Anyone else think the solo is unnecessary?

[O.G.T.92]

Tool is one of those bands where the impact of the songs dont really hit you the first time you hear them, maybe not the second or third either, especially if its the day the cd comes out and youre listening to it all at once, but after a while, they start to sink in and you think "oh yeah, I get it, that part really should be there they knew what they were doing after all" The solo in this song hasnt sunk in with me yet and its almost a year later. It's a great solo with a tone they probably tweaked for days to nail, but right when it starts to build up you want maynard to go into the "overwhelmed..." lyric and youre fuckin ready for it, but he doesn't. Instead all of the sound drops out of the song and you listen to a solo that takes you out of the zone for the climax of the song, which i think is the best climax on the record. Anyone with me? or anyone maybe show me a different way to look at it? thx

[Scobularni]

I find the whole middle section really hypnotic, and even when its dies down to the guitar solo, the bass and especially the drums are, I find, interesting enough to keep me focused.

While I'm on the subject, I gotta say this is still the song I come back to more than any other on the album, 6 months later. I presume because there's just so much going on.

[base metal]

I'm guessing that you're referring to the screechy guitar part during the bass and drum breakdown?

I don't like the sound of it and I think it's Adam's worst solo, but I understand how it is relevant to the whole "trip" getting more and more intense, so I have learned to endure it I guess. It's kind of like meeting your gilfriend's parents for the first time and farting as you shake her father's hand, IMO. Other than that, I still think it's a great song and perhaps one of the most interesting pieces of music they have written in quite a while. I really dig the way the song builds up around the 6 minute mark into the whole bass and drum section and into the final climax of the song. I just have to brace myself and wait out the solo.

[Jimmeny]

If you look at it as a stand alone solo, it's not great, but that isn't really what it is, and most of his solos aren't. The guitar part in this section is enough to gel the section together and make it, as Scobularni, as hypnotic as it is. I like it.

[base metal]

If you look at it as a stand alone solo, it's not great, but that isn't really what it is, and most of his solos aren't.

I know what you're saying, Jimmeny. It's just another part, not really a solo and yeah, it does make the section more hipnotic, but it still annoys me.

[Salvatorin]

i liked the solo from the beginning. Its so drawn out, and then the screechy sound mellows down into that repeated section, but you still hear it and its like they just added a new element

[stevejols]

That guitar solo takes me to the outerspace part of the song. Totally necassary, mind blowing live.

[Vicari0us]

It probably makes the song even better on acid...havent tried yet though haha

[Kotowboy]

I HATE IT. It ruins the song. HORRIBLE note choice. HORRIBLE tone. Kills the momentum DEAD.

[Torn-tool]

That guitar solo takes me to the outerspace part of the song. Totally necassary, mind blowing live.

agree...

feels like transcending!

[jevons]

Tool is one of those bands where the impact of the songs dont really hit you the first time you hear them, maybe not the second or third either, especially if its the day the cd comes out and youre listening to it all at once, but after a while, they start to sink in and you think "oh yeah, I get it, that part really should be there they knew what they were doing after all" The solo in this song hasnt sunk in with me yet and its almost a year later. It's a great solo with a tone they probably tweaked for days to nail, but right when it starts to build up you want maynard to go into the "overwhelmed..." lyric and youre fuckin ready for it, but he doesn't. Instead all of the sound drops out of the song and you listen to a solo that takes you out of the zone for the climax of the song, which i think is the best climax on the record. Anyone with me? or anyone maybe show me a different way to look at it? thx


Think from the character's perspective. It's first person, ya? So what's the poor bastard feeling, hmm? Rattled with all these delusions, this music is representative of what courses through his body. The high ring in the beginning (ears), the drums show he's rocking back and forth, the bass helps that, the guitar is like the memory hindering him, the trip nowhere near an end. The "Deadhead chemistry" bit is like the end of the first attempt to discuss, the doctor goes out into the hall, sighs, drinks, pops a pill, calls his wife, heads back into listen to Crazytown rock back and forth again.
He eventually realises what they are going to do with him. He pleads, complains.
To no avail.
"Strapped down to my bed...."
The guitar solo is the memory, over and over again, in his cold little room playing with orange stickers, the memory just twists in his head.
Jibberish.
More jibberish.
Restricted rocking back and forth. (Que the snapping from the Grudge)
The solo puts you in his shoes, deeper. It lets the rest of his life sink in. He'll never leave that place. Ever. Someone mentioned transcending, to me it's more like introverting with him. He's digging during the solo, convinced all he has to do is remember what Tyler Durden said to him, and then everything will be fine. They wanted time to pass, you to feel his insanity. So they leave you waiting.

[jevons]

And doesn't it make you feel better?

[sam905]

TOOL always has a meaning for what they do, this fact makes them unigue from all the other modern musicians on MTV and so forth, while many bands do do thier own thing many do not, well this song is about this man forgetting right, well when im remebering somthing i get real hyped up and excited but then i forget it and i get real bummed, then i get mad, well i belive this huge escalating pump you up part is ment to signify him rembering what happened or probally more that SOMETHING happend but the drop out is him forgetting then the obvious "cant remeber what they said" part seems angry to me, parts of it atleast these are the three emotions i feel when this happens, just a thought

[iAMtheMA!]

are you hearing what i'm hearing?

[thezeusanator]

I think the solo or that part of the song, however you want to look at it is perfect, as is the whole album. Its a beautiful guitar part and adds a perfect dynamic for the upcoming parts as the song climaxes. Its like lipan conguruing in relation to the entire album as that part is to this song. The thing Adam does on Jambi is definintly more mind blowing, probably the best guitar sound I've ever heard. the solo parts are incredibly ugly and nasty and demonic while simultaneosly being beautiful, clean, and angelic. A perfect balance.

[Bogart]

The solo almost ruins the song for me. There is a real good groove going on between Danny and Justin and then this screeching guitar solo comes in. Not Adam's finest work, ***.

[tryptosaur]

Maybe I'm retardead.
I cannot find even one tiny little thing wrong with this mindblowing masterpiece.
As long as I don't think too much about the length of the song.
If you read the 11:11 thread, you'll see---song length really means penis length and since 1s are really penises, then 11s are gay couples.
(i apologize for possibly making anyone in here gay by exposing you to this highly experimental information)
I just came from that insane thread, and I'm still not feeling normal yet.
Could the reason some of you don't like the solo be that solo secretly means masturbation and you guys sort of feel left out, like you missed something?
Just playing <:O-3= (A female kkk with big breasts, short legs and no midsection, and a long neck with no feet and arms, and everything else, actually)

[Opiate Son]

Pretend like it's something other than a guitar and STFU, people.

Jesus Christ, if an electronic musician came up with that particular sound, with that particular texture, people would be rolling their asses off to it.

But no, since this is a metal band and we've all (for whatever reason) reached the conclusion that this is a guitar solo, there's something wrong with it because "it's like just a bunch of really slow squeely notes lol"

How about this: Maybe it's not a guitar solo. Maybe it's a drum/bass solo and the guitar is there to add atmosphere. Let's examine this hypothesis:

Observation 1: The drums and bass are really complex and then the guitar is just a trippy noise that adds atmosphere.

Yep! I think my hypothesis is correct! Still trying to figure wtf is wrong with you people!

EDIT: Sorry for the strong feelings, but this is my favorite part of the album, and I just can't fucking believe nobody understands how cool that sound is.



.!

[Thoracic Tergon]

It's funny how non-Tool-fans that hear this piece think it disgusting and non-musical. I just feel so special for being able to appreciate it beyond just an unpleasant sound... It's because of such tasty morsels that I listen to Tool and not some worthless crap people around me listen to.

[hemiola]

Had I written that bit of music, and read how unsettling it was to some of you, I would feel like I was doing my job. I think he achieved exactly what he was going for.

He's not Eric Johnson. Could you imagine someone along those lines soloing over this? I think it would be silly.

One thing I really enjoy about the guitar tones on this album is that they convey different emotions never before communicated in a guitar tone. With a guitar, most players work in black and white, i.e. happy 'round' tones such as those of Mr Johnson, to abrasive distorted tones employed by many others. There aren't many shades of grey in there. Whereas myriad guitarists have a happy/sad sound and a mean sound, Mr. Jones imparts feelings of anguish, or unpleasantness as stated before, feelings music, ney a sound, has never made me feel before. That is pretty much the biggest compliment I could give someone, musically.

And, frankly, with that monster groove going on underneath, someone could be hand farting 'The Star Spangled Banner' over it and it would still rock.

Party on.

[M00N]

i never really took it as a solo, when you break things down like verse, chorus, bridge solo, intro... you'll never look at it the same again... the part that your talking about i think goes perfectly with the story... the bass is much much better in my opinion on that part, but the guitar is like realization of whats going on... its a smack in the face... it was really never meant to be catchy or anything, just meant to give off the right emotion, and for me, it does that perfectly with the "overwhelmed" part following it...

[UselessPeace]

i never really took it as a solo, when you break things down like verse, chorus, bridge solo, intro...

Try breaking down Rosetta Stoned in conventional musical structure. It's ridiculous, it's a very progressive song that I've often viewed as 3 entirely different pieces tied together by that 5/4 D chord riff that the song finishes with.

I don't find the solo pretty at all, but I think it fits wonderfully.

In response to the OP's dissapointment in not going straight into the "Overwhelmed" apex: that's what Tool does. They slowly progress songs, lift you up, drop you down a bit, then back up again higher. The solo/breakdown part is like the calm before the storm, and I find it to be a brilliant structural decision in terms of tying those two parts together.

[O.G.T.92]

Pretend like it's something other than a guitar and STFU, people.

Jesus Christ, if an electronic musician came up with that particular sound, with that particular texture, people would be rolling their asses off to it.

But no, since this is a metal band and we've all (for whatever reason) reached the conclusion that this is a guitar solo, there's something wrong with it because "it's like just a bunch of really slow squeely notes lol"

How about this: Maybe it's not a guitar solo. Maybe it's a drum/bass solo and the guitar is there to add atmosphere. Let's examine this hypothesis:

Observation 1: The drums and bass are really complex and then the guitar is just a trippy noise that adds atmosphere.

Yep! I think my hypothesis is correct! Still trying to figure wtf is wrong with you people!

EDIT: Sorry for the strong feelings, but this is my favorite part of the album, and I just can't fucking believe nobody understands how cool that sound is.



Jesus.........I'm not burning my cd over it or anything. First, the bass and drums really aren't complex here, it's a simple bass line played over and over. And the percussion isn't AMAZING either, especially considering it's Danny. Second, I appreciate what Adam does, The Lateralus solo is basically two long fucking notes until the very end, VERY simple, but it's perfect for the song. I still hear this section and don't follow their songwriting logic. It's like filler. Not every song needs a solo. I don't like how when someone here questions one of the band's decisions all of a sudden they "Don't get it" and should go listen to techno or whatever. I'm sure there is a lot of fighting amongst the band itself as to what to keep and throw out. It's a compromise. I doubt all four members consider this the "best two-minutes" of the album. I'm happy you do, but I think it's out of place.

[base metal]

Um listen to the kick drum and the bass and tell me that what they're doing there isn't pretty freaking interesting.

.

That jam is sweet, I love the rhythm and the way they accent certain beats ....it just boogies.

Also, to me the guitar evokes a flute. If it actually were a flute, I bet people wouldn't be bitching about it then either.

I've never thought of it like that. I don't know ...it's weird, I don't like it on the album, but live I thought it sounded pretty cool.

[Zchgla]

Wow, you guys are pretty much talking about my favorite two minutes of the album.

Ditto, brother. The guitar "solo" leading into the drum and bass with the lyrics on top makes me trip fucking balls. It's very hypnotic and puts me in some sort of weird convulsion trance.

[shaman171]

The guitar solo unnecessary? Hogwash. That's like saying that Adam is unnecessary.

[thezeusanator]

Ditto, brother. The guitar "solo" leading into the drum and bass with the lyrics on top makes me trip fucking balls. It's very hypnotic and puts me in some sort of weird convulsion trance.

the guitar is great, I feel very similar about it, a trance inducing work of art.

[Angel on the Sideline]

absolutely completely necessary

[Cloudshaper]

The solo is a perfect part of the bridge to the Climax, creating dissonance and eventually ending up intensifying it. It’s a classic musical trick. And at the same time, I think it as an illustration of how the protagonist is feeling. It literality feels like his brain is being cut in half by the bad trip.

[thearm]

OGT92, I agree with what you said about the way the music hits you when the album first comes out. When I first heard Rosetta Stoned, I loved it;but, I just liked the solo (The drums and the bass have always been bad *ucking ass!). I thought the solo was a repeat of Triad and I was dissapointed. Now, the song is my favorite of all. This is just a perfrect song. Long, lots of good lyrics, odd time signatures ect.... You can't ask for a better song. I especially love how I think "I'm never going to be able to play this on drums!" But then, with time, it sinks in and comes together in a great way. To me, that's the beauty of Tool and playing Tool. I also don't think Danny tries to make songs hard. Just tasteful and approprate for the context and the mood. Nobody wants another Dream Theater.

[Pharmaecopia_stinkfist]

thearm is correct, the solo (along with any other part from any other song) may not be orgasmically appealing, but it always serves it's purpose appropriately.

[trickma]

Yeah i definitely think it was unecessary, i always tune into Justins brutal bass solo which is just awesome.. Then adam comes in and sorta steps all over it with his overly loud "solo", yeah i don't dig it i wish it was just bass and drums up until the part changes into the whole "overwhelmed as one would be part"

I also think it's a bit harsh how right after that whole part it comes in with the "strapped down" crap, sorta ruins the moment. Oh well. Great song nether the less.

[Arson]

Um listen to the kick drum and the bass and tell me that what they're doing there isn't pretty freaking interesting.

Is Danny also playing the hand drum samples on top of that, or was that just added in at the studio? I can't remember if he did it live. Either way I think that the groove works so much better placed behind the sample ostinato as opposed to the Meshuggah style drumming from Jambi. (Although the both induce an uncontrolable head nod).

I think this solo is amazing, and I feel like texturally its simplicity keeps the whole thing together. If Adam chose to play another rhythmicly complex or embelished melody on top of this, the parts would all be conflicting for attention. I think this way everybody gets their space. It feels unified but dissectable.

[dmurf]

I think some people don't listen to King Crimson....

[nabiliofadilio]

the solo doesn't bother me too much. its like the dude screaming cuz hes frusturated and such

[Stenrose]

I agree with the people who point out that some are judging the discussed part to much as a traditional guitar solo part. I think that when you use this logic to interpret any of the segments in Tool's tracks, you miss out on the bigger picture.

I love Rosetta Stoned cause its got so many mood changes and I think the part with the "solo" is one of the best changes the song goes through.

I prefer not to call any part of Tool's music a solo, but rather a shift to that particular instrument or the vocals. This shows that Adam isn't not just another smart ass guiarist who wants to include extremely skillfull and "cool" solo's in every song, but rather keeps in mind the theme and the overall structure of a song.

[thearm]

Yeah i definitely think it was unecessary, i always tune into Justins brutal bass solo which is just awesome.. Then adam comes in and sorta steps all over it with his overly loud "solo", yeah i don't dig it i wish it was just bass and drums up until the part changes into the whole "overwhelmed as one would be part"

I also think it's a bit harsh how right after that whole part it comes in with the "strapped down" crap, sorta ruins the moment. Oh well. Great song nether the less.


I do love the bass and the drums together. I love the song as it is but I also agree. I wouldn't mind hearing the song without Adam until "Overwhelemed as one would beeeeeeee."

[magdalena.]

This is one of my favorite Adam solos. WTFsors.

[Thunderbutt]

The character in this song is tripping, confused and panicked, which is represented by the bass and drums. The guitar solo is slow and soothing which represents the hospital staff trying to calm him down (is it just me or does the guitar part sound a little like how the adults in Charlie Brown cartoons speak...probably just me). So in my view, the solo is an extremely important part of this song (Tool doesn't put anything into their music that is uneccessary). :)

[Rockwool_inhaler]

Am I the only one who thinks that the notes in the "solo" part are occuring naturally from the rythm?I recall sitting on the drumset trying to balance this polyrythm and after some point just hearing the notes of the guitar part kick in.