bill hicks

[ShadowLine]

i just thought this could well be about the late great hicks. was hicks dead before they wrote this?? i dont know for certain, but alot of the lyrics fit in with it. just an idea.

chris
x

[Chris_Brightwell]

Hicks died in '94. Eulogy was first played live in '95. I don't have a date handy on when Aenima was written or recorded.

[ShadowLine]

Hicks died in '94. Eulogy was first played live in '95. I don't have a date handy on when Aenima was written or recorded.

well that helps, cheers. im sure most of the lyrics can be interpreted as related to bill hicks.

He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
Well miss him. (2x)
Were gonna miss him (2x)

Bill certainly had alot to say about alot of issues, and he will be missed.

So long.
We wish you well.
You told us how you werent afraid to die.
Well then, so long.
Dont cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

simple hes saying you may have not reached divinity now, but keep trying, you were on the right path.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
Well miss him. (2x)
Ranting and pointing his finger
At everything but his heart.
Well miss him. (2x)
Were gonna miss him (2x)

he did rant and point his finger at the media for example, put the blame onto advertising and marketing.

No way to recall
What it was that you had said to me,
Like I care at all.

not sure what this bit is but could be a 'quote' if you will of one of the people who went to bill's shows and didnt understand his viewpoint.

But it was so loud.
You sure could yell.
You took a stand on every little thing
And so loud.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and i
Swallowed his facade cuz Im so

facade : a misrepresentation intended to conceal something unpleasant
not sure about this line.

Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me.

and now the theory goes tits up.

Will you?
Will you now?
Would you die for me?
Dont you fuckin lie.

Dont you step out of line. (3x)
Dont you fuckin lie.

Youve claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why then are you so surprised when you hear your own eulogy?

hear your own eulogy? dont know if this is meant to be a literal eulogy anymore.

You had alot to say.
You had alot of nothing to say.

Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies.
Goodbye...


ok so the theory gets screwed about 2/3rds of the way through.

was a nice idea at the time though

chris
x

[chaotic_confusion]

maynard has stated in a number of interviews that eulogy is about no one in particular, meaning it could be about a number of people (one being bill hicks), or just something to be taken as it is, meaning whomever one applies it to is irrelevant.

[ShadowLine]

maynard has stated in a number of interviews that eulogy is about no one in particular, meaning it could be about a number of people (one being bill hicks), or just something to be taken as it is, meaning whomever one applies it to is irrelevant.


ah right cool, didnt know that. cheers.

as with pretty much all tool music you are supposedto draw your own ideas and meanings from them, to think for yourself.

much love
chris
x

[Rotating_Energy_Field]

I used to think that it was about Hicks as well, but I'm pretty sure that I was wrong the whole time. The references to organised religion in the lyrics have made me realise that it's probably about the recent decline of Christianity. There was an article posted here a while ago that spoke about Tool using their music to document an individual's evolution through the Chakras, that was where I first got exposed to the idea that Eulogy is about Christianity.

If you can find that particular article you should read it. I don't remember the name of the writer but it's floating around on here somewhere, I'm sure of it. If you use the search tool and type in Chakras you'll probably find it. It'll make you look at all of Tool's material from a completely different angle, I promise. Very good stuff.

[mr. nikki jensen]

i alway thought it was about l ron hubbert...

[ShadowLine]

I used to think that it was about Hicks as well, but I'm pretty sure that I was wrong the whole time. The references to organised religion in the lyrics have made me realise that it's probably about the recent decline of Christianity. There was an article posted here a while ago that spoke about Tool using their music to document an individual's evolution through the Chakras, that was where I first got exposed to the idea that Eulogy is about Christianity.

If you can find that particular article you should read it. I don't remember the name of the writer but it's floating around on here somewhere, I'm sure of it. If you use the search tool and type in Chakras you'll probably find it. It'll make you look at all of Tool's material from a completely different angle, I promise. Very good stuff.


i know what you mean, after i read the ancient secret of the flower of life by drunvalo melchedezik i saw all of the information in his book in tool's music (mostly lateralus and aenima). just havent figured out eulogy yet.

chris
x

[iAMtheMA!]

indeed.

[martyrinexile86]

i alway thought it was about l ron hubbert...

Same here.

[Mr. Electric Ocean]

I would tend to go more for L Ron Hubbard than Hicks... especially becasue it almost sounds like a death threat... "to ascend you MUST die", kinda like death is being forsced onto the person who this song may be about to really push if they stand by their words or if they are just full of shit

[Inner_Eulogy]

maynard has stated in a number of interviews that eulogy is about no one in particular, meaning it could be about a number of people (one being bill hicks), or just something to be taken as it is, meaning whomever one applies it to is irrelevant.

And what interview is that? I've never heard him say anything about it...please post if you have it or a link

[Inner_Eulogy]

I would tend to go more for L Ron Hubbard than Hicks... especially becasue it almost sounds like a death threat... "to ascend you MUST die", kinda like death is being forsced onto the person who this song may be about to really push if they stand by their words or if they are just full of shit

I don't know if it's a much as a death threat then just the idiology that to be a martyr, you died for your beliefs...or that maybe he's saying in anger that people are wrong to think that you HAVE to die to ascend. Like "you really think that's what it takes, whatever then dumbass...see ya' and good luck with that" perhaps aimed more so at foolish martyrs

"to ascend you must die,
you must be crucified
for our sins and our lies,
GOODBYE"

[LabRat404]

Bill Hicks is the major theme of the album. he's everywhere:

* his pictures are in the pamphlet
* his voice is heard in Third Eye which literally preaches Hick's rants
* Aenima is entirely about a concept based on Hick's last album "Arizona Bay".

He had a lot to say,
He had a lot of nothing to say,

He preached and preached on stage, but prior to his death he called everyone he loved and said goodbye, and stopped speaking for 13 days until his death. He had a lot to say, then he had a lot of nothing to say.

Tool knew hicks, and they certainly miss him.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and I
Swallowed his facade cuz I'm so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me.

Will you? Will you now?
Would you die for me?
Don't you fuckin lie.

and died he did.

This song could be about fools. he had a lot to say, we'll miss him, but will YOU die for me?

Or this song could be about disaapointment in Hicks, that he didn't truly believe what he preached and his terminal illness brought out the truth.

He sure as hell could yell, it sure as hell was loud, and he sure did take a stand on every little fucking thing

If you don't believe this is about Hicks, you're nuts.

edit: it's entirely possible that tool gave hicks a eulogy before he died. perhaps it was what turned into this song.

[ShadowLine]

Or this song could be about disaapointment in Hicks, that he didn't truly believe what he preached and his terminal illness brought out the truth..


what the fuck are you on about? he didnt truly believe what he preached? back this up please.

chris
x

[LabRat404]

what the fuck are you on about? he didnt truly believe what he preached? back this up please.

chris
x

"I Swallowed his facade"

"Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr"

"you must be crucified For your sins and your lies. [sic], GOODBYE!"

tell me that doesn't sound like negativity toward hicks.

[ShadowLine]

"I Swallowed his facade"

"Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr"

"you must be crucified For your sins and your lies. [sic], GOODBYE!"

tell me that doesn't sound like negativity toward hicks.

ah right i thought you were actually saying that bill hicks didnt actually believe in what he said. which is clearly bullshit. i dont think that its reli about hicks anymore, although part of it may be.

chris
x

[LabRat404]

ah right i thought you were actually saying that bill hicks didnt actually believe in what he said.

thats what it seems like Tool is trying to say in the song.


which is clearly bullshit.

From everything I've heard come out of Hick's mouth (at least the serious stuff) he was certainly someone worth hearing out. I didn't know him personally, and I'm sure you didn't either. To assume that he didn't change what he believed in the days before his death would be just that --- an assumption.


i dont think that its reli about hicks anymore, although part of it may be.

why not? what other topic could this possible cover, if not nothing?

[ShadowLine]

thats what it seems like Tool is trying to say in the song.




From everything I've heard come out of Hick's mouth (at least the serious stuff) he was certainly someone worth hearing out. I didn't know him personally, and I'm sure you didn't either. To assume that he didn't change what he believed in the days before his death would be just that --- an assumption.




why not? what other topic could this possible cover, if not nothing?


well the rest of the album holds him in high regard, and to have the second song roast him doesnt seem right, to be about hicks, all those lines that are sarcastic and offensive could very well be from the point of view of one of the audience who didnt get what he was trying to say.

also you said or someone did that he didnt speak for 13 days before his death, how could anyone have know if he'd changed his mind in that period. also ive seen the last recorded prformace of him, when he actually had cancer and if anything he ssemed even better. more rants etc. i think it kind of spured him on.

also i know these are assumptions but i thin he was prepared for death i think hed come to understand and embrace life as the next ride that it is.

chris
x

oh and about the song being about him, i keep changing my mind, one thing will lead to think it is about him, one thing will lead me to think its not about him.

[LabRat404]

follow the principal, not the man.

You can love what a man was while not loving what he's become.

I don't think Tool holds him in any high regard, other than they were friends/associates.

Holding someone in high regard is foolish for many reasons:

1.) People change for the worse
2.) You might change with them
3.) Theory is important, not who came up with it (credit (http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=81652) is mostly useless beyond tickling somebody's fancy)

[LabRat404]

I just had another thought:

he had a lot to say (he surely did!)
he had a lot of nothing to say (tongue-in-cheek for "and nobody listened")

and that Tool is only disappointed that Hicks "martyred" himself for nothing -- not all martyrs see divinity, but at least he tried, that he was foolish to believe he could change the world, that people would listen to him, even though what he had to say was true and worth hearing.

Or perhaps that he became utterly disappointed in humanity as he came to his death, and thats what Tool didn't agree with.

Tongue-in-cheek:

No way to recall
What it was that you had said to me,
Like I care at all.
but it was so loud


Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr. (a cross is a place for fools, don't be a fool)

[Inner_Eulogy]

I just had another thought:

he had a lot to say (he surely did!)
he had a lot of nothing to say (tongue-in-cheek for "and nobody listened")

and that Tool is only disappointed that Hicks "martyred" himself for nothing -- not all martyrs see divinity, but at least he tried, that he was foolish to believe he could change the world, that people would listen to him, even though what he had to say was true and worth hearing.

Or perhaps that he became utterly disappointed in humanity as he came to his death, and thats what Tool didn't agree with.

Tongue-in-cheek:

No way to recall
What it was that you had said to me,
Like I care at all.
but it was so loud


Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr. (a cross is a place for fools, don't be a fool)

Sounds relevant to me <stamp of approval>

[ShadowLine]

I just had another thought:

he had a lot to say (he surely did!)
he had a lot of nothing to say (tongue-in-cheek for "and nobody listened")

and that Tool is only disappointed that Hicks "martyred" himself for nothing -- not all martyrs see divinity, but at least he tried, that he was foolish to believe he could change the world, that people would listen to him, even though what he had to say was true and worth hearing.

Or perhaps that he became utterly disappointed in humanity as he came to his death, and thats what Tool didn't agree with.

Tongue-in-cheek:

No way to recall
What it was that you had said to me,
Like I care at all.
but it was so loud


Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr. (a cross is a place for fools, don't be a fool)


very good point actually, yeah i may just give up on this one, we'll never actually know what the song is about for definite. at least i can relax and just emotionally engage with it.

chris
x

[Bogart]

i alway thought it was about l ron hubbert...

There is a quote floating around where Danny mentions the song is about L. Ron Hubbard.

[LabRat404]

all signs point to hicks, other than these elusive "quotes" that nobody can back up, and who's even to say they're true, even if they did fly out of one of Tool's mouths?

[LabRat404]

I wonder if there;s some meaning behind the megaphone maynard uses.... perhaps asserting hick's loudness -- "it was so loud"

or maybe its just a creative addition.

[TJP]

I would tend to go more for L Ron Hubbard than Hicks... especially becasue it almost sounds like a death threat... "to ascend you MUST die", kinda like death is being forsced onto the person who this song may be about to really push if they stand by their words or if they are just full of shitto ascend you must die=the goverment suppress us climbing to englightenment.

[TJP]

I just had another thought:

he had a lot to say (he surely did!)
he had a lot of nothing to say (tongue-in-cheek for "and nobody listened")

and that Tool is only disappointed that Hicks "martyred" himself for nothing -- not all martyrs see divinity, but at least he tried, that he was foolish to believe he could change the world, that people would listen to him, even though what he had to say was true and worth hearing.

Or perhaps that he became utterly disappointed in humanity as he came to his death, and thats what Tool didn't agree with.

Tongue-in-cheek:

No way to recall
What it was that you had said to me,
Like I care at all.
but it was so loud


Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr. (a cross is a place for fools, don't be a fool)awesome

[HollyMarie]

i know what you mean, after i read the ancient secret of the flower of life by drunvalo melchedezik i saw all of the information in his book in tool's music (mostly lateralus and aenima). just havent figured out eulogy yet.

chris
x

Its interesting you said that because I am currently reading "Nothing in this book is true, but its exactly how things are." GREAT READ! THe author is Bob Frissell and he he discusses drunvalo melchedezik quite extensively in his book.

When it comes to eulogy I think it has to do with religion.

"Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and i
Swallowed his facade cuz Im so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me."

"Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies.
Goodbye..."

Those lyrics sound nothing like a "memorial like" eulogy for Bill Hicks. You cannot deny the rest of lyrics in the song to make your interpretation fit.
In my opinion, with many different TOOL songs, a song will appear to make me feel one idea one day, and another one the next. I just keep researching the ideas presented to initally open my eyes, and than spiral out to where I realise it doesn't really matter what the fuck the song means. Its the journey I took to find my own answer. (IN MY OPINION)

[HollyMarie]

There is a quote floating around where Danny mentions the song is about L. Ron Hubbard.

A supposed quote floating around. I have not found it. Although I know the band members have been known to not be taken very seriously in interviews.

[HollyMarie]

"I Swallowed his facade"

"Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr"

"you must be crucified For your sins and your lies. [sic], GOODBYE!"

tell me that doesn't sound like negativity toward hicks.

BOOMBABEH

[ShadowLine]

Its interesting you said that because I am currently reading "Nothing in this book is true, but its exactly how things are." GREAT READ! THe author is Bob Frissell and he he discusses drunvalo melchedezik quite extensively in his book.

When it comes to eulogy I think it has to do with religion.

"Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and i
Swallowed his facade cuz Im so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me."

"Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies.
Goodbye..."

Those lyrics sound nothing like a "memorial like" eulogy for Bill Hicks. You cannot deny the rest of lyrics in the song to make your interpretation fit.
In my opinion, with many different TOOL songs, a song will appear to make me feel one idea one day, and another one the next. I just keep researching the ideas presented to initally open my eyes, and than spiral out to where I realise it doesn't really matter what the fuck the song means. Its the journey I took to find my own answer. (IN MY OPINION)


true, the journey is just as important as the revelation. and to be honest i wasnt thinking through what i was writing before which was stupid. and in my opinion tools last three albums only reli ave 3 themes:
the anti-system RATM like rantings. ticks and leeches....
the hicks ideas....
and the flower of life/ nothin in this book is true ideas.

most of lateralus is basically the flower of life.

chris
x

[sotos]

rip bill

[saintjoe]

i do not believe this song is about anyone the band respects

[saintjoe]

L. ron was such a joke and even a poor writer, its amazing how he influenced others into believing his rhetoric

[miketh74]

I wonder if there;s some meaning behind the megaphone maynard uses.... perhaps asserting hick's loudness -- "it was so loud"

or maybe its just a creative addition.

Very interesting....I bet there is the connection with the loudness and megaphone.

[GideonBufo]

Ive heard its about bill hicks, Kurt Cobain, Jesus, L Ron Hubbard, Maynard himself, Maynard's ego. It could be about all of them together. Or the inability to cope with death in our society.

[miketh74]

Ive heard its about bill hicks, Kurt Cobain, Jesus, L Ron Hubbard, Maynard himself, Maynard's ego. It could be about all of them together. Or the inability to cope with death in our society.

Much agreed.