your sins and your lies..

[author of bible]

"To ascend you must die. You must be crucified for your sins and your lies. Goodbye... "(lyrics from the tool band website)
it sounds much more like
our sins and our lies
it also relates to jesus suffering for the sins of all christians ever to come till the day of judgement
im not a christian but i still think so

[seb_135]

I was just about to post sth familiar. I see it familiar in all moments when a liryc is gonna be a blasphemy the words become unclear. It's here, in Opiate's "Jesus Christ why don't you come save my life, open my eyes, blind me with your light and lies/light now". In APC's Judith: "Fuck (Thank) your God". I don't really know what to think.

[ThirdEyeSeed]

In the APC aMOTION DVD/CD Maynard commentated and he specifically said, "Genesis 1:1--'In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.' In the original Aramaic text, that word was Yahweh or Jehovah, which means light and love. We've twisted it to mean this guy with a beard passing judgement, but it's not. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was Love and Light; infinite, unconditional, and without judgement. At that point you can pretty much close the book, you know? "

I remember on the Judith commentary he said something along the lines of, "I said fuck your God, not fuck the God." Meaning, when he says, "Fuck your God," he means the judgemental, cranky, inconsistent God. EDIT: Also, the "Thank your god" part is more sarcastic as in, "Look what he did for you. Thank him, go ahead." And then you hear his rage, obviously . . .

Another quote from, apparently, April 16, 1995 in Melbourne, Australia, "This is Easter, I think, isn't it? So, this is the day they nail that meat on a stick or is that another day? I don't know. Decent meals are hard to find on a day like this. That's shit. We're going to get some Chinese food later, yeah, believe that shit."

Every metaphor involving crucifixtion doesn't immediately attempt to highlight Jesus Christ.

I think this song is about Maynard saying g'bye to his ego. I prefer the song like that too, so if you think otherwise, well, don't whine to me about not agreeing.

*(Other quotes on wikiquote.com, if you're curious.)

[DON IOTAE]

"To ascend you must die. You must be crucified for your sins and your lies. Goodbye... "(lyrics from the tool band website)
it sounds much more like
our sins and our lies
it also relates to jesus suffering for the sins of all christians ever to come till the day of judgement
im not a christian but i still think so

TRUE...

[ThirdEyeSeed]

TRUE...

lol . . .

[author of bible]

tool songs are INTENTIONALLY written to be vague in their meaning..
you can relate it to whatever shit you want to...
its kinda tempting to relate it to Jesus..
Im a public speaker...sometimes i pull it on myself too...
lol...

[DON IOTAE]

that's not true. Tool's songs are very precise and patiently craftedin terms of their meaning.

[eulogy508]

^How can you be so sure?

[Arkham Asylum]

I was just about to post sth familiar. I see it familiar in all moments when a liryc is gonna be a blasphemy the words become unclear. It's here, in Opiate's "Jesus Christ why don't you come save my life, open my eyes, blind me with your light and lies/light now". In APC's Judith: "Fuck (Thank) your God". I don't really know what to think.

Awesome observation.

On a side note, the lyrics online by Maynard are his official blueprints. Things change in the songs, as they are only versions of his lyrics.

[DON IOTAE]

^How can you be so sure?

well, the fact that we're second guessing so much on the meaning of the songs can only mean that we haven't understood its precise meaning.

[Clutch_The_Cornerstone]

exactly..how can they be vague if we are still guessing to understand the real meaning of any song.

[Hodge]

haha i remember when i first bought this cd, i thought he said "tool said you must die"

[DON IOTAE]

if Tool said it, then it's bullshit.

;)

[seb_135]

well, the fact that we're second guessing so much on the meaning of the songs can only mean that we haven't understood its precise meaning.

Is there really sth like "precise" meaning? I suppose it's impossible to close any song in still definitions. That's why lirycs "wary at times".

[DON IOTAE]

only if we all think like MJK....

[author of bible]

that's not true. Tool's songs are very precise and patiently craftedin terms of their meaning.

there sure is some precise meaning of every song.. but tool guys keep it concealed..
if they wont do so most of the listeners wouldnt be able to relate to their songs..

normally people like a song if they find a way to pull it on their lives
that is Mr Average Joe's approach(not mine..)

[DON IOTAE]

... which means that they really did understand it.

[FightingMonkey]

I think we ALL understand as we want to understand it...as it relates to us. Sure, the songs have a very specific meaning when they were written, but once recorded and distributed, they become open to the interpretation of the listener. Everything has a specific meaning, even when interpreted by a "non-creator," but it is specific to the interpretor. It's like a painting: it is done with a specific purpose or message, but as it is viewed more and more and time continues forward, it's meaning, the message it carries changes and evolves. It remains specific, but only specific to that moment. Sorry if this sounds a little confusing, but I'm at work and having to rush type my thoughts.

[author of bible]

exactly...

[daddywags]

I think we ALL understand as we want to understand it...as it relates to us. Sure, the songs have a very specific meaning when they were written, but once recorded and distributed, they become open to the interpretation of the listener. Everything has a specific meaning, even when interpreted by a "non-creator," but it is specific to the interpretor. It's like a painting: it is done with a specific purpose or message, but as it is viewed more and more and time continues forward, it's meaning, the message it carries changes and evolves. It remains specific, but only specific to that moment. Sorry if this sounds a little confusing, but I'm at work and having to rush type my thoughts.

I totally agree, music is poetry. Especially Tool's music. In turn poetry meanings differ from person to person. There is usually an overall idea that everyone agrees on...but as to specific meaning each person attaches that meaning to the song to coencide to their life. Thats the beauty of poetry.

So with that being said i would argue that none of their songs actually have a "percise" meaning. I mean everyone understands their vague meaning but we make them percise by interpreting them ourselves.

You may ask then why do we discuss these meanings on boards like this one? It is because when a group of people get together and have an intelectual conversasion that we truely further our own understanding of the song and/or meaning. We also may realize that we agree with another persons idea or that something we though but could not fully wrap our head around or something we could put in our own words is better explained by someone else.

[the_milkman]

I totally agree, music is poetry. Especially Tool's music. In turn poetry meanings differ from person to person. There is usually an overall idea that everyone agrees on...but as to specific meaning each person attaches that meaning to the song to coencide to their life. Thats the beauty of poetry.

So with that being said i would argue that none of their songs actually have a "percise" meaning. I mean everyone understands their vague meaning but we make them percise by interpreting them ourselves.

You may ask then why do we discuss these meanings on boards like this one? It is because when a group of people get together and have an intelectual conversasion that we truely further our own understanding of the song and/or meaning. We also may realize that we agree with another persons idea or that something we though but could not fully wrap our head around or something we could put in our own words is better explained by someone else.
yeah... that pretty much sums it up.. *nods*