Self-Realization Through the Mirror

[]v[edusa]

Yah, I totally see this song on a different level now. I’ll try to make this as short as possible. I got most of these ideas from the analysis of a few dreams I have been getting involving my own reflection. This is still kind of scratchy…

“First off I have to talk about the false ego or false center. The false ego consists of greed, power, fear, feeling worthless, etc.. This ego is a reflection of what others think of you, it is your unself. Your real center is hidden behind the false center it is your true self. This false ego is brought upon by society. Through this ego society is controlling you. You have to act, talk, walk, believe, follow certain ways just as the society around you does. You wont even realize it and a majority of the population has this false ego. Your parents, your friends, teachers, and society reflect who you are and feed your false center.” – taken from my thread “Finding Your True Self” for the song Jambi.

“I have come curiously close to the end, down
Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole,”

I believe he’s talking about this false ego. “Down” could mean that he’s referring to his will-ego chakra because its amongst the lower chakras.

”Defeated, I concede and
Move closer
I may find comfort here
I may find peace within the emptiness
How pitiful”

He has failed and admits that he’s moving closer to this false ego. Most people think that they find comfort here. For example, if your loved one breaks up with you, you urge to find attention for comfort.

“It's calling me...”

The false ego is calling him. The false ego is like a tick or a leech, its sucking the life out of you. It’s like a psychic vampire, in a way its hypnotizing or calling you to get what it wants.

“And in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping
The moon tells me a secret - my confidant”

In alchemy silver is associated with the moon so in this case the moon can be seen as a mirror because silver is reflective. The mirror is truthful so in a way it is our confident. The mirror reflects our shadow side and since most don’t like what is seen they turn away from the mirror and allow the false ego to feed us causing one to lose themself. The fetal and weeping part could also be referring to the pain that you get from the truth that you find from your reflection.

”As full and bright as I am
This light is not my own and
A million light reflections pass over me”

I believe that this is the false ego looking into the mirror for self knowledge and the mirror image is telling him that this is only a reflection.

“Its source is bright and endless
She resuscitates the hopeless
Without her, we are lifeless satellites drifting”

So now the moon/mirror is turning Maynard's attention to the sun within. The sun in alchemy is gold. To my understanding this is where you discover the true self/true center.

“And as I pull my head out I am without one doubt”

He seems to understand how to turn “lead into gold”. He now knows that the sun is his true self.

”Don't wanna be down here feeding my narcissism.
I must crucify the ego before it's far too late
I pray the light lifts me out
Before I pine away.”

He doesn’t want to feed the false ego anymore. He urges to crucify the false ego before he withers away from the false ego. He prays that he lifts himself out from the will/ego chakra.

“So crucify the ego, before it's far too late
To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical,
And you will come to find that we are all one mind
Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.”

Hes talking about leaving this false ego reality created from society. When we actually find this true self in the heart that’s when we realize that we are all connected and that we are all one mind. It is also believed that we are capable of all that’s imagined and conceivable when we find this true self.

”Just let the light touch you
And let the words spill through
And let them pass right through
Bringing out our hope and reason ...
before we pine away.”

So don’t resist your reflection. Face this reflection and understand the truth to yourself so that you can find your true self.

The moon = silver/third eye the 10th chakra/mirror image
The sun= gold/the crown the 12th chakra/true self

Disposition, reflection, and triad or resolution seem as if they are the pineal access of the 13 chakra system consisting the 10th, 11th, and 12th chakras. If you really think about it disposition can be associated with the moon or 10th chakra so in a way you can see the character in the song as the mirror image waiting for Maynard to turn himself toward the mirror to mention anything. The mirror image is waiting for this connection so that his true self can be found.

[Eight]

I know I tend to not offer very much more than "very interesting", but it is. I think I kind of understand this, it makes sense. I think one day I may take all of your interpretations and try and organize them in some order, for my own records. When it comes to trying to think on this higher level, the part that questions it, says it isn't possible, is that our false ego?

[]v[edusa]

I know I tend to not offer very much more than "very interesting", but it is. I think I kind of understand this, it makes sense. I think one day I may take all of your interpretations and try and organize them in some order, for my own records. When it comes to trying to think on this higher level, the part that questions it, says it isn't possible, is that our false ego?

you enjoy flattering my ego eight. im only human so dont trust every word i say... yes i really think that it is the false ego. im getting this problem with finding my sacred space in the heart, but im going to keep trying and put more faith in myself. patience is a key aswell. i find that trying to point out where this false ego is helps too. i hope that helps.

[Rosette feasted]

you enjoy flattering my ego eight. im only human so dont trust every word i say... yes i really think that it is the false ego. im getting this problem with finding my sacred space in the heart, but im going to keep trying and put more faith in myself. patience is a key aswell. i find that trying to point out where this false ego is helps too. i hope that helps.

DUDE!
You have to say me where I can get these drugs you're on!

[Cheesegreater]

DUDE!
You have to say me where I can get these drugs you're on!

However shallow, that's a hilarious statement. Think of it also as a compliment. I too have read your posts with than a passing interest. I wish I could be part of an active spiritual journey as you appear to be on. If I were to study theology would I get away with pursuing this knowledge? I say that jokingly, but actually from the bottom of my heart. I wish there were a way that I could make all of this my life's work, so to speak. I'm very open-minded and feel I've had life experiences that direct me towards a spiritual journey. I know that sounds cheesy on the surface, but I feel it's true.

[Cheesegreater]

*I too have read your posts with MORE than a passing interest.

My bad... typo

[]v[edusa]

DUDE!
You have to say me where I can get these drugs you're on!

you probably didnt understand a thing i said in my last post unless you read my other posts or read the books i have read.

does it really seem like im on drugs or am i way over everyones head here? are people not understanding what im saying?

im high on life i guess you can say. this spiritual path that i have chosen here has probably made me seem like a happier person maybe.

I wish there were a way that I could make all of this my life's work, so to speak. I'm very open-minded and feel I've had life experiences that direct me towards a spiritual journey. I know that sounds cheesy on the surface, but I feel it's true.

no, i totally understand what you are saying. it feels like everyday im learning more about the truth to myself, i think its really cool and im not talking stupid things, im talking about deeeep meanings to myself. its almost like im regaining memory that was lost. this seems like more of an important path to take then anything.

[Cheesegreater]

this seems like more of an important path to take then anything. [QUOTE]

This sums up my beliefs completely. It's hard for me to find a path that's not littered with bullshit. I think more people are coming to that realization. I don't know, maybe not. I just feel like I have plenty of "figuring out" ahead of me. That's will always be true.

[Eight]

I think its really cool and im not talking stupid things, im talking about deeeep meanings to myself. its almost like im regaining memory that was lost. this seems like more of an important path to take then anything.
I agree. It seems like the more I look at it, the more the conversations we have on a daily basis seem meaningless. I have a difficult time listening to the people around me who are discussing their hair, or articles of clothing because to me, it's not that important.
I wish I could follow you exactly and on a deeper level, but I feel I at least get the idea and I'm sure others do too. Its something that's always been there, but its always had different names.

[Clutch_The_Cornerstone]

this seems like more of an important path to take then anything. [QUOTE]

This sums up my beliefs completely. It's hard for me to find a path that's not littered with bullshit. I think more people are coming to that realization. I don't know, maybe not. I just feel like I have plenty of "figuring out" ahead of me. That's will always be true.

Agreed.

[archonias6]

you probably didnt understand a thing i said in my last post unless you read my other posts or read the books i have read.

Well i can say that you are way over my head. What books have you read that give you this insight...... I'm interested in learning more about this stuff.

[]v[edusa]

Well i can say that you are way over my head. What books have you read that give you this insight...... I'm interested in learning more about this stuff.

Aion by Carl Jung
The poem "Mirror" by Sylvia Plath
I read on Chakras and how they relate to the Planets and Alchemy
The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life by Drunvalo Melchizedek
Living in the Heart by Drunvalo Melchizedek

http://vsociety.net/wiki/Magick_eBooks
http://www.hermetics.org/ebooks.html

[dseecs]

I love the way you describe your opinion, very well done. This is always the way I have felt about the song, I defenitely dont have as deep of knowledge as you do though.

[]v[edusa]

It actually took me a while to understand this myself and it was even harder for me to type it out the best I could so that maybe someone else would understand. I sure hope my patience in putting this together paid off.

Its a very complex song.

[dseecs]

Only recently have I really been able to understand this song, after reading up some stuff on Jung, and just alot of literature in general I began to have alot more understanding.

By the way, not enough people read Jungs work, he is a genius, and very unrecognized if you ask me.

[seb_135]

The thing is, I suppose, not to crucify, but how to crucify our false ego. It looks like we all know exactly what to do to "come to find..." stuff, but we still seem to be on the same level as we started. Any ideas? (not talking about drugs, they work only temporarily)

[]v[edusa]

The thing is, I suppose, not to crucify, but how to crucify our false ego. It looks like we all know exactly what to do to "come to find..." stuff, but we still seem to be on the same level as we started. Any ideas? (not talking about drugs, they work only temporarily)

I try to not tell people what to do cause people should find out how to do things by themself. Here are ways that do feed the ego (you can figure for yourself how to crucify):

- having addictions (drugs, games, TV, shopping, etc)
- caring about how you should dress
- watching TV (the media in a way tells you how to act without you knowing)
- looking for attention
- letting money control you, lettng people control you.
- even needing to feel loved
- riding your own countries ass (can refer to region, territory, party, gang, etc)
- ignoring your shadow side
- having fears
- not thinking for yourself, not questioning authority
- letting yourself be fooled or tricked.
- the list goes on

Basically, don’t be like a sheep following the rest of the herd and fear not the sheep dog that tries to keep you in the herd.

An interesting dream last night:

I dont know if anyone knows of the famous 9 year old indigo child that made really realistic paintings, but she was in my dream. We were both in a room with a huge mirror in front of us and started painting portraits of our own selves through the mirror. She turned to me and asked, "could you turn off the light please?" I was puzzled and asked, "if I turn it off then how are you suppost to see yourselves in the mirror", she replied, "I dont need my eyes to see"...

[seb_135]

I try to not tell people what to do cause people should find out how to do things by themself. Here are ways that do feed the ego (you can figure for yourself how to crucify):

That's my point. We all know what not to do, what feeds our ego. We try not to do those things, came closer to the matter and still don't feel we come closer to our divinity.

The question is: Did you figured out how to do it?

[]v[edusa]

The question is: Did you figured out how to do it?

the answer was in my last post. all you have to do it do the opposite of the list i gave you above. ways to decrease this ego is totally up to you.

Some ways that im trying to decrease it is by facing my fears in my dreams to decrease my fears, meditating to become more aware of myself, connecting with nature, confronting my shadow, thinking before I speak so I dont sound like a hypocrite, trying to not become dependant on things, viewing things from many different views and not just one, not giving a fuck what people think of myself, etc.

This kinda thing doesnt just happen over night and we just happen to live in a world full of technology and distractions that it only makes things harder.

I wouldnt allow myself to be someone that walks down the midway of a carnival getting tricked by carnies to win a $5 stuffed toy for $50 and not noticing because my ego just went, "I just won this". Neither would I allow myself to be a carnie that lets the power get to their head and fool others to thinking that its a fun game when really all they want is your money. But it doesnt end there, there is still the boss of the carnival that pretends that hes your best friend when really all hes thinking about is the more money in his pocket from you. And thats just a small portion of the carnival business.

From working at a carnival and being a "carny", I notcied that the whole world is just like a huge carnival and sadly enough most people are either the people walking down the midways or are the carnies. There are still higher levels in the carnival that are coming up with ways of controlling the entire carnival, but really everyone is getting tricked down the line. Everything about this carnival is fake and has ego written all over it. All you gotta do is look over the carnival tents to the trees peering from the distance and find your way there to the real world without getting distracted by money, power, greed, or anything else that might feed this false ego.

[seb_135]

All you gotta do is look over the carnival tents to the trees peering from the distance and find your way there to the real world without getting distracted by money, power, greed, or anything else that might feed this false ego.

Damn right. I didn't want to be hostile or sth. It's just difficult for me to "open a third eye". I was never good in praying. Anyway, thanks for giving considered advices. It's good to know that someone can aquire "the higher level".

[]v[edusa]

Damn right. I didn't want to be hostile or sth. It's just difficult for me to "open a third eye". I was never good in praying. Anyway, thanks for giving considered advices. It's good to know that someone can aquire "the higher level".

when it comes to praying i tend to get the best results when i pray to myself. these kinda things take time and you just have to be patient. try to find your own way thats comfortable for you to open your third eye and try to not pry it open with drugs cause drugs will only tease it. Always think for yourself and even question what i have to say cause i could lead you in the wrong direction. I am only human and humans make mistakes.

[Eight]

Carnival, that is a great way to put it.
I think you're right and its just something you have to work at. There are a lot of people who are comfortable with who they are and it shows, but that's only half the battle.

[seb_135]

I was never good in taking advices, thought. I've always tried to do everything by and for myself and I don't feel bad actually. It's just not enought, just like something's missing. (vide. Stinkfist's "how can it mean anyhing to me if I really don't feel anything at all?".) It's just sometimes difficult to handle with myself being beyond (higher than(?)) what society thinks is good. Also, I rarely meet sophisticated people. Maybe that's why I can't live without Tool - that's sth extraordinary in my life.

[Clutch_The_Cornerstone]

lllvllledusa: I dont know if anyone knows of the famous 9 year old indigo child that made really realistic paintings, but she was in my dream. We were both in a room with a huge mirror in front of us and started painting portraits of our own selves through the mirror. She turned to me and asked, "could you turn off the light please?" I was puzzled and asked, "if I turn it off then how are you suppost to see yourselves in the mirror", she replied, "I dont need my eyes to see"

very interesting dream my friend..the last line is actually kinda creepy..but still awesome. Makes me think about TOOL :) Peace dude.

[]v[edusa]

Here’s some more stuff about the song and the mirror that I left out:

Greek Myth’s About the Significance of the Mirror

Medusa

Medusa was so beautiful. She even believed that she was more beautiful then a Goddess. Because of her beauty Poseidon had sex with her. Athena got extremely jealous so she turned her into an ugly gorgon. Medusa looked so frightful that no living thing could behold her without being turned into stone. Perseus set out to kill her so he used his reflection in a mirror to fool her into thinking that was him. Then when he brought her attention to the mirror he flipped the mirror so it was facing her. She saw herself true self in the mirror and died…. Medusa also symbolizes a total solar eclipse and I personally think she is related to a Venus transit. The flares from the sun can be seen as the snakes on her head.

Narcissus

Narcissus would only live a long life if he never grew to know himself. Narcissus was so handsome everyone loved and desired him, but Narcissus was too proud to offer his love in return. One of the lovers that got rejected took their complaint to the goddess of vengeance, Nemesis. Nemesis cursed Narcissus to fall in love with himself, but simultaneously to be incapable of accepting his own love. One day Narcissus came across his own reflection in a pond and fell in love with his own reflection failing to see his true ugly side to him. He was in love with his reflection so much that he never left to even eat causing him to pine away.

What does this mean?

Since Medusa thought that the mirror image of perseus was real she realized that her own mirror image was real, viewing the ugly side of her. This got her to see her true self. “Death” in the story of Medusa seems as though it could symbolize the death of her ego, but she could have also literally killed herself after seeing the truth. Narcissus on the other hand only loved his own reflection and never actually found his true self because he couldn’t see his ugly side. This caused him to pine away. His false ego kept drifting him from knowing himself. This is where the word “narcissism” comes from. To be a narcissist is to be someone that is very full of themself, selfish, and fails to see or doesn't want to see the shadow part of themself.

[]v[edusa]

You probably know this, but the six lines after "... my confidant" are actually spoken by the moon.
I know that all of your (good) conclusions still apply, but for me the distinction does kind of tweak the meaning a little bit.

yes, I know. I believe the moon actually symbolizes his mirror image. If someone is your confidant it means that they are the most trustworthy. Someone who you should trust the most is your own mirror image because it reflects all the things that you dont want to see, it never lies. The moon in alchemy is silver and is reflective. The sun is gold and symbolizes the true self. In the beginning of this album Maynard was talking about turning lead into gold. Now its coming to the end of the album and hes showing that this change is actually taking place.

So I just want to know what could be tweaking the meaning?

[Right-In-46-&-2]

You probably know this, but the six lines after "... my confidant" are actually spoken by the moon.
I know that all of your (good) conclusions still apply, but for me the distinction does kind of tweak the meaning a little bit.

Ah. Now this helps me understand better.

So its pretty much the moon, talking about the sun's light.

Is it just me, or when you finally figure out the true possible meanings of Tool's songs, do others feel overwhelmed with the knowledge that people post here?

For me when I read some of the meanings I get shivers down my spine. Probably telling me that theres a whole other world out there that we could be experiencing if we could crucify our egos.

Thank you oh wise one lllvllledusa. You see things on an awesome level. I wish I could get there...

[]v[edusa]

Ah. Now this helps me understand better.

So its pretty much the moon, talking about the sun's light.

Is it just me, or when you finally figure out the true possible meanings of Tool's songs, do others feel overwhelmed with the knowledge that people post here?

For me when I read some of the meanings I get shivers down my spine. Probably telling me that theres a whole other world out there that we could be experiencing if we could crucify our egos.

Thank you oh wise one lllvllledusa. You see things on an awesome level. I wish I could get there...


Thanks, but I actually changed a lot on my view of this song. I'll post it up when i have the time. I change my mind a lot. I evolve my interpretations.

[rollusagiant]

Nice thread Medusa.