my opinion

[neochrist]

im just going to start out by saying that ive listened to tool from the beggining, and im also an avid writer and artist myself. so im just going to take this moment to thank tool for every inspiration and thought provoking moment they have bestowed upon me. now i would just like to say that ive read a lot of responses to forums on this website and ive kept my mouth shut for awhile, but except for a few, most of you make me completely sick to be associated as a tool fan, the bands sole message is to think for yourself and yet most tool fans worship the band like God himself, unless you know mjk, adam, danny or justin personally shut the fuck up with your "this is the meaning of this" bullshit, as a poet myself i fucking hate it when people ask me what the meanings of my writings are, and i hate it when they try to tell me it means this and this, nobody knows what the lyrics mean except the person that wrote them, and even then they can mean thousands of different things to them, the brilliance in all of tools songs is the way every line could be left open to different interpretaion, i feel like im back in english class and the teachers telling me this is what something means in a play or book, whatever it means to you it means to you and thats it, and just to let you know, just because mjk says a couple of antichrist lyrics doesnt mean he hates god, god and jesus are different, christianity is just a way to conform us, if anything thats what tool against, i dont know them so i dont konw if they beleive in one true god or not, it doesnt matter anyways, so stop worshiping them like its your on religion, if i was them id stop making me music the second it became something of that sort and i believe to some of you it is, its one thing to be inspired by them and love there music but its another to worship them because of it.

[nate]

Are you trying to discourage the forum members from expressing what the music and lyrics mean to them, or are you simply saying that people should not think that their interpretation is the only correct one? I am pretty sure that the band wants us to find something meaningful to us in the music and to discuss it with others. If we aren't to discuss what the music means to us, then what is the purpose of these forums? I would think that the band would want us to penetrate the surfass of their music and try to find meaning in it, afterall, the message is "Take the energy created with this music and do something positive with it".

[neochrist]

im not talking about interpretations, i mean those beings who think there the experts of life and try to tell everyone else there wrong and theres is the only right explanation

[TJBundy]

so you're saying that the only one "right" explanation is that there is no one right explanation? that the only one truth is that there is no truth at all?

[nate]

im not talking about interpretations, i mean those beings who think there the experts of life and try to tell everyone else there wrong and theres is the only right explanation

Oh, then I completely agree with you.

[Mr. Zebra]

neochrist- I, too, am an artist, writer and musician (for a list of my influences, check that superfluous and rather idiotic "Staind rips off Tool" Thread). I understand where you're coming from, and I agree, but the fact is that, judging by most of the posts on this site, these people aren't musicians or artists, not really. Knowing what we know (at least, what I know- I'm an intuitive musician as well as being a technical and aesthetic theorist, and I dabble in everything from jazz to heavy metal to stuff that doesn't even have a fucking name, which probably just makes it more jazz- I'm being generous and assuming your competence and artistic equality)... anyway, knowing what we know allows us to fully understand the facets of Tool's music, because we understand the creative process that these HUMAN BEINGS, talented as they may be, are engaging in. Granted this, we are capable of viewing this ART, in all its facets, for what art always and truly is- commentary on life, not life itself. We can, as artist/musicians, more fully understand the mechanics of this construct, and can, as a result, objectively view its purpose- to COMMENT on life as ART, not to exist as an end-all and be-all. Inspiring and wonderful as Tool's music may be, it is created by flawed human beings who are figuring things out, learning and growing every day, JUST LIKE US. As (intelligent) musicians and artists, we understand this.

Sadly, many of these poor individuals are not so enlightened (not that you have to be a musician or arirst to understand these concepts- just reasonably intelligent). They are incapable of self-actualizing, incapable of thinking for themselves- for all intents and purposes, incapable of thinking;
of thinking BEYOND THE ART. Tool is too big for them to view as created, POSSIBLY FLAWED commentary on life. It may be the only truth they know. I believe that art with a message like Tool's can eventually help push these people over the edge into REAL individuality (although, in the end, only they can change themselves; Maynard and the guys can't do it for them). In all of my admittedly short 18 years I have seen many more of the lost and damned than I have of the aware and powerful, the self-actualized. Inevetably these people are going to spout their borrowed and under-informed opinions. You should tell them when they're being sheep, and you did, and I approve. But don't yell at them to stop. They have a right to expose themselves as brainless, and allow someone with a slightly less anal viewpoint to expand their minds a little bit, like I think you just did, albiet rather aggressively. We should have a little more faith in our fellow man than that; faith that they can eventually grow, if proprerly nurtured. Maynard said something like that in the opening quote for the opinion page, didn't he?
Of course, this is all just my opinion- I can't assume I know what I'm talking about. I could be just as full of shit as everybody else. ;)

[Elgyn]

Tool have opened up a lot of new doorways for me, and I have learned a lot of great things through my readings as a result of Tool's music. I like to think I don't need Tool to tell me to 'think for myself', although I can't deny that they've helped me on my way; nudged me in what I believe is a positive direction.
There is a beautiful element of mystery in Tool's music which is rare in bands these. Naturally, with mystery, comes speculation. I've heard so many different interpretations of music, and for the most part they've been well thought out and creative. I think most people here accept that their opinion's are not gospel, and that other people are likely to disagree. Its the people who don't see this who I find difficult to tolerate "#####'s interpretation is obviously correct, the others are way off"... I've got my own interpretations of each song, but I'm still open to - and interested - in other theories.

I think there is a serious danger of becoming part of a unified cult, which idolises Tool, and everything they do. As neochrist pointed out, this doesn't seem to be what Tool's music is about. What exactly their music is about........
well thats another story, and its certainly not one I know how to tell.

I agree with what has been said here... but I must confess - I am a little envious of the 'artistic enlightenment' you chaps seem to have achieved.*

[Mr. Zebra]

Elgyn- We're not "enlightened"- I just like using big, pretentious words, and I apologize. I'm just talking about being intelligent enough to realize the nature of art, and it sounds like you do. From what you said, it sounds like you fully realize that the members of Tool are just artists (albiet incredible ones), not gods, and that their music is to be used as a TOOL (aha!), not followed like a religion. The only other thing I have is a knowledge of music theory and intuition developement techniques, which help me better understand how they MAKE the music; how this art is constructed at a very basic level. It's not enlightenment, and it's not necessary to enjoy Tool's music (duh).
It DOES open up whole new facets of the music, though. If you feel so inclined, you might consider picking up an instrument; maybe learning a little theory- it does wonders to help one understand what one is listening to; the process behind art like Tool, and to help one view it as art. But it's not enlightenment by any stretch. (Although I guess it could be- what the hell IS enlightenment, anyway??) :)

I also wanted to say that I'm with you all the way on the rest of your comments, esp. those pertaining to interpretation of the music. You sound plenty aware and self-actualized to me, so, by default, my comments about the "lost and damned" were not directed at you, or people like you (I'm sure you've seen the kind of people I mean on this site, though). In short, you're my favorite kind of tool fan, because I feel like I can actually relate to why you enjoy their music. Many of the people who post aren't enjoying art, though- they're just grasping at straws to give "meaning" to their life; just looking for something sacred.

[Elgyn]

Mr. Zebra,
you must forgive my need to defend myself. I shouldn't have mentioned the part about being enlightened (whatever that happens to be), but it just sounded a little like you were preaching superiority. I clearly see that that isn't the case now, and I'm sorry I made that assumption.
Having sorted that, I agree with all your points. I love the certain irony in Tool being used as a tool for learning and understanding, because for me, thats definately appropriate. I play a bit of guitar, and I went a fair way learning classical music, so I have a slightly different perspective on things because of that. I did some basic musical theory in school (senior years), but I'm no wiz. I see a lot of very neat patterns in Tool's music, and the way they utilise these patterns to support an emotional point of view is what makes them great in my opinion. They obviously have a good understanding of each other, because they function almost as a whole, rather than four members. I basically mean that they are all focused on creating good songs, not so much on fighting for the spotlight and doing elaborate solos.
In my primitive understanding of music (ie. I don't know theories of composition at all), I certainly feel that knowing a little bit about music serves only to increase my appreciation of certain music, and in some cases lower my appreciation of others.
I have no gripe with you Mr. Zebra, and I certainly agree there are such people as you mentioned on this site. I agree that opinion's are subjective and that far too many people don't realise this, and think that they are the bringers of ultimate truth and law...
Tool certainly are talented artists, but we don't really need to clarify that, because thats pretty much the reason we're both here.
Anyway, you made me realise more than I previously had that Tool are just artists, and that the only people who are likely to know what a song is truly about, are Maynard and his bandmates/close friends. So thanks for that, you're a champ.

[neochrist]

just to clear things up, i wrote my original comments on one of the worst days of my life, and i was quite angry to begin with, so i would take this time to apologize to anybody i offended if i sounded like i was acting superior to everyone else, and yes i do support this forum for exchaing ideas and beliefs, but i was pointing to more the members of this forum who think tool should be idolized, and there words should be put into a book and worshiped like the bible, everyone must understand, tool is not a religion, there all people just as jesus christ was, there not perfect, to follow them in the way some people do goes against everything they stand for. to further note my point on people "knowing" what each songs means, like it was said earlier, you only know what you think you know, and therefore there is no truth or fact in life, regardless of what your school teachers tell you. with one last comment i would just like to say, people should take tool as an inspiration to do something incredible with there lives as they have, not believe everything they say and do.

[Elgyn]

I didn't have a problem with your post...
I guess sometimes when you're angry you say the things you would normally think, but keep to yourself. I don't have much to say here, but stress not about offending me. If you'd just said something pointless and insulting, then it would have been a different story, but hey.... you came up with some interesting stuff.
Catchya,

[dueler25]

It's cool that you did that, while I don't necessarily agree with your views. The way Tool has helped you is what their mission is all about.

BTW, you should write a letter to them detailing all of that - it would be much more personal and affecting, I think.

[axe4moe]

so you're saying that the only one "right" explanation is that there is no one right explanation? that the only one truth is that there is no truth at all?

Maynard probably doesn't even know the full truths to what he writes. fact is it could have been a certain mood he was in. for all we know maynard could look back on his songs and say "what the fuck was i thinking then?"

no matter what he got out of it, what we got out of it, there is not gonna be one truth towards fans or the artists.

"that the only one truth is that there is no truth at all?"


Actually there is one truth....

"the truth of freedom
is the freedom of truth"

....hmmm, i just quoted myself, funny
basically truth is what we make of it. when we believe something is real, then it is TO US. the only full control we have today is control of our on minds, even within all the conformaty (is that how you spell it?) of todays world.

as Aliester would say: "Do what thou wilt"

Some people take this as anarchy, fair enough. but a deeper meaning should be recognized. it means do, think, and act as you will, let go of burden and explore boundries that you normally set yourself to. if that means breaking shit alot, then go for it.

Anyways the point i'm trying to make is that truth is a dirty word that is thrown around carelessly, not giving others freedom of chioce to act out truth for themselves. supieriority is 100% mental domination, no matter how much money you own or power you think you have. don't let the truths of others neglect your own....

peace out

[RRed]

First off, I think Maynard is very intentional with his songs and his song writing process. If he weren't, and if they as in Tool weren't, it wouldn't have taken them 6 years to put out another album. So I do think there is a specific meaning for these songs at least from his point of view and the bands point of view. If there weren't, they would be just like any other run of the mill band but they aren't because there is a passion they have for thier own music that is rooted in meaning.

Personally I can see why he wouldn't explicitly state what these meanings are because that may undermind the beauty of these songs.

And lastly, something to think about. I do believe there to be a 'truth'. It is something that can never reside in the shadow of our pride and ego. And perhaps that is the truth; transcending and dying before the feet of our pretense and sacrificing our desires. I believe this to be the truth or the worthy journey that precedes its revelation. At this point we can simply 'be'. We become tapped into the ancient frequency of our 'true will', our pristine intuition. Then, perhaps, truth will begin to show its holy face.


RRed

[neochrist]

yes in this reality there are many truths, but the truths are confined to our reality, truth is whatever your mind makes of it, because your mind controls your reality, the question is, is this true reality, is there true reality, or is it all just a figment of our imaginations, if we are all interconnected, then this theory is relevant because our minds would be creating the reality we all live in. heres something to think about, if a child was born with no senses, would the childs reality be the same as our reality. tell me what you think.

[RRed]

Real quick. Thats a good point neo. One thing that really opened my mind to this is this story I read or saw on TV, I can't exactly remember which, but anyhow it was about a guy who had been blind since birth I think or shortly there after. Anyway, there is some break through surgical procedure where they were able to restore his vision. The crazy thing though was that his brain altered its sensory paths of touch and cognition because of his blindness and so when he was able to see he didn't understand what the hell he was looking at. And he still had a hell of a time identifying things even if he was feeling them and seeing them at the same time. He could only identify them once he closed his eyes.

This is evidence right here that our realities are projections of our own sensitivity. But it doesn't go with out saying that he and I could identify an apple that was placed in front of us. The only difference is that I can simply look at it but he would have to touch and feel it. But it is still an apple and the same apple that we have both identified therefore it is a piece of a shared reality.

One thing to really explore is the dream state and especially lucid states of sleep. This is where you can really delve into conceptions of consciousness and reality or realities.

RRed

[neochrist]

i agree with you that even though he didnt have one of his senses he's still in our reality, but a child with no senses at all would not have anyway of interacting with the reality it was in, i would like to know how the mind would react to reality in this case, and if we are all truly interconnected, the child would still have some sense of reality even though he was left senseless.

[RRed]

I dont' know. Perhaps you wouldn't surrvive or your body would just shut down or something. We are to a certain extent a mirror of our surroundings. That's where we get our identities and derive self esteem and self value. But with out senses you may not even be aware that you're alive or a living organism because you have nothing to compare it to.

This is just further evidence of out paradox. We are idividuals but we are also an acute highly sensitive collective network of bodies, minds, and souls.