"As bright as i am, this light is not my own..."

[Mario]

well, i read some of what maynard had to say about reflection, and it does make much sense. He didn't say much about it, but he said enough for me to make something of it. well here it goes:
Reflection is about this things we know and the things we refuse to see...
we are satellites, all of us, but you must remember that we are born knowing NOTHING.
as we grow, we learn, and most of what we learn, is TAUGHT to us as opposed to us learning from intuition.
we REFLECT the information given to us. that's it.
No one really has an ego, they, again, REFLECT information that makes them think they're somehow better...

What Maynard urges us to see is that none of us acquire everything we learn from intuition. We should "crucify" this ego, or in other words, realize that we merely reflect the light (information) and we should find ways of finding the unconceivable, we CAN find within ourselves ways to be great, without DEPENDING on this REFLECTION.
"We'll come to find that we are all one mind."
We ARE all one mind, we learn (reflect) the same, but what we do of our knowledge, that's a different story.
We can all be great, but as i've said already, we must be well grounded about what we know...

[Pro_Art]

Well said. I'll add my reply to this later when I have time to think.

[nameless]

thats very similar to what i though of the song in general without knowing his views..
nice work with the compilation of his comments into this...

[AnemicRoyalty]

where did you read Maynard's comments on the song???

[DeadKennedys]

I heard(I am not sure) that Maynard did not write all of Lateralis so maybe this is his way of telling Tools fans.

[crow011]

Originally posted by DeadKennedys
I heard(I am not sure) that Maynard did not write all of Lateralis so maybe this is his way of telling Tools fans.

really??? . . .

where did you hear that? . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

[paper_head]

And you think you know a song well! I have never looked at it in that light before, but that does seem to work if you think about it hard enough. That kind of tells me that you can learn a lot more from lifes experiences when you take matters into your own hands. We are born knowing nothing, and everything is taught to us, but when we become intelligant and independent enough to learn and think for our selves and not from someone else like an infant, you get so much more out of life. I like that theory!

[awwww shoot]

Makes perfect sense to me. Spiritual enlightenment is being in a state of child-like simplicity. Kinda like experiencing everything for the first time. Instead of claiming to be intelligent by knowing facts other people know or knowing about things we invented that are impure, learn to use your intuitive and creative side and find knowledge within your experiences.

[ObviousParadox]

awesome, i think that's exactly right. Its like yes a person is bright but they are merely a reflection of all their experiances/knowledge and how they use them, its very interesting and I really like it, the vocals are incredible in this song, i can't get enough of them

[Sphase]

i dont know, but i consider reflection to be about someone he loves...

[LA_sucksballs]

Originally posted by Sphase
i dont know, but i consider reflection to be about someone he loves...

Well, I heard once he called his gf/wife? (Brena Furguson) HIs reflection, thus the "My reflection wraps and pulls me under" in Brena (APC) But i dont think it fits in this song....

[4th Eye]

I read the topic and thought something like this:
"As wise as I think I am, I think with other people's thoughts."

I've been thinking this more with the "Think for yourself"-thing and I sometimes notice that my wise thoughts aren't mine. We've been filled with information which we modify a bit and then think they're our thoughts and get a copyright to them. It is pretty hard to think for yourself when you've been influenced and taught by other people all your life.

[abefrohmn]

Originally posted by 4th Eye
I read the topic and thought something like this:
"As wise as I think I am, I think with other people's thoughts."

I've been thinking this more with the "Think for yourself"-thing and I sometimes notice that my wise thoughts aren't mine. We've been filled with information which we modify a bit and then think they're our thoughts and get a copyright to them. It is pretty hard to think for yourself when you've been influenced and taught by other people all your life.


Damn cool thread, I've spent much time mulling over the meaning of reflection. This has sped me along.

That reminded me of this Khalil Gibran quote,

"Our mind is a sponge; our heart is a stream. Is it not strange that most of us choose sucking rather than running?

[LA_sucksballs]

[/B][/QUOTE]I like how they tie this in with how there is a song on APC's album called reflection.. which kind of unifies the whole TooL (masculine) and APC (feminine) aspect unifying the separated duad we call God. [/B][/QUOTE]

No, there isnt a song on APC's Album called reflection... I dont know where u got that from. But there is a song called Brena (Maynards Girl) and it does use the word Reflection. (Maynard refers to Brena as his reflection) So I think ur whole idea on the 2 aspects coming together to form "god" isnt really right.... Ready my thoughts on the song, thread titled "maynard loves us". Long live the King.
CJK

[LA_sucksballs]

I dont know what just happened with that quote thing...

[holy reality]

i do believe reflection and brena are connected, as well sa pushit.... why?

they are all the 11th track, and they all speak of reflections and relationships (relationship with the ego and information in the case of reflection) and growth and change

[crackerjack]

Originally posted by holy reality
i do believe reflection and brena are connected, as well sa pushit.... why?




I have read that 'Reflection' was a sort of nickname given to Brena(M's fiance) by Maynard. I'm pretty sure that this is the same person that Pushit was written about, but who knows? Also, when he speaks about a reflection in Pushit, he's talking about an "infant here before me." That could be about his son, or just more stuff having to do with his forgotten childhood.
But in Reflection, it's a whole different look on the word. In Jungian terms, reflection is a man's search for spirituallity.

[ParanoidMartyr]

i always think of reflection as a dark lullaby. the whole idea of the moon rocking the life of this figure that is weeping in fetal position gives me a sense of comfort.

there's a message of hope for the humans. i remember discussing with some friends of mine about how vulnerable and yet egocentric is the humanity. a single person has the will to believe he/she holds the knowledge to have the universe in his hand.. but still be defenseless against any nature's display of power such as storms. reminds me of "swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human" line of lateralus.

what i'm trying to say is that Reflection embraces a person and says: "hey, you don't have to be original and special all the time. stop striving. stop thiking. let yourself go for a minute there..". like the moon, to be something by reflection, abstraction and not a constant creation of hypocrite opinions to distinguish one from another. it is still beautiful despite its light belongs to the sun. the moon "resuscitates the hopeless" that don't stand above others because of their extreme abilities or complicated thoughts.

there's a call in that song to halt all sense of angst caused by the mere existence of the being "someone". a claim for inertia of life.. let the words spill through, let them pass right through, bringing out our hope and reason, before we pine away.. killing each other to establish our point of view as the one to stay and to be special and different..

"being" is already a freaking miracle.

[sircorn]

Originally posted by 4th Eye
I read the topic and thought something like this:
"As wise as I think I am, I think with other people's thoughts."

I've been thinking this more with the "Think for yourself"-thing and I sometimes notice that my wise thoughts aren't mine. We've been filled with information which we modify a bit and then think they're our thoughts and get a copyright to them. It is pretty hard to think for yourself when you've been influenced and taught by other people all your life.

It all seems to make sence and fall in together ("the pieces fit" hehe) Almost all their songs seem to intertwine with one another, probaly because there all original and come from MJK's own, enigmatic mind.

When I first heard this song, i took that line literal, but after thinking about it I came to the same conclusion. Now, I can't imagine what the hell I was thinking. OF course its not literal look at all these other metaphorical songs. Thats just what reflection is. A metaphor. Kinda ironic how the title is the definition of metaphor.

bah, now im just ranting. Time for bed. g'night all.

[rpulkys]

Originally posted by sircorn
It all seems to make sence and fall in together ("the pieces fit" hehe) Almost all their songs seem to intertwine with one another, probaly because there all original and come from MJK's own, enigmatic mind.

When I first heard this song, i took that line literal, but after thinking about it I came to the same conclusion. Now, I can't imagine what the hell I was thinking. OF course its not literal look at all these other metaphorical songs. Thats just what reflection is. A metaphor. Kinda ironic how the title is the definition of metaphor.

bah, now im just ranting. Time for bed. g'night all.

Why do so many people think that it is just MJK making all this music? If you're seen/read any interviews you'll find out that Tool is one large cohesive unit, blending at times 4 very unique perspectives. MJK has said (think is was "Much Loud" interview) that he in fact is not the creative force behind the band. He calls himself more of a "reactionary artist" as opposed to a "creative artist." Give the rest of the band its due credit.

[Liminal]

Originally posted by rpulkys
Why do so many people think that it is just MJK making all this music? If you're seen/read any interviews you'll find out that Tool is one large cohesive unit, blending at times 4 very unique perspectives. MJK has said (think is was "Much Loud" interview) that he in fact is not the creative force behind the band. He calls himself more of a "reactionary artist" as opposed to a "creative artist." Give the rest of the band its due credit.

Maynard writes the lyrics for APC and Tool. The point of that comment was that Tool is a band... not Maynard doing spoken word poetry. Both bands talk about having songs finished and waiting for Maynard to come write lyrics for them. Maynard writes the lyrics, the other members of the bands write the music. Lyrics are just one aspect of a song. Music carries emotion, and Maynard said in that same interview that he tries to put that emotion into perspective.
Anyrate, tool is fucking amazing.
Kurt

[4th Eye]

The members, the pieces fit. That's why Tool is so good. They're forming a whole which can't be separated (except Paul's leaving, but Justin fit as well).

"'Till one and one and one and one are one"

[venusdatura]

we are satellites, all of us, but you must remember that we are born knowing NOTHING.


I wouldn't say we were born knowing nothing....and I don't just mean the instincts we are born with....but that is just my opinion....

[reign3]

somebody suggested the "collective conciousness" theory for this song. though i do happen to believe in that, i also believe we know nothing when we are born. the collective conciousness, i think, is something that can be tapped into subconciously, or maybe conciously through an extensive spiritual journey, but thats another story. but i believe that we are all products of our environment and experiences.

that is great info mario. i'd like to see where you got that.

[spiralion]

this should be a thread of its own but I won't.

My whole theory is that when tool put Aenima out (this was said in an interview) that they didn't expect it to be as big as it was. That was more of an objective album and I think Lateralus is a more subjective one. I think this song is less about a personal experience and more of a subjective account of Third Eye.