t&l

[grtrthnone]

my personal opinion on ticks and leeches is the straight forward approach, i didnt read very deeply into this song.
First: there was an obviously long gap in full length albums from aenima to lateralus. fans were whining ( i freely admit to being one whining about it and if you are a tool fan and you say you didnt at least whine a little you are lieing)about when a new album would be out and also there were questions about what it would sound like, "this is what you wanted, this is what your getting"
Second: Tool has repeatedly stated a desire for us to think for ourselves, not be a follower (sheep), and all cheifs no indians, etc. and to an extent it can be construed as though fans themselves are the parasites feeding off the band letting the band think for them, are we, the fans, sucking the band dry? demanding of them constantly? well once again in response, this is what we wanted (new ALBUM) ... and this is what we are getting (i remember alot of people complaining about the sound of the new album but most of these people like tools music but in my opinion were not fans as i never recall any true fan complaining)

[rickiep00h]

I think that this is similar to the backlash Metallica had with Load and Reload. The "fans" didn't get what they wanted or expected, and thus, left the band.

But to abandon a group because they're doing what they feel is good (and to Tool, that's a pretty high standard), then I don't see what's so wrong with a little change. I mean, if they turned into a country band, or Adam started wipping out violin solos, then I might have to question it, but the point is, is it GOOD? Is the music GOOD? Who cares if it's not "heavy"? Heavy is a personal preference and decision anyway... I mean, Handel and Beethoven had their heavy moments, too.

I think a band evolution in music is just fine, and I think this album represents more of the band's main influences, i.e. Pink Floyd and King Crimson.

[J1516]

Yeah, this is the worst song they've ever done. I'm not saying that because it's too metal, I'm saying it because it has the most retarded lyrics, the worst voice, the worst and most cliched guitar/bass line for a metal song I've ever heard, it doesn't rock consistently to be considered a turn off your mind and rock song, it isn't emotional, at all, and it completely throws off the flow of the album. If you listen to Parabola's last couple of notes ring on, pause the album and skip to Lateralus, the entire album becomes twice as good. This seems like they wanted to make a marketable song that'd keep any of their death metal slipknot fans that would have a tool edge, even though that's the worst thing I think they could possibly do since it's keeping people from discovering tool and realizing just how amazing they are. They said they were shocked that they were considered to be like Pantera in some fan's eyes, but by making a song like this they're not really getting rid of that immage.
This is the least king crimson pink floyd song they've ever done, and it's probably the reason that the entire album got a rating of 1.9 at some sites. I mean how are we supposed to take a song like The Grudge seriously if it turns out they're the kind of band that makes this crap.

[Chinski]

Lyrics and riffs are only as good as you think they are. I like the song. The only way to know what Tool's intensions were is to ask the band. I just know what it means to me, and I think that is what makes or breakes a song for a listener...if it has meaning for him/her.

[J1516]

Sorry but you can make a song with great intentions but that doesn't make the song great. I really wish artists would stop making crappy songs to symbolize crap. For example, let's speak with mogwai:
ME: Hellow sirs, explain why your new album sucks so much.
Mogwai: Well we decided that the only way to truely give the audience a feeling of pain and annoyance and crap is to make, not just a song, but an entire album of crap. It's like this: our current government is pretty mediocre, so in order to portray the mediocrity of the government we make a mediocre album! As you can see, we're truely artists.
Me: Well I felt pretty annoyed, and the album is pretty painful to sit through.
Mogwai: See, we've made a painfully awful album for you, and it really worked!
Just try listening to the album without T&L and look at how dramatic it sounds.

[Chinski]

Phew...Its a good thing you came a long to tell me that the song actually is bad eventhough I like it. I shouldn't decide which songs I do and don't like any more. I'll just ask you.

[J1516]

I wasn't trying to tell you what to think, I'm just pointing out why I don't like it. Fine, you like a song that I think is f*cking awful. If you'll notice above, this is the opinion section, and I was stating my opinion on this song. I never said that you're wrong, I said that intentions don't make a good song and that I hate that artists make crap to symbolize crap. I find this song to be awful and mogwai to be mediocre (except young team, that's pretty good). I suggest not listening to Ticks & Leeches on the album. The first time me and my friends heard this we laughed, went online, looked at the lyrics, laughed again, and skipped it, and we love tool so much we wanted to call May 15th a religious holiday. I'll probably never understand what it means to anyone who likes it but that's because i havn't had your experiances, but I know what it means to me: less than nothing. It almost ruined the greatest album of all time. And I've tried to like it. I've tried giving i some kind of artistic merit, like perhaps it is a calling for change by realizing the pain the character is truely in that parabol/a ignored and that Lateralus is the change etc. etc. but when I heard it it still sounded like crap TO ME! Tool is the best band ever but no band has only great songs. The Beatles have awful songs, Radiohead has awful songs, Pink Floyd has some f*cking awful songs (ummagumma), and Sigur Ros has their share of terrible songs. But if you want me to sound less "controlling" i guess, then let me say it like this:
I believe that good intentions do not make an album good, music makes the album good. It is my opinion that ideas are the core, and that the idea behind ticks & leeches is very thin, which is my opinion and you don't need to believe it because it's my opinion and not necesarily yours. Now I will give this an example by writing a fake interview with a band that i don't find to be very good but you can find to be very good, and i won't hate you for liking:
you get the idea.
(Perhaps Kabir was wrong when he wrote that we all know it's just your opinion)

[Chinski]

Don't get your panties in a bind dude. I know its your opinion, I understand that. You're the one saying this is how it is and I'm sorry but you're wrong. Anyway, I never said good intentions make a song good. I was saying that the only way to know why or what the song is about is to ask the authors. I doubt they wrote it to sell albums. You just seemed to come in here and start trashing a song. If you did put some thought behind it than great, it just didn't look like it from your first couple posts.

[rickiep00h]

I mean how are we supposed to take a song like The Grudge seriously if it turns out they're the kind of band that makes this crap.


How indeed, when the Grudge really isn't ALL that different. When I saw it live it was probably the heaviest thing I've ever seen. There's a fair amount of pissed off rage. I think it was placed where it was on the album for the exact reason you people seem to think T&L is ON the album: to appease the fans that would be put off by the general lightness (in a manner of speaking) of the rest of the album.

In short, The Grudge is no more serious or important as Ticks and Leeches, or T&L wouldn't even be on the album. It was the band's decision, and I happen to agree that it fits, if not with the theme of the album, with the musicianship. While not the hardest thing on the album, it's still pretty difficult.

And you people seem to be forgetting that just as much as the song is screamingly unbelievably heavy, it's soft and airy and just sorta pissed instead of angry.

I think the song is a turning point on the album, switching from the focus on others to the focus on the self. Sort of an interlude between the two sections of the album.

[ragna16]

Well I'm not here to change your opinion, but I don't see why this song is so bad. It does have a soft side, and a hard (longer) side. So you don't want hard, fine, there's 4 more songs after this that you like. Is it too shallow for you? Too bad, there isn't depth in everything, you can't say it doesn't have substance.

Look at it likes he's talking to himself, and then it will make less sense and should be deep enough.

[Acrylamid]

Originally posted by J1516
This seems like they wanted to make a marketable song that'd keep any of their death metal slipknot fans
I assume that Slipknot fans really love this song, especially the part from 3'25'' to 5'55'' reminds me of the typical Slipknot sound ...

[KILLIAN]

I think this song is perfect when you're dealing with dipshits that are trying to use you for everything you have. It's a great song to have in mind when exacting revenge for the selfish actions of other individuals.
Thats just what I think anyhow.