This Dualistic Reality

[]v[edusa]

Before you read this I suggest you read my interpretation on “intension”. Obviously the two songs are connected. You are probably not going to understand this unless you read that first. All of this info is coming from Drunvalo once again.

Luciferian Experiment and a Brief Summary from “Intension”

The purpose of God (universal consciousness) creating the believed to be Luciferian Experiment was so that humans could live by their own free will. It was God who created Lucifer so that free will could become reality. It was Lucifer and his angels who brought this new free will consciousness to mankind. The intention of free will was to move from the original reality (unified consciousness) to the dualistic reality (2nd level of consciousness). The dualistic reality is supposed to be a bridge to the third new reality (46 and 2). The third reality is a combination of the two other realities.

Angels on the sideline,
Puzzled and amused.
Why did Father give these humans free will?
Now they're all confused.

Apparently, since this ability of using your own free will is fairly new to the universe it is believed that angels and others in the universe are curious to seeing what’s going to happen to us so they are watching us. They are obviously puzzled as to why God gave free will to the humans cause of all the bad choices humans have taken. Humans were intended to use their own free will to basically reach for 46 and 2.

Where there's one you're bound to divide it
Right in two

I believe this has to do with dividing the unified consciousness into a polarized or disharmonic reality. Maynard sang about this before. Take Schism for example:

I know the pieces fit cuz I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame it doesn't mean I don't desire to
Point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over.

All blaming, killing, acting selfish, etc. is doing is dividing people further from a unified consciousness. Schism and Right in Two have a huge connection.

Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground.
Silly monkeys give them thumbs they forge a blade
And where there's one they're bound to divide it
Right in two

It’s that “want and need” false ego allowing people to fight over stupid possessions and over land.. I think the thumbs part has to do with evolution. The monkeys were supposed to evolve into something extraordinary but instead of using these amazing new capabilities to find their way back to a unified consciousness they are just dividing themselves even more.

Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability,
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.

People are too sucked into this false ego reality of greed and what not that they don’t even notice their true center inside them. People choose to not see that we are all connected or “are all one mind”.

[Cutting it all right in two
/ Cut it all right in two]
/ Cutting our love right in two]

We are splitting ourselves further and further away from each other. Our love and the true communication from the heart is falling apart. The pieces were whole before so we can put the pieces back together. Read my interpretation on Schism to better understand my view on this. http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?p=1812863

The angels cant really do too much to control our own will, but they do have hope that one day these “monkeys” will decide to stop all this fighting and choose to take the next step down evolution…

[jevons]

I guess my question is, does it even matter? Would there enough people with their heads out of their asses if we grow exponentially for the next 5 years?

6(7) billion people, how many nations presently at war? How many are even trying to think anymore?

[]v[edusa]

I think one of the main problems in the world are those who have that "does it even matter?" attitude. I hear too many people saying this. I think because so many people are following that way of thinking it kinda makes things more hopeless.

I still try to have hope for the planet. Im not one of those that just look at the ground, see garbage all over it and then decide to throw more garbage on the ground because everyone else is doing it. If only people werent like sheep following the rest of the herd and if they began to realize that they are acting like sheep then maybe major changes can take place.

And if the rest of the world doesnt want to change then I wouldnt mind watching Mother Earth washing it all away, if it ever happens.

[jevons]

See, i feel too bad every day when i realise i can't accept their apathy. It's like the apathy actually hurts me; it's probably the only thing i can't just let be, or let go, or dissolve with love.
I can't love that. But nothing works.
And i figure if i let it be, i'm just like them...
and there really isn't anything i can do.

If they wake up and it's all going to shit, they sigh.
If they order freis and get eggs, they sigh.

[]v[edusa]

well, atleast Tool is creating songs showing that this false ego and the resistance of eveyones shadow reflection are dividing us in hope that maybe people will see this problem and will choose by will alone to unite once again.

[Eight]

What's depressing is that even the people who are learning and want to move on can't because of the way they are forced to live. I wish we could just forget about money but everything is driven by it. We really can't live comfortably without spending it. Those that are homeless suffer because of the way those that are not treat them as well as natural dilemas like shelter and the environment. The only way for us to be unified, is for everyone to come together and try. So many people have stopped trying, how can those that want to make any external progress if their environment keeps pushing them back down? You can only change so much on the inside before it needs to be equal on the outside. Seems so impossible.

[bassmaster]

People, watch a movie called "Pay It Forward".

It shows that for you to change the world (some of it at any rate) all you need to do is make an impact upon 3 people, and for them to pay it forward.

With this in mind, it always matters.

[Cheesegreater]

Good points Eight.

It seems we are stuck in the reality handed to us much of the time. People would love to subscribe to "pure" doctrines, but nitty-gritty reality prevents this. Maybe you're a drug-dealer just to make ends meet. You justufy it because you are supplying people who would otherwise get it elsewhere. Point is, it's quite a predicment to "believe" one way but feel "forced" to live another way. That's why people are so devout about their philosophies. They're just trying to explain their personal beliefs against their different courses of action.

Rambling, sorry...

[Zarathustra]

Did anyone consider that maybe we don't want to be a unified consciousness and we want to be seperated? >_> That maybe that's why there has been conflict since time began and that maybe this world of "many" we live in is better than a one "unified" entity.

Really stupid example and I have to reveal that I like anime >_> but if anyone has seen evangelion, what happens in the end. It turns out the Ikari's plan was to merge mankind into one being, mentally and physically speaking. As the main character, shinji's mind and body are disintegrating and merging into one with the rest of the world. But in the last sequence he decides he doesnt want to be one with everyone and he wants to keep himself because he concludes it's better to live as yourself in a world full of other different people with different views than to live in a world with no individuality and one unified point of view.

This "where there's one, your bound to divide it right two" is exactly what lets us be individuals. The reason mankind keeps fighting over land and what not and continues to always divide "right in two" is because he wants to be an individual and not of one mine.

THE FRIKKEN REASON WE CUT IT RIGHT IN TWO IS BECAUSE WE FRIKKEN WANT THERE TO BE TWO AND NOT ONE GAWD

[Rakzis]

lol, that show has nothing to do with reality(seen it) We would never become physically "one" and our thoughts would never be "one". That would be too extreme to suggest we would be unified consciously where we would all have the same thoughts as everyone (ridiculous)................. yeah, every one is going to wake up and have the same thought "I'm going to have eggs for breakfast today" or " I'm going to wear blue today" We could only be unified in a reason to not do harm to ourselfs, others, and the earth and have the same goals to work for, like fixing the earth, ceasing war, end to pollution, starvation, and just enjoying the life and gift we were given. The earth is the "PERFECT" distance from the sun to sustain life (impossible by chance) we see the effects of pollution, atomic and nuclear weapons, cutting down the rainforest..............the list goes on. Those things cause the earth to break from it's perfect state, orbit, set path, it's spiral around the sun causing earthquakes and tsunamies and violent weather, and the crazy thing about it is................The earth can even REPAIR itself if we cease all of that. Is it such a bad thing if people were to choose to change for the better to make the same goals? stop me please if I sound crazy and unrealistic and weird and different for saying these things. So your saying everyone subconsciously doesn't want things to get better?............. so just like if you were to be sick, or have a broken bone and you can't wait for the pain and suffering to end...........when it is finally gone, YOU'LL MISS IT AND WISH FOR IT COME BACK?! So if war ends and sickness ends and there's peace and you enjoy a stress free life, you'll(we, whoever) eventually want war, sickness, and pain back in life?! I doubt that.

[Zarathustra]

Wait and see. We will. But aside from that. The reason there is war, is because people have different beliefs. They have freedom to choose. To say foolishly "someday we can all live in peace" is just plain moronic and unjust. What your really saying is someday we will all be unified under one god. Well that's all Islam is trying to deny.

So lets say this happens and theres peace. And your next door neighbor decides he wants to kill children. Are you going to be able to live in peace with him? No your not. You will try to stop him. There it is conflict has been born again. Now you will put rules and regulations around the land. You will make your own tten commandments. And there will be people who disagree and will rebel, and in the name of "peace and love" you will kill them. and there you go, the world as it is today is reborn.

This cycle of war and peace is the natural course of nature. Someday this planet will be used up and earth will be no more. The universe is a big place and its foolish to think that there isnt maybe just maybe, other life out there.

Life consumes itself and gives birth to it again and again...

Life feeds on life. This is necessary.

[jevons]

People, watch a movie called "Pay It Forward".

It shows that for you to change the world (some of it at any rate) all you need to do is make an impact upon 3 people, and for them to pay it forward.

With this in mind, it always matters.

Sarcastic or not, i do keep shit like this in mind. I'm a relentless conversationalist. I don't really respect the ''you're not supposed to speak right now, about things like that'' concept... unless it's a funeral.

[jevons]

Did anyone consider that maybe we don't want to be a unified consciousness and we want to be seperated? >_> That maybe that's why there has been conflict since time began and that maybe this world of "many" we live in is better than a one "unified" entity.

Really stupid example and I have to reveal that I like anime >_> but if anyone has seen evangelion, what happens in the end. It turns out the Ikari's plan was to merge mankind into one being, mentally and physically speaking. As the main character, shinji's mind and body are disintegrating and merging into one with the rest of the world. But in the last sequence he decides he doesnt want to be one with everyone and he wants to keep himself because he concludes it's better to live as yourself in a world full of other different people with different views than to live in a world with no individuality and one unified point of view.

This "where there's one, your bound to divide it right two" is exactly what lets us be individuals. The reason mankind keeps fighting over land and what not and continues to always divide "right in two" is because he wants to be an individual and not of one mine.

THE FRIKKEN REASON WE CUT IT RIGHT IN TWO IS BECAUSE WE FRIKKEN WANT THERE TO BE TWO AND NOT ONE GAWD




This is the problem, don't get used to it. The divide wasn't the start point, it was the end of a very old cycle. This whole thing is pretty new.
We'll get it right eventually, i'm sure of that.
I just don't like thinking about the timeframe, of the opportunity cost.
We will always prefer to be in a segregate reality so long as we consider our intentions, or out loves, or our things of a higher worth than others.
Think about it, shinji kept himself because he felt it was a degredation to remove it for the promised unity, which exposes a flaw in the unity. If it did not feel right to him, it was probably a lie.
Shinji did the right thing.
But today, we have a new consciousness actually undermining what is happening on the news. Soon, the old royals, the bloodlines will be gone. You can feel it if you pay attention.
Think about the greatest line in movie history ''People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.'' or ''What is a revolution without dancing?''

V for Vendetta.

Fuck Guy Fawkes Night.

[]v[edusa]

Did anyone consider that maybe we don't want to be a unified consciousness and we want to be seperated? >_> That maybe that's why there has been conflict since time began and that maybe this world of "many" we live in is better than a one "unified" entity.


Thats kinda partially true.

I thought I mentioned that we have to go though this dualistic reality first. We cant really just skip steps. The moment language that was spoken through the mouth and writing was introduced was the moment we entered the dualistic reality and I really feel everyone did choose to enter this reality.

I think every even number of levels of consciousness is a disharmonic reality.

lets say you are eternal, why would you want to be in the same level of consciousness for the rest of eternity? especially a disharmonic one?

[Zarathustra]

But that's what I'm trying to get at. There IS dancing in a revolution. There is happiness in a revolution. And that is the reason the world stays divided. So we as people can expirience that dance and that true again and again. The reason humans "cut it all right in two" again and again is because they want to stay divided.

The real problem is not the division. I think the divided state is a higher plain of being than a unified one. But the problem is the people in control and the people not in control, people in general, act in a way that is a detriment to the very existence of the system.

For example the owner of a company taking alot of the profits for his own comfort while the people that do the grunt work that is necessary for the existence of the company, live in utter poverty. The oil tycoons racking up the price of oil because people need oil to live and they know that no matter what they do people will still pay for it. What needs to happen is the quote unquote "royalty" of the world need to realize it's the average working man who is making their lives possible. Conversely it is the royalty thats making the working man's life possible. They both need each other to exist. The gas tycoons need customers and the customers need the tycoons.

What I'm getting at is the different people of the world as a whole need to realize that no matter what they do for a living someone else is depending on them for survival. The CEO's if you will need to realize if they dont respect and take care of there workers the workers will just quit. Atlus will shrug (this is what the book atlas shrugged is about. what if the people who keep the world running just quit?) and if that happens the whole system will collapse and people will die and there wont be any life left to fight about. The workers also have to realize that the people they work for are just as important to the profit of the whole as they are.

Most people think that the "greedy" are being selfish and selfishness is the problem. Since that CEO lives the life of luxury and his workers live in poverty he's selfish. Or because the oil rulers jack up gas prices their being selfish. What the world isnt realizing is that this presumed selfishness will in the end destroy the world. People will eventually not be able to afford oil and the world will collapse. Workers will be fed up and just quit and economy will all go to hell.

No it's not selfishness that's the problem. It's that no one understands that if the system fails EVERYONE WILL DIE. And if everyone else dies so will you. So in reality people arent thinking selfishly enough. For us to survive we all have to survive because we all play out our necessary roles in the system.

We dont have to unify as one mind and one belief. There doesnt need to be peace. We can still hate each other all we want. But what we do need to unify on is the realization that the path we are walking on wont only lead to the destruction of our enemies but our own destruction as well. For humans to survive huanity as a whole needs to survive.

So believe what you will and fight about it. But understand that if the system as a whole is to collapse. There won't be a revolution to dance in. There wont be people to hate. There wont be people to love. There wont be a war to fight. And there wont be peace to be enjoyed.

[Zarathustra]

Thats kinda partially true.

I thought I mentioned that we have to go though this dualistic reality first. We cant really just skip steps. The moment language that was spoken through the mouth and writing was introduced was the moment we entered the dualistic reality and I really feel everyone did choose to enter this reality.

I think every even number of levels of consciousness is a disharmonic reality.

lets say you are eternal, why would you want to be in the same level of consciousness for the rest of eternity? especially a disharmonic one?

The next step of evolution as you say is not a return to one or harmony. We tried harmony out and we made a conscious decision to divide and live in disharmony. Disharmony is higher on the evolution tree than harmony is. Now we live in disharmany and were still not satisfied. What next? We dont want to return to a state of harmony. We already no thats not satisfying.

The next and perhaps final step is a balance of harmony and disharmony. They are contigent on each other like a yin/yang. Polar opposites but both part of a greater whole that cant exist with out one or the other.

You ask me if I was eternal would I want to live in this state of disharmony forever? No. I want to live in a state of harmony and disharmony, perfectly balanced for eternity.

[]v[edusa]

Most people think that the "greedy" are being selfish and selfishness is the problem. Since that CEO lives the life of luxury and his workers live in poverty he's selfish. Or because the oil rulers jack up gas prices their being selfish. What the world isnt realizing is that this presumed selfishness will in the end destroy the world. People will eventually not be able to afford oil and the world will collapse. Workers will be fed up and just quit and economy will all go to hell.

No it's not selfishness that's the problem. It's that no one understands that if the system fails EVERYONE WILL DIE. And if everyone else dies so will you. So in reality people arent thinking selfishly enough. For us to survive we all have to survive because we all play out our necessary roles in the system.

We dont have to unify as one mind and one belief. There doesnt need to be peace. We can still hate each other all we want. But what we do need to unify on is the realization that the path we are walking on wont only lead to the destruction of our enemies but our own destruction as well. For humans to survive huanity as a whole needs to survive.


But selfishness IS the problem, its our unself, the false ego. It's that stupid need for materials things. It's the biggest problem of them all. I hope the system fails. My necessary role is not in the system. Think carnally, and you will be flesh, but think symbolically, and then you will be spirit.

The next step of evolution as you say is not a return to one or harmony. We tried harmony out and we made a conscious decision to divide and live in disharmony. Disharmony is higher on the evolution tree than harmony is. Now we live in disharmany and were still not satisfied. What next? We dont want to return to a state of harmony. We already no thats not satisfying.

The next and perhaps final step is a balance of harmony and disharmony. They are contigent on each other like a yin/yang. Polar opposites but both part of a greater whole that cant exist with out one or the other.

You ask me if I was eternal would I want to live in this state of disharmony forever? No. I want to live in a state of harmony and disharmony, perfectly balanced for eternity.

omg!!! have you read anything that I just said on these forums??? the third reality is a combination of the original reality (unified one) and the dualistic reality. 1 + 2 = 3 not 1.

.......

[jevons]

Zarathustra, you must understand at some point how deep the grudge goes when it comes to the ''royalty'' of the world. They know exactly what we provide them, and they feed us McDonalds and make our kids work there for fucking nothing.

Princess Diana, in reference to the British Royal family: They are not Human.
Hyperbole or not, think about it.

Think of Humanity as a family, paren'ts get divorced to ''discover themselves'' and all that horseshit. What happens? They both end up acting like children, little spoiled children deteriorating as a result of their choice to neglect anything but themselves.
We are like that now, forcing, not chosing, forcing ourselves to learn the hard way that we are alll one.
Think of that family guy episode where the horse in the 1 horse town is arguing with himself, ''You shut up, no you shut up... what's that?!! The Wind!"

That is us.

This is not an elevation, this is a test of what we were once made of.

Think about it, how many eons can you spend being sure you've got it right, if you've never been tested?

How does a perfect being test itself? Fall apart, attempt a reassembly.
If it was so damn perfect, then shouldn't it be able to self-govern in the absence of the golden perspective?

Our pineal gland would not be withering into dust if this was heaven/higher/perfect/intended.
We live on a perpetual landslide. Try to keep that in mind.

[jevons]

I just started reading the FOL, i'm only about half way through the first book, but i likes what he says so far. Far fetched enough to be true, but it almost reads like fantasy.

I don't know how to feel just now.


P.S. Koalas, i'll start a rival koalas crew if that thang actually takes off.

[Zarathustra]

ugh I hate all this symbolic spiritualized philosophy >_> I just dont think that way. Body am I, not soul. My soul is the organ that thinks.

But firstly I have worked 55 hours a week for 8.75 an hour for the last 10 years....I know how deep the grudge goes. And that's what I'm getting at. This grudge is not something that can be let go. Be in 10, 100, or 1000 years from now us grunts of world are simply not going to take it anymore. We dont need all this spiritual unification crap. I dont fucking want to be spiritually connected to everyone in the universe. I dont want to think the same way and have the same "golden perspective" as everyone else. There is no golden perspective. There is no judge of truth outside of our own minds. It's good that people disagree. I dont want to live in a world where everything is just peachey all the time and everyone gets along and agrees on everything. I like argueing I like debating and I like fighting. You take away those things and youve destroyed the heart of the warrior which you probaly want to do anyway. But Ill tell you that people that enjoy argueing for the sake of argueing and love life as it is are stronger than you are.

I work in a kitchen and serve 500 dinners a night and its hell. It's a warzone and utter stress. By the end of the night I have to go out and throw beer kegs against the wall to stay sane. But you know why ive kept working there all this time? Because I enjoy. I enjoy the fight and the feeling of victory afterwards. After the days work is done I look back on it and think to myself "wow that was ausome".

I dont want an end state of the universe. I dont want it to reach a final point where it doesnt change from there on out. I dont want eternal peace or eternal war. I want to fight the war and have the victory and live the peace. Then do it all over again for eternity. Thats what I do everyday I go to work. I will never let anyone take that war from me.

It isnt this philosophical/spiritual unification or whatever the fuck you mean that the world needs. The "royalty" of the world needs to stop using the "dogs" until they die. That is all that needs to happen. It probaly never will and what will probaly happen is we will revolt and bleed the pigs.

But what I was saying about the selfishness thing.... If the "pigs" knew what was good for them they would stop using us so badly. But they want and because of that someday there will be a real revelution and a real war over this and the pigs will die. My point was that if they actually thought with their own interest in mind theyd treat us better because someday we will kill them.

[]v[edusa]

...Well I sure hope youre happy that Tool made this song about you.

[Zarathustra]

heh, it feels like losing a brother actually.

If you delve into philosophy deep enough, you'll find a very few philosophers positing this life as perfection, my favorite Nietzche obviously. I always wondered when I was younger why he wasnt more popular or his philosophy didnt catch on but it's kinda obvious now. Most of the world cant stomach that mode of thinking.

[]v[edusa]

To other people on the forums, It is necessary for me to quote Tool like this right now. I have my reasons for posting a message in this sort of way.

heh, it feels like losing a brother actually.



Yah, What the hell was I doing trying to think for myself and question authorities? I should do everything that they tell me to do. Why do I keep running back when people keep knocking me down? I should cancel going to that workshop in april to activate my merkaba and those other swimming lessons. I should stop trying to free my inner child, I should be sleeping instead of heading home. My eyes must have been deep in muddy waters. My warning of the quicksand means nothing. Why am I allowing the wall to fall down? I should keep distance from my soul. Thanks for banging my head upon the fault line because my pitiful hole is exactly where I want to be. You make wearing the grudge like a crown sound like fun. The poly ticks aren’t turning my blood cold and bitter and I should continue to swallow the poison they feed me. I will keep my pieces scattered even though I know that they fit together. I will forget about crucifying the ego so that I could not resurrect to my true self and I will scratch spiraling out from my list. I must allow the shit to build up at the bottom and I should lie, cheat, and steal. Oh shoot! The water is coming in so I’m going to have to take what is mine and reach higher ground before it floods over and the undertow takes me in. I should stop reflecting peoples shadows back to them because their backs are always turning. Sometimes I feel like sticking the knife in so that people could see/feel. Anyways I’m going to stare like a zombie into the TV and then I’m going to pry my third eye open with some LSD.

[jevons]

Clichée for truth. ^^. and holy shit.


Zarathustra, ever heard the quote ''Nihilists are slaves to their own consciousness.''? Dostoevsky.

Think about it.

It doesn't have to suck. And even while it does suck, there are ways around it.

You could start with a new job.

[Zarathustra]

I am a sick man, I am an angry, I am an unattractive man, and I think there is something wrong with my liver.

There's my favorite quote from Dostoyeski (sp)

The entire point I was getting at seems to have been lost there. I'm not saying life sucks. I'm saying life doesn't suck >_>
I work my job because I love it. Finding the necessity of everything is the key to happiness.

And yes nihilists are slaves to themselves. I'd rather be my own master and slave than someone or something else. I am master of myself, judge, jurror, and executioner of my own truth.

But hell I'm happy here. Doesn't mean you have to be. Go find your true self on the other side of your shadow in th emiddle of the scattered pieces of this world you dispise so much.

And that song quote wall of text was a little corny.

[Zarathustra]

You keep preaching the philosophy of "reflection" so much which is a little off cause MJK is a two bit philosopher at best but anyway.

Just from this argument were having, from talking to people, from looking at the world. Isn't it painfully clear we are not all of one mind? There are many minds not one in this world.

I dont see how you can live a day in this life and even consider the idea that we are all one mind or why we would even want to be.

[jevons]

I'm not fucking preaching anything, I'm showing you as best i can where i am, because what i see when i wake up in the morning are people who are, for the most part afraid to move as one. And since every other species and genus on this rock seem to have unspoken agreements (consider the unlucky penguinoin the seal's mouth a tax they all pay to reality, sure life eats itself to survive, and a penguin or two will miss their little brother, but it's necessary.), i'm pretty sure it's them who are elevated above us, not the other way 'round.

I didn't loose your point, mine contradicts yours. So we can stay here until we're old and grey, or you can take a look at what i have said, read Medusa's posts (because she knows what she's talking about), and maybe find a way to let your guard down a little.
I am not trying to preach, i know i can come off like that. I am trying to share.

The me from 4 years ago would kick my ass for saying that. But who cares, fuck that guy.

[Zarathustra]

Clichée for truth. ^^. and holy shit.


Zarathustra, ever heard the quote ''Nihilists are slaves to their own consciousness.''? Dostoevsky.

Think about it.

It doesn't have to suck. And even while it does suck, there are ways around it.

You could start with a new job.

See there's your problem. You have to accept that the "suck" in life is necessary.
Let me ask you something. To what do you owe this disgust you feel and this need to unify (whatever the hell that means I still dont know and I dont think you do either >_>) and "spiral out" (again whatever the hell you think that means)? You owe to your body and to this earth. The present state of the world gave you the motivation to create a different world and you must recognize the necessity of the world as it is even in your own philosophy.

The world will change someday. And someday it will change from that change. The only reason you apreciate this philosophy you believe in is because youve lived through something you dont believe in.

Did you ever stop to wonder what would happen if the world stayed like you wanted it forever? You couldnt apreciate it anymore. It's the sadness that lets us know what joy is. It's the war that lets us know peace. You cant remove either one. There are both necessities to life.

Understanding how interwoven ever aspect of life is, is the most meaningful revelation you can have.

Allow me to quote Goethe: "What other purpose good the universe wish to fulfill other than when one day, a happy man involuntarily rejoices in his own existence."

Happiness is the root motivation behind every human action. If it takes the spirits of the entire universe to meld into and just chill for eternity to make you happy, well then ok whatever. I'll wager that wouldnt make you happy but my point is. Create the world you want to live in. But understand that not everyone wants to live in your world. There are many minds at work here. Not just your own.

[jevons]

If i could let myself, i'd pity you.

I have never once in my life said spiral out, it is a reference to how things grow that i understand, not preach.
Happiness is not the fucking target.
Things always change.

quote:
Understanding how interwoven ever aspect of life is, is the most meaningful revelation you can have.
end quote.

Despite the spelling, how is that any different from what i have been saying?

Things ascend at right angles, just like the fibonnaci sequence has told us for years. If you put those numbers on a graph, you would have a perfect spiral.
Everything at right angles.


And i've never come off as a ''live in my own head'' kind of guy.
You're not going to twist this around on me.



Your thoughts on consciousness need a rewrite, they are conrtradictory.

I don't give a flying shit what you do, but don't go trying to throw shit in my face.

[Zarathustra]

I'm not fucking preaching anything, I'm showing you as best i can where i am, because what i see when i wake up in the morning are people who are, for the most part afraid to move as one. And since every other species and genus on this rock seem to have unspoken agreements (consider the unlucky penguinoin the seal's mouth a tax they all pay to reality, sure life eats itself to survive, and a penguin or two will miss their little brother, but it's necessary.), i'm pretty sure it's them who are elevated above us, not the other way 'round.

I didn't loose your point, mine contradicts yours. So we can stay here until we're old and grey, or you can take a look at what i have said, read Medusa's posts (because she knows what she's talking about), and maybe find a way to let your guard down a little.
I am not trying to preach, i know i can come off like that. I am trying to share.

The me from 4 years ago would kick my ass for saying that. But who cares, fuck that guy.

Fine let me share then. my life has made me bitter and beligerent and I dotn exactly like to let my guard done, but heres an attempt.

My favorite thing you said was about the penguins. It's interesting to watch how different kinds of animals live. A mountain lion lives a solitary life of hunting. Whereas penguins live as a rather large society in peace.\

And your real question is why cant we live a simple life like the penguins. Well heres my attempt at an answer. different animals have different "gifts" if you will. A tiger was given fangs. A giraffe a long neck, a penguin a body capable of surviving in the cold. Penguins can live in harsh enviorornments with reletive ease. There lives consist of nothing more than eating and having sex. Simple indeed.

Human's gift however is different. We are born naked in every sense of the word. Our bodies are weak compared to other animals. Our digestive system is incapable of processing the same foods as animals (try to eat an uncooked dead cow and see what happens >_>). We dont have fangs and we dont have claws. From a distance it seems like we are at the body of the food chain.

But were not. Our gift was one of inginuity. Of thinking of more complex ways of life than the other animals. We think on levels I'm not sure they are capable of. They mate, eat, hunt, and thats all they do. Survive is all they do. We do more than that. We strive to find the answer to every riddle, to find something more to life than just the ease, of having sex and eating.

It's because of our higher mode of thinking that we fight amongst ourselves, because we as humans have different ideas. There are no renegade monkeys. No penguins have fights in the streets because they dont have an idea deeper than mate and feed.

Now if thats the life you want then do what you have to do to acheive that.

I on the other hand am both happy and proud of the fact that I have found my own truth in the world. And I'm glad that others have found there own too cause we can argue over it. And im not ashamed or sad that we argue because I like argueing and Im not ashamed to admit it.

There that was me opening up >_>

[Zarathustra]

If i could let myself, i'd pity you.

I have never once in my life said spiral out, it is a reference to how things grow that i understand, not preach.
Happiness is not the fucking target.
Things always change.

quote:
Understanding how interwoven ever aspect of life is, is the most meaningful revelation you can have.
end quote.

Despite the spelling, how is that any different from what i have been saying?

Things ascend at right angles, just like the fibonnaci sequence has told us for years. If you put those numbers on a graph, you would have a perfect spiral.
Everything at right angles.


And i've never come off as a ''live in my own head'' kind of guy.
You're not going to twist this around on me.



Your thoughts on consciousness need a rewrite, they are conrtradictory.

I don't give a flying shit what you do, but don't go trying to throw shit in my face.


The reflection and spiral out comments were directed at the other guy >_>

All I'm questioning from you is your wish for humanity to move as one mind. I would like to understand why because I dont feel the same way. Not trying to throw shit your way. Just trying to understand the reasoning behind the philosophy if you will

[boccaccio]

i guess it's very clear why Brett Easton Ellis opened his book 'Less Than Zero' with "people are afraid to merge on the freeway".. don't you all agree?

[jevons]

I know, and that's what's killing me. All we have to do is realise we ARE thinking the same thoughts, but our fucking pithy comprehension of spoken language is tainting it in every way.
For every one person like Medusa, where we find we're on similar pages, i'll always find a hundred conversations like this that are unnerving, difficult and damn near impossible to resolve.

We don't need long necks, or claws. We have the thumbs. We win.

It's a case of recognition, and it won't be easy.
I have to truly say, with complete trust, that what you want is, and always will be, what i want. We are a flock. And if every bird in the flock all has different concepts of North, they'll never go anywhere but away from each other.

Thisa is, admittedly, a more complex flock, by far, than, say, swallows.

These ''higher'' modes of thinking are degredations of purer thought. So long as there is ''my'' there is no ''Us.'' And we're drifting farther and farther away. So much so that (what i figure) we are actually going to have to make a split of some kind, where those who refuse unity will be lost, body and whatever else there is. This is not an easy thing to comprehend, since those people are, incidentally the same as those who will make it through. The only difference is how they see things: perspective.

It is how you view a war that makes it bad, not the war itself.
It is how you cook the chicken that makes it respectful, the chicken itself is not inclined to tell you it deserves respect.

So, basically, respect the cock.

[jevons]

i guess it's very clear why Brett Easton Ellis opened his book 'Less Than Zero' with "people are afraid to merge on the freeway".. don't you all agree?

Yes. Everything we do is a microcausmic disorder/representation for the things in our heads we know are true. And it sucks.

[]v[edusa]

ahahahaha god damn this guy is such I waste of my time. I'm not going to even bother reading the last few posts that he made.

Talking to him is like talking to the back of someones head. dont even bother jevons.

[jevons]

I have been trying to get past that lately. I don't want to be bitter, resentful, tell-the-kids-to-kill-themselves jack anymore.

If he writes, i'll reply.

But now, i'm going to go out in public.

You heard me. I want to see if i can go an evening (5 hours) without thinking a single thought in words. I will drown out all conversations on the bus, i will not speak except to order beer (drink Grasshopper, best wheat beer ever), and i want to see if it keeps me stable.
I think it's a great idea.
I'll probably get into more fights.

''Hold me close ah, Tiny Dancer. Count the headlights on the highway....''

[Zarathustra]

I think what is scarying me is losing individuality. I believe it's good to keep the "my" as you put it. I think the real goal is, as a species, to think in terms of "us" while maintaining the "my".

I dont believe thats possible on a world wide or universal scale but perhaps on a national. There will always be someone born that disagrees.

Part of the thing that makes it difficult today is we live in an era where nations are no longer governed by creeds and values. You have people of every value system living next to each other.

I think what really causes the hate is the idea that our "truths" are true in an absolute sense. I think the concept of the biblical God or a god like allah have twisted people into killing over their "truth". If the mind of the world can be opened to where they realize that their own mind is the final judge of truth, we could live in a world where people still have issues between each others values BUT, since theyve realized it's themselves that are making the values true, they could basically debate with each other on why they feel the way they do.

You wont ever unify the world on one moral code. the real hope is to unify people into thinking as a species regardless of moral standing.

In lay man's terms. To disagree, but not hate each other, for seeing the world differently.

To me that is this unity between the unified reality and this dualistic one. A melding of unity and segragation (sp >.>) into something that hasnt been seen on earth yet. To me that is the goal. Where humans can keep their individuality while thinking as a whole at the same time.

And let me go ahead and apologize for being such an asshole. I'm a bitter,angry man. Except my apalogy both jevons and IIludava (sp >.>) if you would.

I think we actually do agree but were saying it differently.

[Zarathustra]

wow that apology was a big step for me lol.

[Zarathustra]

To say it in a more coherent way. To still maintain our varying convictions, but not hate each other for thinking differently. I myself am obviously guilty of this. But with time perhaps both me and the world can change.

[Rakzis]

I agree, that was a very good post zarathustra