggle that I often feel that I'm losing. I still haven't picked up the book but *looks at his stack of unread books* I'll get around to it eventually.

yes i gotta agree with you there man, everyday i feel as though what I have done in the past is controling me

[learist]

yes i gotta agree with you there man, everyday i feel as though what I have done in the past is controling me

I'm glad you see what I was trying to say. You did a good job at elaborating. Thank you.