God

[Wild_Lion_]

"While the mother holds on his child, watches him die. Hands to the sky crying: 'Why oh why?' " - Asking God

God replies with: " 'Cause I need to watch things die, from a distance. Vicariously I live while the whole world dies"

I think the vampire reference is about a creature that lives forever and feeds off others. People dying is giving him life. "We all feed on tradgety, it's like blood to a vampire. Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies. Much better you than I!"
Kind of sounds like "Satan".

[jonboy]

"While the mother holds on his child, watches him die. Hands to the sky crying: 'Why oh why?' " - Asking God

God replies with: " 'Cause I need to watch things die, from a distance. Vicariously I live while the whole world dies"

One perspective, but nice nonetheless.

[]v[edusa]

its the false ego that TV, media, authorities, etc create. its like a vampire, leech, devil, or tick. its very selfish and feeds on others out of self indulgence. they are all representations of the false ego. praying for something from the mind and not the heart to god polarizes our intention. people dont realize the true ego is inside them and are caught up in this illusion made by this false ego. the false ego seems as if it lives forever because in a way it is beneficial to society. it makes the population easily controllable.

read my "finding the true self" for the song jambi. its explains more about this false ego.

[SMEPman]

How is it possible to NOT feed on ANYTHING on Earth and survive? To live and survive you must kill....so it is, so it's always been. The wheel of life does not exist without death and distruction.

The "false ego" you describe are acutally memes...or mind viruses that are present in all of us in varying degrees. Since very few people have full control over their rational mind, they operate on programing...carrying out throughts, words, and deeds in favor of the meme and at the expense of themselves.

[]v[edusa]

The "false ego" you describe are acutally memes...or mind viruses that are present in all of us in varying degrees. Since very few people have full control over their rational mind, they operate on programing...carrying out throughts, words, and deeds in favor of the meme and at the expense of themselves.

sweet. thanks for the info! good stuff.

[SMEPman]

sweet. thanks for the info! good stuff.

You got it. Read: "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins.

And back on topic. I guess I don't see how God answers that passage in the song. I think it's more like a dysfunctional society acting on material and animal instincts instead. But, take from the music what you need I guess.

[DON IOTAE]

"While the mother holds on his child, watches him die. Hands to the sky crying: 'Why oh why?' " - Asking God

God replies with: " 'Cause I need to watch things die, from a distance. Vicariously I live while the whole world dies"

I think the vampire reference is about a creature that lives forever and feeds off others. People dying is giving him life. "We all feed on tradgety, it's like blood to a vampire. Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies. Much better you than I!"
Kind of sounds like "Satan".

this is an awesome take. i love it when a new view like this one sweeps the rug from under your feet...

[DON IOTAE]

emanation?

[DON IOTAE]

that kinda doesnt leave room for any debate, now does it? everything is nothing, so what's the point?

[Inner_Eulogy]

"While the mother holds on his child, watches him die. Hands to the sky crying: 'Why oh why?' "

It might help if you had the lyrics correct for starters. It's "While the mother holds HER child"

EDIT: Although I must say it is an interesting angle to view it from.

[]v[edusa]

ok...
satan is the false ego!!!! in order to find god you have to find god within yourself instead of praying to the outside world. so in a way God is connected within your true self/ego. god is the one consciousness of the universe. the true self is where we discover that "we are all one mind".

satan/devil/tick/leech/vampire/moon = false ego/memes/your mirror image

god/spirit/heart/sun = true self/ your true ego which is connected with the one consciousness of the universe/ the source of all the light doesnt come from the moon (mirror image) it comes from the sun within (true self).

crucifying the ego means eliminating this false ego/meme/devil/mirror image and allowing thiis dualistic reality to become one. "two become one".

as in going from two egos (false & true) to one (true ego). its about becoming unified! we were given free will but we have been spiltting ourselves "right in two" instead of using our own free will to "put the peices back together". our true "communication" is actually within us all and not amongst this false ego reality.

[Inner_Eulogy]

And what's with people that can never make a post without always quoting lyrics? lol

[]v[edusa]

i realized that tool has been talking about this is other songs so i figure since we are all tool fans here then i can show how this fits into other songs to me. i dont have to quote but i feel that people will understand what im saying better if i quote lyrics from other songs.... you know we are only in a tool forum after all.

[iAMtheMA!]

And what's with people that can never make a post without always quoting lyrics? lol
brickstone backdrop required

[futant55]

That's probably one of the reasons why Eye need to watch things die.

Yeah, I'm kind of jacked up on pills. (legally obtained pills.)

What kind of pills.
This is a really good thread.
I think that if you think of this whole album in the ways described in this thread you can see it as a next step after lateralus.
In the end of Reflection he realizes that he must crucify his ego before its far to late. This seems like an easy task that once you have that revelation it is as easy as that, but the ego goes far deeper than just what is considered ego by today standards. Its not just your own thought s on yourself and who you are it is your perspective and beliefs on existence. I can see this album as a come down from lateralus and taking that observing what situation you are really in and identifying all the different aspects of the ego in your life. Once you get down to that level and start observing and making those connections and really understanding it can you start to actually overcome these things and make progress. Just having the revelation and having wishful thinking of crucifying your ego is not enough alone. This also reinforces the idea of the two becoming one. Bringing all these hopes and Ideas presented in Lateralus and fusing them with your everyday life and you present existence.

[hobblegobble]

It might help if you had the lyrics correct for starters. It's "While the mother holds HER child"

EDIT: Although I must say it is an interesting angle to view it from.

yeah, maybe the mother was transgender. Eh? Any takers? lol

[Inner_Eulogy]

i realized that tool has been talking about this is other songs so i figure since we are all tool fans here then i can show how this fits into other songs to me. i dont have to quote but i feel that people will understand what im saying better if i quote lyrics from other songs.... you know we are only in a tool forum after all.

I was only being sarcastic, no need for the explanation.

[]v[edusa]

What kind of pills.
This is a really good thread.
I think that if you think of this whole album in the ways described in this thread you can see it as a next step after lateralus.
In the end of Reflection he realizes that he must crucify his ego before its far to late. This seems like an easy task that once you have that revelation it is as easy as that, but the ego goes far deeper than just what is considered ego by today standards. Its not just your own thought s on yourself and who you are it is your perspective and beliefs on existence. I can see this album as a come down from lateralus and taking that observing what situation you are really in and identifying all the different aspects of the ego in your life. Once you get down to that level and start observing and making those connections and really understanding it can you start to actually overcome these things and make progress. Just having the revelation and having wishful thinking of crucifying your ego is not enough alone. This also reinforces the idea of the two becoming one. Bringing all these hopes and Ideas presented in Lateralus and fusing them with your everyday life and you present existence.

im really starting to believe that this whole album is about the crucifixion of the false ego and finding your true self. read my jambi thread http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=77828 because everything i say about this album will seem as if it revolves around jambi. even wings for marie and 10000 days talk about this. its almost like his mother is a good example of someone who has found their true self.

"Who could deny you were the one who
Illuminated your little piece of the divine?"

it really sounds like she found her true self in the heart. this is the sacred space of the heart that Drunvalo talks about in his book "living in the heart"

"You're going home."

have you ever heard, "home is where the heart is"? well people who actually find this sacred place in the heart call it their home. home is where you connect with this universal consciousness or God.

Even Jesus himself said, "i say unto you, he that believeth in me, the works that i do shall he do also, and greater works than these shall he do."

im not christian, but if you havent noticed jesus sets a good example of someone who has crucified the ego. i believe that if you really looked at jesus' teachings in both the bible and the gnostic gospels then in a way its like jesus is preaching that you should find the true self within. the best christians i have even met basically preached it like this and in a way it was almost like they were praying to themselves within.

[SMEPman]

ok...
satan is the false ego!!!! in order to find god you have to find god within yourself instead of praying to the outside world. so in a way God is connected within your true self/ego. god is the one consciousness of the universe. the true self is where we discover that "we are all one mind".

satan/devil/tick/leech/vampire/moon = false ego/memes/your mirror image

god/spirit/heart/sun = true self/ your true ego which is connected with the one consciousness of the universe/ the source of all the light doesnt come from the moon (mirror image) it comes from the sun within (true self).

crucifying the ego means eliminating this false ego/meme/devil/mirror image and allowing thiis dualistic reality to become one. "two become one".

as in going from two egos (false & true) to one (true ego). its about becoming unified! we were given free will but we have been spiltting ourselves "right in two" instead of using our own free will to "put the peices back together". our true "communication" is actually within us all and not amongst this false ego reality.

You are really on to something there. Keep exploring those thought processes.

A few things to remember. First of all, there is no polarity in the Godhead/The Tao. All possibilities exist, but there is no-thing...just pure chaos. Once you pass the Lens of Maya, everthing in creation is polarized....yin/yang....God/Devil....day/night...male/female. Without this polarity, there is no action or movement. It is the cyclical nature of the Universe....death and distruction begets creation...that brings chaos to order. However, as modern quantum threory has shown, it is up to the observer (ie YOU) to choose your own reality....your own "right in two." Reality is not false, Reality is God. And reality, as you know it, cannot and does not exist with out you. Think about it.

[futant55]

I'll read your Jambio thread as soon as I get a chance. Is that drunvalo book good. I never really looked into that one. I think you sum up a lot of the problem that people have. Everyone wants to search outward for the answers and their peace when really this whole time the peace has been inside you this whole time just waiting for you to connect with it and release it. It amazes me if you break a lot of christianity down and compare the straight teachings from jesus himself and alot of the teachings and practices of the religion they contradict themselves a lot.

[Inner_Eulogy]

iim not christian, but if you havent noticed jesus sets a good example of someone who has crucified the ego. i believe that if you really looked at jesus' teachings in both the bible and the gnostic gospels then in a way its like jesus is preaching that you should find the true self within. the best christians i have even met basically preached it like this and in a way it was almost like they were praying to themselves within.

I completely agree, true religion is not in a church or converting others, true faith and religion is within yourself. You are your own temple, treat others as you would wish to be treated.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I'll read your Jambio thread as soon as I get a chance. Is that drunvalo book good. I never really looked into that one. I think you sum up a lot of the problem that people have. Everyone wants to search outward for the answers and their peace when really this whole time the peace has been inside you this whole time just waiting for you to connect with it and release it. It amazes me if you break a lot of christianity down and compare the straight teachings from jesus himself and alot of the teachings and practices of the religion they contradict themselves a lot.

They sure do. Because at some point in history religion became an agenda for propaganda instead of a personal soul search of oneself to become a pure human as God and Jesus alike intended.

[Esurient4Truth]

"While the mother holds her child...and watches him dye. Hands to the sky cryin', why oh why?"

Maybe a few typos ^, but nonetheless...

Why does God need to watch things die? God is unmerciful = true. But why would he need to kill of the very beings he created in his mirror image?

I take it this way in a literal sense:
-The mother is crying on "the television."
-I click off the tele and state the "because I need to watch things die!"
That's how I see myself in the song. Great, now I'm cruel.

I think Vicarious is more or less about humanities desire for blood lust rather than these metaphorical and over-analyzed meanings. I can see myself, in the song, flipping through channels, and watching these "tragic events" happen to people. It's just human. What do you do when you go home? You watch CSI, Cops, whatever (as a quick note, I personally do not watch those shows). What do people do in the shows? Get shot, raped, die from diseases, murdered, homicides, etc. And we watch it because it's "interesting..." Nonetheless we are attracted to this blood lust material.

Just my 2 cents.

[Inner_Eulogy]

"While the mother holds her child...and watches him dye. Hands to the sky cryin', why oh why?"

Maybe a few typos ^, but nonetheless...

Why does God need to watch things die? God is unmerciful = true. But why would he need to kill of the very beings he created in his mirror image?

I take it this way in a literal sense:
-The mother is crying on "the television."
-I click off the tele and state the "because I need to watch things die!"
That's how I see myself in the song. Great, now I'm cruel.

I think Vicarious is more or less about humanities desire for blood lust rather than these metaphorical and over-analyzed meanings. I can see myself, in the song, flipping through channels, and watching these "tragic events" happen to people. It's just human. What do you do when you go home? You watch CSI, Cops, whatever (as a quick note, I personally do not watch those shows). What do people do in the shows? Get shot, raped, die from diseases, murdered, homicides, etc. And we watch it because it's "interesting..." Nonetheless we are attracted to this blood lust material.

Just my 2 cents.

I love CSI, 24 & Heroes...just so ya'll know

[]v[edusa]

Is that drunvalo book good. I never really looked into that one. I think you sum up a lot of the problem that people have. Everyone wants to search outward for the answers and their peace when really this whole time the peace has been inside you this whole time just waiting for you to connect with it and release it. It amazes me if you break a lot of christianity down and compare the straight teachings from jesus himself and alot of the teachings and practices of the religion they contradict themselves a lot.

yah i think the book is great. i bought it not knowing that there were going to be tool connections, but it even explains the "rediscover communication" part of schism nicely.

yah i even marked a few spots in my bible where it is contradicting itself, but you also gotta understand that the bible had been passed down for about 2000 years and has been rewritten so many times. christianity also was born from hermeticism and neoplatonism so im pretty sure its original message wasnt so bad.

[jevons]

tHE QUESTION IS... wHAT ON eARTH IS PURPOSEFUL, POTENT, tRUTHFUL TO LAST AS LONG AS IS NEEDED?


-----------------------------Guess? Rhymes with ''fart.''

[futant55]

tHE QUESTION IS... wHAT ON eARTH IS PURPOSEFUL, POTENT, tRUTHFUL TO LAST AS LONG AS IS NEEDED?


-----------------------------Guess? Rhymes with ''fart.''
Pop-Tart? j/k

[jevons]

Not a golf cart or Pop-Tart, it's more of a lost art.

[buzzo]

one word?

[buzzo]

one word?

or two

or three?

[jevons]

H-E-A-R-T

[buzzo]

H-E-A-R-T

oh.

[jevons]

yup

[jevons]

Now read lllvllledusa's Jambi thread. It might bring us back to the FUCKING POINT.

[smeefsmeef]

There is no Dana, only ZOOL ....

I mean:

There is no Satan, Only God.

I think she says "why, oh why" to God... and God replies with the chorus.

just another idea.

[smeefsmeef]

How is it possible to NOT feed on ANYTHING on Earth and survive? To live and survive you must kill....so it is, so it's always been. The wheel of life does not exist without death and distruction.

The "false ego" you describe are acutally memes...or mind viruses that are present in all of us in varying degrees. Since very few people have full control over their rational mind, they operate on programing...carrying out throughts, words, and deeds in favor of the meme and at the expense of themselves.


Are you a reincarnation of L. R. H?

Or just a follower?

























.
j/j

[Clutch_The_Cornerstone]

It might help if you had the lyrics correct for starters. It's "While the mother holds HER child"

EDIT: Although I must say it is an interesting angle to view it from.

this guy cracks me up...always correcting someone

[Inner_Eulogy]

this guy cracks me up...always correcting someone

lol, sorry...it's a slight OCD issue I have. I can't stand when somebody says they know something when they are completely wrong, people do it all the time. Why not just say I think, or in my opinion....don't state fact unless ya' fucking know it, am I right? If I'm not sure of something, I'll tell you straight up, or I'll fucking ask. But I will argue until I die about something that I know to be fact.

[Clutch_The_Cornerstone]

Understood man i got ya but you just seem like your an.....i dont know man asshole but i guess your just a smart individual. ill just have to get used to your tone of type. ive only been a member for 3 months. so i guess im still a noob when it comes to conversations on this site. Cheers.

[Clutch_The_Cornerstone]

^ True.

[Inner_Eulogy]

No, "I will argue until I die about something that I know to be fact" is pretty much the definition of an asshole.

No, I can be an asshole but, that statement is more of a definition of someone who stands for what they believe in, no matter what.

[wearethestories]

But would you stand up for what you believe in if it means...

killing the ones you love most?

good question.

relates extremely well to religion.

discuss.

[Inner_Eulogy]

But would you stand up for what you believe in if it means...

killing the ones you love most?

I think I just read this response at the right time. That's a very tough question and I think before a major experience happened in my life last week, I would've said of course without question. I've come to find after my experience that I'm a total narcissist. It would require somebody to actually read up on it because everyone seems to think all that means is that one is into themselves. I'm not really "into" myself but I share many of the traits of narcissism from not feeling empathy towards others and living a facade with an inflated ego when inside I actually feel completely worthless. I've been doing a lot of reading on it lately and plan on starting counseling for it this week. I never realized that I had become my own step-father, always putting others down, quick to point out any and every flaw in somebody to make myself feel bigger or better and never EVER in million years could I be wrong about anything. I was so mistaken. My step-father was verbally abusive my whole life from childhood and neither of my parents were ever any good at reinforcing my positive attributes. Only if I did something that was wrong was I noticed, and even then it was nothing but about how stupid or worthless I was. I've been together with my girlfriend for 6yrs now and we have a 3 1/2yr old son. I have never realized until recently that for years I've done to her what my father did to me and I fear I've lost her forever now. If anybody has advice or has dealt with a situation or can relate, I would love for you to share it.

[orange_knickers]

I think inners post perfectly illustrates what can lie behind behaviour that belittles and condemns others. Developing the kind of flexibility it takes to actually appreciate someone elses opinions, even if you dont make them your own, is a question of maturity, feeling of self worth (sorry, my english lacks the finer nuances) and self-esteem. To be open to other opinions is not a sign of weakness, rather the opposite. And once u realise, that what you do or say to others, actually matters to and affects them, u perhaps start taking responsebility. We dont ever exist in a void. Putting someone elses opinions down is easy, nothing to it really, else than ruthlessness. To create a climate where everyone can feel safe to express ones opinions (stupid or not), that takes skill. I can relate to inner. First step taken realising there is a problem. Took me years to move forward from that. Grand of him to be so open about it. Good luck.

[AlcheMilla]

I think I just read this response at the right time. That's a very tough question and I think before a major experience happened in my life last week, I would've said of course without question. I've come to find after my experience that I'm a total narcissist. It would require somebody to actually read up on it because everyone seems to think all that means is that one is into themselves. I'm not really "into" myself but I share many of the traits of narcissism from not feeling empathy towards others and living a facade with an inflated ego when inside I actually feel completely worthless. I've been doing a lot of reading on it lately and plan on starting counseling for it this week. I never realized that I had become my own step-father, always putting others down, quick to point out any and every flaw in somebody to make myself feel bigger or better and never EVER in million years could I be wrong about anything. I was so mistaken. My step-father was verbally abusive my whole life from childhood and neither of my parents were ever any good at reinforcing my positive attributes. Only if I did something that was wrong was I noticed, and even then it was nothing but about how stupid or worthless I was. I've been together with my girlfriend for 6yrs now and we have a 3 1/2yr old son. I have never realized until recently that for years I've done to her what my father did to me and I fear I've lost her forever now. If anybody has advice or has dealt with a situation or can relate, I would love for you to share it.

!

[Apachana]

I am God.

You are God.

Why must we be seperated?.. well I guess we just got bored and wanted to play cops-and-criminals. Since we can't die.. let's pretend we can.
I kinda takes away the lonelyness and pain of being AL-ONE and eternal.

what more is there to say?.. Fuck you. fuck me. who cares.. let's Do all the women in the Tool forum.

;D

[orange_knickers]

I am God.

You are God.

Why must we be seperated?.. well I guess we just got bored and wanted to play cops-and-criminals. Since we can't die.. let's pretend we can.
I kinda takes away the lonelyness and pain of being AL-ONE and eternal.

what more is there to say?.. Fuck you. fuck me. who cares.. let's Do all the women in the Tool forum.

;D

Ahhahhaaa...makes me think of that creepy character in that JLo movie... (the Cell?)
"Me God...boy...Me God ..boy"...lol

[whatscomingthroughisalive]

You got it. Read: "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins.

And back on topic. I guess I don't see how God answers that passage in the song. I think it's more like a dysfunctional society acting on material and animal instincts instead. But, take from the music what you need I guess.

It's nice to see someone on here familiar with some science writing and perhaps skeptical literature. I have not read "The Selfish Gene" but it is on my list as one to get around to. I recently finished "The God Delusion" which is also by Dawkins as you're probably aware; I highly recommend that book, and incidently he does briefly discuss the hypothetical religious memes in it. Ever read any Sagan, Diamond, Shermer, or Gould?

I also don't think that Maynard is speaking from the perspective of God and Satan in 'Vicarious' but it certainly is a somewhat creative take. I like what you say about it being "more like a dysfunctional ....". This is personally more along the way in which I interpret it. I have trouble identifiying with the juvenile couch potato perspective. I kind of think of it being about a false obsession with violence. By false I mean one that is only pretend--one that is only allowed to persist because of the distance at which one can observe it--a distance that sheilds the obsessed from the reality of violence. I think many people are lying to themselves when it comes to how much they seem to enjoy violence. "...sing to the death rattle...la la la lie, la lie, la lie". And to the extent that they do enjoy or are numb to real violence I think it is nothing to be proud of. I have more thoughts on this song but I won't go into them now.

[whatscomingthroughisalive]

A few things to remember. First of all, there is no polarity in the Godhead/The Tao. All possibilities exist, but there is no-thing...just pure chaos. Once you pass the Lens of Maya, everthing in creation is polarized....yin/yang....God/Devil....day/night...male/female. Without this polarity, there is no action or movement. It is the cyclical nature of the Universe....death and distruction begets creation...that brings chaos to order. However, as modern quantum threory has shown, it is up to the observer (ie YOU) to choose your own reality....your own "right in two." Reality is not false, Reality is God. And reality, as you know it, cannot and does not exist with out you. Think about it.

What?

Oh man. When I saw that you had read some Dawkins I thought 'wow, there may actually be a few clear thinkers in this forum after all' but now you've got me worried. You'll have to forgive me but I have no idea what you are refering to when you say "the Godhead/The Tao"; Could you explain a little bit?
What is the "Lens of Maya"?

I guess I wonder how much of what you have said here is actually meaningful. Much of it seems just poetic waxing about the cycles in nature, which is fine, but it is hard to tell if you are saying more. Take the statment "Reality is not false, Reality is God"; Now if you ask me, that statement is pretty much unintelligible. Note I am not trying to shit all over you're ideas, but merely inquiring.

Perhaps what concens me most is what you say about Quantum Mechanics. I would urge you to be very slow about making such statements as you have about it. You take a very mysterious experimental observation about the 'observer' affecting reality by the very act of observing (such as determing the path a photon travels) and seem to suggest that it somehow means that by some mental process we can profoundly affect something external to us, the physical structure of the Universe. Now this may not be just what you mean. Surely you'll forgive me as you only gave us the phrase "choose your own reality". I'm afraid I have to say that that sounds like an invitation to wishful thinking and more than a little unscientific.

History is full of people who have taken scientific findings and theories and have used them to support their own social, political, economic, religious, or personal ideology or have used them to villify science or other ideologies when in fact (most times) they did not understand the science they were talking about. We only disservice ourselves and others when we do so, and it is an abuse of science. I sincerely hope this is not what you have done and that I have misunderstood you.

"[choose] your own 'right in two' " What?
It seems pretty clear that in Right in Two, Maynard is talking about the tendancy of human groups to destructively divide. Dogma is undoubtedly a major source of such division. Gratuitous claims to certainty with little or no evidence or in contradiction to evidence. In short, believing things for which you do not have good reasons. But dogma can be mixed in with nationalism, racism, sexism, ethinic rivalry and out and out tribalism. All of which are potent producers of us/them thinking and in-group/out-group morality. I fail to see any link between the clear meaning of the phrase "right in two" in the song of the same name and an existential equivalent of a choose your own adventure novel. You'll have to help me out.

[Apachana]

I think I just read this response at the right time. That's a very tough question and I think before a major experience happened in my life last week, I would've said of course without question. I've come to find after my experience that I'm a total narcissist. It would require somebody to actually read up on it because everyone seems to think all that means is that one is into themselves. I'm not really "into" myself but I share many of the traits of narcissism from not feeling empathy towards others and living a facade with an inflated ego when inside I actually feel completely worthless. I've been doing a lot of reading on it lately and plan on starting counseling for it this week. I never realized that I had become my own step-father, always putting others down, quick to point out any and every flaw in somebody to make myself feel bigger or better and never EVER in million years could I be wrong about anything. I was so mistaken. My step-father was verbally abusive my whole life from childhood and neither of my parents were ever any good at reinforcing my positive attributes. Only if I did something that was wrong was I noticed, and even then it was nothing but about how stupid or worthless I was. I've been together with my girlfriend for 6yrs now and we have a 3 1/2yr old son. I have never realized until recently that for years I've done to her what my father did to me and I fear I've lost her forever now. If anybody has advice or has dealt with a situation or can relate, I would love for you to share it.


whoa didn' read this before now. I kinda feel bad i called you hostile-narcissist in the Jambi thread, right now. although you we're kinda hostile ;D haha.
but seriously. Props to this thread here Inner. really respect.
This is possibly one of the hugest things one can experience in ones lifetime, except maybe childhood and dying.

Street respect to that thread.

[Apachana]

..