The Hidden 'God'

[-Phantom Pain-]

this was posted on the Albums > Lateralus > Lateralus forum


but i think this actually belongs here :)



if you see closely to the second man that has the brain..well look closely to the brain and it says GOD.Pretty Cool.

http://toolshed.down.net/pix/lat/lateraluscdslev5.jpg

[Comebackrunning]

Maybe this represents Faaip de Oiad (the voice of god) in mans head?

And if so, maybe the other layers represent other songs?

or maybe not i dunno

[Chuckhawk]

A reoccouring theme in tool's music is that there is divinity in each of us. Maybe thats what its about?

When I first saw it I thought it meant, "God is just in your head," but now I don't know.

[Reso]

It says about this in the FAQ.

Yes

Yes

Yes

[interpretation]

man, what was the first guy to spot that on?

[flanders]

I think that rather than the last image representing god, it is all the layers together forming god. All the layers together show the divinity in all of us. Least thats what I think anyways!

[Professor Frink]

damn... I looked for probably 5 minutes for that, but I had been looking at the 1st brain pic. heheh.

[freedom]

it could mean that now-a-days people need to look deeper and deeper into themselves to find thier own 'God'. We've become so brainwashed by media and such that it's harder to find what we want and what we think.
maybe...

[Naokly]

...Or maybe it means God is a part of our brain.

[IC]

well, i think its there because to everyone, they all have a question in mind: what happens when I die? Is there god?

[mike tyson]

Originally posted by freedom
it could mean that now-a-days people need to look deeper and deeper into themselves to find thier own 'God'. We've become so brainwashed by media and such that it's harder to find what we want and what we think.
maybe...

Brilliant thought, at least I think so, great interpritation of the hidden GOD thing. I think it may mean that God is always on peoples minds, and perhaps we should all question 'God' or maybe just its there to show that it is supremely on everyones mind at some time or another.

[ry.]

i think that the "hidden" god is a statement about god's existance or lack thereof. the "god" in the picture symbolizes that "god" is a part of our brain. some kind of subconscious being, in which "god" is not the "god" that churches feed us, but rather a subconscious "being" there to help us along and give us impulse.

[GregoryWohlwend]

Not that this has anything to do with the above topic, but it is friday the 13th and i was perusing the board and came across this thread which had 666 views. Kind of crazy, recently i have been noticing many weird things that seem a little too convenient, this is in fact no exception.

god is in your head, anything that has the power to create such an existence as we are experiencing is far greater than any human can comprehend as a god. to define divinity only allows for the stoppage of searching for that divinity, leave it open and always ask and look for new angles.

here is some of my newest art.

http://wu.sw0bes.com/eyeofthebeholder.htm

[shade13]

The basic idea of many theurgists, is to find God, by connecting to your own higher self. You basically connect to the 'god mind' by connecting to your own higher mind. It's surprisingly simple at its core.
The truth of the matter is, God, the creator of all of existence, created our minds, in the image of it's mind. To understand how the god mind works, you have to understand how your mind works. Also, know that your mind is the representation of God's mind. Whatever sick and twisted, or boringly benal thought you have, god has this thought also.
Your thoughts, my thoughts, are given to us, by god. You cannot see a thought before it arrives, or watch its path after it goes, but the simple truth is, it came from, and returned to divinity. Much like your very spirit.

[3rd eye]

This particular peice (the word 'god' in the material structure of the brain) has me rather confused however I beleive there could be a few possible explanations on what this really means.....
On the assumption that I beleive tool strongly beleive in the existence of "God', maybe so not in the traditional, conventional way of thinking, but more so as an entity responsible for the thruth and spiritual growth within ourselves.....so in a sense, we have to tap into this part of our minds.....
The first thing that came to my mind once I discovered this image was the subtle hint at dualism. Ie mind as a seperate object as opposed to the body, in which may be purely physical with no spiritual aspect. The title track hints at this as I'm sure u are all aware.....I wouldn't think tool would advocate a purely materialist outlook on life in this sense as the emphasis on holy moments really do not support the materialist argument of their being no spiritual phenomena, no God, and no ideas to convey the random experiences we encounter....
Maybe I'm getting a bit sidetracked here, but to summarize maybe tool is trying to get acroos the idea that there is a god within us all, and if we embrace this fact and all that it entails, it may be the messiah within ourlseves that could lead us to the promised land. I don't think it is a symbolic representation of faith in the religious god, that is transcendent over humanity, but rather an inward universe (our minds) that is really all we have access to......
I could easily understand this piece of art becomming extremely controverial if certain religious followers cottoned on to this....and if so things would get even more interesting.....
another idea that I should try and explain and a very easy one at that is with god being written within the mind, it could be symbolic of the spiritual component of the mind, one in which God can influence and communicate through our own consciousness, but not the physical body.....

p.s. on the next and last page, the four 'symbols' I beleive could possibly represent the 4 sources of the universe according to the egyptian qabala, ie fire, water, air, earth

[the reverend]

Ive always wondered at the significance of the last page in the booklet..
The previous post about the 4 elements seems to make sense but does any one else have any ideas as to what it symbolises...??

[Chuckhawk]

It could mean "god is hidden somewhere deep within this album."


Maybe... but that seems more like the job of Merkaba.

[3rd eye]

it seems similar to the double dorje, with the middle "light" representing enlightenment, but also maybe the filth element of the universe, "spirit".

[evilentity]

Those interested in this discussion should check out this post

http://toolshed.down.net/opinion/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1737

[im not summable]

i think the "hidden" god is tool's way of saying that god is all that people think about and people need to open themselves up to other things rather than being consumed by just one.

[ThreeDeviations]

Another thing...
The arteries are blue and the veins are red.
(It's typically the other way around)

Not sure if this has any significance.

[nwimnthng0]

i think it represents the fact that God is hidden deep inside our thoughts, for instance our third eye is hidden away where some of us have easier access to it and some not so easy. Depending on the being, the third eye is used occasionally, or used accidentally at the thought of something occuring. Since humans are currently unable to access the full potential of their brain, the word "God" takes up much of the space, possibly stating that this is the portion we currently aren't aware of. That portion being our third eye.

[OpiAtE_666]

I think its saying "god is in your head". You can take that to mean one of two things.

Either God is within us all, and we should be looking inside ourselves and not to the outside world to find him. Or God is a concept invented by human beings.

Personally I feel its the second one. But I guess anyone who's religious would choose the 1rst one. My problem is with the word "God". People in our culture associate the word "god" with a kind of magical human being that lives in the sky and sees everything we do. If Tool believes in God, I'm sure they have a completely different idea of what God is. But I don't think you have to put your faith in a God to be spiritual. Its not necesarry, its just a concept... I think thats the message that was being conveyed in the art.

[Edman]

maybe the crazy skeleton-muscle man is just thinkin bout god. no harm in that

[Shpongleyes]

"On the sixth day, God created man. On the seventh day, man created God." -Henry Rollins

Maybe this is sorta like God is just the creation of man, and that we control what our 'god' is and looks like and acts like, etc. etc.

But in all honesty, i think its much spiritually deeper than that. I own and I've read(?) some of Alex Grey's book, Transfigurations. Haven't finished it, and haven't gotten too deep, actually. I've mostly looked at his artwork and i want to try to see what i can get out of it before i read about what he put into it... then maybe i'll be able to get even MORE from it!

~Matt

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I hadn't really thought about it this way until the other day in my Philosophy of Religion class, but it makes some sense at least. It was argued by Anselm and DesCartes at one point that God must exist for three reasons:

Premise 1) Everyone, even the atheist, has a concept of God.

Premise 2) The concept of God is as a 'perfect' being, thus, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, all-loving, etc. (Anything deemed 'good,' God is the perfect example of.)

Premise 3) It is more perfect to exist, than not to exist.

Conclusion: therefore, God must exist.

------------------------------------------

Okay, so my point about 'God' being shown in the brain itself reflects that everyone does have a concept of God ... even if we deny the existence of a god, we still have some concept of what one would be like. Thus, God is sort of hard-wired into our brains. Which, historically & socially would seem to stand to reason because every culture known -to my knowledge- has had some sort of deity, thus everyone, indeed, has a concept of God hard-wired into their brains. Perhaps the symbolism of our hard-wired concept is that, even though the concept exists, we still have to discover and explore faith, religion, spirituality on our own & peel away the various layers of ourselves to find out what we believe.

On a sidenote for those not familiar with philosphy, Anselm & DesCartes's proof was ultimately rejected because of Premise 3 -because attributing existence to God as a property is not logical because we don't typical attribute existence as a property of anything, so why God?

[forkedpath]

someone else may have posted about this elsewhere, i was just interested to see what others had to say about the god emblazoned brain. in this picture, the pineal gland is also depicted. interesting that Gray would pick this inner stage to depict the word 'god', when it couldve easily been done (and nearly seems as if it was begun) on the page before. the pineal gland exists in all vertebrates, and another little tidibit...its referred to as the 'third eye'. for many, the bridge between the physical and intangible.

just being human should let you in on both our wonders as a species, as well as our drawbacks. even animals know were different (while, surely this is a product of instinctual fear from millions of years of predation)...if we came from animals, what have our instincts been reduced to in such a short time? man is surely imperfect, but does have some miniscule portion of divinity within him...pushing him forward to create, attempt to understand, and remember. so, in my opinion, traces of the same being all religions glorify, 'god', has touched us somehow, and left his mark to be seen in us all.

p.s. someone said the arteries and veins were reversed, but if youll look closely at the second page (and primary aorta leaving the heart in the page before the one in question), youll see why i might disagree.

[forkedpath]

heh, that shouldve been 'its' and not 'his'...damned societal conditioning...surely such a being wouldnt be constrained to a dick and pair of balls.

[DeadKennedys]

I think that Tool is trying to say that god has just been put into our minds as the truth and not that many people seek the real truth so it stays in their minds until they come to find that god is nothing but an imaginarysolution to their lives.

[jadedfool]

Alright...let's experiment for a minute here and get away from conventions. First off, take a look at Alex Grey's art. It's amazing...www.alexgrey.com for those of you who 1. dont know, and 2. dont go to the band's official website.
Alright, now that we've gotten that far, look within his art. Most (if not all), have some sort of magickal theme to them...this really gets you wondering....
There was a mention earlier in the posts about the 4 elements...in the cardinal directions, going clockwise, they go Earth, Air, Fire, Water. Unfortunately, I left my booklet at home and can't really look further into this, but let's continue anyway.
Egyptians had a lot of Gods and Goddesses...a LOT...ever wonder why?
To add a druidic belief (this coming from The 21 Lessons of Merlyn by Douglas Monroe)
I died as a mineral and became a plant
I died as a plant and rose to animal
I died as an animal and was man
Why should i fear? When was i ever less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as man, to soar
In the Blessed Realm; but even from godhood
I must pass on
realitivity? Godhood is the last phase reached as well as the last drawing. More you ask? The symbol for the above is the Triscale - a spiral which unfolds ever outward.

Ah! the link manifests itself!

Sprial out - keep going - spiral out - keep going

[Darkend Feeling]

I think that this "hidden" god could have somthing to do with how some people are able to see it right away, and how others have to be shown.

Someone might say that the word god is there, weather you are able to see it or not. Much like people say about the "real" god.
Other people that might not be able to see the word god would just dismiss it and say, "Your seeing things, thats just the way Alex drew the guys brain."

Weather your one of the people that can now point out the word god in the guys brain, or (like the first time all of you looked at it) just can't see it, both of you are looking at the same picture. Like most of us, if a man walked up to you and said that he heard a voice and it was god talking to him, you would think the man was crazy. However, that man might acctualy be hearing god. Theres no way for you to prove that he isn't really hearing god talk to him, untill you hear hear it too. Then you would be crazy with him.

When I first came up with this idea it made a lot of sense to me, but now I just can't figure out exactly how to put it into words. Maybe I'll think it over some more and try to make a little more sense out of this.

[Soaky]

while looking at the album afterpurchasing it almost 2 years ago, I noticed this as soon as I stared at this sleeve. I immediately said to myself that this is probably the typical person. A person who lives life yet underneath all of the exterior they have some sort of religious or knowledge of an omnicient being who regulates their path after death. Or it could be some sort of hidden heretical message. Afterall, It's T00L! YOu never know what to expect.

[th3rdeye]

This is an idea I have yet to br brought up: What if instead of all being our own divine being, we were all part of a God. Every being in humanity is a piece of the pie of God, and together we are to eventually grow omnipotent, because we have, obviously, yet to reach that. Everymind a small fraction of God, instead of everyone else being their own God. This would also relate to the "we are all one mind" Maynard sings in Reflection.

I'll expand more later today after I wake up.

[Nirvana]

Originally posted by -Phantom Pain-
this was posted on the Albums > Lateralus > Lateralus forum


but i think this actually belongs here :)





http://toolshed.down.net/pix/lat/lateraluscdslev5.jpg


WOW.. cool ..never knew... this is great.. nice seeing...


Meaningless Post:):-:(Nirvana):-:(

[th3rdeye]

Today,I was thinking through my theories and such (as always) and I expanded upon a theory I have presented in my novel that I am currently working on.

There is the subconscious and the conscious. And as I see, they seem to be seperate entities. The conscious is our observer of the reality we are in, low and able to degrad a situation. It is the eye of the mind and the overall one to take actions. But the subconscious is the one directing, the knower of all. While it is still part of us, it is seperate. I've found myself to take certain actions for what seemed necessary at the moment, but a week, a month, or even a year after the event, I reflect and find that there was another, greater reason for my actions. And they always seem to carry me in the correct path.

This sort of relates back to the "we all contain our own divinity" but also a mixture to "we are all a fractional piece of a God." But what if the subconscious of the mind is the omnipotent force, yet we have very very very little control over it if not any. The subconscious decides when to release it's knowledge upon us, and controls every action we take.

In our reality, the reality humanity is forced to endure, Society is the one true goverenment. For you wear cloths, you are influenced in that manor by TV, magazine ads, and most importantly, the interaction you have with other humans.

Now control over your subconscious would mean you basically know every step you need to make, every action, to find yourself in the situation you please, or you prehaps need to be in. You would know all. And most importantly, you would be able to control Society.

So what if this GOD written within the mind on the painting is representing that an omnipotent force unable to be defined (thus dubbed "God") is within our minds, is our subconscience. We have communication with a small fractional piece of it. Though, majority of humanity are children of society and religion, unable to think for themselves to an extent as we do.

True omnipotence is to have full control and access to both the conscious and subconscious, full access to the human capability and breaking the bonds of the current restricitions.

The closest we have come to contact with the subconscious is through meditation, which I have single handly found to work. As being as powerful as it is, the subconscious is a place of peace and pure relaxation. But the downfall of meditating is you have no control and leave your conscious state of mind. Teethering yourself to it, while you drift through the space into the subconsciousness.

--------

When debating Creationist of an organized religion, they often bring up evolution, and the one that annoys me the most is "Well if we evolved into apes, than what are we evolving into now? I don't see anything evolving."

I cannot answer this with fact, but personal theory. All I can say is we are evolving into, as I see it, 1 of 2 things. Either we are evolving into the "mind leaving the physical restraints of the body" theory, or we're evolving in God.

I believe Tool is a perfect example as the first step in this evolutionary change. A step up above the intelligence, and it's becoming more often. In the 1940's, it was hard to find anyone that questioned life, religion, society, and everything else as much or as well as Tool, you, I, or anyone else on the same level does.

So I say the next step in evolution is the connection, or of a greater connection with the subconscious. The connection seem so to be taking so long, it could be well over a billion years from now the first mind actually leaves the body.

-----

If anyone sees any flaws in this, please tell me. It is a theory in the works, and theory none-the-less. Thank you.

-----

"The brain is the physical entity, but the mind is the effects of experiences. It does not exist in reality, but its the reaction to all the actions. The mind is the one effected, and the mind is the one who creates the effect."

[SgtLurch]

well if you read the book by Robert A. Heinlein titled "stranger in a strange land" the whole theory is that Thou Art God. meaning that the only reason god exists is because we think he does. without our thought of God then their is no god so each of us is a peice of god.


Thou Art God.