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analognostic
07-17-2003, 05:37 PM
I've always thought that what I've always called the "dinging" noise at the beginning of Eulogy is intended to symbolize the sound of nails being driven by a hammer, presumably into a cross, as crosses and crucifixion are a prominent theme in the song.

I debated this with some friends once, and only one argument was posed agianst my theory (by a former carpenter). It was: that the intro is a sequence of noises, repeated over and over. (Which we already knew). And that the tempo in the beginning could be what I proposed. But, he further contended, that a person couldn't strike a nail at the pace that would be required to make the rapid "dinging" noise at the end of the sequence. We listened to the song and he seemed to be right.

Another person, though, observed: The song is, at the very least, explicitly about someone being crucified. And, If anyone was being nailed to a cross, or tree, or whatever it was, and that person was a martyr, there would be many people present assisting. He continued that if three or more people were nailing at the same time (i.e. one at the feet and one at each hand), the quick sequence could be the result of those three striking each of their nails at almost the same time.

I have posed this "nail" theory to a few other people, and haven't heard any one suggest that the noise might be something else. I don't think many people have made this "nail" observation, and many might not care. But in a world of TOOL debates, I think this is one that could be conceded as a correct assumption.

Any Thoughts?????????

Any Thoughts????????

paraflux
07-18-2003, 05:45 AM
Sounds good to me. Since Eulogy is actually the beginning of the journey (with stinkfist being the introduction) it makes sense that they would have someone being killed at the very beginning to symbolize... whatever you want that to mean. To me they just discuss death and following blindly first since these are generally hard topics for men to discuss, although as the record progresses it becomes clear that there is so much more beyond death.

reedc33
07-19-2003, 08:29 PM
[QUOTE=analognostic]
I debated this with some friends once, and only one argument was posed agianst my theory (by a former carpenter). It was: that the intro is a sequence of noises, repeated over and over. (Which we already knew). And that the tempo in the beginning could be what I proposed. But, he further contended, that a person couldn't strike a nail at the pace that would be required to make the rapid "dinging" noise at the end of the sequence. We listened to the song and he seemed to be right. QUOTE]

I don't think the tempo is important. It's a set up, minimalist style. The sound quality reminds you of nails, and that is what is important, not that one couldn't hammer that tempo or that rhythm. I like the thought and I have to admit that I never really thought of it. It makes alot of sense. Perhaps it is just the building of the cross, though, and not necessarily someone being nailed to a cross.

paraflux
07-21-2003, 07:57 AM
Therefore it could be the building of a platform, or stage, or pedestal for the speaker to stand on...

nickknocker
07-21-2003, 01:31 PM
aside from the great ideas about what this song is about, I'm almost positive that the first, quicker "pinging" is the guitar. Adam has a Les Paul which has a raised bridge. When you pick the g string between the bridge and body of the guitar, it makes that sound. The second, slower ping is a ride cymbal (or the bell of another cymbal)
Besides that, this is a great topic and has some fresh new ideas...great work!

reedc33
07-21-2003, 07:44 PM
I don't think it's jesus has he tought about compassion for others.. I think it's probably a extreme "God-fearing" christian conservative...


I still get this image of Hitler swaying the mob, with the crucifixion as purely symbolic. I recall reading a Darwinistic history book that mentions religion as a way to justify war. My mind is sprawling a bit here...The Goring quote about how peoples don't want war but are convinced by the Man that there are being attacked...pacifists are not patriotic and so on...(great quote that I could dig up if anyone is interested...).

I also remember learning that people weren't actually nailed to the cross, but that they died just by the force of gravity on their organs(something to that effect...). Anyways, now that Paraflux mentions it, I could see it as the building of a quick set-up stage, like the ones they have mall fashion shows and 'Mall Rats' style games shows on. Again, an example of how far you(maybe it's just me...meh) can take a metaphor...

paraflux
07-22-2003, 08:23 AM
Yes most crucifixions did not involve nails. That was kept for the people they really wanted to humiliate. Usually they just tied their arms to the cross beams and let them hang till they died.

brettmck10
07-22-2003, 06:16 PM
yep its about nails my friends i have taken awhile to write to this tool site not because i dislike it, but because im in a mental inst.
re living the eulogy of a battered martyre........

for sake he is here, i am here, he lives in new zealand...

tell everyone and get the chain going for my entitlement

nails in the mind people thats all it was

thank you

god bless

random_spiral
07-23-2003, 06:45 AM
...Since Eulogy is actually the beginning of the journey (with stinkfist being the introduction) ...

how is stinkfist not the beginning of the journey? why start the journey on song #2 when there's a perfectly good song at #1? i'd say that stinkfist is the beginning of whatever 'journey' that may lie in the album.

paraflux
07-23-2003, 09:43 AM
See: Opinion/Albums/AEnima/Stinkfist/Worst Song on the album


Whenever I say this some people get irritated. I never mean to say that Stinkfist isnt a good song, or doesnt count, or anything of the sort. I just say that Stinkfist is an introduction to the real message, a prep for surgery, a basic outline for the work, a PACKING for a journey. It just goes over the fact that people are bored, overstimulation made us numb, etc. All it is is a cry for "I Need More!" The rest of the album deals with what the "more" is. And the start of the journey is the long intro to Eulogy which deals with (gasp) death.

analognostic
07-23-2003, 01:41 PM
See: Opinion/Albums/AEnima/Stinkfist/Worst Song on the album

I just say that Stinkfist is an introduction to the real message, a prep for surgery, a basic outline for the work, a PACKING for a journey. It just goes over the fact that people are bored, overstimulation made us numb, etc. All it is is a cry for "I Need More!" The rest of the album deals with what the "more" is. And the start of the journey is the long intro to Eulogy which deals with (gasp) death.

I completely agree. I think stinkfist is an analysis of the state of the western world in general. I've only been in this forum a few days, but I'm surprised that there isn't more commentary on the overall theme of the album, or perhaps I've just "misssed" it.

Considering the way the songs flow, the themes, intermissions and what appears to me to be a progressive complexity from beginning to end, I percieve that recognition of the story of the album gets overlooked because of the intense focus on individual songs. Nothing wrong with that, but it seems that people aren't "seeing the forrest for the trees". I think that the multiple interpretations of the different songs could all fit into this framework as a story of evolution.

But, more specifically regarding Paraflux's comment and my own perceptions, look at the lyrics as where they are placed. "Something has to change"- 1st line from stinkfist, "Turn around and take my hand"- Last line from stinkfist, and "Prying open my third eye"- Last line from third eye.

I believe if one looks at these lines and common literary schemes, it sheds light as stinkfist addressing an overal "problem" with the world and then initiates the "voyage" of the story with the last line, indicating that he is going to walk you through the rest of the album, and culminating with the last line in third eye as a final resoultion after the rising action and climax in Aenema. I have a pretty firm framework of this in my head, and hopefully I can make a more in-depth analysis sometime soon, using particular song analyses by others on this page, but here's a preview:

The main theme of which is a sort of "evolution" from people now to the next human specie. Part I: The problem: social issues (stinkfist , eulogy, and H), not learning from our mistakes (useful idiot), genetics (46 & 2), and violence (message to harry manback). I think hooker with a penis and intermission are supposed to function together as a break in the story, with HWAP is irelevant in the scheme with a different tone, much the way No.7 on Dark Side of The Moon was with "Money", and as much as the last words in 46 & 2 foreshadow the second half of the album by it's last line"forty-six and two just ahead of me". Part II: Progression; The story continues with "Jimmy" (the first step in the evolution), then to die ier von satan (putting aside prejudices), Pushit (conquering "old" humans), Cesario Summability (A symbolic birth of the new race), Anemia (Catastrophe Survival, again with rising aciton), and finishing with Third Eye (perpetuation, stabilization and understanding).

I think the album is given the title Aenema because that is where the aciton and conflict resolution occurs, with the wiping out of the new species and survival by those who can "swim", a metaphor for supremacy. (This could be a commentary of and compared to the story of Noah's Ark and Orthodox Christian beliefs that we all are decendants of Ark surviviors, who were a "new breed")

brettmck10
07-23-2003, 02:01 PM
heya guys im a over here in new zealand waiting for a release slip
so i can be claimed the physical king.......

i know that i am the spiritual king (conciencse) of this new world
but maybe an acknowledgement even if you are not seriouse...

my spelling is dying also from this inst.
but my soul is strong

brett

kcweed420
07-23-2003, 09:55 PM
wow i had never looked at this song that way.....excellent point of view....it goes with eulogy quite well........and also a great explanation of the whole album's meaning.......thank you for clearing some things up for me :)

paraflux
07-24-2003, 06:24 AM
The main theme of which is a sort of "evolution" from people now to the next human specie. Part I: The problem: social issues (stinkfist , eulogy, and H), not learning from our mistakes (useful idiot), genetics (46 & 2), and violence (message to harry manback). I think hooker with a penis and intermission are supposed to function together as a break in the story, with HWAP is irelevant in the scheme with a different tone, much the way No.7 on Dark Side of The Moon was with "Money", and as much as the last words in 46 & 2 foreshadow the second half of the album by it's last line"forty-six and two just ahead of me". Part II: Progression; The story continues with "Jimmy" (the first step in the evolution), then to die ier von satan (putting aside prejudices), Pushit (conquering "old" humans), Cesario Summability (A symbolic birth of the new race), Anemia (Catastrophe Survival, again with rising aciton), and finishing with Third Eye (perpetuation, stabilization and understanding).



I did something similar in Albums/Lateralus/Schism/Schism on a larger scale thread.