H. stands for.......

[Vpaah]

evening chaps, just an idea that sprung into my noggin while thrawling through one of my many quaint and expensive volumes of forgotten lore

im pretty sure this is it

for the longest time i wondered what H. stood for, the 'heroin' theory was clearly rubbish and i had come to the conclusion it, being about having children, stood for 'Homosapien' as the abrv of homosapien in medical texts is often H.

But this still really didnt feel right, it then struck me
Chapter 8 Keoadh H (im not spending the time to get those esoteric characters now)
of crowley's book of lies

for the meaning of the text you'll have to look it up because it is open to interpretation (cheers Al) from many different vantage points but it does (slightly) relate to the lyrics

also
the chapter (called Stepped horsehair) referes to semen and 'the snake'

'turning my piss to wine' is obviously a reference to semen and the snake in the song, before taken as the Hindu snake, the knowledge bringer i propose we take as (as mentioned in book of lies) the egyptian snake, the glyph for which represents Semen,

TAA DAA!

now please feel free to rip my lovely theory apart

.Gynomancer.

[Bogart]

I'm pretty sure it is about his son whose name is Devo H. I believe.

[cerebus]

evening chaps, just an idea that sprung into my noggin while thrawling through one of my many quaint and expensive volumes of forgotten lore

im pretty sure this is it

for the longest time i wondered what H. stood for, the 'heroin' theory was clearly rubbish and i had come to the conclusion it, being about having children, stood for 'Homosapien' as the abrv of homosapien in medical texts is often H.

But this still really didnt feel right, it then struck me
Chapter 8 Keoadh H (im not spending the time to get those esoteric characters now)
of crowley's book of lies

for the meaning of the text you'll have to look it up because it is open to interpretation (cheers Al) from many different vantage points but it does (slightly) relate to the lyrics

also
the chapter (called Stepped horsehair) referes to semen and 'the snake'

'turning my piss to wine' is obviously a reference to semen and the snake in the song, before taken as the Hindu snake, the knowledge bringer i propose we take as (as mentioned in book of lies) the egyptian snake, the glyph for which represents Semen,

TAA DAA!

now please feel free to rip my lovely theory apart

.Gynomancer.

What made you dismiss the heroin theory as complete rubbish?

[Vpaah]

cos what the hell? heroin?

[Inner_Eulogy]

I'm pretty sure it is about his son whose name is Devo H. I believe.

Not to mention he's already said this live at at show before playing the song...some people are just never satisfied with the simple truth though

[DoveLady]

Wait....so what his son is "Considerately killing" him?

[eataduck]

devo is either a really cool name or really bad.I havent decided yet

tired-need sleep,will give no further thought.
the walrus was paul

[resonance.]

hydrogen

[Inner_Eulogy]

Wait....so what his son is "Considerately killing" him?

Yes, considerately killing the shadow of Maynard - his negative temptations/influences/emotional barriers. Breaking down his pre-meditated disposition to be "manly" and not cry. Learning that he "could've cried, should've cried then". This song probably makes the most sense to me of all being somewhat a non-emotional human being most my life or at least in some way disconnected and when my first born child came into this world it forced me to evolve my emotions (step through my shadow) and open up myself to become emotionally vunerable for my son. If you are familiar with the Carl Jung references in the lyrics and you tie them into what I just said and the fact that Maynard has already stated that's what the song is about, there need be no more debate.

[this.anna]

Yes, considerately killing the shadow of Maynard - his negative temptations/influences/emotional barriers. Breaking down his pre-meditated disposition to be "manly" and not cry. Learning that he "could've cried, should've cried then". This song probably makes the most sense to me of all being somewhat a non-emotional human being most my life or at least in some way disconnected and when my first born child came into this world it forced me to evolve my emotions (step through my shadow) and open up myself to become emotionally vunerable for my son. If you are familiar with the Carl Jung references in the lyrics and you tie them into what I just said and the fact that Maynard has already stated that's what the song is about, there need be no more debate.

Nicely put. I've never heard him say it was about his son. This makes the song even better in my opinion.

[paraflux]

Maynard has also stated that certain songs were about other ridiculous things. Stop trying to think we know everything coming from his mouth, because we dont. What matters, what has always mattered, is what it means to us.

[]v[edusa]

Yes, considerately killing the shadow of Maynard - his negative temptations/influences/emotional barriers. Breaking down his pre-meditated disposition to be "manly" and not cry. Learning that he "could've cried, should've cried then". This song probably makes the most sense to me of all being somewhat a non-emotional human being most my life or at least in some way disconnected and when my first born child came into this world it forced me to evolve my emotions (step through my shadow) and open up myself to become emotionally vunerable for my son. If you are familiar with the Carl Jung references in the lyrics and you tie them into what I just said and the fact that Maynard has already stated that's what the song is about, there need be no more debate.

i dont think its the shadow that is considerately being killed. It's definately killing certain restrictions keeping him from becoming conscious of the shadow side but the shadow can not be killed, you can only become more conscious of the dark aspects of it.

There is a lot more to this song then just the shadow.

I think I remember them saying that H. standed for "half empty or half full" too right? The snake is actually represented as half light and half dark. It symbolizes the yin and the yang, the anima and the animus. Most of all it shows that the two opposites are not in conflict with each other.

Then there is the symbol of the snake eating its tail. This unites the two opposites, the conscious and the unconcious mind. This is also a symbol for alchemy which explains why in the song the snake is trying to turn his piss into wine.

What else does the snake symbolize? There is Caduceus and Kundalini. Caduceus has the two snakes in the bottom twirling around a staff to the wings at the top. Again, each snake is either the yin or the yang. Could "both" in "they're both totally void of hate" be the two snakes in Caduceus? The snakes cross over each chakra until they unite at the crown chakra. The dark side is just as important as the light side so it is important that the wall must fall down between the conscious mind and the things hidden within the shadow. It has to be done so both snakes or opposites can unite at the crown.

I see a lot of snake symbolism in this song. I also see this song more then about his child changing him, but is helping him find the "child" from within, the divine child. Everyone has their own view of this song, unfortunately my view of H. is totally opposite to how others see it...

[Sivart9876]

I don't know... I think Inner_Eulogy is right about the "conciderately killing me" thing, but for some reason, it kinda smacks of Oedipal complex. I mean Jung did make references to the snake as a aspect of one of his archtypes. There is probably way more to this than I am saying, but i am too lazy to go back and look back through my books.

What does everyone think?

[]v[edusa]

Yes, the snake has been symbolized with the shadow. I'm just talking about what the snake is doing to considerately kill the wall between the conscious mind and the shadow. Uniting the opposites.

"The ouroboros [the snake eating its tail] is a dramatic symbol for the integration and assimilation of the opposite, i.e. of the shadow. This 'feed-back' process is at the same time a symbol of immortality, since it is said of the uroboros that he slays himself and brings himself to life, fertilises himself and gives birth to himself. He symbolises the One, who proceeds from the clash of opposites, and he therefore constitutes the secret of the prima materia which [...] unquestionably stems from man's unconscious'." (Collected Works, Vol. 14 para.513)


EDIT: I dont know... maybe I am screwing something up, I'm pretty sure I read my Jung books correctly but sometimes his stuff does go over my head. If you want you can try helping us out by opening up your jung books and going over them again.

[Maz46&2]

As someone mentioned before, Maynard's son's name is Devo H. Keenan. The "H" is his complete middle name. Maynard's real name as per this sites biography section is "James Herbert Keenan" i.e. "Jimmy" so it stands to reason that is where the "H" in Devo H. came from. Judging by songs like Forty-Six & 2 and Ænima the use of Jungian archetypes may apply to this song pertaining to the snake as mentioned by |||v|||edusa. The snake is the "force" or "negative influence" in Maynard's life. To boil it down, the snake is tempting Maynard to succomb to some kind of abuse (directed towards himself and/or others). When he looks into his son's eyes he drops his emotinal defenses "the walls came down". With his son's love the "snake is drown". I also conjectured that this is about his son because of the line "what's coming through is alive", I interpreted that as his son being born.

This quote is from Maynard, he said this at a show 11/23/96.

"So, any of you ever watch those Warner Bros cartoons? Sometimes there's that one where the guy is having trouble making a decision; he's got an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other. Seems pretty obvious right? Usually the angel is the one that's trying to give the good advice, devil's supposed to be giving bad advice and trying to get him to do what is going to be bad for him. It's not always that simple though, most times their not really angels or devils, they are just friends giving you advice, looking out for your best interest but not really understanding what is going to be best for you, so, it comes down to you. You need to make a decision yourself. This song is called H."

And this was said 8/6/97:

"This may sound like a goofy question but it is a serious one. How many of you got children? Or say, like a really young brother or sister? It changes you doesn't it? Eyes open wide. This song goes out to my son who just turned two yesterday & his mother. This song is called H."

Both quotes are from http://www.collectiveunconscious.org

[the_milkman]

judging from the fact that they released an EP by the name of "Opiate".. and H. being a common name for heroin.. im pretty much sure that there is a connection, to dismiss that as utter garbage is just foolish.

[Sivart9876]

lllvllledusa, you are on the money with a lot of the things. The snake is tantamount to the guardian of the underworld (ie your sub-conscious). It would seem that what you said about immortality also makes sense. If MJK is indeed talking about this son, then like many parents, he could view a child as symbolic immorality.

This song, as was mentioned before, seems to be about MJK’s deconstruction of those pesky sub-conscious walls (and habits) that we all have but hardly ever work on consciously - because most of us aren’t that introspective. Knowing Maynard (how guarded and defensive he is sometimes) I would assume that this song speaks about his fear of vulnerability: vulnerability to the depth of his emotions, vulnerability to the acceptance of his own mortality, and vulnerability to the fact that he feels such a strong connection to someone.

I would bet you Maynard has very few close relationships because of these trust issues: he doesn't want to be betrayed. So, this ‘letting-in’ of a new person must have been tough for him.

To tie this all together, I think the birth of his son initiated the destruction of the old, distrusting Maynard and the rebuilding of a kinder, gentler Maynard. The Oedipal reference may have just been inadvertent.

As for the heroin reference... there are similarities between substance-abuse issues and defense-mechanism issues. Both are cycles that are difficult to break, and both can convey the sense of desperation and self-denigrating intimated to in this song. So… take the song whatever way you want, I guess. Just a suggestion, though: try not to get fixated on something that amounts to conjecture. Changing an idea is much easier that changing a belief.

[Inner_Eulogy]

judging from the fact that they released an EP by the name of "Opiate".. and H. being a common name for heroin.. im pretty much sure that there is a connection, to dismiss that as utter garbage is just foolish.

Opiate had nothing to do with drugs. It was only a metaphorical reference to the "opiate of the masses" regarding organized religions use of religion for self gain.

[]v[edusa]

The snake is the "force" or "negative influence" in Maynard's life.

I'm a bit upset that I cant find my snake info right now but I think it was Christianity that made the snake an evil symbol. Which I really dont understand because I think the snake in genesis did mankind a favour and was even more truthful then God by saying that adam and eve "will not surely die" if they ate the fruit. God was the one that lied saying they were going to die if they ate the fruit, but they didn't. The snake opened their eyes and allowed them to be like God knowing good and evil. The snake introduced free will. evil??? ptthhh.

Anyways, Many other religions didnt see the snake as something bad.

Ok. there are a few things to look at:

"But what's singing songs is a snake
Looking to turn this piss to wine."

the snake is doing a favour for him. Hes going to turn those bad times into good times.

The snake is void of hate.

"The snake behind me hisses
What my damage could have been."

It seems like every time the snake hisses he is speaking. So the snake is telling him what his damage could have been,

"Venomous voice, tempts me,
Drains me, bleeds me"

"The snake's venom is associated with the chemicals of plants and fungi that have the power to either heal, poison or provide expanded consciousness (and even the elixir of life and immortality) through divine intoxication."

"And the snake is drowned"

I dont think it could be bad. It doesnt mean hes dead from drowning in water. The yogi used to drown their chakras as in dissolve all bodily attachment. Maybe its some sort of release, like a cleansing. I dont know. think about it.

I don't think the snake is doing anything bad.

lllvllledusa, you are on the money with a lot of the things. The snake is tantamount to the guardian of the underworld (ie your sub-conscious). It would seem that what you said about immortality also makes sense. If MJK is indeed talking about this son, then like many parents, he could view a child as symbolic immorality.

This song, as was mentioned before, seems to be about MJK’s deconstruction of those pesky sub-conscious walls (and habits) that we all have but hardly ever work on consciously - because most of us aren’t that introspective. Knowing Maynard (how guarded and defensive he is sometimes) I would assume that this song speaks about his fear of vulnerability: vulnerability to the depth of his emotions, vulnerability to the acceptance of his own mortality, and vulnerability to the fact that he feels such a strong connection to someone.

I would bet you Maynard has very few close relationships because of these trust issues: he doesn't want to be betrayed. So, this ‘letting-in’ of a new person must have been tough for him.

To tie this all together, I think the birth of his son initiated the destruction of the old, distrusting Maynard and the rebuilding of a kinder, gentler Maynard. The Oedipal reference may have just been inadvertent.



Yes!! exactly!

I really see the big part of this album being about the inner child. Devo is pure in his eyes, his inner child is not hiding. Its like an eye opener maybe, like its helping him awaken his inner child again.

Maynards inner child has been wounded from many bad experiences through out his life.

This song reminds me quite a bit about jimmy cause jimmy is about finding his inner child and healing all the wounds of his inner child. I made a thread about it that better explains it called, "Sequel to Prison Sex".

Can't you see this album being different from the others? It's almost child like with some jokes here and there. They are just kids playing this album. They are trying to let their inner chillds out into the album.


Opiate had nothing to do with drugs. It was only a metaphorical reference to the "opiate of the masses" regarding organized religions use of religion for self gain.

Yah,... if H. was about Heroin then wouldn't that look a little weird on Devo's part since Maynard already said the song's name came from Devos middle name? Besides, the songs called "H." not "H". I dont think I've ever seen heroin written down as "H.".

......

OHH and before I forget.

"I could have cried then.
I should have cried then."

Is this a connection to Lachrymology?

[Inner_Eulogy]

OHH and before I forget.

"I could have cried then.
I should have cried then."

Is this a connection to Lachrymology?

Possibly, I've simply always thought of it as a reference to him having a hard time crying prior to his son being born and he regrets having had so many emotional barriers. The birth of his son forced him to become vunerable once again, it was a total relase for him and he thought back to all the times he could've cried, should've cried".

[]v[edusa]

Possibly, I've simply always thought of it as a reference to him having a hard time crying prior to his son being born and he regrets having had so many emotional barriers. The birth of his son forced him to become vunerable once again, it was a total relase for him and he thought back to all the times he could've cried, should've cried".

Well yes, thats exactly it.

Lachrymology had it that you cant fully apprieciate pleasure without experiencing pain. Its balancing the light and the dark because both are important and you shouldn't be polarized. So many people hold back or resist their pain, they make a "wall", but that causes more problems. It is suffering that enables our development and our greater appreciation of new found heights. When one survives pain, that person must remember to remain aware of pain they have suffered and allow that pain to teach them for all that its worth... You unite the dark and the light by breaking through that wall and your living a better life.... something around there.

Light and Dark are equal forces. Neither one is good or bad. It's only bad when you are leaning on one side or the other.

[mourningxair]

I'm a bit upset that I cant find my snake info right now but I think it was Christianity that made the snake an evil symbol. Which I really dont understand because I think the snake in genesis did mankind a favour and was even more truthful then God by saying that adam and eve "will not surely die" if they ate the fruit. God was the one that lied saying they were going to die if they ate the fruit, but they didn't. The snake opened their eyes and allowed them to be like God knowing good and evil. The snake introduced free will. evil??? ptthhh.

Anyways, Many other religions didnt see the snake as something bad.

Ok. there are a few things to look at:

"But what's singing songs is a snake
Looking to turn this piss to wine."

the snake is doing a favour for him. Hes going to turn those bad times into good times.

The snake is void of hate.

"The snake behind me hisses
What my damage could have been."

It seems like every time the snake hisses he is speaking. So the snake is telling him what his damage could have been,

"Venomous voice, tempts me,
Drains me, bleeds me"

"The snake's venom is associated with the chemicals of plants and fungi that have the power to either heal, poison or provide expanded consciousness (and even the elixir of life and immortality) through divine intoxication."

"And the snake is drowned"

I dont think it could be bad. It doesnt mean hes dead from drowning in water. The yogi used to drown their chakras as in dissolve all bodily attachment. Maybe its some sort of release, like a cleansing. I dont know. think about it.

I don't think the snake is doing anything bad.



Yes!! exactly!

I really see the big part of this album being about the inner child. Devo is pure in his eyes, his inner child is not hiding. Its like an eye opener maybe, like its helping him awaken his inner child again.

Maynards inner child has been wounded from many bad experiences through out his life.

This song reminds me quite a bit about jimmy cause jimmy is about finding his inner child and healing all the wounds of his inner child. I made a thread about it that better explains it called, "Sequel to Prison Sex".

Can't you see this album being different from the others? It's almost child like with some jokes here and there. They are just kids playing this album. They are trying to let their inner chillds out into the album.




Yah,... if H. was about Heroin then wouldn't that look a little weird on Devo's part since Maynard already said the song's name came from Devos middle name? Besides, the songs called "H." not "H". I dont think I've ever seen heroin written down as "H.".

......

OHH and before I forget.

"I could have cried then.
I should have cried then."

Is this a connection to Lachrymology?


The first thing I noticed when I first heard this song was a good amount of Biblical referances. Turning piss to wine in referance to Jesus' first miracle of turning water to wine at a wedding, the snake which is always a symbol of Satan (in Christianity at least). I have a hard time believing the snake is supposed to stand for something good.

"What my damage could have been". It seems like more of a temptation that he chose not to give into rather than a warning. "And as the snake is drowned" - Getting rid of a negative influence.

I think the line that sold me on the son theory was, "What's holding up is a mirror". The subject in question is obviously very important to him, but I would imagine a child as being a kind of extension of yourself, someone affected strongly by your influences and who will turn into a reflection of you. Realizing that would probably make most people want to 'drown the snake' and rid themselves of any kind of negativity and temptation.

Ugh. I just wanted to point out the snake thing. I digress! Pardon.

PEACE

[jevons]

What made you dismiss the heroin theory as complete rubbish?

When a band has such a vast array of knowledge and perspectives from which to draw, we can't discount anything.

Devo H.
Human.
Heroine.
The pure symbolic quality of the letter ''H".

The song is ''about'' the changes in Maynard's life concurrent with the birth of his son; Devo helped him break down old, some might say predispositional aspects of himself.
Maynard is dying, in a sense.
The religious imagery can be found all over the place, but if there is anything truly tempting in this life, it is the past, the darkest places of the past, since they are easier to attatch to than a new experience is to grow.
It is a story of ''Human''. Or Homosapiens, or whatever, since we all must go through a very similar trial in life if we are to do anything beyond becoming a carbon copy of the past and a model for the future.
It is a story of Half-Full, the symbol. The future (of Maynard and Devo) can be whatever he sees it to be, and he is choosing half-full (there's a look in your eyes, my fear begins to fade, recalling all of the times i should have cried then...)
The heroine idea may not be the ''intended'' title of the song, but i feel it compliments the others nicely, if properly regarded.



And, as far as the ''snake is drowned'' bit goes, i think we all have to consider the fact that the water in undertow was primarily negative, while this water seems electric, spiritual, working with Maynard rather than drowning him (and society).

*cough*

[]v[edusa]

The first thing I noticed when I first heard this song was a good amount of Biblical referances. Turning piss to wine in referance to Jesus' first miracle of turning water to wine at a wedding, the snake which is always a symbol of Satan (in Christianity at least). I have a hard time believing the snake is supposed to stand for something good.

"What my damage could have been". It seems like more of a temptation that he chose not to give into rather than a warning. "And as the snake is drowned" - Getting rid of a negative influence.

I think the line that sold me on the son theory was, "What's holding up is a mirror". The subject in question is obviously very important to him, but I would imagine a child as being a kind of extension of yourself, someone affected strongly by your influences and who will turn into a reflection of you. Realizing that would probably make most people want to 'drown the snake' and rid themselves of any kind of negativity and temptation.

Ugh. I just wanted to point out the snake thing. I digress! Pardon.

PEACE

Search it up. I think Christians were pretty much the only ones that compared the snake with satan. Maynard has talked in interviews about the dark stuff being just as important as the light stuff.

heres a good site on the Serpent http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/5789/serpent.htm

[jevons]

That is the Elton John interview? That's the one that hypnotised my brother when he was 12. He loved it.
Now i love it, too.
Thanks, gorgeous.

[]v[edusa]

That is the Elton John interview? That's the one that hypnotised my brother when he was 12. He loved it.
Now i love it, too.
Thanks, gorgeous.

What?

[jevons]

The one where Maynard has his Elton John glasses on?
Muchmusic?
It had a profound effect on my brother when he was younger.
I never saw it.
Now i have.
So i was thanking you while commenting on your appearance.

K?

[]v[edusa]

The one where Maynard has his Elton John glasses on?
Muchmusic?
It had a profound effect on my brother when he was younger.
I never saw it.
Now i have.
So i was thanking you while commenting on your appearance.

K?

oohhh ok. kickass. Speaking of interviews heres the interview where hes saying that the ugly stuff is just as important as the beautiful stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhzXT6awGSg

[jevons]

So, i present you with a choice: either die in the vaccuum of space, or, tell me what you thought of my analysis^^^^^^^^^^^.

[mourningxair]

Search it up. I think Christians were pretty much the only ones that compared the snake with satan. Maynard has talked in interviews about the dark stuff being just as important as the light stuff.

heres a good site on the Serpent http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/5789/serpent.htm



Hm, very interesting. I guess context just led me to accept the Christian view of the snake as the one being used in the song. It just makes more sense to me that way. I guess we'll never know for sure.

Thanks for the article, though. It's all totally new information to me.

[Inner_Eulogy]

lllvllledusa, you are on the money with a lot of the things. The snake is tantamount to the guardian of the underworld (ie your sub-conscious). It would seem that what you said about immortality also makes sense. If MJK is indeed talking about this son, then like many parents, he could view a child as symbolic immorality.

This song, as was mentioned before, seems to be about MJK’s deconstruction of those pesky sub-conscious walls (and habits) that we all have but hardly ever work on consciously - because most of us aren’t that introspective. Knowing Maynard (how guarded and defensive he is sometimes) I would assume that this song speaks about his fear of vulnerability: vulnerability to the depth of his emotions, vulnerability to the acceptance of his own mortality, and vulnerability to the fact that he feels such a strong connection to someone.

I would bet you Maynard has very few close relationships because of these trust issues: he doesn't want to be betrayed. So, this ‘letting-in’ of a new person must have been tough for him.

To tie this all together, I think the birth of his son initiated the destruction of the old, distrusting Maynard and the rebuilding of a kinder, gentler Maynard. The Oedipal reference may have just been inadvertent.

I've been saying this for god knows how long.

[Inner_Eulogy]

The first thing I noticed when I first heard this song was a good amount of Biblical referances. Turning piss to wine in referance to Jesus' first miracle of turning water to wine at a wedding, the snake which is always a symbol of Satan (in Christianity at least). I have a hard time believing the snake is supposed to stand for something good.

"What my damage could have been". It seems like more of a temptation that he chose not to give into rather than a warning. "And as the snake is drowned" - Getting rid of a negative influence.

I think the line that sold me on the son theory was, "What's holding up is a mirror". The subject in question is obviously very important to him, but I would imagine a child as being a kind of extension of yourself, someone affected strongly by your influences and who will turn into a reflection of you. Realizing that would probably make most people want to 'drown the snake' and rid themselves of any kind of negativity and temptation.

Ugh. I just wanted to point out the snake thing. I digress! Pardon.

PEACE

I'd have to agree that the snake was playing the role of negative. The snake's there telling him hey man, I can turn that piss into wine. It's like you always see in movies where somebody sells their soul for something but the devil takes back what he gave you ten-fold. The snake represents the negative temptations I believe. Not that the snake itself is evil (void of hate) it just is what it is.

[Inner_Eulogy]

And, as far as the ''snake is drowned'' bit goes, i think we all have to consider the fact that the water in undertow was primarily negative, while this water seems electric, spiritual, working with Maynard rather than drowning him (and society).

*cough*

"Venomous voice, tempts me,
Drains me, bleeds me,
Leaves me cracked and empty."

That quote right there should be enough to realize the snake is not a positive influence but as I just stated a moment ago, a negative one.

"And the snake is drowned and
As I look in his eyes,
My fear begins to fade
Recalling all of those times.

I could have cried then.
I should have cried then.

And as the walls come down and
As I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade
Recalling all of the times
I have died
and will die.
It's all right.
I don't mind. "

As the snake is drowned, as he overcomes these negative temptations..he looks them in the eye and says "I am DONE with you, I am no longer afraid of you and you will no longer run my life for me" He recalls all the times he should've crucified his ego and cried in order to heal. As the emotional walls broke down, he knows that this will be hard, he will die many deaths and go through a lot of healing pain but it's ok, he doesn't mind...his son is his life (hence considerably killing him), days away the love of his son affects him. They are connected for they are one.

There's no way in hell anybody can tell me I'm wrong about this. Well, I suppose you could but, this is my story and I'm sticking to it.

[]v[edusa]

When a band has such a vast array of knowledge and perspectives from which to draw, we can't discount anything.

Devo H.
Human.
Heroine.
The pure symbolic quality of the letter ''H".

The song is ''about'' the changes in Maynard's life concurrent with the birth of his son; Devo helped him break down old, some might say predispositional aspects of himself.
Maynard is dying, in a sense.
The religious imagery can be found all over the place, but if there is anything truly tempting in this life, it is the past, the darkest places of the past, since they are easier to attatch to than a new experience is to grow.
It is a story of ''Human''. Or Homosapiens, or whatever, since we all must go through a very similar trial in life if we are to do anything beyond becoming a carbon copy of the past and a model for the future.
It is a story of Half-Full, the symbol. The future (of Maynard and Devo) can be whatever he sees it to be, and he is choosing half-full (there's a look in your eyes, my fear begins to fade, recalling all of the times i should have cried then...)
The heroine idea may not be the ''intended'' title of the song, but i feel it compliments the others nicely, if properly regarded.



And, as far as the ''snake is drowned'' bit goes, i think we all have to consider the fact that the water in undertow was primarily negative, while this water seems electric, spiritual, working with Maynard rather than drowning him (and society).

*cough*


Yes, well it is exactly the dark places in the past, like you say. Its all the wounds that he got as child. He just has to search in himself and face these old problems/issues stuck in him to cure himself. In order for him to connect with his child well enough he’s going to have to heal these scars from abuse before he becomes the abuser to Devo. To abuse I mean any type of abuse (mental, physical, etc).

I think the bite/venom of the snake is actually facing a fear or pain. If you get a bite on yourself that bite isn’t going to always be there. Eventually the bite will heal and you will be refreshed. If some sort of pain within yourself goes unnoticed then that pain will most likely stay without getting healed. The venom/bite can kill, but from death comes rebirth. The venom can also heal.

The only heroin connection I got out of this was the fact that Maynard was getting over fears, addictions, etc. Getting over Heroin can be just as hard as getting over your own personal problems/fears.

I think the “Snake is drowned” part could symbolize some sort of emotional or spiritual rebirth. Since Maynard had a fear of this “snake”, he no longer does now that he has faced it. It’s a transformation. Death and rebirth.

[jevons]

that's why i mentioned the water = spirit thaaang. The snake is a classical, biblical snake, wanting him to do things he won't do.

We all have these walls, these systems we have divined in order to survive., But the time comes when we need to chang, so this song is really about that: change is unavoidable and should be assisted and understood for personal well-being.
How sweet of Maynard to share.

[angelomorf]

...by my reading it is about the twelwth card of the taro , the hanged ...and its not maynards...someone else dictated... perhaps danny...

[Inner_Eulogy]

...by my reading it is about the twelwth card of the taro , the hanged ...and its not maynards...someone else dictated... perhaps danny...

Um, yeah....

[Eulogy33]

there are MANY, MANY interpretations of tool songs..and none of them are right/wrong. There is a live version of H. on youtube though, and when he says "i don't mind", it's simply orgasmic.

[angelomorf]

so you said something?but what?

[Inner_Eulogy]

there are MANY, MANY interpretations of tool songs..and none of them are right/wrong. There is a live version of H. on youtube though, and when he says "i don't mind", it's simply orgasmic.

And that's supposed to mean what exactly?

[Ghostwriter]

Wait....so what his son is "Considerately killing" him?

Ah Gad...

[Ghostwriter]

HOPE

[jpoling13]

OHH and before I forget.

"I could have cried then.
I should have cried then."

Is this a connection to Lachrymology?


I don't know about lachrymology.

"In the summer of 1948, Ronald P. Vincent, a crop-spray contractor, moved from Kansas to Hollywood after his wife had been dismembered in a bizarre snow plough accident. Inspired by the unrelenting pain he felt, Vincent penned his first and only book, 'A Joyful Guide to Lachrymology'"

Kinda funny that no one has actually seen this book and it is non-existent in the Library of Congress.

Ronald P. Vincent and L. Ron Hubbard. Both have a form of 'Ron" and an initial.

Do a search on lachrymology and you won't find anything that is not related to the band. I think it's all a big joke.

[Ghostwriter]

Wait....so what his son is "Considerately killing" him?

No, you have to think deeper than that. For example: Maynard's extreme love for his son may be killing him.

[]v[edusa]

I don't know about lachrymology.

"In the summer of 1948, Ronald P. Vincent, a crop-spray contractor, moved from Kansas to Hollywood after his wife had been dismembered in a bizarre snow plough accident. Inspired by the unrelenting pain he felt, Vincent penned his first and only book, 'A Joyful Guide to Lachrymology'"

Kinda funny that no one has actually seen this book and it is non-existent in the Library of Congress.

Ronald P. Vincent and L. Ron Hubbard. Both have a form of 'Ron" and an initial.

Do a search on lachrymology and you won't find anything that is not related to the band. I think it's all a big joke.

Yes I already know all that. I have no clue why they are joking around about it but the concept is not a bad one and Tool does show these ideas in so many of their songs. "The essential ideas behind Lachrymology are quite simple, the science teaches that a human cannot very well develop emotionally, mentally, or spiritually without the experience of pain"(Got that from a website).The whole idea behind Lachrymology is not new. Even carl jung talks a lot about it.

Here are a few quotes I found by carl jung on the importance of pain and how we should not hide from this pain, but instead face it, accept it, and treat it as important as all of the things that make you happy:

"A man who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has never overcome them."

"Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word happy would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness. It is far better take things as they come along with patience and equanimity."

"There is no coming to consciousness without pain."

"Understanding does not cure evil, but it is a definite help, inasmuch as one can cope with a comprehensible darkness."

"We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses."

"We deem those happy who from the experience of life have learnt to bear its ills without being overcome by them."


The line:

"I could have cried then.
I should have cried then."

is basically saying that he wishes that he didnt hold in and hide from his pain and emotions, instead he wishes that he just let all the pain out and accepted it while in his past so that he could have been closer to healing himself even more for the present time. Accepting the pain allowed him to become more conscious of his shadow and get closer to finding his true self.

Does it make sense? I'm tired.

[The Holy Gift]

i would like to disect the opening lines with u as a whole, instead of breaking them up.
wuts coming thru is alive
wuts holding up is a mirror
but wuts singing songs is a snake
and hes looking to turn my piss to wine
theyre both totally void of hate
but killing me just the same
the snake behind me hisses what my damage could have been
my blood before makes me open up my heart again
and i feel this coming over like a storm again, considerately

mk, now, wuts coming thru is alive - his son.
wuts holding up is a mirror - looking at his son is like looking in the mirror.
wuts singing songs is a snake, looking to turn his piss to wine - his negativity has appeared on his shoulder again, trying to get him to do his usual habit, shut in all feelings.
they are both totally void of hate, but killing him just the same - both his son (the positive influence) and the snake (the negative influence) have an agenda, but they are killing him equally, i.e. they both weigh on him equally, not 1 without the other.
the snake behind him hisses what his damage could have been - the snake is reminding him of all the bad things that have happend
his blood before him makes him open up his heart again - this is the line that ties it all together, by his blood, he means his bloodline, his son, the birth of his son has caused him to open up his heart again and forget his trust issues.
and he feels it coming over like a storm again, considerately - the feelings come rushing over him, considerately.

there u go, i think u were all trying to interpret it in too little of chunks, u need to look at the verse as a whole, instead of just deciphering 1 aspect of it.

[jpoling13]

Thanks lllvllledusa for those quotes. I'm not debunking the idea behind lachrymology. I think it makes a lot of sense. But at the same time, I think the story of behind it of how it came about is funny, don't you think?

Holy Grail, I like your interpretation.

[Lotus2thrdeye]

Perhaps this song has more to do with the weighing of possibilities. The two sides are the angel and devil one ur shoulder showing you the consequences of what you may choose. The days away considerately killing me might have more to due the conceince(or however u spell it) taking its toll on you after you have made ur decision. Just an idea!!!

[Ghostwriter]

some ideas: Bill HICKS, James HERBERT Keenan, Devo H.

[ahhnevermind]

this song is definitely, on the first level, about a romantic love.
in the past love has brought hurt, and yet its coming again, against the mind's best defenses. however, H. usually stands for heroin on its own, which gives a second level of interpretation to the lyrics.

[Inner_Eulogy]

i would like to disect the opening lines with u as a whole, instead of breaking them up.
wuts coming thru is alive
wuts holding up is a mirror
but wuts singing songs is a snake
and hes looking to turn my piss to wine
theyre both totally void of hate
but killing me just the same
the snake behind me hisses what my damage could have been
my blood before makes me open up my heart again
and i feel this coming over like a storm again, considerately

mk, now, wuts coming thru is alive - his son.
wuts holding up is a mirror - looking at his son is like looking in the mirror.
wuts singing songs is a snake, looking to turn his piss to wine - his negativity has appeared on his shoulder again, trying to get him to do his usual habit, shut in all feelings.
they are both totally void of hate, but killing him just the same - both his son (the positive influence) and the snake (the negative influence) have an agenda, but they are killing him equally, i.e. they both weigh on him equally, not 1 without the other.
the snake behind him hisses what his damage could have been - the snake is reminding him of all the bad things that have happend
his blood before him makes him open up his heart again - this is the line that ties it all together, by his blood, he means his bloodline, his son, the birth of his son has caused him to open up his heart again and forget his trust issues.
and he feels it coming over like a storm again, considerately - the feelings come rushing over him, considerately.

there u go, i think u were all trying to interpret it in too little of chunks, u need to look at the verse as a whole, instead of just deciphering 1 aspect of it.

Isn't basically the EXACT same thing I already said?

[RachJacob]

Maynard has also stated that certain songs were about other ridiculous things. Stop trying to think we know everything coming from his mouth, because we dont. What matters, what has always mattered, is what it means to us.

Agreed, however it feels as though you are prefacing that statement with negativity which will only turn people away. Psychology is a delicate understanding, and if you can understand where the person was when this beautiful metaphor was manifested, it furthers the unfolding process of the meaning.
I will end with this, I do not search for the originators experiences, I search for my own.

[The Holy Gift]

inner, if that is basically what you said, then i was simply reiterating it for effect, and throwing in some other stuff to really drive the point home. happy? D:

[conor moore]

jesus h. christ


there you go

[Inner_Eulogy]

inner, if that is basically what you said, then i was simply reiterating it for effect, and throwing in some other stuff to really drive the point home. happy? D:

Copycat! =-P

[Goat Boy]

Bill Hicks. The entire album is sort of a dedication to him. Eulogy is about him too.

[Ghostwriter]

Bill Hicks. The entire album is sort of a dedication to him. Eulogy is about him too.

I don't know about all of it, but I do see many tributes to him in the album.

[himog]

H.

Has anyone ever read the book Ceremonial Magic & the Power of Evocation by Joseph C. Lisiewski? His website is : 8thmatrixpress.com. In his book (Chapter 3 or 4) he covers 8 Axioms required by the operator to achieve full physical manifestation of the spirit envolved. In this case the operator works from the grimoire The Heptameron (H) which evokes the 7 aerial spirits of the days of the week. If you read this Chapter on the 8 Axioms then you will hear Maynard's lyrics come to life in his dicussion on the process and results from said evocation to physical manifestation of the spirit. I recommend this book and his others to anyone interested in the study of the Art and Science. I'm interested to hear from others who have read this book or has an idea to what I'm referring to here. Maynard?

[himog]

H.

Has anyone ever read the book Ceremonial Magic & the Power of Evocation by Joseph C. Lisiewski? His website is : 8thmatrixpress.com. In his book (Chapter 3 or 4) he covers 8 Axioms required by the operator to achieve full physical manifestation of the spirit envolved. In this case the operator works from the grimoire The Heptameron (H) which evokes the 7 aerial spirits of the days of the week. If you read this Chapter on the 8 Axioms then you will hear Maynard's lyrics come to life in his dicussion on the process and results from said evocation to physical manifestation of the spirit. I recommend this book and his others to anyone interested in the study of the Art and Science. I'm interested to hear from others who have read this book or has an idea to what I'm referring to here. Maynard?

[blood_wh0re]

H stands for heroin.
Everyone needs a hero.
By naming his son Devo H., Jimmy created a self-fulfilling prophecy...

his son saved him from himself.

[Inner_Eulogy]

H stands for heroin.
Everyone needs a hero.
By naming his son Devo H., Jimmy created a self-fulfilling prophecy...

his son saved him from himself.

His son's name is Devo H. because he took his father's first name (Herbert) as his middle name. That's quite common actually. His son's name is Devo Herbert Keenan, can't believe you all can't figure that one out. H is quite likely a combination of H. standing for his son's middle name as well as the play on half full/half empty. It could possibly even represent the effect Heroin has one a person or in other words metaphorically describing how he is so drawn and addicted to his love for his son that he knew he had to make a change as an individual to be the father he knew he wanted to be for his son. The song to me is a psychological description of Maynard going the the changes one goes through when they have a child. I've gone into more depth elsewhere in here.

'Nuff said

[mrskeenan]

His son's name is Devo H. because he took his father's first name (Herbert) as his middle name. That's quite common actually. His son's name is Devo Herbert Keenan, can't believe you all can't figure that one out. H is quite likely a combination of H. standing for his son's middle name as well as the play on half full/half empty. It could possibly even represent the effect Heroin has one a person or in other words metaphorically describing how he is so drawn and addicted to his love for his son that he knew he had to make a change as an individual to be the father he knew he wanted to be for his son. The song to me is a psychological description of Maynard going the the changes one goes through when they have a child. I've gone into more depth elsewhere in here.

'Nuff said

wait a second, you seem pretty knowledgeable , so don't get offended, it could simply be that you worded something a little tricky. you said devo took his father's first name...herbert, but that's not maynards first name his first name is james not herbert. his original whole name being james herbert keenan, maybe you meant first as in original, not litterally. ok, that being said, devo's middle name is just h. nothing more, just h., but once again don't get offended, i swear you can't say anything or express opinions around here without people getting all pissed.

[paraflux]

Nah, it's just that we're tired of people coming in and telling us what it's supposed to mean to us, instead of proposing an idea. Two completely different things.

[son_of_solomon]

In my opinion its not important what the song means to Maynard, what's important is what the song means to me. Not to sound like fortune cookie wisdom or anything but I believe this. Even if I discovered what the true meaning was it probably still wouldn't change my perception. He didn't write the song for ME he wrote it for himself, and i dont listen to it for him, I listen to it for me

[son_of_solomon]

Bill Hicks. The entire album is sort of a dedication to him. Eulogy is about him too.

I thought Eulogy was about JFK??

[RussianRoot]

i used to think it was only about his son, but now i honestly think H. is also about heroin.. H is the street name for heroin, like E is the street name for ecstasy.. i dont see how this interpretation is complete rubbish. in most addiction therapy sessions, they make you write a good-bye letter to the drug you were addicted to. hence, H.. the lyrics can easily be interpreted as an addiction.

"What's coming through is alive.
What's holding up is a mirror.
But what's singing songs is a snake
Looking to turn this piss to wine."

his son is "coming through". its a reflection of himself - mirror. but heroin/temptation is tempting him to turn the negative (piss) into a positive (wine) (or so he believes)..

"They're both totally void of hate,
But killing me just the same."

his son is killing his past self. heroin is killing him in the obvious way.

"Venomous voice, tempts me,
Drains me, bleeds me,
Leaves me cracked and empty.
Drags me down like some sweet gravity."

i think that this excerpt is pretty self-explanatory.

"The snake behind me hisses
What my damage could have been.
My blood before me begs me
Open up my heart again."

the numbing temptation explains the pain that he could have felt. his blood (birth of his son) begs him to open his heart again - consider new options, and become vulnerable again.

" And I feel this coming over like a storm again.

I am too connected to you to
Slip away, to fade away.
Days away I still feel you
Touching me, changing me,
And considerately killing me."

how addiction creeps up on you, and addicts are never 'healed' - regression is always a possibility. considerately killing me - thats pretty obvious

"Without the skin,
Beneath the storm,
Under these tears
The walls came down."

without his addiction, he has to deal with the cold hard reality of pain as an everyday occurrence. the walls come down - the limits of true life come back - his head is out of the clouds now.

"And the snake is drowned and
As I look in his eyes,
My fear begins to fade
Recalling all of those times.

I could have cried then.
I should have cried then."

hes successfully 'killed' his addiction and realizes he should have just dealt with the pain head on in the past instead of running away

"And as the walls come down and
As I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade
Recalling all of the times
I have died
and will die.
It's all right.
I don't mind."

as he looks at his son and his new limits are put up, he realizes how petty he used to be.

in the end though, it doesnt matter what maynard meant by this song. all that matters is your interpretation.

[JasonLang]

I believe this song is called H. as in Jesus H. (holy) Christ. Bear with me. In the song is mentioned the serpent/snake (Satan) which is the most base of creatures as it slithers as low as you can go sucking on the dust of all the rest of creation. Also, the serpent is the creature responsible for tempting Adam and Eve and causes the fall of mankind, much like the serpent is doing today. The other voice in the song that is "considerately killing me" (the small ego me) is the voice of God/Christ which will pull him upward toward his more divine nature if he just follows his will and rises above and crucifies the serpent's voice. I think Maynard's lyrics are a lot more 'Christian' than I've ever realized before. Not the bible thumping Christian that only shows up on Sunday and gives money, but the true Christian following God's true divine will. So many layers to their music, however, but this is where I'm at with it currently.

[Donttakeitsoserious]

Do a search on lachrymology and you won't find anything that is not related to the band. I think it's all a big joke.

This man has confirmed for us what we already knew PRAISE SCIENCE! "Lachrymology" is clearly a crock of shit, one of the band's more subversive jokes it would seem, considering how many people seem to believe it's real! Think about it, most of their songs have aggressive themes, at the same time, they love to fuck with the media, and with their fans. I think if anything "lachrymology" is a warning against following "religious" psychology trends. Seriously, the entire concept is neither enlightening nor well developed. Anger/sadness is cleansing, yeah we know!

[Donttakeitsoserious]

No seriously why is the "heroin theory" rubbish? Care to elaborate?

[iAMtheMA!]

lachrymology is really real

[Lackymacky]

No seriously why is the "heroin theory" rubbish? Care to elaborate?

can you elaborate on the validity of the heroin theory? not being a dick, im curious.

[AbsentCoder]

I think we can take some of Keenan’s own words about the song.

“So, any of you ever watched those Warner Bros. cartoons? Sometimes there's that one where that guy is having a tough time trying to make a decision. He's got an angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other. Seems pretty obvious, right? Usually it's the angel who is kind of the one trying to give him the good advice while the devil is trying to get him to do what's bad for him. It's not always that simple though. Most times they're not really angels or devils. They're just friends giving you advice, looking out for your best interest but not really understanding what's going to be best for you. So it kind of comes down to you. You have to make the decision yourself... This song is called H.”

- Maynard James Keenan, 1996.

My belief is that the fact that the song’s title could be something like ““Hx” or “Hy”” and subsequently subject to debate leads me to think there is no one right answer. However, given Keenan’s own words about the song, as well as the lyrics, we can reach a bit of a conclusion.

The serpent brings to mind imagery of devilish things for me, due to the serpent that tempted Adam and Eve. However, the serpent is metaphoric, as the song says that it and the mirror are devoid of hate. The snake does tempt him, as he says with “venomous voice tempts me,” and that temptation is likely sinful.

The mirror in question is probably the singer himself, not a reflection. The singer mentions that the snake is drowned later on, likely having overcome its temptation.

As the song is about overcoming temptation to do evil, and the title could ultimately be anything - pure, evil, neutral, joking - I believe that the proper title is “Heaven or Hell”.

[iAMtheMA!]

- "is this your brain (https://www.google.com/search?q=lateralization) on TOOL (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JD5-n5Cs94k/Scv2z9vO7ZI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/nXwZPpr2zPg/s400/untitled.bmp)?" -
jello bi (https://youtu.be/fBieV8TwKuE?t=146)afra parabola commentary

[Liko888]

I'm pretty sure it is about his son whose name is Devo H. I believe.

yea, one of the meanings is definitely about his son, but like every tool song (whether they let on or not) there are layered meanings within every song.