marijuana is to the pot as butt rape is to prison sex

[O.G.T.92]

Tool has always partially pandered to the un-intellectual music lovers as well as the highly over-analyzing fans. It's nothing new, and everyone seems confused . They do both things simultaneously and always have. Even the name of the band heh heh heh.....tool.

[imatoolhed]

you are so wrong in your thread topic point.

to each their own tho.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I agree, both of those songs are metaphorical. The Pot is not about smoking weed just as much as Prison Sex is not actually about getting butt raped.

[Esurient4Truth]

wow. I do I answer this?
...
...
hmm....
well, if that's how you take it: good for you.

sure, the pot may have marijuana references, but your missing the point.

same goes for buttsex in prison sex... umm, prison sex wasn't even about buttsex, neither where there any obvious correlations between the two. the name maybe? ... oh well.

anyway, if you want to make that point, then you could say anal fisting is to stinkfist as yada yada blah blah. it doesn't mean the same thing in the song! it's missing the point and taking the name literally. once again... oh well.

[wearethestories]

Both of the songs are metaphorical (though have obvious/blatant meanings in them as well). Stinkfist doesn't ACTUALLY refer to anal fisting (just like Prison Sex and The Pot don't actually refer to anal sex and marijuana, respectively). I think that's clear.

To the OP: are you claiming that TOOL's naming of certain songs (along with those songs' themes) intentionally pander to those who refuse to look deeper into the meanings. I completely disagree (as the whole "think for yourself" thing would be lost... thus both Adam and Maynard have, in interviews, termed 10,000 Days their "blues" album because no one is listening to them).

I'd just like to know why you're so sure of your "theory"...

[O.G.T.92]

First of all I did jump the gun using prison sex as my example, looking back it was a poor choice. I make many erroneous comments, but everybody does.
I was basically trying to make a general statement about metaphors being used in a lot of the lyrics after seeing so many posts about "the pot is about marijuana" or "the pot has nothing to do with marijuana". It doesn't necessarily need to be one way and not the other. To me, it's obviously both. and there IS a marijuana reference in the line "Ganja? P-lease! You must have been out your mind"
In response to wearethestories post: I don't necessarily think the "think for yourself" concept is lost when pandering to a "dumber" maybe younger audience as long as it doesn't infringe on the message conveyed. They could have chosen hundreds of different "analogy" names for songs like hooker with a penis or the pot or stinkfist, but they didn't. I think this serves two purposes 1. It sparks people's interest in the band who may not have given them a second glance. I was in Jr. high when Aenima came out, and at the time it was really cool to have songs I thought were about sodomy. It wasn't until later I saw it as a song about general desensitivity. 2. more importantly, it creates a lighter side to the otherwise very serious subject matter. Adds a little smile to the mix. Whether or not either of these points are specifically premeditated by the band, I don't think for a second it's completely incidental, whatever the reason may be. And for the record i'm not sure about any of my theories. this is the opinion section.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Can I get an amen

[justfar1086]

why are we still talking about this? didnt adam say it was related to the pot and the kettle joke?

[Inner_Eulogy]

<shrug>

[hobblegobble]

hahahaha...

I remember a little birdy on another thread calling people idiots because prison sex was about butt rape.

[Inner_Eulogy]

hahahaha...

I remember a little birdy on another thread calling people idiots because prison sex was about butt rape.

And they still are

[O.G.T.92]

The reference to butt rape in the song prison sex is in the goddamn title.

[Inner_Eulogy]

The reference to butt rape in the song prison sex is in the goddamn title.

First of all, Mr. You ThinkYouHaveAClue, Stinkfist is a reference to FISTING, Secondly, ever heard of a fucking thing called METAPHOR

[Rod]

same goes for buttsex in prison sex... umm, prison sex wasn't even about buttsex, neither where there any obvious correlations between the two. the name maybe? ... oh well.



Interesting. Now I'm not so sure how I should be interpriting these lyrics.

"I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this shit, blood, and cum on my hands."

[latifbp]

The Pot did call the kettle black... but it still gets the ganja folks making SAT analogies all over the place

[O.G.T.92]

First of all, Mr. You ThinkYouHaveAClue, Stinkfist is a reference to FISTING, Secondly, ever heard of a fucking thing called METAPHOR

????? don't know how the point you make differs from what i've stated. my original post was about how i thought some posters only take lyrics literally, not metaphorically as well. Of course stinkfist is about fisting, which is a form of sodomy...... maybe that's what you misunderstood.

[Cheesegreater]

Saying Stinkfist is strictly about fisting isn't entirely true in my opinion. I think it's just double-entendre. Fisting and over-stimulization both.

As for the Pot. I think marijuana is relavant in this song, but just another double-entendre. The pot calling the kettle black and calling out potheads to some degree. You have to realize that Tool likes to compact a lot of meaning into their songs to make it have a greater impact.

[O.G.T.92]

Saying Stinkfist is strictly about fisting isn't entirely true in my opinion. I think it's just double-entendre. Fisting and over-stimulization both.

As for the Pot. I think marijuana is relavant in this song, but just another double-entendre. The pot calling the kettle black and calling out potheads to some degree. You have to realize that Tool likes to compact a lot of meaning into their songs to make it have a greater impact.

Thank you. This was my point, better and more concisely written.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Saying Stinkfist is strictly about fisting isn't entirely true in my opinion. I think it's just double-entendre. Fisting and over-stimulization both.

As for the Pot. I think marijuana is relavant in this song, but just another double-entendre. The pot calling the kettle black and calling out potheads to some degree. You have to realize that Tool likes to compact a lot of meaning into their songs to make it have a greater impact.

Exactly....my point being that I don't think Stinkfist was written about actually fisting though, I think it was meant as more of a metaphor to the desensation of people in general, however..the one guy above mentioned the line "shit, blood and cum on my hands" does seem to lean it back towards the physical aspect of fisting so I guess I'm torn a little on the matter now.

[Cheesegreater]

"Shit, blood and cum" on my hands is from Prison Sex which I'm sure you already know. But that lyric from that song makes me think of the physical aspect as well. If they were so literal on the album before, then Stinkfist could certainly have a literal side to it. But, obviously I lean more towards metaphorical standpoint.

[jevons]

Visual shit, mýah?

All that poop, and all that scoop, and all the blood, and it's just drooping.

[Cheesegreater]

I really do feel he's calling out potheads though. At least to some degree. My friends and I mostly smoke and I remember a friend of mine saying "Do you think that's a rather bold move on Maynard's behalf?" It goes without saying that plenty of people who listen to The Pot smoke it too.
I kinda of thought of it like this. Potheads are good at noticing flaws in our legal system and often have radical progressive views, but they don't seem to be able to truly get together. In other words, they do a lot of calling people out, but they don't really want to put themselves out on a limb most of the time (and this is what I believe) for fear of their own personal flaws being exposed. I could go more in to detail, but I think I've conveyed the general jist.

But I think this theory fits the whole double-entendre message that is obviously in this song.

Spiral out guys

[jevons]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Love and kisses,
Zaphod

P.S. Weed is fucking stupid

[Cheesegreater]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Love and kisses,
Zaphod

P.S. Weed is fucking stupid

Could do without your P.S.


I hate the culture we live in. Let's see... if you smoke pot: You'll run over a little girl at the drive-thru. A baby will drown cause you were away smoking. Your best friend will end up in a wreck. An alien will steal your girlfriend.

All of those have been commercials at some point in the last couple of years. I've debated on the weed issue endless hours. People who don't smoke/won't smoke think they a goddamned better than those who do. Because they've been brainwashed by this "above the influence" wave of propaganda. Futhermore, they think a very few people with dreadlocks and tatoos who live with their moms are the only ones who smoke weed. Anyone who's been to college knows this is a load of shit. They know that they've even had professors who smoke and have been teaching for many years.

I don't smoke cigarettes mind you. and I know that no one likes to discuss vices. ALL ANTI-DRUG COMMERCIALS ARE STRICTLY ABOUT POT AND CIGARETTES these days. Alcohol? No commercials anymore. Drink yourself to liver desease. Crack/Cocaine/amphetamines/Heroine/ecstacy ect... Nothing... The hardest drugs.. there are no commercials about them. I guess I'm the only one that finds this incredibly fucked up, but I am getting so tired of these commercials fucking viciously attacking people who smoke marijuana.

I think Maynard has a mature approach to marijuana. I think he disapproves of it in excess, which is a great policy with anything in life. But to say that he totally hates it or thinks people who smoke it are all stupid is quite a stretch. I mean Justin threw a bag of weed out in the crowd at the Amsterdam show. Would he HATE a fellow band member. No... The answer is no.

In an interview Maynard himself has said that hate isn't a very productive emotion at all. But anger however is one of the most productive. People's misconceptions on marijuana infuriates me, but I don't hate those people. I just want those people to be informed and not just herd together like sheep behind Mr, Mackey's motto "Drugs are bad M'kay." So they can just shake their head and not have to think... cause that would hurt their brains.

[Mr. Electric Ocean]

I am going to be straight up honest here... I do not do drugs... never have been interested in it. I do not have a problem with drugs... I believe that drugs can be used to accomplish things for medicine and enlightenment.

However, I cannot stand the individuals who waste their days away smoking or drinking or shooting up and spending all this money on getting fucked up day in and day out. People have no pace and no purpose. How can you expect to get the full impact of something when you do not know what it can do to you and how to effectively use it to get where it can get you? I can't stand all people who wear their Abercrombie shit and all these fucking frat boys and party hour. There is a difference between using something to an advantage and taking advantage of a material because you cannot escape it naturally.

Don't get me wrong... there are people that out there that do amazing things with drugs and really do something with the experience... but I don't like to see people take advantage of themselves for the sake of a state of mind that they haven't tried to reach without the drug.

I really dont whine about it... I keep my opinion straight forward... to myself for the most part... but isn't anyone sick of seeing people completely trashed and ruining a situation becasue they cannot use proper patience or take their time and do something reponsibly?

I mean its not like this is the only thing I cannot tolerate... I hate our media and how products are sold and the use of sex and male/female bodies as sex appeal and people all doing the same shit as everyone. But sometimes I wish I just heard more people speak out about it.

[<Insertcrypticnamehere>]

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1105674

[Cheesegreater]

I am going to be straight up honest here... I do not do drugs... never have been interested in it. I do not have a problem with drugs... I believe that drugs can be used to accomplish things for medicine and enlightenment.

However, I cannot stand the individuals who waste their days away smoking or drinking or shooting up and spending all this money on getting fucked up day in and day out. People have no pace and no purpose. How can you expect to get the full impact of something when you do not know what it can do to you and how to effectively use it to get where it can get you? I can't stand all people who wear their Abercrombie shit and all these fucking frat boys and party hour. There is a difference between using something to an advantage and taking advantage of a material because you cannot escape it naturally.

Don't get me wrong... there are people that out there that do amazing things with drugs and really do something with the experience... but I don't like to see people take advantage of themselves for the sake of a state of mind that they haven't tried to reach without the drug.

I really dont whine about it... I keep my opinion straight forward... to myself for the most part... but isn't anyone sick of seeing people completely trashed and ruining a situation becasue they cannot use proper patience or take their time and do something reponsibly?

I mean its not like this is the only thing I cannot tolerate... I hate our media and how products are sold and the use of sex and male/female bodies as sex appeal and people all doing the same shit as everyone. But sometimes I wish I just heard more people speak out about it.



I really appreciate this post man. I hope that you didn't take offense to my saying that people who don't ever do drugs think they are better. I stand corrected, I should have said "most people..."
I just want people exactly like you to understand the complexity of people who use drugs. There is a wide array out there, and someone's generalizing and stereotyping can be way off if they know nothing of the drug culture. If someone goes to college in the morning and they work at night, what's wrong with them smoking a joint at home when they get off?
I DO NOT condone even moderate use of "hard drugs" (cocaine,X,meth for instance) because they are SO harmful to the body. You can over-dose and kill yourself on any of those. But if you ever thought a friend was exaggerating when he/she said no one has ever ODed on marijuana; well, they weren't lying just to get you to smoke with them.
I hope you can appreciate the point I'm trying to make. I certainly appreciate yours. I know all to well what it's like to see someone live from one fucking party to another, and it is undoubtedly pathetic.
It seems people are all-to-willing to accept that someone can be a "responsible drinker" but it just waaay beyond them to imagine a "responsible pot-smoker," right? Bullshit, I've known some hardcore type-A personality over-achieving potheads doing quite well for themselves. Why is it hard for some of the masses to understand that people like that are out there? Most likely they haven't tried it or only did it once and didn't like it. That's the equivalent of drinking a glass of wine and saying "I don't like alcohol at all." They simply don't have a frame of reference. I think everyone should know the difference between weed and alcohol, and "hard drugs," there is a world of difference. I have never and will never shoot up. I've experimented and I've never binged on anything aside from drinking with my friends on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and that's rare and in my early college days.
I'm certainly not encouraging people to smoke pot. If you are opposed to it or think that any use of pot is some kind of disgrace to humankind that's fine, just push those feelings onto those who choose to. People know exactly what they are doing when they smoke pot. They know there is a bad stigma. They know there are people out there who despise them just for smoking it. But, believe it or not pot smokers will keep other smokers in check. For instance "Hey man, I haven't seen you in Psychology at all last week. Dude, you might have to stop smoking weed in the mornings. I know I've had to stop. We do have midterms in one week ya know." Impossible to believe? It happens all the time. And if the guys got half a brain he'll say "Fuck man, you're totally right. I'm going to get ready for that test." It seems like some people like to think if you smoke you lose all ability to use logical reasoning and are destined to be a couch-potato for the rest of your life.
On the other hand there is always "some" truth to stereo-types or else they never would have been formed. Therefore, there are lazy, worthless, potheads who play video games all day and never think about their future, and people livin' da ghetto lifestyle, only concerned about their next blunt. I can't stand that kind of behavior anymore than you. It's shitty. It's a cop-out.
But the reason legislation is slowly changing concerning pot is because of this whole argument I've presented. There are plenty of honest, hard-working, up-standing citizens that smoke weed and are sick and tired of being treated like a common criminal. These people don't feel it's too much to demand to not be chastised for a little marijuana for personal use. In my little state of "po-dunk" Arkansas marijuana has been decriminalized in Eureka Springs. And as I'm sure all of you know Arkansas is the bible-belt through and through.
I apologize for the incredibly long post, and I'm sorry if any of my opinions have been too opionated. :)

If there were one thing that the song "the Pot" could do, I wish it would at least make people formulate a more informed understanding of marijuana. So they can look at the subject as a spectrum, and not just group things together and know there are all types out there. Rich to poor, doctor to janitor, liars and lawyers and everything in between. As i said... I appreciate your post, and I didn't mean to offend you in any way.

Peace guys!

[Cheesegreater]

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1105674

Everyone should read this. I made that huge ass post, but this sums it up very well.

Thanks

[jevons]

Could do without your P.S.


I hate the culture we live in. Let's see... if you smoke pot: You'll run over a little girl at the drive-thru. A baby will drown cause you were away smoking. Your best friend will end up in a wreck. An alien will steal your girlfriend.

All of those have been commercials at some point in the last couple of years. I've debated on the weed issue endless hours. People who don't smoke/won't smoke think they a goddamned better than those who do. Because they've been brainwashed by this "above the influence" wave of propaganda. Futhermore, they think a very few people with dreadlocks and tatoos who live with their moms are the only ones who smoke weed. Anyone who's been to college knows this is a load of shit. They know that they've even had professors who smoke and have been teaching for many years.

I don't smoke cigarettes mind you. and I know that no one likes to discuss vices. ALL ANTI-DRUG COMMERCIALS ARE STRICTLY ABOUT POT AND CIGARETTES these days. Alcohol? No commercials anymore. Drink yourself to liver desease. Crack/Cocaine/amphetamines/Heroine/ecstacy ect... Nothing... The hardest drugs.. there are no commercials about them. I guess I'm the only one that finds this incredibly fucked up, but I am getting so tired of these commercials fucking viciously attacking people who smoke marijuana.

I think Maynard has a mature approach to marijuana. I think he disapproves of it in excess, which is a great policy with anything in life. But to say that he totally hates it or thinks people who smoke it are all stupid is quite a stretch. I mean Justin threw a bag of weed out in the crowd at the Amsterdam show. Would he HATE a fellow band member. No... The answer is no.

In an interview Maynard himself has said that hate isn't a very productive emotion at all. But anger however is one of the most productive. People's misconceptions on marijuana infuriates me, but I don't hate those people. I just want those people to be informed and not just herd together like sheep behind Mr, Mackey's motto "Drugs are bad M'kay." So they can just shake their head and not have to think... cause that would hurt their brains.

Ok, my turn. I have done more fucking drugs than it takes to kill pachedyrms. Think of something, anything. Fuck's sake i smoked a cigarette dipped in formaldehyde in grade nine. I have made mistakes.
Yes, your boyfriend has a mature approach to weed; so do i. I happen to think it is a pointless drug. I happen to think you are a douche. These are not products of ''brainwashing'', as you say, i came to this conclusion by observing the differences between my mind functions prior to and after quitting. It was like a fucking cloud was lifted off of my brain: Samurai Jack stopped being my favourite show, i realised burgers were mostly worms, shit, vomit and piss, and most of all, my voice crawled out of the Kurt Cobain dungeon (all credit to Nirvana).
I've been to college, film school, and i've smoked with people who i never would have dreamt of smoking with.
For a pothead, you sure got a lot of penned-up frustration. Are you jerking-off enough?
I know weed doesn't kill people, you are not enlightening me with ''revelations'' from the fucking sixties'. What would weed do for an economy if legalised? Fucking nothing, because everybody and their grandmother would just grow it instead of buying the government shit. Weed has no future in medicine, because it is cheaper than morpheine, and all the other shit they forcefeed cancer patients. You want to smoke it, fine. But one day, when all the potato chips are gone, you'll look around and think: fuck it, i'm too old to have kids... where did the chips go? And who are you? The television will not respond.
Please, tell me more about my misconceptions. Tell me how weed once saved your life, changed your perspective of this reality. Tell me how you couldn't read your own handwriting the next morning. Weed will never be anything more than a pussy little giggle drug.
Thus, is fucking stupid.
Fuck yourself, smart-E pants.

Fuck the hard drugs,
fuck the soft drugs,
fuck the drugs you never get told are drugs,
Take some psychedellics, if you must.
Liquor is poison.

I call it, drugs.

[Cheesegreater]

Ok, my turn. I have done more fucking drugs than it takes to kill pachedyrms. Think of something, anything. Fuck's sake i smoked a cigarette dipped in formaldehyde in grade nine. I have made mistakes.
Yes, your boyfriend has a mature approach to weed; so do i. I happen to think it is a pointless drug. I happen to think you are a douche. These are not products of ''brainwashing'', as you say, i came to this conclusion by observing the differences between my mind functions prior to and after quitting. It was like a fucking cloud was lifted off of my brain: Samurai Jack stopped being my favourite show, i realised burgers were mostly worms, shit, vomit and piss, and most of all, my voice crawled out of the Kurt Cobain dungeon (all credit to Nirvana).
I've been to college, film school, and i've smoked with people who i never would have dreamt of smoking with.
For a pothead, you sure got a lot of penned-up frustration. Are you jerking-off enough?
I know weed doesn't kill people, you are not enlightening me with ''revelations'' from the fucking sixties'. What would weed do for an economy if legalised? Fucking nothing, because everybody and their grandmother would just grow it instead of buying the government shit. Weed has no future in medicine, because it is cheaper than morpheine, and all the other shit they forcefeed cancer patients. You want to smoke it, fine. But one day, when all the potato chips are gone, you'll look around and think: fuck it, i'm too old to have kids... where did the chips go? And who are you? The television will not respond.
Please, tell me more about my misconceptions. Tell me how weed once saved your life, changed your perspective of this reality. Tell me how you couldn't read your own handwriting the next morning. Weed will never be anything more than a pussy little giggle drug.
Thus, is fucking stupid.
Fuck yourself, smart-E pants.

Fuck the hard drugs,
fuck the soft drugs,
fuck the drugs you never get told are drugs,
Take some psychedellics, if you must.
Liquor is poison.

I call it, drugs.

Do you honestly think you would ever not hate me? I personally think you would be incapable because you've already pinned me as someone who devoutly watches Samurai Jack for Christ's sake (which I've always hated.) It seems you want to deny the government has done anything wrong on the war on drugs thus far.

Also, it's pretty egostical for you to attack me when you obviously didn't read the next few posts. You rad mine, became consumed in rage and were determined to tell this "low-life" how much of a fuck-up I really am. And you didn't stop there. You really had to drive it home. Did I ever say "fuck you!" or "you need to jack-off more" or any of ther other hateful fucking bullshit you threw my direction?

Of course you would deny that you mistreated me in any kind of way and that I initiated it and got what I deserved.

I've known people who have never touched so much as a cup of coffee. You would have everyone here believe that I can't stand people like that, and that I am being some sort of pompous ass. Also, I know plenty of people who've stopped smoking after years of doing so... I've quit for a year before, and I know "the cloud being lifted from your brain effect." And when it happens you really want your other smoking friends to share your feelings. Why do you wish to think potheads don't already know this? If somone makes their life center around one thing it will have it's draw-backs. Also, you say hallucinagens or okay and weed is stupid. People have had psychotic breaks and killed themselves on hallucinagens. That is fact... and I'm not even going to compare that to pot.

Did you not read my whole speil about what I thought of ALL the other drugs out there? I want anyone to do what they want to. You seem to want to preach your story of "I've been there, smoked weed with all the cool kats, and had a good ole time, but in hindsight it was messing up my life, and I needed a change." That is truly a great testimony. AND I"M NOT BEING SARCASTIC, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THAT. I really and deeply appreciate that point of view and there are plenty of stupid kids out there not doing jackshit in their lives but getting fucked up and throwing there lives away that need to hear a message like that. And I hope to god you've read this far because I'm truly pointing out some real shit that YOU made an excellent point on.

I don't want us to be at eachothers throats. I have no doubt that you've progressed and done exceedingly well in your studies in college, and I sincerely apologize if you thought I was just trying to toot my arrogant horn and just flame the Hell out of you. I'm not the best college student. I do all right. I've slipped up a couple times, but overall I've been doing all right, and at the stage I'm at now I can only hope things work out for me as they have for you.

For what it's worth, I feel that there are plenty of people who choose to smoke or do whatever drug they desire, and you or I both don't have any place to tell others that we think what they are doing is wrong. We can offer insight, but beyond that people no what they are getting in to.

I know that I had to come off as an ass in my last post and I admit you fueled the fire that made me want to write the post, just as my post fueled to the fire to write yours. You have every right to retalliate for me being a dick. But if it's any consulation I was directing most of my anger towards commercials that teach people to despise others who smoke. Also, those "Truth" commercials irritate me in the same way, and I have never so much as taken one drag off a tobacco cigarette.

Telling me that you want to know how pot changed my life really was a low blow. You knew that if I were to try to respond to that, that you could make me out to be a comlete moron. You've set so many traps for futher ridicule, and I really wish I would have never posted. I feel like I've fallen in the trap of pissing you off to the point that all you can think is "Please provoke me! Please just open your stupid mouth one more time so that I an have the pleasure of cutting you down even futher!" What can result of this but more animosity? Thinking one is more pretentious than the other? It's not worth it.

I'm willing to withdraw everything I've said. I don't feel the need to just upset people. And I feel I've expressed views that people generally don't agree with (at least here), or they just think I'm saying the same shit they've heard for years from others and I'm just offering empty advice. I really don't care at this point,

I apologize Jevon. Fuck man, I never wanted to be your nemesis.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I really do feel he's calling out potheads though. At least to some degree. My friends and I mostly smoke and I remember a friend of mine saying "Do you think that's a rather bold move on Maynard's behalf?" It goes without saying that plenty of people who listen to The Pot smoke it too.
I kinda of thought of it like this. Potheads are good at noticing flaws in our legal system and often have radical progressive views, but they don't seem to be able to truly get together. In other words, they do a lot of calling people out, but they don't really want to put themselves out on a limb most of the time (and this is what I believe) for fear of their own personal flaws being exposed. I could go more in to detail, but I think I've conveyed the general jist.

But I think this theory fits the whole double-entendre message that is obviously in this song.

Spiral out guys


Sounds logical

[Inner_Eulogy]

WHAT THE FUCK CHEESE....I HAVEN'T READ YOUR NOVEL YET...WILL DO SOON BUT, JESUS CHRISTY MAN

[Inner_Eulogy]

Ok, my turn. I have done more fucking drugs than it takes to kill pachedyrms. Think of something, anything. Fuck's sake i smoked a cigarette dipped in formaldehyde in grade nine. I have made mistakes.
Yes, your boyfriend has a mature approach to weed; so do i. I happen to think it is a pointless drug. I happen to think you are a douche. These are not products of ''brainwashing'', as you say, i came to this conclusion by observing the differences between my mind functions prior to and after quitting. It was like a fucking cloud was lifted off of my brain: Samurai Jack stopped being my favourite show, i realised burgers were mostly worms, shit, vomit and piss, and most of all, my voice crawled out of the Kurt Cobain dungeon (all credit to Nirvana).
I've been to college, film school, and i've smoked with people who i never would have dreamt of smoking with.
For a pothead, you sure got a lot of penned-up frustration. Are you jerking-off enough?
I know weed doesn't kill people, you are not enlightening me with ''revelations'' from the fucking sixties'. What would weed do for an economy if legalised? Fucking nothing, because everybody and their grandmother would just grow it instead of buying the government shit. Weed has no future in medicine, because it is cheaper than morpheine, and all the other shit they forcefeed cancer patients. You want to smoke it, fine. But one day, when all the potato chips are gone, you'll look around and think: fuck it, i'm too old to have kids... where did the chips go? And who are you? The television will not respond.
Please, tell me more about my misconceptions. Tell me how weed once saved your life, changed your perspective of this reality. Tell me how you couldn't read your own handwriting the next morning. Weed will never be anything more than a pussy little giggle drug.
Thus, is fucking stupid.
Fuck yourself, smart-E pants.

Fuck the hard drugs,
fuck the soft drugs,
fuck the drugs you never get told are drugs,
Take some psychedellics, if you must.
Liquor is poison.

I call it, drugs.


WOW....it's people like you that fill the world with hate. The other guy was never vindictive towards ones who do not use any form of drugs. I for one, have had my share of experimenting with almost everything as well. Never smoked crack or shot anything up and never will. I have never once even tried to coerce anyone to do anything, if it's not for them it's not for them. I am much older and wiser now and have a 3yr old son. Once in a blue moon I might pull out the pinch hitter and take a puff, what's the big deal. To blindly hate somebody like you apparently do simply because they smoke a little pot or whatever it is they do is just plain illogical. If that's the case then you may as well give away every dollar you have and live as a hermit because almost every dollar bill has cocaine residue and the things you buy, wear and use have at some time been in the hands of somebody doing drugs, or were high when they put it together in the factory. Throw out all your CD's because most of the best music was created by a musician while on one thing or another. You're one close-minded and very angry person. Did mommy and daddy not love you enough?

[Inner_Eulogy]

Cheesgreater, BRAVO <applause> I'm with you all the way on this and I don't think you shoudl withdraw a thing. It was the most well put together thoughts without pointing fingers that I've seen on these threads in a long time.

[hobblegobble]

Agreed, good job. (Hey, who would have thought?)

[jevons]

Ok, ok, i was a little harsh. But I am sick and tired of everyone saying ''weed is alright, it's cool cuz it don't kill no one.'' That is bullshit. Sure, weed never directly killed anyone, but i don't know anybody, ever, in my years as a professional everythingologist have ever seen someone just smoke pot. That whole gateway shit, hate to say it, makes a bit of sense to me.
I am sorry for getting vindictive, it just read as pretensious to me. It is a personal subject and, hate to say it, i am sorry.
There are too many reasons for me to get into, but #1 above all, ichiban of ichiban is, i have never seen anyone become something greater than they were as a result of weed. I have never felt cleverer, more capable, or even fully conscious while stoned. I watched a lot of greatness in my life collapse to drugs (for awhile, eight years, myself), and, for everyone i know, it started with harmless weeds. I will not retract a word beyond the insults, memories insist.
And mommy and daddy did worse than you can imagine, so drop that little nugget off in the toilet, there, Inner_Eulogy.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Ok, ok, i was a little harsh. But I am sick and tired of everyone saying ''weed is alright, it's cool cuz it don't kill no one.'' That is bullshit. Sure, weed never directly killed anyone, but i don't know anybody, ever, in my years as a professional everythingologist have ever seen someone just smoke pot. That whole gateway shit, hate to say it, makes a bit of sense to me.
I am sorry for getting vindictive, it just read as pretensious to me. It is a personal subject and, hate to say it, i am sorry.
There are too many reasons for me to get into, but #1 above all, ichiban of ichiban is, i have never seen anyone become something greater than they were as a result of weed. I have never felt cleverer, more capable, or even fully conscious while stoned. I watched a lot of greatness in my life collapse to drugs (for awhile, eight years, myself), and, for everyone i know, it started with harmless weeds. I will not retract a word beyond the insults, memories insist.
And mommy and daddy did worse than you can imagine, so drop that little nugget off in the toilet, there, Inner_Eulogy.

Not to start a war over the subject, but I must contest: Cleverer is not a word in the english language. That is all.

<hears the South Park Movie song playing in my head> Blaaamme Caanaadaaa

[jevons]

Yes, it is. You Americans really want to start a language war? Go by your ''drive-thru'' first, or check out the ''color'' of your eyes, or, best of all... Go read a fucking dictionary.

You barely even speak English anymore. But real English, the kind which came from England, clearly states that cleverer, cleverest, cleverness, cleverly, and yes, clever are ALL FUCKING WORDS IN THE OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY.

Do not fuck with me about this. Your tail will be between your legs, and i don't like it when tails are between legs, cuz then i can't pull them and run away like a girl giggling.

neighboUr
flavoUr
savoUr

i could go on.

[jevons]

See any Monty Python skit. You know, those brilliantly educated ENGLISH people who make you laugh and think at the same time? See the old Flying Circuis episodes if you still need more proof.

tell your educators to stop killing grammar, it's spreading here like a disease, dead grammar is.

[Esurient4Truth]

what's the point of correct grammer? half the shit we speak now is slang anyway....grammer is already dead. it's revival never coming.

you can't teach an old dawg new tricks, espeically when you C that kidz nowadayz are fucking swashmouthin' curse words < n' >, and it's damned near impossible to understand what we are sayin'. Froshizzle nizzle. L8tr hommie.

[jevons]

Sir, you are everything that is wrong with modern literature. Gutram Malkin gets all the credit in the world for a book written half in text messages, i am broke. I am a better writer than Gutram Malkin. You sir, may be an old dog, but you are also a blind dog. I will not let English go off like some Dodo. My son will have more knowledge of English and an other grammar by the time he is three than you ever will. That is all i can guarantee.

Grammar is the cornerstone to the tone/place/time period/tempo/meter/theme/thesis to any piece of writing; without it you can know almost nothing, except what your play-doh mind deciphers. If that is what you want, why do we have writers and not retarded chimps on peyote just play with etch-a-sketches? (I can see it now: I see a donkey. I see a basketball. I see anal sex.)

The beatnick experiments have gone too far. All credit to them, but what they made is a monster. You are a part of that monster.
Your ignorance will spread, as it always does.
But everything in life is waves, thus, nothing is insurmountable. (refer to Sam905's most recent poem in the poetry section if you still need to know how lost your ''American'' destruction of grammar concept truly is)

I just ended a sentence with a preposition.

You sir, are an idiot.

[Esurient4Truth]

Whoa there cowboy. I wasn't saying that personally --I-- was a part or a believer in this system. Perhaps...I came up wrong. There are no need for insults now. Perhaps I played the joke on the wrong side of the court. None the less, please, no hard feelings.

I took your thoughts and considerations purposefully, as I always do. A lot of what you say is reasonable, if not true.

My point is, is that because society is so separated, there is no possible way that language can be completely unified, thus the short reference to slang. The reason I wrote the message the way I did is to prove this.

People take on characteristics of the world around them. Now, I may come off to you, as I apparently do, as an idiot, but reason with me.

I take it, you expect, society as a whole to be in a literary sense, correct. You expect that society should all be able to read and write with correct language use and grammer, so that we can, in a sense, "evolve" through communication. I don't want to say politically correct, but I might be mistaken. Human beings evolved through language. We communicated. We created meaning. We created verbiage and nouns and adjectives. God gave us the will to speak, thus, we did.

But not everybody stays.

"Our" true language can never be revived. It will only evolve with the people who live it. For example, take kids of the "slums" for example. Walk down the street, if you dare too, and listen to a conversation.

"Man, look at that shit man, that is some fucked up shit."

God almighty if I could strangle that kids throat. To me and you, this is a complete mockery of our language. To him, it's NORMAL.

When you text message, if you text message at all, do you write complete sentences? Most nowadays, we shorten things to:

"Hey, Jesse, Cme ovr @ 3. L8tr!"

It's easier. Even when we instant message online. To people, this is normal. People don't intend to purposely warp thought and language. We don't do it to ruin our sense of the "dictionary," if you catch my drift. We do it because it's normal.

I know things piss you off. I know I probably piss you off (hopefully only a quick outburst). But the only thing I can say, is that in America, in English, due to our lopsided society and misfit education standards, and the major difference between rich and poor and racial differences, amongst types of people (such as rednecks and yankees), and social standards, and due to the fact that by nature (or prejudice bias) that all American's are lazy and uneducated, true English will never be reborn. Unfortunately, at this state, we are evolving at the worst.

Just to clarify, no, I am not a part of the monster. Pardon me for not keeping it professional.

[jevons]

To people, this is a normal aspect of society (the lazy language), of which i refuse to take part. Teachers fail the kids by endorsing a system designed to keep the number of nouveau-riche significantly lower than the number of factory workers. If we had a handful of primary school teachers who weren't so fucking caught up in mommy-ruined-my-life issues that they could actually incite some passion in these kids, this wouldn't be a problem.

Now six-year-olds dress like the whores the really want to be.

Now six-year-olds look up to fucking ******* spitting off insanity about how fucking sick it will be to jizz all over some girl instead of fucking learn something while they drive around in a car worth four hundred missed child support payments for... ''wuteva lil' niggas' name ee-az.''
Fuck this society, i will cry for every one of them when it all goes down. Then i will make sure it never happens again.
There is no excuse for evil, and to rape an entire generation of literature is the worst rape of all. And i grew up in the back of the van.

(Yesterday, a man was sentenced to either life in prison or the death penalty for kidnapping, raping and burying alive an eight-year-old girl. He buried her alive with a stuffed purple dolphin in view of her house.)

This world is insane, and i will not tolerate it for one second longer.

I will love what they have never been.
I will love what they could have been.
I will watch them die.
I will live, and cry.

[jevons]

So let them be, if you want.

Out.

[Esurient4Truth]

This world is insane, and i will not tolerate it for one second longer.

To this I agree, and I finally see where you are going with this.

People perceive reality in what's handed to them, not what it actually is. We follow suit to the ignorant paces of rich men and politics, not of gospel and truth and meaning. We tolerate and accentuate what is wrong. Humans are desensitized, and to this meaning, worthless. We cannot wipe our own asses anymore. It's ridiculous what we are coming to.

But what can we do about this? In my head, I'm thinking one versus 100 million ignorant slaves to society. Now, don't think of this as ignorant, but instead of going out there and trying to "correct," if you will, society, I except. But that doesn't necessarily mean I partake in it (and I don't.)

I do not want to aid support for "worthless" citizens. Down to my heart, I believe that, as I said earlier, you cannot teach an old dog new tricks. It's worthless teaching an ignorant society that doesn't want change. They only want self preservation and belonging among the same people that believe the same things they do.

...what more can be said? I'm me and your you and what we believe cannot be altered by will alone. This goes for other people. But we actually have an understanding for the way things really "are."

So, I stand aside, and watch the crowds from the safe sidelines by the referee I call God.

Pitiful is our race. May God bless them with forgiveness and eternity.

Amen.

[hobblegobble]

I think what's most important is acknowledging this, and resisting temptation to dwell on it.

[jevons]

Your God is in your heart. Forgive them yourself. Do not expect salvation, unless you are providing it and trustworthy.

All together now, hup! ___/

[jevons]

And you've got some stones between your legs if you think you're on any sideline. Those are your people, morons or not, eaters of shit-burgers or not. They are your mothers, fathers, brothers.

I maintain, you sir, are an idiot. And now, a hipocrite.

(Eat snacky smores)

[hobblegobble]

that's a strong statement there Mr. Jevons, you're speaking of compassion yet spewing degrading remarks at the same time...tisk tisk

[Esurient4Truth]

Jevon, I guess we'll never see the same light. Oh well.

[hobblegobble]

i'm going to edit this and put nothing...see....nothing....
















bye

[O.G.T.92]

Sir, you are everything that is wrong with modern literature. Gutram Malkin gets all the credit in the world for a book written half in text messages, i am broke. I am a better writer than Gutram Malkin. You sir, may be an old dog, but you are also a blind dog. I will not let English go off like some Dodo. My son will have more knowledge of English and an other grammar by the time he is three than you ever will. That is all i can guarantee.

Grammar is the cornerstone to the tone/place/time period/tempo/meter/theme/thesis to any piece of writing; without it you can know almost nothing, except what your play-doh mind deciphers. If that is what you want, why do we have writers and not retarded chimps on peyote just play with etch-a-sketches? (I can see it now: I see a donkey. I see a basketball. I see anal sex.)

The beatnick experiments have gone too far. All credit to them, but what they made is a monster. You are a part of that monster.
Your ignorance will spread, as it always does.
But everything in life is waves, thus, nothing is insurmountable. (refer to Sam905's most recent poem in the poetry section if you still need to know how lost your ''American'' destruction of grammar concept truly is)

I just ended a sentence with a preposition.

You sir, are an idiot.

Hey Osama, the world simply is not going to conform to your viewpoint. And you would probably save yourself much grief to give up this crusade. Especially in such an informal setting such as this. This site is not for people to write pulitzer prize worthy material. There are hundreds of people posting here as well as millions of people in America who are more or less satisfied with the English language as it has evolved here. I also dont believe America has butchered the language nearly as bad as the good people of scotland. (see trainspotting) I am curious as to whether or not your hatred is not deeper rooted in the problems you have with our country itself.

[Cheesegreater]

Hey Osama, the world simply is not going to conform to your viewpoint. And you would probably save yourself much grief to give up this crusade. Especially in such an informal setting such as this. This site is not for people to write pulitzer prize worthy material. There are hundreds of people posting here as well as millions of people in America who are more or less satisfied with the English language as it has evolved here. I also dont believe America has butchered the language nearly as bad as the good people of scotland. (see trainspotting) I am curious as to whether or not your hatred is not deeper rooted in the problems you have with our country itself.

I agree... Disdain in our country runs deep, but beneathe the surface, as in we see a lot of problems, but we are at a loss as to how repair them.

Saying remarks like "You sir, are a moron." regarding grammatical errors on an INFORMAL forum is not only rediculous but down-right arrogant. We've all fallen victim to mistreating and being condescending someone. And when we behave in that manner we act like we're not being vindictive by using "tactful" language. In other words, we try to prove our point by pointing out something logical or self-evident while using concise language and all that jazz just so we can "reasonably" degrade someone. Degrading people is bullshit and it's arrogance at it's finest, and there is nothing reasonable about trying to "justify" shitting on someone. I've done it. We all have, but we should at least be capable of recognizing when we are taking what I like to call our "tactful hate" too far. Steer away from arguing and learn to share rather than exploit others for personal gain.

I'm not some Zen Buddhist trying to preach what people already know in the recesses of their brain. I don't know why I write posts like this, but at least it would be nice to have some of the hostility removed from these threads. I hear opinions that I totally disagree with on here all the time, and I try my best not to chastise anyone no matter how misled I feel their conclusions are. It's ok to razz on people here, and call someone a name if it's truly in fun and games, happens all the time, but people need to learn to take a breather sometimes, myself included.

[Cheesegreater]

Jevons... quit trying to turn everything into a fucking argument. It amazes me how shitty people will treat others on these damn things. If you are a fraction as abrasive in real life you must make people around you miserable all the time.

[jevons]

Cheesegreater, this is a message board. Do you want to see what there would be without argument (the engine of change)? Here it is:

Stupid toolfan #1: Huh, isn't tool fucking good?

Stupid toolfan #2: Huh, yep. There deep.

Stupid toolfan #1: Wanna see me act as pretensious as i possibly can whilst jizzing on everyone?

Stupid toolfan #2: You sir, have read my mind.



Arrogance or not, the man is a moron. Refer to my arguments if you need any proof at all.

---------------we are here to argue, our passion keeps us from being complete sheep...

O.G.T 92, you have stuck your dick in the ring, but what have you said? Nothing. You tell me i'm on a crusade, tell me i'm some kind of lone nut because i happen to see a correlation between peoples' behaviour on the news and the shit they have you do and recite in in public schools as children? Take your gold stars of approval and your nap times and shove them up your ass. Your country was built by pirates, so was mine. This is a huge reason for contempt in every facet of life, government etc., and i will not forget it.

----------------------- And, one more time, for the Cheese, who was so marvelous to show up: I WAS NOT FUCKING CRITICISING GRAMMATICAL ERRORS IN THIS POST, BOARD OR NUTHOUSE. I do realise the informality of the settings. I was criticising apathy toward the nullification of conscious thought in North America. Read the fucking posts before you go wasting time.
Thank you all for your little anger intervention.

You are like a bunch of overeducated hippies in the last throws of menopause. Anything, and everything is threatening and evil if it is not a warm blanket... or a cool glass of milk.

Open your eyes. Fangirls. Fanboys. Nothing more.

[jevons]

You know this is a tool website, yeah? A website for tool?

The 5th Dimension/Let the Sun Shine In tribute webpage is somewhere else.

Just so you know.

[jevons]

{quote} but at least it would be nice to have some of the hostility removed from these threads. I hear opinions that I totally disagree with on here all the time, and I try my best not to chastise anyone no matter how misled I feel their conclusions are. It's ok to razz on people here, and call someone a name if it's truly in fun and games, happens all the time, but people need to learn to take a breather sometimes, myself included.[ end of /QUOTE]

The hostility leaves with change. People (with any brain left at all) usually don't get their backs up over nothing.

Give your heads a shake. Now, if possible, lets' get me down off this cross, and perhaps back to the discussion/argument at hand.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a lighter note, (Maynard is using colloquialisms in the Pot to reference the ''mother'' perspective.)

[jevons]

that's a strong statement there Mr. Jevons, you're speaking of compassion yet spewing degrading remarks at the same time...tisk tisk

And what would you have me do, miss Gobbles? Watch another Human being pretend like those fools (who actually do eat shit, Fast Food Nation, page 1!), those lost souls are not one in the same with every one of us?

You would have me say that because someone understands the concept of a third eye, they are somehow entitled to a free pass when it comes to accountability?
Not bloody likely.

This is the fundamental flaw with education. Anyone who learns anything new is more than likely to start pretending they are in a special place, a place of their own, where judgement can be passed and none can be recieved.

Hogwash.

We are always in this together. My anger comes from the fact that people would rather comment on a persons temperment than do their best to help humanity.

I am not just being a prick, but if we are to get through what is to come, we will need sturdier backs than this.

One in the same. We are one in the same. I was not born an angry, contemptuous jackass. We are one in the same. We are one in the same.
Fucking get it yet?

----queue the avalanche

[hobblegobble]

eek! No need to get defensive here, maybe you should read my post again ;o)

[Inner_Eulogy]

Yesterday, a man was sentenced to either life in prison or the death penalty for kidnapping, raping and burying alive an eight-year-old girl. He buried her alive with a stuffed purple dolphin in view of her house.)

That's one thing I completely have issues with in this country about the law for criminals of such acts. FUCK life in prison, the justice system should be an eye for an eye. That man should be fucking raped, beaten, tortured for hours and then burned alive. GOD FORBID THAT EVER HAPPENED TO MY CHILD. I will most definately be the one serving that man's justice.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Ya' know what else pisses me off?!!?? I'm by far not a racist in any way shape or form but this whole recent apology for slavery thing is a bunch of bullshit. I've grown up with almost all my friends being black or hispanic and knowing their families quite well. And not a fucking one of them was a slave, nor were their grandparents. The racial issue today has become such a fucking double standard it's pathetic. On behalf of the white people...we're sorry, now fucking get over it. I know racism isn't completely wiped off the planet yet, it may never be but, it's pretty rare these days. I've never been racist, my 1st girlfriend/first kiss was black. But it's ok for a black comedian to sit there and fucking make fun of the uptight nerdy white guys (stereotype, mind you) but god for fucking bid a white comedian made a joke about a (stereotypical) black man or woman. There would be riots out the wazoo. Or these apparitions (or whatever they called it) where the goverment is supposed to pay large sums of money to families that they're great great great somebody was a slave. Anything for an easy dollar right? You know there's just as many fucking white minorities as there are blacks and hispanics. Or how we should remove the word god from the pledge of allegiance because some muslims are upset. This is FUCKING AMERICA, you don't like it, get the fuck out. I'd like to rant some more but I must get back to work....some of us actually work for a living.

[hobblegobble]

dude...a-fucking-men

[Cheesegreater]

Yeah, I definitely have to work for a living. Sometimes I post late at night cause I can't get to sleep and my job keeps me working late. I know that this world can be a miserable little shit-hole, but like hobble said "It's best to acknowledge that, but not dwell on it." That's a good policy. It's not saying "I don't give a shit" it's saying "I'm not letting this get the best of me."

I'm aware that forums require argument. There are different kinds of arguing though. If you read my last post I was talking about people who like to "tactfully degrade" someone. That's not only arguing because it produces all kinds of needless friction. Think about it... you're having a perfectly reasonable argument and the subject is lost because people have to defend their intellect and grammar usage. I know we all love friction and proving our point so well that it makes others squirm with a feeling of inadequacy, but all I'm saying is that we can argue with a little less friction.

[hobblegobble]

agreed Cheese. When I read those posts, I don't pay attention to the good parts, all that stands out is the degrading remarks people make to each other. I'm just as guilty though, i've learned my lesson (obviously), but I did that crap all the time. Now I see how ridiculous it is, seeing it from others.

[Inner_Eulogy]

agreed Cheese. When I read those posts, I don't pay attention to the good parts, all that stands out is the degrading remarks people make to each other. I'm just as guilty though, i've learned my lesson (obviously), but I did that crap all the time. Now I see how ridiculous it is, seeing it from others.

You have learned well young grasshoppa

[hobblegobble]

lol thank you masta...wise wise masta

[jevons]

When someone close to me had their life fall apart, the first thing they did was put up a baby picture of themselves.

The black and white really sticks in my head; the fat cheeks, they stick with me as well.

[O.G.T.92]

And what would you have me do, miss Gobbles? Watch another Human being pretend like those fools (who actually do eat shit, Fast Food Nation, page 1!), those lost souls are not one in the same with every one of us?

You would have me say that because someone understands the concept of a third eye, they are somehow entitled to a free pass when it comes to accountability?
Not bloody likely.

This is the fundamental flaw with education. Anyone who learns anything new is more than likely to start pretending they are in a special place, a place of their own, where judgement can be passed and none can be recieved.

Hogwash.

We are always in this together. My anger comes from the fact that people would rather comment on a persons temperment than do their best to help humanity.

I am not just being a prick, but if we are to get through what is to come, we will need sturdier backs than this.

One in the same. We are one in the same. I was not born an angry, contemptuous jackass. We are one in the same. We are one in the same.
Fucking get it yet?

----queue the avalanche

Jevons, I love you. we agree on seemingly little, but your posts really do entertain me. I am happy when I see you have posted a reply on a thread i'm on. And in a bold step towards mutual tolerance I will tell you an accomodating opinion I have about England (I think that's where you're from)..... England has produced far many more great rock bands than America. (even tool has Justin) I realize this could start a whole other thread, but I couldn't resist. And I dare anyone to criticize this point. Gotta get rid of that damn royal family though, they are no more than a rediculous welfare case. And finally, I challenge you, sir, to say something flattering about America. Be well.

[O.G.T.92]

My subsequent apology to jevons, I looked and found you are canadian. Hence, I shall make a separate comment about Canada as a bold step toward mutual tolerance....... I hear you have the worlds finest strip clubs. But I still want to hear you say something nice that you respect America for. Thank you.

[jevons]

America...

Hmmm?

Am...er...eee...ca...?

Hmmm....?

Your countries' soldiers have larger mandibles than my country will ever have. You are like a leper... y'know? Like, bits falling off the outside while the center remains warm and cozy and rich.

I've mentioned the whole softwood lumber thing, yeah?

{You are great at usurping reality, transmutating (i know of the origins of the word, i am not quoting tool, i am quoting Lemark) it into what fifty people think it is; you are champs at that.}

You are also great at making shelters outside your perimeters where a modicum of free information and brain damage can exist, and great parties exist in those shelters.

Those, sir, are great things about America.

So i guess i should thank you for permitting such an abortion of life, as well as for finding me amusing. You know, that's why i'm here-- to be a clown, you know, a clown to dance for you-- to make you fucking happy.

Don't bother thinking, it'll hurt.

[jevons]

I love you too.

[O.G.T.92]

I see.........thank you.

[jevons]

I didn't mean to disparage you directly. I was drunk and began to consider you America.

I don't know how to feel just now.

[O.G.T.92]

How can you overlook the wright brothers inventing the first airplane, or Henry Ford's use of mass production, or Microsoft making computers so easy to use. Or Thomas Edison with the light bulb. I could go on and on. I think America is very very flawed in its past and present, but there still is a lot of things we have given the world in the last hundred years that deserves the world's respect. BTW, have you published anything? Do you write fiction or non?

[jevons]

You are kidding, yeah?

Henry Ford is a good thing, yeah?

Thomas Edison, yeah?

Edison's original light bulbs still burn today; his concept was bought out by General Electric and his design was replaced with a tungsten (far more temporary) replacement to the infinite (by comparison) original.

Edison's bastardisation was perfected by a Nazi sympathizer named Henry
Ford. He made a perfect system of exploitation by way of the assembly line. This design put people in service of a greater machine, which had one purpose: make Henry Ford money.

What the fuck are you talking about?

P.S. we flew before the Wright bros.
And better.

[jevons]

And sir, if you find some greatness to mr. Billiam Gates' finding a means to control the electronic universe through exploiting a simple system on which it must depend (DOS), then go ahead.

Bill Gates is a pirate.

[jevons]

Maybe i'll take over air...



In Russia, back in the day, there was only 1 kind of car; the car sucked. i have no idea why that came to mind.

[Cheesegreater]

I don't like America much either, and I live here. But you seem to be one of those guys who feels "everything is better in my country." I think Canada is in much better shape than America, but there's know need to smear it in our faces. We're in a stupid war. Bill gates did create a system that everyone could use, and the fact of the matter is he was a pioneer and most pioneers change the landscape like that. I don't think he even dreamed how big his idea was going to be back in his college days.


Man, I doubt you would have ever seen this American commercial but it was hilarious.

(takes place in 70s)

"So, what is it?"
"It's called a silicon chip. It'll change eveything. All we need is a 300 dollar investment to get started. Are you in?"
He looks at it and rubs his chin... "Sorry guys, I already have plans for my money."

Then the commercial guy "Ever made a bad investment?"

Next shot is the same guypassing by them in his car all smiling and shit "Hey look guys! New 8-track player!"

[jevons]

Very wrong sir. I have as much loathe for the way my country is run as yours. Our Prime Minister is a limp-dicked weasel, we have an education system with more holes in it than a sex-crime victims' leggings, and it seems to be the flavour of the future for every new immigrant to care more about the latest distraction than anything resembling national appreciation.

My country is the new whore of Babylon. There was a government office worker recently charged in a sex-for-citizenship scandal.
5,000 Romanian strippers are brought in every year to work within a one-mile radius of the House of Commons. (where most of the govm't works.)
An illiterate hockey player was appointed to the Senate years ago.
One senator, who earns $150,000 annually (give or take) for his ''work'', lives on a fucking boat in the Caymans and hasn't been to Canada since 1999 (a long time to say ''oh, it's all good'', don't you think?
Robert Picton is about to go to jail for the rest of his life for killing 46 hookers at his pig farm outside Vancouver. He will go down as one of the most ''prolific'' sick fucking raping, murdering assholes ever to steal clean air from little cuddly puppies.

So it's the same up here in our igloos, except you give us black eyes and we tell the neighbours we fell down some stairs.

What's to be expected, i should probably ask myself.

We should all move to the Netherlands, they expect you to speak the language if you're going to live there, so at least you have a chance of being on the same page. Plus they look really left wing, so it'll seem cool.

Until you notice all the cameras...

Fuck it, i'm staying here.

I hope you have found me entertaining.

[Cheesegreater]

Seems to be the same any country you go to. You don't have to title people here with "Sir" lol...

An Indian friend of mine says its the same everywhere you go. He said when congress got the opportunity to give themselves a raise they said "yes" and "no" to raising minimum wage in the same month. They are already rich and they deny the poorest in our country a raise in wages while passing the motion to get more money to fill their own fat pockets. He said it's just the same in India. We're becoming more globally networked as too our problems are following suit. These are global issues.

Yes, I did find your post entertaining. Take care guys, must go for awhile.

[jevons]

I say sir because it's fuken funny, and if we did, i'd be the sir around here, so watch your fucking mouth, soldier.

And you probably don't have to ethnicize your friends: My black friend, my Indian (Native) friend, my lesbian friend, my friend who likes to fuck guys, my friend with the shit-eating grin, my angry friend Jack and so on. (IMHO!!!)

Hey, i wonder when the bull-dykes are going to have the first letter of lesbian capitalised, so that they can get tax breaks or something...

EDIT: my mom is a lesbian, i don't hate them. i just find the word bull-dyke high-larious business.

Don't get mad.

Seriously, though, do you think they could claim themselves as a race? (if they can get married for tax breaks {nothing to do with love, they wanted to pay less money}, who's to say...)

[O.G.T.92]

I liked that he described his friend. It gave me a clear visual image. Then I wondered exactly what type Indian he was referring to, maybe a native american, but most likely one from India, as he mentioned he has done some traveling. I am in strong favor of more colorful descriptions of the poster's reference points. I would think you, Jevons, would be in agreement given your literary persuasion and obviously fertile imagination. And lesbians definitely could not become a separate race........you inferred that you were serious about that. And even if they could, how would that prevent them from getting married? Interracial marriage is already tolerated. Not sure where you were going with that one. And finally, sir is not funny. You beat that horse to death a long time ago. Ass.

[jevons]

I don't know where you've been for the last three years, sir, but a lot of people have been speaking in the free press on the subject of gay marriage. On the surface, it appears to be a quest to be recognized in the eyes of God as a legitemate union. The truth is, it is for the tax breaks.

''Literary persuasion'' has nothing to do with my like or dislike of a description. I was just being inquisitive. I wanted to see what the authour thought of my suggestion, perhaps we might have found a better topic of discussion than the majority of the shit in here.

Then you came along, sir.

Might just be me, but when i am reading a story, i look for a thesis, which has very little to do with who the person is, in this case. If i'm getting baking advice, i'll get it from a baker. If im getting life advice, all they have to do is be alive, and i'll listen. Again, i was just trying to incite a discussion.

Nice try, but you'll have to drag your knuckles a little deeper in the ground next time, fucksickle.

[jevons]

And what part of ''I think it's fuken funny'' didn't you get? I = me. You = douche. It's and easy concept: i do what makes me happy, you stuff vinegar and water into vaginas.

Sir, do you dig?

[Cheesegreater]

I think what makes people skin crawl when you speak is that you are not only sometimes but always fucking condescending and arrogant. Look up the defintions of these words and read your previous posts please, sir. Your use of "sir" is nothing but an empty gesture. It's nothing more than a condescending ploy you use that makes you appear tactful on the surface. It's cute; it's been done for a long damned time. Here's the formula: For instance, "With all due respect, sir... (insert the most rotten disrepectful garbage like "you're a fucking idiot.") and lean back and play coy. It's the same hypocritical bullshit you perform by starting a statement with a sign of respect (sir) and dissin' someone. You are also very "hyper-critical" (yes I said hyper.)

I didn't have to ethnicize? Please spare me that garbage. I was referring a friend that made a statement about my country then followed with a statement about how it is the same in his country. I was being informative, dick, not racial profiling.
I believe you could go on no end about our problems and how the world is fucked. You act like a "know-it-all" which doesn't mean that you indeed know it all. Let me explain, it means that anytime someone tries to make a point or throw some conjecture around you have to explain to them how they are misinformed. You have to make other points that always undermine what the previous person said.
Would you deny this habit of yours? It makes interaction with you very abrasive (feel free to skip around and "I can be however I want! whateva!)

Also, I try to be civil with you and nice... so far as to say "Yeah, you entertained me." What for? More scatheing condescending remarks? Directly or indirectly why the hostility?

[Reagunn]

Your use of "sir" is nothing but an empty gesture. It's nothing more than a condescending ploy you use that makes you appear tactful on the surface.
My old, gay neighbor calls me "Sir" all the time, but it ain't condescending, he's just looking for a little prison sex, so I guess it's all in the usage.

I didn't read the whole thread, that just jumped out...on to the topic, and it may have already been stated, but I'm somewhat confident that "Prison Sex" is about the cycle of child molestation/abuse, as the abused grows up to be an abuser.

I have no fucking clue what "The Pot" is about.

[Cheesegreater]

It IS all in the usage, you're right about Prison Sex, and I honestly still don't know what the fucking Pot is about.

[Cheesegreater]

And what part of ''I think it's fuken funny'' didn't you get? I = me. You = douche. It's and easy concept: i do what makes me happy, you stuff vinegar and water into vaginas.

Sir, do you dig?

Reagun... Do you see what I mean about usage? It's insulting but it's okay cause it's so cute and funny!

[jevons]

Dear Cheesegreater,

Ok, let's put a little yellow band on my arm next. Recruit haters all you want. Your analysis of my use of sir (which is complete asswater) aside, it was you, i believe who found these posts entertaining; if it wasn't you, your names became confused the last time you all got your backs up over fucking nothing.
If you would rather sit here and stroke each others' fucking egos, fine. Enjoy the silence.
I was just wondering about your decision to mention the ethnicity, was hoping it would incite a discussion.
Instead, you act like a fucking crybaby.
So, enjoy your threads, sir.

The Pot, if you need a singular meaning, is Judith giving Maynard hell for thinking he is somehow in a position to tell her he knows better in Wings, with undertones of the Hopi Indians being denied entry at the UN, with undertones of the American melting pot concept.
Find a line that doesn't correspond to that theory.

i don't need a fucking dictionary for pee-wee's playhouse.
signed,
arrogant and condescending

[Esurient4Truth]

:) Opening Smiley....ahh....the silence.

My old, gay neighbor calls me "Sir" all the time, but it ain't condescending, he's just looking for a little prison sex, so I guess it's all in the usage.

I didn't read the whole thread, that just jumped out...on to the topic, and it may have already been stated, but I'm somewhat confident that "Prison Sex" is about the cycle of child molestation/abuse, as the abused grows up to be an abuser.

I have no fucking clue what "The Pot" is about.

I love how this guy just melds this in and he gets no attention. Golf clap to the irony in this statement. It's like Arlington Road. You watch the movie, and think the good guy is gonna win in the end. Instead, what!? He gets blown to hell. It's like this statement. He makes a "racial" (perhaps more sexual) comment on an ongoing subject, but then comes in with a seemingly, almost funny "I have no fucking clue about the pot." I honestly think thats hilarious. Maybe it's just me... Yeah probably.

Dude, this guy deserves more credit than any of us combined.

Dear Cheesegreater,

Ok, let's put a little yellow band on my arm next. Recruit haters all you want. Your analysis of my use of sir (which is complete asswater) aside, it was you, i believe who found these posts entertaining; if it wasn't you, your names became confused the last time you all got your backs up over fucking nothing.
If you would rather sit here and stroke each others' fucking egos, fine. Enjoy the silence.
I was just wondering about your decision to mention the ethnicity, was hoping it would incite a discussion.
Instead, you act like a fucking crybaby.
So, enjoy your threads, sir.

The Pot, if you need a singular meaning, is Judith giving Maynard hell for thinking he is somehow in a position to tell her he knows better in Wings, with undertones of the Hopi Indians being denied entry at the UN, with undertones of the American melting pot concept.
Find a line that doesn't correspond to that theory.

i don't need a fucking dictionary for pee-wee's playhouse.
signed,
arrogant and condescending

Jevons, you're honest. I like honesty. We may bitch and complain and gripe. We may get off subject. Whose there to set us straight? You are. Hoorah to the soldiers. My hat is off to you man. You may be the most ignorant condescending asshole on the planet, but you speak truth, so to that, I uneasily bow. Hurray!

Anyway....
About the Pot, since you love to keep on topic, I actually totally agree. I look at it this way:

"Wings for Marie" = Funeral. "The Pot" = Remembering. "Lipan Conjuring" = Disobeying his mother from the pot. "Rosetta Stoned" = Events that took place after he disobeyed doing drugs. "Intention and Right in Two" = Perhaps his mothers religious teachings (still trying to meld how it fits in with the "story.")

If I seem like I'm copying Jevons, I'm not. I haven't been reading all of the posts.

[jevons]

Holy fucking ChristBurger, pickle my Yanti, a compiment, of sorts.

Can we apply this funeral and rememberance concept to the fact that this album, in all likelyhood, is the last tool album (i've done more homework and found that Salival counts as a real album, so i was way off on that. All an album needs is some new material, so i was wrong) and therefore is far more apocalyptic in nature than we give credit at present?

Could right in two be the fall of man and the children booking it to the forest to live with Spirit once again?

Is Lipan Conjuring more inline with the Night of the Red Sky Prophecies?

Are my socks on upside-down?

[Esurient4Truth]

I've agreed with the funeral setting all along. However, Vicarious seems to be the only song that doesn't fit. Think about, vicarious is about tragedy...wait a minute. Maybe metaphorically, he's calling Judith's death a tragedy? Hmmm.....my head hurts.

Answers to your questions?
1.) No - I think Tool will stay around. Why would they disappoint the fans? (money?)
2.) Plausible - Metaphorically yes, literally no
3.) Plausible - Clarify
4.) Upside-down or inside-out?

[jevons]

Upside-down, the heel is on the top. I haaaate that.

Vicarious, hmmm. If we weren't all so hooked on living through others' pain, we might be better equipped to deal with the tragedies of our own life.



?




I've seen some of the most abhorrent behaviour in my life at funerals during high school; the whole fucking school (2,000 kids) turned into a fucking soap opera.

Perhaps it connects vicariously, no pun intended, in a deputed sense.
Gnaw mane?

[Cheesegreater]

I agree with your last post Jevons. I have friends who are just "so sure" they'll releaase another album. All I can say to them is "That would be awesome, but I highly doubt they'll produce another one."

I also can see how "Right in Two" is a great way to end a wonderful career and leave people thinking.

I don't know about a whole album, but I can see Tool giving us some more goodies. Maybe a live DVD will come out finally. They say they're going to compile the best shows of this year for a DVD. That would be awesome.

*pretends to forget previous posts*

If there's a lump at the top of your sock, swing it around to your heel. ;)

[jevons]

Viginti Tres (60) is an even better way to end a body of work, wouldn't you agree?

*Never forgets much, or pretends to.*

Life is also harsh, downright mean and unfair at times but it has lessons.

But i will try not to be a dick, so often.

[Cheesegreater]

Junior High we had a suicide. I knew the kid but wasn't close. When he died, naturally everybody was his "best-friend." Either that or completely insensitive, wanting to know all the gory details. We all love drama. I see it a lot in Vicarious. My mother has a problem with watching "Cold-Case Files" and Court TV (of course the news) too much, and I think that in some ways Vicarious is directed at people like her. She always feels compassion for the people, and feels sad seeing the tragedy others face, but yet she can't turn away. I know this is a bold statement, but I feel that Vicarious just points out how we like the rape/murder stories and so on. We love a show about a junkee that can't seem to get his life together and tragically dies in the end. We just feed on tragedy because in some way it makes us feel better. We can say, "at least I'm not that guy." or "I'm glad I'm better off than that."

[Cheesegreater]

Viginti Tres (60) is an even better way to end a body of work, wouldn't you agree?

*Never forgets much, or pretends to.*

Life is also harsh, downright mean and unfair at times but it has lessons.

But i will try not to be a dick, so often.

Very appreciated Jevons. I don't know if I entirely agree. I read the thread about what's really being said in that tract and it makes my head fucking spin. No one seems to know. I mean, I haven't slowed it down or played it in reverse, but the people who do come up with all kinds of results.

[jevons]

Like ASSSISCOOOOOO, or, ACK-SISQUOOOOOOO, or, AAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSCCCCC CCCAAAAAAAAAAAA. bEEP bEEP.

FUCKING WITH TOOL'S FINISHED PRODUCT IS FUCKING STUPID. FEEEEEEL THE SONG, ANALYSE WHAT THEY GAVE YOU, i think the Intension ''stay in school, your mother was right'' joke has failed in teaching kids to think with their minds and hearts, and not their audio editing programs.

[Inner_Eulogy]

How can you overlook the wright brothers inventing the first airplane, or Henry Ford's use of mass production, or Microsoft making computers so easy to use. Or Thomas Edison with the light bulb. I could go on and on. I think America is very very flawed in its past and present, but there still is a lot of things we have given the world in the last hundred years that deserves the world's respect. BTW, have you published anything? Do you write fiction or non?

Edison didn't actually invent the light bulb...he ma be the man recognized for it but he stole the work from a colleague. Nikola Tesla...now THAT man was a genius.

[O.G.T.92]

Edison didn't actually invent the light bulb...he ma be the man recognized for it but he stole the work from a colleague. Nikola Tesla...now THAT man was a genius.

Alas, we are both wrong:
http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/edison.asp
Tesla isn't even mentioned here. And Edison did have over a thousand patents, which earns my respect.

As for the gay marriage issue Jevons brought up, I realize it is in the news, and I am in favor of gay rights. My opposition was to your claim of them being declared a separate race of people, which is preposterous. They would still be human you ding-dong. And I don't think the word "fucksicle" has two "k"'s in it. And It was I who claimed you to be the most amusing poser.... I mean poster here. It's like watching a mentally challenged child trying to align simple shapes to fit in thier respective holes.

[jevons]

Poser?

Re-read the gay marriage bit. It was a sarcastic remark at contemporary thought processes. Way to string simple letters into words into ideas, there.
What have you brought to the table? Ever.
You treat this like a fucking bridge club meeting.

Circle peg in the round hole,
you say what?
Call me Osama again, cuz that's like, totally original.
Congratulations on doing your own thing: lurking around the 10,000 days section waiting for someone to agree with.

Gotta give that a try sometime.

Fuck

[Inner_Eulogy]

Alas, we are both wrong:
http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/edison.asp
Tesla isn't even mentioned here. And Edison did have over a thousand patents, which earns my respect.

Edison has my respect as well but, the fact of the matter is that he stole the light bulb from a collegue, look it up, I can't remember the guy's name but yes, he stole it and copyrighted it before the other guy could. And I never said Tesla should be mentioned in regards to Edison, just that the man was a genius in his own right. You should do some reading on Tesla if that subject matter interests you.

[jevons]

his name was jevons.

The General Electric bought ''Edisonsan's'' patent and weakened the design so the filament (tungsten changed from carbonized cotton filament) would not last.

The Ladas sucked in Russia because there was no competion.

Things suck over here because there's no competition.

Funny how the cold war's over, eh?

[buzzo]

Viginti Tres (60) is an even better way to end a body of work, wouldn't you agree?

care to shed a little light on the viginti tres 20 3's...which is sixty...but what does that mean...or your views on 'ascisco' or point me to another post if it's already been discussed
...also blair refered to 10,000 days as a 'decoy' album? wtf? when he was bitching about the conan o'brian show covering 'the pot'

[Esurient4Truth]

I thought Viginti Tres was 23, not 20 3's... Clarify.

[jevons]

Alright, ignorance brought me back. Breathe. In Latin, if i wanted to write 23, it would be vigintitres. This song, however, is Viginti Tres, or twenty (Viginti) threes (tres). Twenty threes is sixty. So fuck your #23 bullshit and let's move on to something else.

The absence of a space means nothing is multiplied or directly connected; connection is the base for Latin addition and counting.

[Reagunn]

:) He makes a "racial" (perhaps more sexual) comment on an ongoing subject, but then comes in with a seemingly, almost funny "I have no fucking clue about the pot." I honestly think thats hilarious. Maybe it's just me... Yeah probably.

What?
Where's the irony, what's "racial"?
I made three concise statements.
1. My gay neighbor calls me "Sir" because he wants to fuck me, he told me so himself, several times.
2. "Prison Sex" is about child molestation.
3. I have no fucking clue what "The Pot" is about.

It was just a fuck around of a post, so I guess it doesn't matter all that much, but I just have to know how you interpreted it that way.

[jevons]

Well fuck your fuck of a post, the new Pope is the antichrist, and i am finally back from the night of the living Probed.

So there's a fuck of a post.

[Ghostwriter]

Tool has always partially pandered to the un-intellectual music lovers as well as the highly over-analyzing fans. It's nothing new, and everyone seems confused . They do both things simultaneously and always have. Even the name of the band heh heh heh.....tool.

eh... : (