The source [Archive] - The Tool Page: Opinion

APT

01-10-2007, 06:10 PM

Impatient215

01-10-2007, 06:20 PM

It's "its source is bright and endless," meaning the source of the light that reflects off of the moon (e.g. the Sun).

I concur with the rest of your post, though. :)

APT

01-10-2007, 06:31 PM

It's "its source is bright and endless," meaning the source of the light that reflects off of the moon (e.g. the Sun).

Right...but he's using the Moon's reflection of the Sun as a metaphor.

Impatient215

01-10-2007, 07:29 PM

Which is exactly why I said I concur with the rest of your post.

fnshmetal

01-11-2007, 03:30 AM

The divine collective infinite unconscious that is the culmination of all living things

slamminsalmon

01-11-2007, 09:03 AM

The divine collective infinite unconscious that is the culmination of all living things

its our beginning and our end

APT

01-11-2007, 05:12 PM

The divine collective infinite unconscious that is the culmination of all living things

That sounds a little cliche...could you elaborate on that a bit?

In what way(s) is/are these culminations divine? How is it infinite? What do you mean unconscious? By all living things do you mean here on Earth or elsewhere in the Cosmos? What is it that makes you think this is the Source that Maynard refers to in Reflection?

Just curious.

fnshmetal

01-11-2007, 06:32 PM

That sounds a little cliche...could you elaborate on that a bit?

In what way(s) is/are these culminations divine? How is it infinite? What do you mean unconscious? By all living things do you mean here on Earth or elsewhere in the Cosmos? What is it that makes you think this is the Source that Maynard refers to in Reflection?

Just curious.

All that matters is that I know what it means to me. The best way for you to understand it is to interpret the song in your own way.

APT

01-11-2007, 06:50 PM

All that matters is that I know what it means to me. The best way for you to understand it is to interpret the song in your own way.

Nice cop out. The point of this thread was to explain what it meant to you.

maggie72

01-11-2007, 07:42 PM

Nice cop out. The point of this thread was to explain what it meant to you.

Explaining could result in a really long post. I think it's best to refer someone to some kabbalistic teachings.

Simply put, the source/light is god.

APT

01-11-2007, 09:46 PM

Explaining could result in a really long post. I think it's best to refer someone to some kabbalistic teachings.

Simply put, the source/light is god.

Oh no...a really long post. Nevermind then.

OK...so the source/light is God. How does this God manifest itself? Does it have a purpose?

maggie72

01-12-2007, 09:04 AM

I don't have the time to spoon feed you all this information, so I'll just give you a link (http://www.kabbalah.info/engkab/book_1/book1eng_intro.htm).

Have fun reading 20+ chapters.

For more information on this source/light, read a book by Dion Fortune called "Mystical Qabbalah"

If you can't find what your looking for with these two, then there is no helping you.

hobblegobble

01-12-2007, 10:22 AM

ha..

maggie72

01-12-2007, 01:05 PM

ha..

hmmm...

APT

01-12-2007, 01:34 PM

If you can't find what your looking for with these two, then there is no helping you.

You must be confused. I'm not looking for help. I'm not looking to be spoonfed, for I am already full. I'm looking for you to regurgitate what you claim to have eatin. See, I have regurgitated what it means to me in this thread's opening post. You on the other hand, have felt content with giving me an over-abundence of unnecessary information from another source that has spoonfed you, in hopes that I will stop asking what it actually means to you. If you don't understand this dilemma, there is no helping you.

hobblegobble

01-12-2007, 01:49 PM

APT, you are awesome. I love the fact that you regurgitate...tasty...

hobblegobble

01-12-2007, 01:49 PM

this place is a black hole of death

maggie72

01-12-2007, 02:28 PM

If you don't understand this dilemma, there is no helping you.

Your right, I don't understand your dilemma. There is no helping me.

APT

01-12-2007, 02:32 PM

Your right, I don't understand your dilemma. There is no helping me.

May I suggest a course of 5th grade reading comprehension?

maggie72

01-12-2007, 02:36 PM

how about you spoon feed me your dilemma

hobblegobble

01-12-2007, 02:50 PM

popcorn anyone? keep going guys. I'm glad this doesn't involve me for once.

APT

01-12-2007, 02:58 PM

how about you spoon feed me your dilemma

Well, since I've been doing it for the whole thread for you, I'm done being an enabler.

How about you just admit you don't know what the fuck it means to you other than, "uhh...I think I read something about it in the Kabbalah....yeah the Source is God...but like...you'll have to read (insert someone else's work)," and then GTFO of this thread.

hobblegobble

01-12-2007, 03:00 PM

HAHAHAHAHA.....damn...am i here? hellooo?

hobblegobble

01-12-2007, 03:04 PM

THIS IS THE CRAP I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ALL ALONG!!!! Somebody thinks they are so friggin intellectual because they read something about something somewhere and have no clue of THE SOURCE...and all of a sudden just because they read this article about something they know what a friggin Tool song is about...you guys are GAY!

APT

01-12-2007, 03:06 PM

HAHAHAHAHA.....damn...am i here? hellooo?

Hi. I know you can contribute an opinion that is more concrete than our friend maggie's evasive responses.

hobblegobble

01-12-2007, 03:17 PM

A million light reflections pass over me
Its source is bright and endless.
She resuscitates the hopeless
Without her we are lifeless satellites drifting.

To me, it sounds as if there was a revelation in that moment. Now I don't think he is necessarily talking about a god or the moon in particular, just because he says "light", but I do believe he is speaking of a revelation. Once this revelation came it was as if the information that enabled this kept coming and coming. It's somewhat of a constant motion or wave of energy and light. I believe this song is about constantly shedding skin and detoxing of all poison. The "endless source of light" is the material or knowledge that constantly enables you to be able to cleanse yourself, mentally, emotionally and physically.

hobblegobble

01-12-2007, 03:19 PM

That's called being able to think and analyze without having to put in a link to an article and use someone else's information to confirm something you just couldn't explain yourself....

APT

01-12-2007, 03:37 PM

That's called being able to think and analyze without having to put in a link to an article and use someone else's information to confirm something you just couldn't explain yourself....

Which was the original point of this thread. Thank you.

hobblegobble

01-12-2007, 03:41 PM

hardy har...

APT

04-13-2007, 08:29 PM

Anyone? Anyone?

Buhler? Buhler?

amenorakumo

04-13-2007, 10:38 PM

on a level, to me this has had to do with ourselves and personality. we're reflecting light from every human being we've come into contact with, learned from or unconsciously mirrored. I think this goes deeper (as stated above) but this is one meaning I've seen in way of reflecting light ("this light is not my own")

tryptosaur

04-20-2007, 05:35 AM

"This light (information) is not my own and a million light reflections pass over me. The Source is bright and endless..."

What, in your opinion is The Source?

To me, it's the information aquired by humans. Things that cannot change, and things that were not invented, but DISCOVERED by humans. Albert Einstein didn't invent the theory of Relativity, he discovered it. Laws of the Universe that we will never know how they came to be and other things completely beyond human comprehension.

Thoughts?
I never thought of light as actually being information, although as soon as we begin to interpret anything, at that point it is in fact information, data collected.
Since the title of the song is "Reflection", it seems to me that since the moon is "confidant" that in a personified way, the moon is being humble, admitting that whatever Maynard may be attributing to the moon really has to do with the fact that he can SEE the moon during this time, but not even the moon itself but photons reflecting off its surface.
Seeing is an ability which depends on the presence of photons. Life depends on photons. That's why we eat, in a sense--to assimilate photons--energy--light--- into our bodies which plants convert for us into something we can utilize.
It seems obvious why people have worshipped the sun.
And when the moon tells him a secret, MJK seems to be implying that just as the moon is reflecting the light of the sun, it is also reflecting his own wisdom right back at him, through him, and back to the source, of which the sun is just another rest stop along the way.

hobblegobble

04-20-2007, 08:39 AM

Maybe it's not so much the actual LIGHT is information but the way light is reflected from the moon in comparison to the way information is reflected as well. The light is not the moon's, the moon merely reflects the light that is provided.
The information is not ours, we simply choose how we reflect the information we receive.
" A million light reflections pass over me"
There are endless ways to reflect the information we receive, we can reflect it as "knowledge", or otherwise.
We can use it to destroy, to build, etc.
The source is bright and endless.

tryptosaur

04-20-2007, 01:17 PM

The brain, then can be likened to the moon and the mind to the sun?
When Maynard says he "finds peace in the emptiness, how pitiful" it seems to be that emptiness can be disguised as a spiritual virtue, when in most cases it is just an escape. A kind of ignorance or an ignoring of the facts, whatever they may be.
To "crucify the ego before it's far too late" seems like he's saying that we must not only put an end to its campain of spiritual domination, but to commemorate it, to give credit to it for what it has done, even though now it may seem inappropriate while still harboring the remnants of a grudge.
There is a message of hope here for those who hear it and a warning for those who do not.
We become what we believe we're supposed to become. Believing in emptiness is like spiritual suicide, in my opinion. Aligning oneself with what actually is, questioning everything, might make things take a little longer, but the results are worth it. My opinion is that acceptance of just any information that sounds logical is foolish if you don't question it first. Otherwise we'd be like followers in a cult who mistakenly learned not to trust themselves. and to take the much easier path of letting someone else do the thinking for us.
The awesome thing about TOOL is that they aren't always totally serious. Just in case we start to become too mesmerized by the sounds, they'll throw in something to shake us up a little. And because of the way they do it, too. They seem to reject guru-status by offending occasionally. And they do it so creatively.

hobblegobble

04-20-2007, 02:31 PM

Peace within the emptiness, the unknown? Information is not knowledge? Peace in not knowing where the information will take you?
Crucify the ego.
Do not make it your own, give it to everyone. Whatever "it" is.
Let it be a reflection of everyone else.
Let a million reflections pass over them as well.

Ajfelt

05-12-2007, 10:30 PM

Relection is TO ME about how people take what they learn/knowlege from someone else and call it there own. They inflate there own ego by potraying this knowlege to others as if they are the source. WHen it is just a reflection of a past experience from another source. The moon appears to have light but it is a mere reflection of the suns light. I like the talk about how Einstien didn't invent relativity it has always been there he just discovered it and made theories about it.

There are so many ways you can relate this song and about every Tool composition to your own life or experiences. This is one of the greatest things about there art to me. It opens my mind and helps me gain a different perspective on things that I am evidently too closed minded or lazy to otherwise see. No other music or art does this for me in the way that Tools does. Trust me I have tried. I find it so fascinating how they translate emotion into words and sound. It is really something very extraordinary. Intelligence leads to communication leads to understanding leads to enlightenment leads to happiness.

Just my thoughts----------I am just a simple minded man so forgive me

ProfoundHaytred

05-26-2007, 07:07 AM

The source may be love as light from his mother. ie the light guiding his way.
I really take the d/r/t as a whole and liken it to maynards ordeal with his mother. Thats what is always comes down to, love for your mother.

Esurient4Truth

05-26-2007, 11:57 AM

Think of the source as a something you can't see, but you can touch, that's not really physical, but almost numbing. Think of it as a serenity. It's the origin of all things - pre-brith and post-death. Some people would like the believe the source is God, however, I have left a more open interpretation, as many people on this site are non-believers.

Eulogy33

05-30-2007, 08:23 PM

i agree. this is one of the most profound songs ive ever listened to.

APT

06-03-2007, 09:35 PM

Marquizzo

06-05-2007, 11:25 PM

Right...but he's using the Moon's reflection of the Sun as a metaphor.

Hey, Apt. I'm sorry to see that it took months for people to start posting their interpretations, as was your original intent. Some people will pick a fight out of anything...

I think this light has a more religious implication than human knowledge. It may be referring to divine intervention. The moon is a lifeless satellite without it's creator.

APT

06-18-2007, 07:33 PM

Hey, Apt. I'm sorry to see that it took months for people to start posting their interpretations, as was your original intent. Some people will pick a fight out of anything...

I think this light has a more religious implication than human knowledge. It may be referring to divine intervention. The moon is a lifeless satellite without it's creator.

What exactly is the moon's creator? Gravity?

Baking Soda

06-25-2007, 01:11 PM

Sigh this song is definitely about aliens.
"I may find peace within the emptiness" - of not being around the extraterrestrials
"The moon tells me a secret" - The aliens are coming
"A million light reflections pass over me" - The aliens camouflage so we can't see them reflecting the light
"I pray the light lifts me out" - tracker beams from the spaceships
"And you will come to find that we are all one mind" - returning to the mother ship
"I must crucify the ego before it's far too late" - We're not alone

talibad

06-27-2007, 08:16 AM

to mean it shows that we all derive from a single point be it you and i as individuals or an entire other solar system. i believe the scource to be pure intention and awareness shineing its imagination on the canvass of existence

Jarring

07-23-2007, 12:01 PM

I think that Maynard is relating himself with the moon in the fact that he is only a satellite that refracts the light given him.
Crucify the ego.
Well, that means hes going for the new moon, right? An ego death.
Come to find out we are all one mind, huh?

Maybe it only makes sense in my mind, but it does make perfect sense.