STAIND RIPS OF TOOL (no shit eh?)

[ihatemickjagger]

as much as i hate staind with a passion, i have done some reading and i realize that they claim they are heavily influenced by tool. they practically worship tool. my friend was stupid enough to actually buy staind's new album, and he showed me the cd which pissed me off even more. the cd art is a collage of eyeballs...the way my friend presented it to me was even more idiotic: "oooooooh look at all the eyes!!!" i just kinda shrugged, then ran to the toilet and vomited. i can just imagine the producers of the album "well, tool put some funky eyeball looking things on their last cd, why don't we do that? here, we'll just put a whole collage of it, even though tool had a reason behind it (seeing how the designs ACTUALLY went with the theme of the album), but we're just putting these worthless designs on there for no apparent reason but to rip off the band we try to idolize".
it's a shame that staind claims to be such big followers of tool and that they are "influenced" by them. all staind songs are monotonous, they just go on and on, i get headaches listening to them. oh we'll just strike up a few chords, play them over and over and over again for the duration of the song, produce a half-ass job of an album, and call ourselves the next tool.

the point is i hate staind.

[Tantobourne]

Originally posted by ihatemickjagger
the point is i hate staind.

And Mick Jagger, too.

[Macrame]

And Linkin Park ... they claim to have a bunch of middle eastern influence on their new CD. It's too bad all of these bands write their songs in ways which they think is so deep and great, but they actually don't tell a damn thing.

[yllwcrystlstr]

Originally posted by ihatemickjagger
as much as i hate staind with a passion, i have done some reading and i realize that they claim they are heavily influenced by tool. they practically worship tool. my friend was stupid enough to actually buy staind's new album, and he showed me the cd which pissed me off even more. the cd art is a collage of eyeballs...the way my friend presented it to me was even more idiotic: "oooooooh look at all the eyes!!!" i just kinda shrugged, then ran to the toilet and vomited. i can just imagine the producers of the album "well, tool put some funky eyeball looking things on their last cd, why don't we do that? here, we'll just put a whole collage of it, even though tool had a reason behind it (seeing how the designs ACTUALLY went with the theme of the album), but we're just putting these worthless designs on there for no apparent reason but to rip off the band we try to idolize".
it's a shame that staind claims to be such big followers of tool and that they are "influenced" by them. all staind songs are monotonous, they just go on and on, i get headaches listening to them. oh we'll just strike up a few chords, play them over and over and over again for the duration of the song, produce a half-ass job of an album, and call ourselves the next tool.

the point is i hate staind.

teenagers are learning to appreciate art...give them time

[watchtheweather]

Originally posted by Macrame
And Linkin Park ... they claim to have a bunch of middle eastern influence on their new CD. It's too bad all of these bands write their songs in ways which they think is so deep and great, but they actually don't tell a damn thing.

I hear alot of middle eastern influences in there music.

[nate]

If you think ahrd enough, you could find similarities in anything. For instance: Korn rips off of Toys R Us because they use a backwards "R" too!

[Elgyn]

I recently heard Staind Covering Sober Live.... grrrr (but not, I was NOT at the concert).

Originally posted by nate
If you think ahrd enough, you could find similarities in anything. For instance: Korn rips off of Toys R Us because they use a backwards "R" too!
Gotta love that :D I thought of that when I first heard of them... you know thats kinda "cool" (not). It helps Korn reach out to the younger generation, because they'll relate to the "R" from the Toys R us Commercials... sorry I'm getting a little carried away here.

There are other bands around which are good, but its the mystery in just about every song of Tools which sets them apart.

Its annoying to see Staind using the eye, just because its popular on another album...

[EnvelopePusher]

I'll be damned if Linkin Park could play a citar like it 4 Degrees. Middle Eastern influence my ass. Danny spent a year with Aloke Dutta, the Tabla drum instructor. Now that's some influence.

[3.14]

i dont listern to staind, because i dont like beating my head on wall.

I hear linken park on the radio, see there faces on every magizine, soo humm i might listern to one.

There was my first mistake, reading about them in a magizine, when they probley payed them out.

ohh linken park, when will nu metal bands stop singing about girl trobles and suicide, there is more to life.
and stop abusing the double kick MURDEROUS BASTEREDS

the Lyrics are half assed the music is half assed.
if you know whats good for you dont listern to them, they only seen you stupid

im sure every one in this forum hates them, because they understand good music eg. Tool. :D

[Third Eye 580]

first of all, id like to say that i am a staind fan..lol..sry, i just do, i love the guitar work especially (mike mushok), but at the same time, i am a Tool fan (i like Tool more than Staind by the way)..but im going to have to agree with u on the whole eye art work thing, that was a bit of a rip off, i must confess..and yes i can see why u dont like staind, aaron's vocals get annoying in some songs, i understand this (outside, ect.) but i still feel i have to say that they do have good songs and are good song writters..and as far as linkin park goes, i dont really like em, but i can tolerate SOME of their songs...people today are so quick to judge music by its face and image..if a certain band doesnt appeal to u, its probably because it doesnt support ur bullshit caste that u follow in your bullshit highschool...this is why i love Tool so much, because they r one of the most origional bands out there today, NO BODY IS LIKE TOOL! but ne way, my point is banging other artists is a WASTE OF TIME!! im have been guilty of this as well, but it gets old after awhile. Yes, pop groups like nsync and stuff get on my nerves too, among all the other acts like that, i just dont talk about it all the time..
forgive me if this quote doesnt apply, but i think it does..
"so crucify the ego, before its far too late, and leave behind this place so negative blind and cynical, and you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all thats imagined and unconcievable, so just let the light touch u, and let the words spill through, and let them pass right through, bringing out our hope and reason..before we pine away.."

[supersonic2006]

Originally posted by 3.14
im sure every one in this forum hates them, because they understand good music eg. Tool. :D

hmmm... i guess you're wrong.

Let's see, I happen to like Linkin Park AND Staind AND Tool, and many other artists.

Well, either I'm lying or you're wrong. And I'm not lying.

Tool is incredibly good.

but that doesn't mean everything else sucks.

Do not be so quick to condemn nor so quick to make so broad a statement as the aforementioned.

[ihatemickjagger]

Originally posted by nate
If you think ahrd enough, you could find similarities in anything. For instance: Korn rips off of Toys R Us because they use a backwards "R" too!

3.14 hit the nail on the head
i ALSO don't listen to staind because i don't like beating my head upon the wall...don't think i'm so quick to condemn staind because they put some eyeballs on their cd, i just don't like then because their music is irritating. and honestly, did staind actually put the eyes on their cd for a reason? was the album themed around a bunch of eyes? or did they just do it because the band they idolize put them on their last album? think about those questions, i must be out

[Macrame]

In light of this post ... I'd like to ask everybody for a list of the majority of the bands they listen to outside of Tool. Here's mine

Metallica
System of a Down
Jimmy Eat World
Tenacious D
The Used
Pink Floyd

[ihatemickjagger]

Originally posted by Macrame
In light of this post ... I'd like to ask everybody for a list of the majority of the bands they listen to outside of Tool. Here's mine

Metallica
System of a Down
Jimmy Eat World
Tenacious D
The Used
Pink Floyd
gladly:

Coldplay
Rush
Dreamtheater
Led Zeppelin
Pink Floyd
Red Hot Chili Peppers

each of these bands i love because of originality and talent, and the enjoyment i get out of listening to them...Tool obviously fits right in there as well. The thing about Staind that just isn't working for me is that their music is repetitive and uninspired

[Elgyn]

Linken Park, Staind, and anyone else you care to diss - probably aren't as good as tool (In my opinion that is), but it doesn't mean they don't have anything to offer.

Other bands/musicians I regularly listen to:

Pink Floyd
Led Zeppelin
Pearl Jam (yes, you're welcome to call me a dick)
A Perfect Circle
Midnight Oil
John Butler Trio
Something for Kate

I'm pretty open minded musically, although for bands (groups) like Nsync... I have no time at all. When someone else writes a song for you, makes a film clip for you, trains you how to sing... its just not music, its marketing.

[NowImNothing]

I would just like to say that it is perfectly fine if you don't like Staind and Linkin Park, but that doesn't mean anyone should generalize a typical Staind or Linkin Park fan, or assume that one cannot like both these bands AND Tool. {I'm not saying anyone has, just reminding.}
Other Bands:
Metallica {I know...the new album sucks}.
Nine Inch Nails {I thought Trent wrote the best lyrics ever until I heard Tool...}
Linkin Park {read above}
Staind {ditto}
Coldplay {They're not amazing as everyone says, but they are a really good band}
Nirvana {cliche, I know, but they are an amazing band. Screw anyone who says they like Nirvana, or any other band for that reason, just to say they do to be like everyone else. If you really honestly like a band, then great, more power to you, even if that band is NSYNC.}

[D/R/T]

well, i know it is broadminded to say that Staind suck, but that is my opinion and i am going to express it. I believe they suck...i never knew they were influenced by tool, and i cannot believe that they put eyes on their album...that is just a rip-off, if it's not, then its hero worship...

and i do listen to other music such as:

Dream Theater
Led Zeppelin
Pink Floyd
Metallica (yes, St. Anger did suck)
Jimmy Eat World
A Perfect Circle
Blink 182

[schismgrudge200]

my bands would be:
Radiohead
Mr. Bungle*
Fantomas*
Tomahawk*
Faith No More*
* (I dig Patton)
Primus
Spearhead
Zeppelin
Floyd
Beatles
Coldplay
Tricky
Sigur Ros
The Doors
(Old School) Rage

EMO music eats dick by the way, ive never seen such a cleverly deceptive marketing plan for depressed teens
the music is well less than half-assed, and the "artists" if you can call them that are more obsessed with a fashion statement than they are any real statement, i think as music fans we should look for things that are there for us to buy, but not made specifically to sell to us. All the bands i named above i chose because i know they're talented and could give two shits whether or not you buy their record. they're not dressing up to fit some stupid ass Fad either. They just make art, like any painter whose are you buy on canvass, these guys are true artists (except for the beatles who at one time sold out, only so they could make a lot of money and go trip in some really cool places, then come back and write some bad ass albums)

[011188]

let's see.......

Led Zeppelin
Pink Floyd
Deftones
Korn
Metallica
Disturbed
ZZ Top

Those are the main ones. I have a shit load of cd's that i have and like but these are the ones that get worn out in my cd player. I have recently started listening to Chevelle so I don't know how that band will turn out.

I am a guitar player and I am in a band. The kind of music I always listen to is based upon these characteristics:
-cool guitar riffs
-ability to cover song
-just the fact that the band has this weird ability to take over my mind and bring me to this like dreamy half concious state ..... tool and deftones do this to me
-pink floyd is a really hard band to cover because of the effects they use ......but their lyrics are awesome

[3 libras]

Well, first of I think that both Linkon Park and Staind are commercial, glorified, nu metal garbage groups. I sence nothing but lack of artisic creativity in thoe groups. That doesn't mean that I hate those who like the bands, I happen to have a friend who likes both.

On another note, I'll play along and list my favorite groups.

Led Zeppelin
Pink Floyd
Tool
A Perfect Circle (duh)
Black Sabbath
Black Label Society
Alice in Chains
The Tea Party
Dream Theatre
Nevermore
Days of the New
Old Metallica ( Kill em all - And Jutice for all)

..Those are the main ones, I could go on with more but long list are boring.



peace

[Nivek]

I think when people listen to a lot of outstanding music all the time other bands can seem very dull. i have mixed feelings about Staind. Some songs are ok but others are a little juvenile and try too hard to force an emotional feeling. That sounds fake. As for Linkin Park, well, they're music simply sounds cheesy. Completely predictible in a bad way. Makes you cringe at its shallowness. Still, they have a place in music. They can write music just fine but it is very average. I believe top notch music is very wide spread but you may have to do some research. Time always sheds light on the true greatness of a band. Many of these groups will disappear off the face of the earth. I usually try not to bash subpar bands. They do that on their own. I just ignore them. They WILL disappear.

[panzerjaeger]

Originally posted by watchtheweather
I hear alot of middle eastern influences in there music.

I can't understand that, because I have listened to a number of Linkin Park's songs, and they sound more like they've been influenced by the local dump.

[panzerjaeger]

Originally posted by Macrame
In light of this post ... I'd like to ask everybody for a list of the majority of the bands they listen to outside of Tool. Here's mine

Metallica
System of a Down
Jimmy Eat World
Tenacious D
The Used
Pink Floyd

I listen to a variety of bands.

Adiemus
A Perfect Circle
Chevelle
Clannad
Evanescence
Nine Inch Nails
Nirvana

[soberwithapenis]

Originally posted by supersonic2006
Do not be so quick to condemn nor so quick to make so broad a statement as the aforementioned.

No offense to you supersonic, but i love it when people use big words when they talk shit in these threads. Just comical to me.

Originally posted by schismgrudge200
EMO music eats dick by the way, ive never seen such a cleverly deceptive marketing plan for depressed teens
the music is well less than half-assed, and the "artists" if you can call them that are more obsessed with a fashion statement than they are any real statement.

So when the newest Red Hot Chili Pepper cd came out and everyone said that they went EMO, your saying they sold out? The type of music you create is just thrown into the closest available genre. While i think that most "EMO" is just depressed punk (not in the sad or discouraged sense, although it can be both) Some Emo is actually really good music. Its just a bit more emo-tionally oriented. Basically If Tool played country-style music would they suck?


But enough of that. All this argument about linkin park and staind, whoop dee doo! I think they both suck, and i dont really care if you like them or not.

That linkin park rip-off evanessence is even less musically talanted (minus the chick; but im pretty sure thats mostly digitized).

I have no heard this dream theatre yet, but am downloading right now. Thanks for the bands guys.

-Rollo anyone?-

[ihatemickjagger]

Originally posted by soberwithapenis


So when the newest Red Hot Chili Pepper cd came out and everyone said that they went EMO, your saying they sold out? The type of music you create is just thrown into the closest available genre. While i think that most "EMO" is just depressed punk (not in the sad or discouraged sense, although it can be both) Some Emo is actually really good music. Its just a bit more emo-tionally oriented. Basically If Tool played country-style music would they suck?


i dont' consider By the Way an emo album...sure, it has a few emotional songs on there, but the whole album isn't full of them...By the Way, Zephyr Song, Can't Stop, Throw away your television, On Mercury, and a few others don't have any emotion-related lyrics in them. If anyone considered the chili peppers emo, i guess they can just call incubus emo too. look at songs like i miss you, or a few of the songs on their morning view album. are they emo (at least by the teen angst stereotype)? no way. i don't think emo should be a term naming a genre meant for the depressed teens...that should just be pussy punk...emo should just be a term for certain songs that show some sort of emotion...not just for their petty love lives, but for deeper things too. another thing, i also actually don't beleive in "depressed" teens...sure if they've gone through serious problems, i can see...but i'm 16, i've gone through shit, but it hasn't made me depressed. i was talking to a girl on aim who's a few years younger than

me...here's how the conversation went
me: haven't seen you on in a while
her: yeah, sports and stuff
me: how's life been treating you
her: like shit
me: why's that, what's been going on?
her: boyz

tell me, why should a teenager in junior high be depressed because they don't have a boyfriend? and you may say that the depressed-teen emo genre is perfect fitting music for teens' problems...but it isn't. not having a significant other at this age is NOT a problem. it's a priviledge in my book. REAL teen problems are those like parents going through divorce, family conflict, parents getting layed off, etc....but that's all i have to say about this, i get tired of talking about teen angst

[psyco_jeter]

favorite bands would be

TOOL
Slipknot
MuDvAyNe's old stuff
Nirvana
creed
Korn
deftones
APC
Metallica's old stuff
stabbing westward
Bush
pearl jam
Rage against the machine

oh, by the way, i hate good charlotte (with a deep, firey, growing, twitching, passion) and if i see any more fuckin 50 cent, im going to shoot myself.....


*looks at TV* .......*BANG!*

[onebyone]

This is sad that anyone in this forum can appreciate STinkin excuse me linkin park. the only influence they have is ghetto loving rap. im sorry for the people that arent muscians and cant understand how simple the stinkin park songs are. tool doesnt play the hardest riffs there solos arent he hardest licks but they are the most influincial band to me ever. i enjoy staind due to the meanin in all aarons's songs. but linkin park blows. i love all sorts of stuff from finger eleven and dust for life, to tom petty. but i cant stand anyone that wants to make a song to be put on the radio like linkin park. lets look all hip and be cool so we can get on the radio. and act like we have a bad ass side to us. when really we are rappers and back street boys on crack. if i had it my way they would all never be able to sing again or make another guitar riff.

[supersonic2006]

System Of A Down
Disturbed
Staind
Linkin Park
Incubus
Garth Brooks (he's country, but hell, go on and make fun of me)
Puddle Of Mudd

I do agree that Linkin Park's music isn't really that great when it comes down to like guitar riffs and whatever, but I still like it. It's good music. I like what I like.
I just don't see what it is with Staind's MUSIC that's bad, but I heard on the radio that Aaron Lewis is coming out with his own clothing line? Talk about selling out, holy shit.

[onebyone]

if thats true he is selling out like a bitch. but the thing is linkin park aint music. most of there stuff can be made with a simple machine. bands that play music are as follow besides tool

Days Of The New
Dust For Life
Fuel (laugh if you want)
staind
earshot
FINGER ELEVEN
creeds first album
Tom Petty
and more

[Flood]

My friend always played Linkin Park and Staind in his car. Staind I can stand for a bit..they have some good songs but the lyrics are soooo repetitive. Linkin Park SUCKS BALLS. I hate the turntables and the guy's voice is annoying to me. Especially when he yells.

Anyway some of my fave bands are:

Tool
A Perfect Circle
System of a Down
Korn (first 2 CD's)
Alice in Chains
Rage Against the Machine
Dredg
Opeth
Pink Floyd
Agalloch (well, I've only heard like 3 of their songs and they sound damn good..I've already ordered one of their CD's.)

[mongoose]

Everyone who says tool is above the industry, they aren't. They are an incredibly creative and thought provoking band, that's why I love them so much. But in their uniqueness and mysteriousness they make a lot of money. Is this just them being creative? I don't think so. I think that a lot of it is geared towards making money. They are just a lot smarter than moronic bands that just for the cliche marketing. By 'not caring' about what the industry thinks they seem to be going for money just as all the other bands.

"All you know about me is what I've sold you, Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name... All you read and Wear or see and Hear on TV Is a product Begging for your Fatass dirty Dollar"

So basically tool told us right there, all their cool unique stuff is still a product for the masses. A lot of you probably know all this already, but I just thought I'd just say it because i know some people who don't realize this.

--Mongoose

[a useful idiot]

I didn't quite read this thread because it's staind bashing and I agree with it and there's just no point because they all they do is whine about themselves. job's done already.

what I came here for is to tell you that staind made a cover of sober .. you can find the video on kazaa.

file name :
Staind - Sober (live Tool cover).mpeg

[mindbender1]

the fact is bands like staind and linkin park r garbage 2 me.THey suck so why bother discussing them(i love being a hypocrite).
whiny puling ``pauvre moi`` lyrics and the neo heavy thing r actually an irritation 2 me because they help stereotype the genre i love. Dont discuss korn clones try instead 2 find valid original music(or at least semi original). Bands like Staind contribute nothing of worth to music......its pop bubblegum radio friendly crap.
PS Fred durst is a tool

(DONT yell at me staind fans lol)
Regards the
MInDBenDer

[neochrist]

i like some of stainds earlier work but i agree with the fact that pop music got to them and they started making bullshit music to be famous, anyways my favorite groups are....

TOOL...of course
system of a down
rage against the machine
the melvins
led zepplin....definately of course
pink floyd
the who
living sacrifice
nothingface
and last but definately not least...fear factory

[Mr. Zebra]

Most of the people posting seem to disregard bands/artists that are actually unique and musically experimental- fascinating, cosidering you're all Tool fans. Most of you also seem to feel the need to classify music in a category, as opposed to simply evaluating it based on its individual merits. On that note, my influences as a musician and theorist are...
Nine Inch Nails (The Fragile, especially)
Tori Amos
Fiona Apple
King Crimson
Plumb (Self Titled and Candycoatedwaterdrops)
Soundgarden
The Smashing Pumpkins
Poe (esp. Haunted)
The Cherry Poppin' Daddies (Soul Caddy is genius)
The Red Hot Chili Peppers
Dave Navarro's Solo Album, Trust No One
Chris Cornell's Solo Album, Euphoria Morning
Metallica (ALL OF IT!)
Natalie Imbruglia
Frank Zappa
Marylin Manson; although he can be self indulgent, he's a brillaint entertainer.The Golden Age of Grotesque, Antichrist Superstar, and Mechanical Animals took some impressive musical leaps, and no one matches his pure animal fury when playing live. Just don't sit front and center- he tends to spit and sweat a lot. I kept making that mistake.
The Police
Sting, and numerous other modern jazz musicians including Andy Summers' solo work.
John Rutter, the composer and conductor. I sang in a choir directed by him at a Carnegie Hall performance of some peices he wrote, the Gloria and the Te Deum. He's a genius; The dense chords and experimental harmonies he toyed with nearly had me pissing my pants.
Eminem
real, good, poetic, underground hip hop that gets absolutely no commercial exposure. Also The Beastie Boys, Tupac, Lauren Hill, Outkast, Busta Rhymes, and NERD(for production)- it's sad that no one here seems to appreciate or even understand good hip-hop.

What is it with everybody and worshipping Led Zeppelin? They were great and all, but Soundgarden, The Smashing Pumpkins and Tool made them completely obsolete. And think about that statement before you have the knee-jerk "Led Zeppelin Are Gods" reaction- plus Plant's lyrics were asinine, for the most part.

[Scobularni]

some of my other favourites:

estradasphere
fanfare ciocarlia
tub ring
secret chiefs 3
fantomas
tomahawk
dog fashion disco
sigur ros
deftones
melt banana
serart
dredg
sleepytime gorilla museum
the left rights



personally i think bands such as linkin park and limp bizkit, are quintessential for the growth of modern rock music, as kids will get into them, then use it as a springboard to find other, "better" bands. i know thats what i did.

[RecapModotti]

I really dont see the connection or "jump" being made from linkin park etc. to tool or any of the bands you just listed, it doesnt take anyone to be familiar with music to realize that 99.9% of the stuff on radio\tv is garbage.

I understand your point on using bands as stepping stones but tool is a stepping stone to other things while i could never see linkin park, stand or limp bizkit as one, because I think if i was just starting to listen to music and I heard that music i would be discouraged about listeing to music or digging into its depths more because of their music.

[Elgyn]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zebra
What is it with everybody and worshipping Led Zeppelin? They were great and all, but Soundgarden, The Smashing Pumpkins and Tool made them completely obsolete. And think about that statement before you have the knee-jerk "Led Zeppelin Are Gods" reaction- plus Plant's lyrics were asinine, for the most part.


You do realise that is just your opinion right?

I feel the need to justify my opinion, because I don't "worship" Led Zeppelin, but I love their music. I don't have all their albums, and I didn't start listening to them because I saw that people who liked Tool also liked Led Zeppelin, or because Tool covered a song of theirs, I got into them from mates at school. Not that I should need to justify that.
I agree that some of their lyrics were pretty basic, but I prefer to focus on what they do musically. They started experimenting with some interesting timing and structuring in songs, which I think has influenced a lot of bands today. I could list a lot of their songs which I really love, but hey... I won't get in to that.

Most people who like Led Zeppelin probably just like them because its good music, not because its 'cool' to like them.

I'm not flaming you here, just saying that you're making a generalisation that "everybody" worships Led Zeppelin...

You're obviously an intelligent person, just don't forget that you're not the only one....

[Mr. Zebra]

Elgyn- Yeah, point taken. Even though I feel like we've moved beyond it, Zeppelin's musical experimentation opened innumerable doors. I guess I was just venting some frustration I have about people (some of my freinds, in particular) who verbally throttle me every time I point out the slightest flaw in the Zeppelin. Among large groups where I live, believe it or not, people AREN'T into them because of their music, but just because they're Led Zeppelin, and Led Zeppelin is the best band ever, blah blah blah blah... you wouldn't BELIEVE the frequency with which I get those kind of responses from people. Your kind of interest in the band, I understand. Theirs, I don't. But either way, sorry for letting my personal frustrations with sheep people bubble out onto the undoubtedly large INTELLIGENT Zeppelin fan base. I agree with what you said about the song structure, too- in my opinion, experiments in that direction were their greatest achievement. And yes, I realize that this is all just my opinion- I always operate under the assumption that anything I utter at any given moment could be complete bullshit. That way I don't feel so bad when someone points it out. :)

[axe4moe]

Elgyn- Yeah, point taken. Even though I feel like we've moved beyond it, Zeppelin's musical experimentation opened innumerable doors. I guess I was just venting some frustration I have about people (some of my freinds, in particular) who verbally throttle me every time I point out the slightest flaw in the Zeppelin. Among large groups where I live, believe it or not, people AREN'T into them because of their music, but just because they're Led Zeppelin, and Led Zeppelin is the best band ever, blah blah blah blah... you wouldn't BELIEVE the frequency with which I get those kind of responses from people

The thin to understand about Zeppelin is FOR THIER TIME, they were head above the rest. comparing them too tool is like comparing the first motor car ever made with an F1 car; theres no point to it because appreciation is coming from two different perspectives. the motor car (Led Zeppelin) back in it's day was a breakthrough in technology(music), whereas an F1 (TOOL) and the like is that technology (music) upgraded, refined and therefore is seen as better. it's all about respect for musical history.

[Mr. Zebra]

That's what I'm saying- I understand and appreciate that (I have to- I'm a Music Theory major). These people that I'm complaining about though, in the small town I'm from- they know jack shit about music history or theory, believe me. They worship (and I do mean worship) Led Zeppelin solely because they're Led Zeppelin. Seriously, people, you'd have to see this crap to believe it. It's scary. And I was just venting about that, which is what I apologized for. These are people that claim that, even apart from historical perspective, Zeppelin is the Greatest Band That Will Ever Exist, period. My town is crawling with them. But I do believe that Led Zeppelin perpetrated some indispensible advances, esp. in the area of song structure and progression, like Elgyn said. I'm not some uninformed Zeppelin Hater, I swear. I just get bombarded daily with Led Sheep.

[Elgyn]

Mr. Zebra,
I understand where you are coming from... its like people who only like things which are played on the radio because they're in fashion at the moment. I know a lot of people who are like that... "but.... but... they're the best...", and I know where you're coming from a little better now.
It doesn't bother me that you don't like Zeppelin, because not everyone is going to, thats just the way things are. I wasn't meaning to defend them or anything, although I guess in some ways I did.

I like your point about always being aware that you could be wrong. Means you're receptive to new ideas and so on, which is definately healthy. I try and do the same, but generally I find most people here are pretty good about accepting opinions.

Hope I didn't piss you off too much with my post though...
Go well, friend.

[Macrame]

If you're all agreeing that what was said was just an opinion then why is there any arguing going on?

Since we're on the subject of opinions ... I think I'll share mine a little (feel free to judge as you please, because you all live x+2 miles away from me and it doesn't really matter what you think)

Led Zeppelin was a horrible waste of time for everybody. Fuck what they did to music. They didn't do shit because if they didn't exist there would've been some other band that could've written shit loads of better songs to come along and do it for them. They shouldn't have ever gotten a label. Yeah, they brought up different structures and timing and shit for songs ... bullshit! It doesn't take too much time to read into Classical music or Baroque (it's 3:18 am so I'm not quite sure if I spelled it correctly) or ANYTHING ELSE (especially once you get into Bach) to realize that all they did was do a shitty job of copying somebody else. They weren't even that great for their time. Sure, the people thought they were great ... but look who's big and popular now. Fucking Phlegminem and Linkin Park. Should they get credit for taking music in different directions because they're names are big now? Hell no ... instead of wasting our ass sweat on pissing "Led Zeppeln" on our walls we can look at the THREE original contoversies. The THREE original controversies (or moments of penetration, listen to Stinkfist and you'll know my say) would have to be Elvis Presley (for sex appeal), The Beatles (for bringing out the green side of the forest), and Black Sabbath (for scaring the shit out of everybody). What did Led Zeppelin do? Get up on stage and sing about rock and roll ... kind of like how Kid Rock's first hit song started out with "MY NAME IS KID ROCK!" Led Zeppelin had that hole "We want to be badasses because we're a bunch of punk bitch rock'n rollers!" Please ... you've all heard their lame ass songs which cry out rock and roll. Led Zeppelin just took a shit on some hobo's chest and called it art (that's my analogy to how horrible their "music" is).

There's my opinion, now fuck it like a bitch.

[Macrame]

By the way ... I don't mind if any one of you defend Led Zeppelin, one of my two very best friends is in love with the band (I just give him loads of shit). I do, however, like having something to rant about :p

[eslupminoyler]

tool
metallica(before load)
zeppelin
dream theatre
portis head
disturbed
rush
soundgarden
Dave Mathews band(there unpopular music is actually deep)
Mozart
Beethoven
NIN
radiohead
sublime
Enya(incredible when high)

Bands that induce death:

almost everything else

[Mr. Zebra]

Macrame- So you're saying that no one should ever write music, because of the Beatles, Elvis, and Black Sabbath? Hmmm. Have you ever heard "Jailhouse Rock" or "Blue Suede Shoes"? How can you argue lyrical substance as a reason to completely disregard Led Zeppelin? And you said yourself that their musical experimentation was worthwhile, but that route would have been taken by someone else had they not come along- that could be said about ANY BAND IN EXISTENCE (including Tool, The Beatles, Elvis, and Black Sabbath). Should the artists recieve no credit? Elvis was simply mimicking Little Richard, James Brown, most of all, Chuck Berry- but he was white, so people paid attention. You could run in these circles for hours, or you could just credit artists with the advances that they DO make instead of spewing profanity-laced derogatory comments with no sustainable logic to back them up. What are you accomplishing??

Oh- and I think Eminem is a genius.

[Macrame]

Hey man, that doesn't change the fact that they sound like shit. To say that your argument makes any accomplishment is to give credit to every other meaningless contradiction made. You can't say anything about accomplishments, because all you did was make a big "nuh uh" statement ... expecting I would reply "uh huh." Well, shut the fuck up :)

[Mr. Zebra]

Macrame- Did you read my post? Read it again. I said that we should credit artists with the things that they DO accomplish. Even you admitted to Zeppelin's applications of Baroque and Classical song structure and their integration of it into rock music. If we judged everyone based on the fact that someone else could have done what they did, then everyone would be subject to ridicule. You said Elvis was a "big controversy"? All Elvis did was rip off black music to begin with- Chuck Berry, mostly. It was only controversial because he was white, not because his music was new and different. And if you think Led Zeppelin sounds like shit, that's fine. Don't listen to them. That's your perogative. I'm not a big Zep fan myself. But the fact that other people enjoy their music shouldn't get your panties in a wad. Some people don't hold the opinion that they sound like shit. I'd rather hear them on the radio than Good Charlotte or Britney Spears.

What's up with everybody resorting to insults on this site? Every time I state my opinion (on an "opinion" page, no less), someone slings mud at me. You just told me to "shut the fuck up." Why? Isn't this a dialogue? Didn't you invite people to discuss what you said? I'm confused.

[Macrame]

And YOU didn't read my post. My post was that simply Led Zeppelin sucked ass, and that's what my opinion was. I simply stated that disregarding all of the movements they supposedly made, their music was awful and I don't feel it deserves credit. The reason I'm arguing is because you're stuffing this forum with a whole load of shit saying that I SHOULD credit them. Well, I told you to shut the fuck up stating that I still hold my right to bear my opinion. Until you start submitting opinions of your own without telling me how to make mine ... your speech privelages will no longer be revoked.

But until then, shut the fuck up.

[Mr. Zebra]

Macrame- I still don't get it. All I've been doing is posting my opinion, and I never told you to "shut the fuck up". I said that if you hate Zep, that's fine- but some people don't, and they're just as entitled to their opinions as you are to yours. And just by DISAGREEING with you I'm "filling this forum with shit"? If you don't want people to post opposing opinions or debate with you, you should probably say so to begin with. But instead, you said, "here's my opinion; now fuck it like a bitch". I'm just following your directions. If you're not mature enough to handle this kind of discussion, that's OK. Just let us know in advance, please, so we don't waste our time.

It's also kind of amusing (and a bit sad) that you think you can "revoke" my speech priveleges. Or that I'll listen when you try to.

[neochrist]

i would just like to state that first of all, macrame's taste in music is already questioned by his admission of listening to "the used", i also used there cd, its a cup holder in my garage, second of all im not trying to offend macrame, i'm just saying he's an idiot....and that is my opinion. thirdly of all, yes i said thirdly, led zeppelin is a great band....also my opinion. fourthly of all, yes i did it again, macrame your an idiot for telling mr. zebra to and i quote "shut the fuck up", because mr. zebra didnt say anything, he typed a bunch of words, next time, to be POLITICALLY CORRECT, type "stop typing fucking words", lastly i would like to state, i dont want to lower myself to macrame's standards, i will not tell him to SHUT THE FUCK UP, or say things about him like, HE KNOWS LESS THAN NOTHING, or call him names such as, FUCKING IDIOT or JACKASS. he is intitled to his opinion, just like everybody else....adios

[Macrame]

Calm it neochrist. I was hardly serious throughout the entire arguing aspect of all this, and was even playing around when I spoke out my opinions. Yes, I think that Zep is a piece of shit band that only had two good songs out of way too many. No, I don't actually believe Mr. Zebra should shut the fuck up (notice the smiley after I said it).

P.S. It won't chap my ass if you respond, but don't expect me to continue arguing

[Underalus]

I don't listen to that much but here we go:

Tool
APC
Deftones
Rush (why does no one listen to them)
Nirvana (a little)
Rage (A little)
Alexisonfire (crazy canadian screamo)

Some Zep, AC\DC, Audioslave, some other crap that i can't remember but a whackload of good songs by various artists that I must listen to more. What's up with Sigur Ros, why don't they name anything? Their video is pretty frightening. What do they sound like, and what does Dream Theater sound like also?

[neochrist]

i still think your an idiot....

[ihatemickjagger]

Rush (why does no one listen to them)


it's a shame. rush is the best prog rock i've heard.

just listen to their song "The Trees". great acoustic work, bass, lyrics, drums, EVERYTHING. geddy lee's voice is fascinatingly high, and it's not annoying. just because it's high pitched doesn't mean it's annoying. james labrie of dreamtheater, now THAT's a bit annoying. but geddy does have hell of a voice on him, he can't help it that his vocal chords were made smaller than the average man. he's oen hell of a bassist too, for that matter.

[Peeete]

Eminem
real, good, poetic, underground hip hop that gets absolutely no commercial exposure. Also The Beastie Boys, Tupac, Lauren Hill, Outkast, Busta Rhymes, and NERD(for production)- it's sad that no one here seems to appreciate or even understand good hip-hop.


EMINEM IS NOT HIP-HOP!!!!!!!!!!

DAMN if eminem was hiphop id put a bullet in my brain...and definately not UNDERGROUND!

if u want hiphop check The Herd, Beastie Boys, Katalyst, DJ Format, Downsyde, MC Trey, Ugly Duckling, Jurassic 5, etc. And make sure to check out the Aussie stuff.

...no commercial exposure...best one i've heard in a long time...

[Mr. Zebra]

I didn't say that. Listen carefully. I said I like Eminem, and those popular artists I mentioned, AND underground hip-hop (Antipop Consortium, etc.)-a lot of the raw spoken-wordsmiths I saw in clubs while living in N.Y. have never seen a dime for their efforts; they just chase open mike nights from club to club, and they're some of the best I've ever heard. That was who I was reffering to when I said "no commercial exposure". And I know and love all the artists you mentioned- but I haven't looked into much Aussie hip-hop... I'll have to do that. Thanks for the tip. I'm seeing Jurassic 5 at Lolapalooza this weekend. Wahoo!

Oh- I'm not particularly fat. Or gay, though, I must admit, Trent Reznor is pretty sexy. I don't mind being known as a fuck, though... that's actually pretty cool... ;)

How is Eminem not hip-hop? I mean, if you hate him, fine, but that doesn't mean he's not hip-hop.

[SiDMaN101]

Ok no bashing bands I find to be shit. Tool is unlike any band because they make music they love and like to listen to. Do you really think staind or Linkin Park go out every night and enjoy hearing their shit no I doubt it.

Bands I like
TooL
APC
Pantera
SuperJoint
Killswitch Engage
Slipknot (Marketing tool but it jams)
Some mudvayne
white Zombie
NiN
Alice In Chains
Manson (last 2 albums let downs thou)
Nirvana
Old Metallica
Pink Floyd
Dylan
Zeppelin
Jimi hendrix
Some Kittie (bitch can scream)
Rage
Tom Petty

I'm sure their are others but who cares.

[EjectaWheel]

Tool(duh)
APC
Radiohead
Cold
Otep
Travis
STP
NIN
Rob Zombie
Days of the New
12 Stones
Chevelle
Pink Floyd
Live
Skrape
Black Label Society
Mudvayne(some)
Fear Factory(again, some songs)
Living Sacrifice
Depeche Mode
Rush
Coal Chamber
Earshot
Pulse Ultra
Godsmack
Porcupine Tree(Coma Divine, In Absentia)
Eagles
Clinic
not necessarily in that order.

there's the list, not that any of you care, but here it is.

[Restrain_yourself]

GO TO SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT


GO TO SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT


Peace----------- and Goodbye

[g-bay-be]

I just wanted to throw in my two cents. A band could be influenced by another yet sound nothing like them. I play in a band that plays punk rock. you guys would probably say it is a disgrace that i say that i am influenced by tool. and that i say it will reflect into the music. but heres where it really is. i put every bit of emotion into the music we play and the lyrics i write. I draw from my own emotion and i put that through microphone and some drum sticks. Tool puts a shit load of emotion through thier instruments too.


as for music i listen to :
thursday, thrice, coheed, sublime, weaker thans, minus the bear, Nirvana, alice in chains, soundgarden, pearl jam, silver chair, and modest mouse and a few others. well of course TOOL and APC

[endorphins]

"Talent imitates; genius steals." - TS Eliot

[Talonwulf]

Sounds liek fun!

Metallica [kill em all - black]
Alice in chains
A perfect circle
System of a down
Rage against the machine
Machine Head
Queens of the stoneage
Pearl Jam
KoRn
Nirvana
Iron Maiden

In no particular order

Korn got there name cos there was a story bout 2 guys at his school who were licking each others asses. One lblew diarreah in their face, and they opened their mouth... a corn kernal was on his tongue. Jon Davis then went around saying "corn" to ppl to make em throw up. Then hed write it like a kid to make it "sinister"... or thats what he says anyway

Staind... hate em. Limp Bizkit.... hate em. Linkin Park... hate em. Odd thing is i used t like them! AAARGH! I should of shot myself then. I alos hate punk bands, cos their losin their way. Whats the point in singing about having a good time and fucking sum girl... It used to be political... for shame punk... for shame... pussies...

[Schizophrenic]

The guitar pieces to the chorus of Staind's song outside, and the verses to maynard's dick are identical.