A Different Take on this Song...

[Black]

OK, I am entirely new to this forum, and I absolutley HATE internet arguments and the like. Therefore, I will not engage in any bashing or intense debates. My own mental health doesn't really allow for that. So if you disagree, please try to explain why in calm and rational terms, OK? I just wanted to throw a different take out there to see if anyone else sees what I have always seen in this song.

As a part of an introduction, I should say that I am a woman, living in America, though not born here, and that I am on the back side of 30. I don't think I want to share more info than that at this time, but I would like to try to discuss some of the ideas I have about the greatest music ever created............

I have been a huge Tool fan for a long time, and 46&2 is one of my favorite songs. As such, I have tried to see what others interpreted this song to mean. But I have always been kind of surprised by the chromosomal and evolutionary take that so many people have come up with.

I guess maybe I see everything different, but I find it difficult to read this interpretation into these lyrics. I have always felt a different idea coming through. I look at the lyrics more at face value, and the song seems to be talking from a personal perspective of someone who has been struggling with something very negative in his life, and he feels like he might be coming through it now.

The reference to picking scabs is common in psycholgical and therapist circles as a metaphor for digging back into one's psyche and opening old wounds in an effort to attempt to heal them. One has to "pick at the scabs" to get better......

There are a lot of other references in the song to pain and suffering and attempting to overcome these feelings through turning inward and working through them himself.

**********

I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own confused
And insecure delusions
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in.
I wanna feel the changes coming down.
I wanna know what I've been hiding in

******************

and:

I wanna feel the change consume me,
Feel the outside turning in.
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and
Cleansing I've endured within

****************

and:

I choose to live and to
Grow, take and give and to
Move, learn and love and to
Cry, kill and die and to
Be paranoid and to
Lie, hate and fear and to
Do what it takes to move through.

I choose to live and to
Lie, kill and give and to
Die, learn and love and to
Do what it takes to step through.

************************

Taken at face value, rather than attempting to impose some level of metaphysical over-meaning to these lyrics, what it means to me is this is someone who has been dealing with a rather intense internal struggle, and he is searching for a way through it. It need not necessarily mean more than what it says, right? Perhaps the song is about exactly what Maynard was writing at the time. Perhaps????

Anyway, as I read and re-read the lyrics, the one reference that stands out as obscure has always been the "46 & 2 right in front of me"....

And what so many others have interpreted is a chromosomal reference, seems to me to mean something else. I have always seen (heard?) something altogether different here.

I read the lines about "choosing to live", and I can't help but relate them back to some of my own personal experiences when that choice could go either way, and I come to a conclusion (my own opinion, granted) that the song is about a PERSONAL thought process about dealing with a very hard and challenging time in his life, and not about chromosomal alterations.

So what does the line "46 & 2 right in front of me" mean???

What I think he is referring to is TIME. 46 years......and 2 months......of TIME.

Does anyone else see this? ANYONE?

Maynard was about 30 or so when he wrote the song, right? The average life expectancy of a man is somewhere around 76 years.......a man aged 30, and struggling through something really difficult just might be inclined to be looking out ahead of him ("right in front of me"), and seeing that getting through this hard stretch will yield to him the remainder of his life. And what is the remainder of his life, using a statistical average?

46 years and 2 months..........perhaps?

I don't know. I really don't. I am curious to know if Maynard himself has ever weighed in on exactly what he had in mind with the song, or if the chromosomal idea has ever had any kind of confirmation by the song's author. If not, who's to say the chromosomal explaination is correct.

Opinions anyone?

Thanks for your time,
Black

[Inner_Eulogy]

OK, I am entirely new to this forum, and I absolutley HATE internet arguments and the like. Therefore, I will not engage in any bashing or intense debates. My own mental health doesn't really allow for that. So if you disagree, please try to explain why in calm and rational terms, OK? I just wanted to throw a different take out there to see if anyone else sees what I have always seen in this song.

As a part of an introduction, I should say that I am a woman, living in America, though not born here, and that I am on the back side of 30. I don't think I want to share more info than that at this time, but I would like to try to discuss some of the ideas I have about the greatest music ever created............

I have been a huge Tool fan for a long time, and 46&2 is one of my favorite songs. As such, I have tried to see what others interpreted this song to mean. But I have always been kind of surprised by the chromosomal and evolutionary take that so many people have come up with.

I guess maybe I see everything different, but I find it difficult to read this interpretation into these lyrics. I have always felt a different idea coming through. I look at the lyrics more at face value, and the song seems to be talking from a personal perspective of someone who has been struggling with something very negative in his life, and he feels like he might be coming through it now.

The reference to picking scabs is common in psycholgical and therapist circles as a metaphor for digging back into one's psyche and opening old wounds in an effort to attempt to heal them. One has to "pick at the scabs" to get better......

There are a lot of other references in the song to pain and suffering and attempting to overcome these feelings through turning inward and working through them himself.

**********

I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own confused
And insecure delusions
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in.
I wanna feel the changes coming down.
I wanna know what I've been hiding in

******************

and:

I wanna feel the change consume me,
Feel the outside turning in.
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and
Cleansing I've endured within

****************

and:

I choose to live and to
Grow, take and give and to
Move, learn and love and to
Cry, kill and die and to
Be paranoid and to
Lie, hate and fear and to
Do what it takes to move through.

I choose to live and to
Lie, kill and give and to
Die, learn and love and to
Do what it takes to step through.

************************

Taken at face value, rather than attempting to impose some level of metaphysical over-meaning to these lyrics, what it means to me is this is someone who has been dealing with a rather intense internal struggle, and he is searching for a way through it. It need not necessarily mean more than what it says, right? Perhaps the song is about exactly what Maynard was writing at the time. Perhaps????

Anyway, as I read and re-read the lyrics, the one reference that stands out as obscure has always been the "46 & 2 right in front of me"....

And what so many others have interpreted is a chromosomal reference, seems to me to mean something else. I have always seen (heard?) something altogether different here.

I read the lines about "choosing to live", and I can't help but relate them back to some of my own personal experiences when that choice could go either way, and I come to a conclusion (my own opinion, granted) that the song is about a PERSONAL thought process about dealing with a very hard and challenging time in his life, and not about chromosomal alterations.

So what does the line "46 & 2 right in front of me" mean???

What I think he is referring to is TIME. 46 years......and 2 months......of TIME.

Does anyone else see this? ANYONE?

Maynard was about 30 or so when he wrote the song, right? The average life expectancy of a man is somewhere around 76 years.......a man aged 30, and struggling through something really difficult just might be inclined to be looking out ahead of him ("right in front of me"), and seeing that getting through this hard stretch will yield to him the remainder of his life. And what is the remainder of his life, using a statistical average?

46 years and 2 months..........perhaps?

I don't know. I really don't. I am curious to know if Maynard himself has ever weighed in on exactly what he had in mind with the song, or if the chromosomal idea has ever had any kind of confirmation by the song's author. If not, who's to say the chromosomal explaination is correct.

Opinions anyone?

Thanks for your time,
Black

Well, I think you're half right...about the internal personal struggle and patching up his own issues, but it's a combination of that in reference to the 46&2 theory of evolution. He is battling within himself to evolve as a human being, thus the reference to human evolution and the chromosomes. Currently the human race is at 44&2. The idea is in theory anyway that 46&2 signifies a higher state of being. The song is simply about facing himself and conquering oneself in order to acheive enlightment.

(edit) Also, you should read up on Carl Jung. There are many references related to his work in both H. and 46&2. The shadow and the snake for instance. This will give you a better insight and understanding.

[Black]

Well, I think you're half right...about the internal personal struggle and patching up his own issues, but it's a combination of that in reference to the 46&2 theory of evolution. He is battling within himself to evolve as a human being, thus the reference to human evolution and the chromosomes. Currently the human race is at 44&2. The idea is in theory anyway that 46&2 signifies a higher state of being. The song is simply about facing himself and conquering oneself in order to acheive enlightment.

(edit) Also, you should read up on Carl Jung. There are many references related to his work in both H. and 46&2. The shadow and the snake for instance. This will give you a better insight and understanding.

Thanks for replying. I was wondering if anyone even read it.

Trust me when I say I've read my share of Jung. I've read through more Jung than I care to admit. I find the shadow references and the theories postulated that go with them to be interesting. I just don't buy it yet. I think Jungian Psychology is a part of the explaination, but I don't think the chromosomal theory is on at all.

There is absolutely no reason at all for anyone to presuppose that we are going to evolve two more chromosomes any time soon. No evidence of this eventuality exists within medical or scientific circles. When I research through evolutionary biology, I find no references to this idea anywhere. I can't figure out where this idea even came from, but there is nothing whatsoever from a biological or scientific basis for the idea that humans will be adding two more chromosomes. Even if we did, it wouldn't necessarily mean an advancement in the species. Most mutations are maladaptive in nature. Only a tiny percentage prove to actually assist the species they occur in.

I really think this is a leap in logic that someone somewhere made while trying to figure out this song, and people have just kind of run with it without ever questioning the concept. They have read it in the FAQ, and accepted it on faith, which exactly the OPPOSITE of one of Tool's main messages--to think for yourself.

People born today with chromosomal abnormailities face all sorts of difficulties. If they survive at all, their chances of reproducing are minimal at best. Our societies today totally abhor anything "not normal" Trust me, I can vouch for that statement. A child born with extra chromosomes would be doomed to a miserable life, not be held up as an advancement in human evolution. Even IF the mutation were something adaptive, he or she would still be villified for it, and likely never have a family. Human nature HATES difference.

The theories about this song are interesting......and I can't say I know they're incorrect.....but I have yet to see anything in the way of substantiation for the oft-repeated chromosomal interpretations. It sort of bothers me that, for instance in the FAQ, the explainations given have generally been accepted as gospel and only elaborated upon, rather than ever being challenged. I think there are a number of different possibilities. They are only ideas, posted in the absence of any explaination from the actual author. I don't know if anyone has ever noticed this.

When I look at the lyrics, one thing stands out above all, and it's NOT the enigmatic title of the song. What instead stands out to me is the number of times the author refeneces three words:

I, me, and my.

Look through the lyrics again objectively. Look through them without preconceived notions, like you've never seen them before. He's talking about himeslf, above all. HE has been crawling on his belly. HE has been wallowing in HIS insecure delusions. It's song about HIM. It's a story about something HE went through. It may or may not be referencing some other things on a differnet level, but it certainly IS referencing a very personal struggle.

THAT, to me, is the heart and soul of the song. Maynard doesn't write strictly about himself very often, but I think this is a case where he certainly did.

Again.......just my take on it.

Thanks for your opinion. I appreciate it.

Black

[fretforyourfigure462]

I really enjoyed reading your interpretation. Like mjkajdcjc said, I think you're half right. I liked your idea of the age thing, it was a stretch, but a well thought out idea.

[Black]

I really enjoyed reading your interpretation. Like mjkajdcjc said, I think you're half right. I liked your idea of the age thing, it was a stretch, but a well thought out idea.

Thanks.

So.....you don't think the chromosomal interpretation is a bit of a stretch too?

[UtUmNo1]

My own mental health doesn't really allow for that.

giggity

I was wondering if anyone even read it.

Nup.










































paraflux, please delete my post. I should know better but I couldn't help it. You understand. Don't you? Brother?

[imatoolhed]

Shadow:

Carl Jung called "the shadow" a dark space in our psyche that all of us have but none of us like to admit is there.

Meaning of 46 and 2:

There are 3 different kinds of humans on the Earth, meaning that they perceive reality in three different ways:

42 and 2
44 and 2
46 and 2

the numbers refer to chromosome composition, double helix, DNA.

42 and 2 comprise a unity consciousness that does not see anything outside themselves as being separate from themselves. to them, there is only one energy - one life, one beingness that moves everywhere. Anything happening anywhere is within them, as well. they are like cells in the body. they are all connected to a single consciousness that moves through all of them. tribes in Africa are like this.

44 and 2: this is us. a disharmonic level of consciousness. its a stepping stone from the current level to the next level...

46 and 2: the next level of human consciousness. all it takes is 2 extra chromosomes.


In Carl Jung's personality theory, the ego represents the individual's sense of personal self. The sense of personal identity is purchased, however, at the expense of certain tendencies that are rejected as 'not-self'. According to Jung, these rejected traits come together as a kind of unconscious 'counter-ego' which he termed the shadow. The shadow is the most powerful and potentially the most dangerous. It represents everything about ourselves that we fear and despise.

Meaning of 46 and 2:

According to Drunvalo Melchizadek, our planet is covered with geometrically constructed 'morpho genetic grids'. These grids extend from about 60 feet under the Earth's surface to about 60 miles above the Earth, arranged in geometric patterns. Before any species can come into existance or make an evolutionary step, a new grid must be completed.

A new grid was completed in 1989 - the 'christ-consciousness' grid. This grid will allow humans to evolve into our next version. We'll develop two additional chromosomes (which are really 'geometrical images' designed to resonate with our specific grid) for a total or 46 + 2.

The main change will be a shift to the "unity consciousness". Every cell in your body has its own consciousness and memory. You, the higher being that occupies your body, make the millions of different consciousnesses in your body work together as one being. How does this relate to this grid? Think of yourself as a cell and the grid as the higher being. We will still have individual consciousness, but will be united in the form of a higher being in order to work as one entity.

[Black]

Shadow:

Carl Jung called "the shadow" a dark space in our psyche that all of us have but none of us like to admit is there.

Meaning of 46 and 2:

There are 3 different kinds of humans on the Earth, meaning that they perceive reality in three different ways:

42 and 2
44 and 2
46 and 2

the numbers refer to chromosome composition, double helix, DNA.

42 and 2 comprise a unity consciousness that does not see anything outside themselves as being separate from themselves. to them, there is only one energy - one life, one beingness that moves everywhere. Anything happening anywhere is within them, as well. they are like cells in the body. they are all connected to a single consciousness that moves through all of them. tribes in Africa are like this.

44 and 2: this is us. a disharmonic level of consciousness. its a stepping stone from the current level to the next level...

46 and 2: the next level of human consciousness. all it takes is 2 extra chromosomes.


In Carl Jung's personality theory, the ego represents the individual's sense of personal self. The sense of personal identity is purchased, however, at the expense of certain tendencies that are rejected as 'not-self'. According to Jung, these rejected traits come together as a kind of unconscious 'counter-ego' which he termed the shadow. The shadow is the most powerful and potentially the most dangerous. It represents everything about ourselves that we fear and despise.

Meaning of 46 and 2:

According to Drunvalo Melchizadek, our planet is covered with geometrically constructed 'morpho genetic grids'. These grids extend from about 60 feet under the Earth's surface to about 60 miles above the Earth, arranged in geometric patterns. Before any species can come into existance or make an evolutionary step, a new grid must be completed.

A new grid was completed in 1989 - the 'christ-consciousness' grid. This grid will allow humans to evolve into our next version. We'll develop two additional chromosomes (which are really 'geometrical images' designed to resonate with our specific grid) for a total or 46 + 2.

The main change will be a shift to the "unity consciousness". Every cell in your body has its own consciousness and memory. You, the higher being that occupies your body, make the millions of different consciousnesses in your body work together as one being. How does this relate to this grid? Think of yourself as a cell and the grid as the higher being. We will still have individual consciousness, but will be united in the form of a higher being in order to work as one entity.

OK.....this is a direct copy-and-paste from the FAQ, right? And the FAQ explaination was commented upon by me further up. Where did this theory come from? It did NOT come from Maynard or from the band. It came from someone else, sifting through ideas, trying to explain the song.

As such, it has no more validity, and can be accepted as no more correct than any other theory, right? That's what I said earlier in this thread. Why has it been blindly accepted? Repeating the theory does in not way make it more complelling.....at least not in my eyes. Just because someone pasted it to the FAQ doesn't mean it was right to begin with, does it?

Furthermore, I find no evidence (as also stated earlier) that there are "three kinds of humans". I've been researching this for a long time. There is no scientific evidence I have been able to locate to substatiate this claim. In fact, the Tool FAQ is the ONLY place I have ever read such. If someone could substantiate this idea with some greater form of evidence, perhaps I would have to concede the point and shut up.........but so far, all I have is a reguritation of the same basic theory. Drunvalo Melchizadek aside--there is no evidence to back up what is said in this threory. It seems nothing more than blind speculation at this point.

Repeating it does not make it any more valid.

http://www.drunvalo.net/bio.html

I don't find anything concerning this guy that persuades me that he holds the answers to the enigmatic title of this song.

Black

[imatoolhed]

no its not from the FAQ... i was just throwing it out there. i'm not here to argue the point or meaning.

as far as we know the meaning of the song can seem very straight forward on what its about. but again thats only from what others have concluded as the true meaning. until maynard comes out and says this is what i wrote it about.we can only 'assume'... and what does that make?

until then its all whatevers clever to me... the song fuckin' rawks

[Black]

until maynard comes out and says this is what i wrote it about.we can only 'assume'... and what does that make?

until then its all whatevers clever to me... the song fuckin' rawks


Total agreement.

[fretforyourfigure462]

Thanks.

So.....you don't think the chromosomal interpretation is a bit of a stretch too?


I always thought it was, but it makes the most sense....and it's pretty simple..

[Black]

I always thought it was, but it makes the most sense....and it's pretty simple..

Umm.....it can't make the most sense if it is total nonsesnse, can it? The idea is neither simple nor sensible. My posts above elaborate upon how the chromosomal theory is nothing more than the metaphysical meanderings of one Drunvalo Melchizadek. There's no scientific support or biological evidence for this idea. It's just a concept dreamed up by some guy. I don't know what his intentions were for promoting such an idea, but they are clearly not rooted in reality. Go to his website and read it if you don't believe me. The guy has LOTS of far-out theories.

Humans are not going to evolve two extra chromosomes. On the rare occasions when mutations such as extra chromosomes do pop up, they are almost always lethal or devastatingly maladaptive in nature.

We already have humans with extra chromosomes, but the extras yield uniformly maladaptive traits, such as Down Syndorme and hermaphrodism (more correctly called intersexuality).

It's a cool idea, I'll grant you that. But does it make sense? Hardly. Pardon me if I search for meanings to the song other than this one. I might be way off with my theory, but I can almost guarantee the chromosomal idea is further off. My biggest objection all along has been the almost uniform acceptance of this one idea, when it was never presented as anything more than one of a large number of possible explainations. There seems to be a level of group-think going on there, and I just wanted to point that out.

Black

[Blither]

Black, you are the first person who I've ever read that has had the same interpretation of the song as I have. I've thought for a long time that 46&2 referred specifically to an additional 46 years, 2 months average life expectancy for a 30-year-old male.

The entire song is about consciously deciding to change your life for the better then setting about to do it. Then, the last line in the song is " Forty-six and two are just ahead of me". Your explanation (and mine) makes perfect sense.

[Black]

Black, you are the first person who I've ever read that has had the same interpretation of the song as I have. I've thought for a long time that 46&2 referred specifically to an additional 46 years, 2 months average life expectancy for a 30-year-old male.

The entire song is about consciously deciding to change your life for the better then setting about to do it. Then, the last line in the song is " Forty-six and two are just ahead of me". Your explanation (and mine) makes perfect sense.

Wow.......I stand stunned and amazed. I thought I was the only one. Thanks for letting me know I am not all alone. Doesn't mean I'm not crazy.....but it does mean I'm not alone, LOL!

[B@xter]

Black, you are completely right that there is no scientific backing to Jung's theory about the extra two chromosomes. Certainly there is no conceivable way an individual, made up of millions of cells could spontaneously generate 2 extra new chromosomes, and even if we as a species do pick up an extra pair somewhere, there is no reason to think it would lead to a new level of consciousness. Having said that, that does not mean that is not what they are referencing. The song is about changing your life for the better as Blither says, and Jung's theory would fit, as a new level of consciousness would in this sense be an improvement. Just because there is no scientific backing does not mean they do not believe it, or at the very least maybe using it as a metaphor. (There is also no scientific evidence of any sort of third eye, and yet Maynard is prying his open pretty emphatically...)

I do really like your take, and it seems to make at least (if not significantly more) as much sense as the Jungian thing. But my main problem is that doesnt necessarily explain the "& 2." I suppose that may have fit into the song better than just 46, but that doesnt seem to be the sort of thing they would concede just for the sake of putting it in, but I really have no idea.

[tonedeftool]

Black, you are completely right that there is no scientific backing to Jung's theory about the extra two chromosomes. Certainly there is no conceivable way an individual, made up of millions of cells could spontaneously generate 2 extra new chromosomes, and even if we as a species do pick up an extra pair somewhere, there is no reason to think it would lead to a new level of consciousness. Having said that, that does not mean that is not what they are referencing. The song is about changing your life for the better as Blither says, and Jung's theory would fit, as a new level of consciousness would in this sense be an improvement. Just because there is no scientific backing does not mean they do not believe it, or at the very least maybe using it as a metaphor. (There is also no scientific evidence of any sort of third eye, and yet Maynard is prying his open pretty emphatically...)

I do really like your take, and it seems to make at least (if not significantly more) as much sense as the Jungian thing. But my main problem is that doesnt necessarily explain the "& 2." I suppose that may have fit into the song better than just 46, but that doesnt seem to be the sort of thing they would concede just for the sake of putting it in, but I really have no idea.

Totally agree. No one is angry or bashing each other here (refreshing) so i don' t have to say this but, i think it's just the distinction between, "what tool are refrencing" and "if what tool are refrencing is true". Black, your take is totally legit and well spelled out. But, so are the chromosomal theorists, insofar as that JUST might be exactly what Maynard is referring to. we should keep in mind, Maynard doesn't have a degree in psychology, or Flower of Life or whatever. him and the rest of tool just take what they like and take to be valuable from their readings and turn them into great-fucking-songs. I think Maynard would be the first to admit that a lot of fans here are more well-read in these areas than he is. 46+2 chromosomes it may read, but 46yrs+2months you might take, eh?

(this might sound all too let's-all-just-get-along for this forum...please forgive me!)

[Ophelya]

I mostly like the Jung/chromosomal explanation because it fits in with other Tool themes. Plus, I never get the impression that he's talking about a particular event in his life... just who he is as a human.

Besides, I don't see why this song wouldn't have a psychological meaning to it when most of the others do.

[Grizznutz]

2 points... first, a great take on the song to start the thread.

Second the song to me is simply him talking about the desire to make oneself better... to break away from the cattle and become something more... to 'feel the metamorphosis.' I believe his 'shadow' is the person that he sees himself as able to become, that which he is striving for. Also I get the impression that he wants so badly he doesn't care how he gets there... if he has to relive old wounds. Fine. If he has to hope he has 2 extra chromosomes, fine too. He will 'do what it takes.'

I find the song inspiring and as encouragement to better myself, to take the challenge head on, to be willing to plow through the garbage (pain, shortcomings, ect) and achieve that next level.

Also, I think sometimes Tool tosses references to pop-culture (Jung, ect) in there just to give you guys something to talk about and perhaps read for the weekend =P

[T3rdEyeVisual]

ahh, the rumbling bass.

Good stuff all.

[ASnakeForEveryEden]

supposedly, maynard is a tortured artist type, so the whole personal issues part comes granted. he's probably just talking about evolution in terms of getting over some shit he's been going thru. the whole 46 years and 2 months idea is too random. life expectancy of a man? it seems more like u're wanting to believe that he's saying such things than that he's actually saying it.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Thanks.

So.....you don't think the chromosomal interpretation is a bit of a stretch too?

I think where that theory derived was from Bob Frissell's book "Nothing In This Book Is True, But It's Exactly The Way Things Are", although I may be wrong. And I do agree that scientifically and/or genetically speaking, there's no evidence to support this evolution as being realistically directly affected by the number of chromosomes in our DNA. HOWEVER, I do believe that it was meant more in a symbolic way, metaphorically if you will about the human evolution to a higher state of being. I myself am praying for change....

[Inner_Eulogy]

Black, you are completely right that there is no scientific backing to Jung's theory about the extra two chromosomes. .

Correction, the chromosome theory was NOT derived by Carl Jung

[felix45]

I feel almost the same Black. I dont expect anyone could evolve themselves within their own life. I dont take it the way others have.

I think this goes to the buddhist beliefs combined with carl jung's theory. Multiple lives to search for answers. To become one. 46&2 always ahead of him. Always so close to becoming one.

[]v[edusa]

I think where that theory derived was from Bob Frissell's book "Nothing In This Book Is True, But It's Exactly The Way Things Are", although I may be wrong.

You know, I thought the same as well about the chromosome thing but, if I recall, the book never really related reaching 46 and 2 after walking through your shadow. It wasn't until Drunvalos second book of the FOL that I first hear someone talking about Freud, Jung, Reich, Rolf, etc. studies on healing the emotional body and how it relates to the Merkaba and Christ consciousness. But that book came out so much later after the release of Aenima.

I think the band either got the information about the shadow and the muscle memory and how it relates to reaching 46 and 2 from Drunvalos older videos that I have seen recently that explained it nicely or from an actual FOL workshop.

Basically Drunvalo and my FOL facilitator said that if you want the full potiential of the Merkaba and to reach for christ consciousness (46 and 2) you have to face this shadow, realize that there is no good or evil, you have to heal the bad/old emotions in you muscle memory, everything is love/light, etc.

Dont you think it would have been a bit too soon to make a song about 46 and 2 if you first heard about it after the release of bob frissells book in 1994? Tool started recording aenima in september of 1995. For a topic that seems to question a lot of us on this forum on whether its all true or not wouldn't you want to take quite a bit of time to experiment with the FOL and Merkaba before you write a song about it? This is why I don't think they first heard of 46 and 2 from bobs book.

[cocoon]

I am enthralled! I am also wondering if a TOOL member could be lurking and stirring everybody up....(sheepish grin)

[trey5winds]

[QUOTE=Opinions anyone?

Thanks for your time,
Black[/QUOTE]


Good evening, Madam.

I enjoyed your interpretation, and the thought process (what I could catch) behind it. This is good mental work; perhaps if I could get my mind out of the musical aspects of it, I might be able to process something near that level.

Maynard has said in interviews that he often works on lyrics either as the music is developing or after the music is finished. My own thought on that is, perhaps the words he writes for each song aren't exclusively from his own point of view. Every singer who writes lyrics often takes material from all of his observations and interactions from other people. And since he writes lyrics for songs as the music is developing or after it's finished, then perhaps some of the lyrics are not only on behalf of others or because of others - perhaps it's on behalf of the music as well.

What if music could speak words? What would it say, and why? And what would it mean?

This, to me, is sometimes why lyricists write lyrics that sometimes even they can't (or won't) explain, and why certain phrases and lines go well with music but would sound really stupid or nonsensical when removed from that musical context. And it sounds absurd to think that music could have it's own words to say, but in my experience, music is one of the few voices of God (or, some higher intangible power, anyway) that we haven't consciously removed from our society. Why wouldn't it use words (and singers) the same way singers and/or lyricists use experience and observation - as a catalyst for another creative element?

We may be treading on dangerous ground here - perhaps this is why some holy scriptures were written the way they were: because the musicians couldn't record the right music to go along with the words, or those were the words that came out! Maybe those scriptures don't work because we don't know the tunes!

Although I am (somewhat) joking about that, I must point out that musicians were considered intellectual elites (in some cultures, anyway) in many parts of the world a couple hundred years back - there may actually be something to this line of thinking beyond considering TOOL's music. Just a thought, there.

As for my experience, I'm a musician with several years experience in writing and performing music and lyrics. That experience and some round-the-bend thinking are all that support my view on this; your own mileage may vary.

In comparing your thoughts on Maynard viewing his future-self vs. the chromosomal theory: I like the second one more, but your's is probably closer to the truth. And there's absolutely no reason why they both couldn't be true, at least in part if not in whole.

Thank you for this.

Respectfully,
Trey5Winds

[Caedo Somnus]

First post, but I had to. After reading this very different opinion I must say I agree, to a degree. Also, to some degree I feel you're a rebel without a cause Black. My personal opinion of the meaning of 46 and 2 is this:

The song is about change, overcoming, and facing yourself and anything else that stands in your way to evolve psychologically and emotionally. I think we can all agree on this. My assumption of the lyric "46 and 2 are just ahead of me" is a representation of being stuck where you are and NEEDING to overcome. Also having 46 and 2 representing time, but with the innocence of being 2 years old, and the older wiser age of 46(which is the average life expectancy of 30 year old males which he was about 30 when he wrote this). Being at this age and realising that you still need to evolve, be different, overcome can be rattling to what you were as a child and what you're capabal of becoming/want to become. That is my opinion.

Now, as far as Black claiming 46&2 being a stretch when considering it to Jung's writings, I think that is a waste of words. Just because his theories aren't facts don't mean they don't exist. Who's to say Maynard didn't know all about this and felt it was the best way to describe his feelings in this song. Just because there isn't fact, doesn't mean a theory doesn't exist. There's no proof of the boogyman, but his theory of existance my brother brought to me one night hit me pretty hard at that point in my life.

Just because it sounds rediculous doesn't mean it's not something Maynard didn't take to heart.

But I agree, this song is definetaly up for opinion fights. =P

[SecondSun]

Any of the theories on this could be the "real" meaning. It's all about opinion. Whatever makes sense to you is what the song is about. Of course, the song probably does have a certain meaning to the actual band because they wrote it, but the point isn't really to find out exactly what the song means to them (I say "them" instead of "Maynard" because they're a band and they write their music together as a group...which is the way music should always be written). Even if that were the point, nobody knows exactly what the band is thinking, and you shouldn't argue and argue and expect people to have the same opinion as you do. I believe that's also why this forum is called "Opinion."

I think Black's theory and the chromosome theory are both completely logical (as song meanings). Personally, I believe both of them, since they both talk about the same kinds of things (evolution, improvement, change, overcoming, etc.). It's just that I think Black posted this expecting everyone to agree with her (despite what she said in the first bit of her post).

Black kinda does have a point, though, about there not being much scientific proof of the 46&2 chromosome theory. It's probably just being used in the song as a metaphor for change and overcoming. Just my opinion.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Black, you are the first person who I've ever read that has had the same interpretation of the song as I have. I've thought for a long time that 46&2 referred specifically to an additional 46 years, 2 months average life expectancy for a 30-year-old male.

The entire song is about consciously deciding to change your life for the better then setting about to do it. Then, the last line in the song is " Forty-six and two are just ahead of me". Your explanation (and mine) makes perfect sense.

I agree that sounds plausible....perhaps he's describing in the song a rebirth of one's inner self growing after a hardship and personal growth. It's well known that one's ability to grow in times of hardship makes them a stronger person as well as everyday life experiences make you who you are. Perhaps he felt at that time that he had evolved to a certain point and now has a new beginning at age 30 with 46 years and 2 months to go....just another idea

[Black]

I am enthralled! I am also wondering if a TOOL member could be lurking and stirring everybody up....(sheepish grin)

Are you insinuating I may be a member of the band???

To all others, thank you kindly for your thoughts, those that agree, those that disagree, and those that turn everything on its ear to have a better look. That's what it's all about. I appreciate all of it.

I have been "away" for a while. I am amazed that this thread is still alive. Just wanted to thank you all. See you in St. Paul.............

[Caedo Somnus]

I have been "away" for a while. I am amazed that this thread is still alive. Just wanted to thank you all. See you in St. Paul.............


See you down in Arizona Bay

=P

[thomasknight]

Looking at evidence for either viewpoint, I would have to conclude that the chromosome explanation is most likely to be what 46 + 2 is refering to. Evolution of the mind is a constant theme through Tool's music, and obtaining extra chromosomes suggests this, even if the biology is untrue. Also, he has never changed the line in concert as far as I'm aware. Throughout the 2001 tour I believe he always sang 46, not 41, as he may have been inclined to do. I can't justify to myself, thinking it is about his age rather than the chromosome theory.

Although maybe he wrote it through the 95/96 NBA season when the Bulls were 45-2?

[Caedo Somnus]

Although maybe he wrote it through the 95/96 NBA season when the Bulls were 45-2?

Too.... many... theories.....

*head explode*

[Baking Soda]

I saw them in concert like 2 months ago. During this song if you watch the visuals Double helixs pop all over it and the humanoid creature grows wings. Now i don't know if MJK was planing on growing wings when he turned 46 years and 2 months, but i doubt it.

[miketh74]

Are you insinuating I may be a member of the band???

To all others, thank you kindly for your thoughts, those that agree, those that disagree, and those that turn everything on its ear to have a better look. That's what it's all about. I appreciate all of it.

I have been "away" for a while. I am amazed that this thread is still alive. Just wanted to thank you all. See you in St. Paul.............

I have to commend you on one of the greatest threads on this site!! I really don't think we can add anything more to this. It's all about the trial and error of life and getting through it. Saw them on 6/22 in STL. Hearing this song was a true cleansing of the soul. Hope you had fun in St. Paul!!!

[Black]

I have to commend you on one of the greatest threads on this site!! I really don't think we can add anything more to this. It's all about the trial and error of life and getting through it. Saw them on 6/22 in STL. Hearing this song was a true cleansing of the soul. Hope you had fun in St. Paul!!!

Thank you for your kind words. The St Paul concert was a blast. I'm glad you enjoyed in STL. I agree with you that hearing the song in concert is a profound experience. It was one of the highlighs of the concert for me.

And Baking Soda (above) is correct. I did indeed notice the visual component of the song included some representations of double helixes. They have used different visuals at some of the other concerts I have been to though.......so obviously there are still many possible interpretations, which is probably what the band was after to begin with. This song seems to resonate deeply with most Tool fans. It certainly does with me. That is the mark of a true and lasting work of art.

[miketh74]

Thank you for your kind words. The St Paul concert was a blast. I'm glad you enjoyed in STL. I agree with you that hearing the song in concert is a profound experience. It was one of the highlighs of the concert for me.

And Baking Soda (above) is correct. I did indeed notice the visual component of the song included some representations of double helixes. They have used different visuals at some of the other concerts I have been to though.......so obviously there are still many possible interpretations, which is probably what the band was after to begin with. This song seems to resonate deeply with most Tool fans. It certainly does with me. That is the mark of a true and lasting work of art.

Black...you should be posted as a very deep thinker. You are obviously very intelligent and again....if anyone can ellaborate further on your interpretation, I'd be very surprised.

[MORNING_GLORY]

To me, the idea that this song is about age expectancy seems depressing and kind of takes away from the great personal advancement being conveyed. I'm sure there are people out there who actually believe they'll grow two more chromosomes, but that shouldn't take away from the integrity of the metaphor.

Tool has always seemed like a band that alludes to things that are timeless, ideas that have been around as long as we can remember (barely), and then taking it to the next level and twisting it to their perspective.

46 & 2 has been one of the songs they play at 99% (if not 100%) of their concerts since ænima, I can't imagine they would invest so much rock-time in a song that was simply about a rough time. They have other songs for that, and they don't play them at every concert. Don't you think Maynard would get over it after 10 or so years?

And although there is no scientific evidence to prove that 2 more chromosomes is possible (that we know of yet), I didn't think Tool were scientists trying to claim it so.

But, just an opinion.

[miketh74]

To me, the idea that this song is about age expectancy seems depressing and kind of takes away from the great personal advancement being conveyed. I'm sure there are people out there who actually believe they'll grow two more chromosomes, but that shouldn't take away from the integrity of the metaphor.

Tool has always seemed like a band that alludes to things that are timeless, ideas that have been around as long as we can remember (barely), and then taking it to the next level and twisting it to their perspective.

46 & 2 has been one of the songs they play at 99% (if not 100%) of their concerts since ænima, I can't imagine they would invest so much rock-time in a song that was simply about a rough time. They have other songs for that, and they don't play them at every concert. Don't you think Maynard would get over it after 10 or so years?

And although there is no scientific evidence to prove that 2 more chromosomes is possible (that we know of yet), I didn't think Tool were scientists trying to claim it so.

But, just an opinion.
Point well taken. I wouldn't say it's all about getting through bad times, but it is part of life to get over obstacles. Therefore, it is how we grow and evolve that's only a small part of what he's saying. There is definitely the scientific aspect that speaks louder in the song, so I'm sure to Maynard, he is still evolving which I guess compells him to perform 46&2 at every concert. Plus they openly admit they are progressively getting better at their music all the time, so there's a lot Maynard could be singing about.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Point well taken. I wouldn't say it's all about getting through bad times, but it is part of life to get over obstacles. Therefore, it is how we grow and evolve that's only a small part of what he's saying. There is definitely the scientific aspect that speaks louder in the song, so I'm sure to Maynard, he is still evolving which I guess compells him to perform 46&2 at every concert. Plus they openly admit they are progressively getting better at their music all the time, so there's a lot Maynard could be singing about.

Been awhile since I drifted to this post, anyway - I agree with everything being said here...it's easy enough to sum up in two words 'personal growth". It's as simple as that. Maynard is just damn good at layering lyrics and incorporating some interesting references within i.e. Carl Jung's work and Drunvalo's theories. It doesn't necessarily mean that we will truly gain an additional 2 chromosomes, I think it's simply more of a metaphor for gaining an enlightenment through your own soul searching and personal growth as an individual. The song H. is almost the same thing except it's him dealing with personal growth through the birth of his son.

[Blither]

Hi all. :)

As the first to post agreement to Black's idea, it's been awhile since I've been here but I wanted to add to what's been said so far.

I've changed my view on the meaning of this song.

Jung's theory is an entirely plausible one, although I've never read that book by Bob Frisell. Of the two, it's the one with the more precise explanation, listing in concrete terms the exact meaning of the numbers "46" and "2".

Black's theory (and mine) also seems perfectly valid, as well. 30 years plus 46 years and 2 months would be about right for an average American male's life expectancy. Both theories fit in well with the concept of change, of growth, of making your life and your personal being better to benefit the remaining years you have left on this earth.

Since I first wrote that post though, I've noticed something that Maynard does very often in Tool songs; he has an avid propensity for double entendres. I haven't compiled a list yet, but I've seen it over and over again - lyrics and even album names that can be taken either of two ways or meant to mean two things at once. Alternately, he'll write a line of lyric that uses two quotes or sayings merged together to form some new, third meaning, or none at all.

With that in mind, I now think that it's very likely that MJK had BOTH explanations in mind as he wrote the song. It would fit in perfectly with his writing style.

Anyway, tell me what you think... could I be on to something here?

[Inner_Eulogy]

Anyway, tell me what you think... could I be on to something here?

You could be on to the fact that he writes lyrics layered with more than one meaning. No offense, but isn't that exactly what everybody's been saying since they started?

[Blither]

I didn't really come away with that from this thread. It just seemed like everyone was mainly fixated on it having to mean one thing or the other, and I wanted to openly suggest that it could in fact be both, since that would be a very Maynard thing to do.

Anyway, no offense taken... I'll go back and re-read the thread. If anyone had actually talked about the possibility of both meanings intended, I must have missed it.

[miketh74]

Anyway, no offense taken... I'll go back and re-read the thread. If anyone had actually talked about the possibility of both meanings intended, I must have missed it.[/QUOTE]

I had mentioned that when talking about the scientific aspect, (the life expectancy), Maynard put more emphasis on the personal growth meaning than the actual life expectancy, but one could argue both parts depending what stands out more to that person listening.

That's one of the best qualities of this song, other than the musical, which is simply awesome.

[guitarguru85]

It is common for Maynard to use a scientific/philosophical theory or some abstract image or idea as a metaphor or symbol of what he is trying to communicate through the song. I think that nearly everyone on this thread agrees that the song is about personal growth and achieving a higher level of happiness, self-actualization, enlightment, etc. I think that he is simply using the theories of Jung and "the 46&2 guy" (forgot his name, and don't care because his science is shoddy) as a vehicle to express his message about personal growth.

[TaraChandler]

I always thought that 46&2 was about going to the next level and finding something better and getting over the hard parts in life...but never really understood the 46&2 part. So I raped google for the answer and it really depends what kinda of mood I'm in, if I want to really think about the meaning, I can, but, usualy I just listen without putting meaning to it.

[saintjoe]

OK.....this is a direct copy-and-paste from the FAQ, right? And the FAQ explaination was commented upon by me further up. Where did this theory come from? It did NOT come from Maynard or from the band. It came from someone else, sifting through ideas, trying to explain the song.

As such, it has no more validity, and can be accepted as no more correct than any other theory, right? That's what I said earlier in this thread. Why has it been blindly accepted? Repeating the theory does in not way make it more complelling.....at least not in my eyes. Just because someone pasted it to the FAQ doesn't mean it was right to begin with, does it?

Furthermore, I find no evidence (as also stated earlier) that there are "three kinds of humans". I've been researching this for a long time. There is no scientific evidence I have been able to locate to substatiate this claim. In fact, the Tool FAQ is the ONLY place I have ever read such. If someone could substantiate this idea with some greater form of evidence, perhaps I would have to concede the point and shut up.........but so far, all I have is a reguritation of the same basic theory. Drunvalo Melchizadek aside--there is no evidence to back up what is said in this threory. It seems nothing more than blind speculation at this point.

Repeating it does not make it any more valid.

http://www.drunvalo.net/bio.html

I don't find anything concerning this guy that persuades me that he holds the answers to the enigmatic title of this song.

Black
wow, you say you hate "internet arguing"but you are sure quick to it which disgusts me

[K1DA]

In this song Tool is temporarily taking the "belief" of the 46 & 2 "theory" just like in several songs on the new album they do the same thing with Christianity. Not much in a tool song is literal, you should know that by now ;) I do think this song has much more literality(?) than most and your on the right track regarding the other stuff though. In TOOL's live concerts from the 10,000 days tour there are several images clearly relating to evolution displayed during 46 & 2.

[blake_bergeron]

i agree with K1DA and all others with the chromosome theory... it's both i think... some of the most dominate lyrics in the song are "in my shadow, my shadow, change is coming through my shadow"... so it makes me think "ok... the shadow" is maynard referring to the decrease in light that is cast due to our physical bodies being between the light and whatever the shadow is cast on? maybe... but when i hear the force in his voice when he says "shadow" continuously i think of the shadow compartment of the psyche... that little part of the mind that holds all of our dirtiest secrets... this is the part of the mind that we must face and "step through" and "come out the other side" in order to reach true enlightenment... so then you throw in the chromosome theory in there... well that whole thing, as true as it sounds and may be, is very tangible... a little too tangible for the deep thinking realms of tool... because we can't tangibly manifest two extra chromosomes and evolve into whatever is next... i think it's about getting through all the dirtiness of your mind... all the hate, greed, malice, jealousy, etc... get through all of that... see it... own it... take responsibility for it... pass through it...

"See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
Forty six and two are just ahead of me."

by saying step "into" the shadow i think relates to dealing with all of the negatives in your past and present... you were and presently are in a state of 46-ness... as is every physical body on earth... but to come out on the other side or transform into 48-ness(46&2) one must pass through the shadow... there is no way around it... it's a straight path...

i think maynard has come to grips with what is going on... mentally... in the first two albums he's obviously angry and venting all of the things that have angered him in the past... so one could break down the albums according to the parts of the psyche... so there is the persona, ego, anima(or shadow), self(center)...(i think that's right... correct me if i'm wrong) so, opiate is the persona... undertow is ego... aenima is anima(or shadow)that one is very literal don't you think??? lateralus and 10000 days are at the self(or center)...

i always found lateralus very mechanical and safe... not to demean the music in any way(reflection is my favorite song) i just mean that every thing is very precise like it's a lesson just learned and fresh in the bands mind... everything is dead on... almost like they were reborn... and 10000 days is a continuation of that... after all, the last song of 10000 days is viginti tres... i read somewhere that that is latin for 23... well it's not the 23 song on the album... unless you put the two albums(lateralus and 10000 days) together... which in that case there are 24 songs... so viginti tres is the 24th song... but called 23? maybe it's an equation... all songs leading up to it are 23 songs... so maybe it's not saying it's the 23rd of something, but rather that it is the end of an equation where 23 is the conclusive answer??? maybe...

anyway i've rambled for too long... any comments are welcome...

[Inner_Eulogy]

i agree with K1DA and all others with the chromosome theory... it's both i think... some of the most dominate lyrics in the song are "in my shadow, my shadow, change is coming through my shadow"... so it makes me think "ok... the shadow" is maynard referring to the decrease in light that is cast due to our physical bodies being between the light and whatever the shadow is cast on? maybe... but when i hear the force in his voice when he says "shadow" continuously i think of the shadow compartment of the psyche... that little part of the mind that holds all of our dirtiest secrets... this is the part of the mind that we must face and "step through" and "come out the other side" in order to reach true enlightenment... so then you throw in the chromosome theory in there... well that whole thing, as true as it sounds and may be, is very tangible... a little too tangible for the deep thinking realms of tool... because we can't tangibly manifest two extra chromosomes and evolve into whatever is next... i think it's about getting through all the dirtiness of your mind... all the hate, greed, malice, jealousy, etc... get through all of that... see it... own it... take responsibility for it... pass through it...

"See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
Forty six and two are just ahead of me."

by saying step "into" the shadow i think relates to dealing with all of the negatives in your past and present... you were and presently are in a state of 46-ness... as is every physical body on earth... but to come out on the other side or transform into 48-ness(46&2) one must pass through the shadow... there is no way around it... it's a straight path...

i think maynard has come to grips with what is going on... mentally... in the first two albums he's obviously angry and venting all of the things that have angered him in the past... so one could break down the albums according to the parts of the psyche... so there is the persona, ego, anima(or shadow), self(center)...(i think that's right... correct me if i'm wrong) so, opiate is the persona... undertow is ego... aenima is anima(or shadow)that one is very literal don't you think??? lateralus and 10000 days are at the self(or center)...

i always found lateralus very mechanical and safe... not to demean the music in any way(reflection is my favorite song) i just mean that every thing is very precise like it's a lesson just learned and fresh in the bands mind... everything is dead on... almost like they were reborn... and 10000 days is a continuation of that... after all, the last song of 10000 days is viginti tres... i read somewhere that that is latin for 23... well it's not the 23 song on the album... unless you put the two albums(lateralus and 10000 days) together... which in that case there are 24 songs... so viginti tres is the 24th song... but called 23? maybe it's an equation... all songs leading up to it are 23 songs... so maybe it's not saying it's the 23rd of something, but rather that it is the end of an equation where 23 is the conclusive answer??? maybe...

anyway i've rambled for too long... any comments are welcome...

Thanks for sharing all this vast information which we've all been meticulously discussing for years already. You're a light reflection of information but, I'll have to tell ya'..yours is quite dim.

[blake_bergeron]

no reason to refer to me as dim... sorry if i'm not a vehement level 10... so i haven't gone back and read the past 6 years of posts as to not repeat anything... didn't mean to offend thee... i'm new to the forum, obviously, and it's pretty shitty of you to bash me because of it... i appreciate the acknowledgment of having similar thoughts... but don't call it dim... and isn't that what everyone is doing here? isn't that the point of this??? to present, discuss, agree and disagree with each other... all i'm doing is giving my feedback to the song... so what if it's already been said... that shouldn't bother you...and if it does, that's your problem... don't try and seem superior using maynards lyrics... "You're a light reflection of information but"... who says that in normal conversation??? no one... or someone plagiarizing... trying to sound more intelligent than they actually are... now look... i've gone and increased the size of the snowball... oh well... let's let it roll if we must...(you can use that as ammo if you would like... i'm sure you will)

[Inner_Eulogy]

no reason to refer to me as dim... sorry if i'm not a vehement level 10... so i haven't gone back and read the past 6 years of posts as to not repeat anything... didn't mean to offend thee... i'm new to the forum, obviously, and it's pretty shitty of you to bash me because of it... i appreciate the acknowledgment of having similar thoughts... but don't call it dim... and isn't that what everyone is doing here? isn't that the point of this??? to present, discuss, agree and disagree with each other... all i'm doing is giving my feedback to the song... so what if it's already been said... that shouldn't bother you...and if it does, that's your problem... don't try and seem superior using maynards lyrics... "You're a light reflection of information but"... who says that in normal conversation??? no one... or someone plagiarizing... trying to sound more intelligent than they actually are... now look... i've gone and increased the size of the snowball... oh well... let's let it roll if we must...(you can use that as ammo if you would like... i'm sure you will)

..lmao, or perhaps you misunderstood what my "dim" comment meant. I meant it metaphorically as in the farther you are from a light source, the dimmer it is to the naked eye. Not dim as in dumb, just that you're way behind on the subject matter. Wasn't necessarily meant as a deragatory statement. And just FYI, I hardly ever quote lyrics, I find it rather lame myself unless I deem it fits that conversation. Plagiarism? Nah, just paying tribute...I guess.

[blake_bergeron]

ok... cool... off of this subject for a minute... since you have been around for a long time and are familiar with the forum... i have a question for you... not about 46&2 but about schism... i was looking through the posts and found nothing about schism being a clue for rearranging the order of the songs on lateralus... i heard about this quite a while ago and am surprised it's not mentioned anywhere there... of course i could be overlooking it... i have a tendency to skim... anyway, i'd love to know if it's been discussed here and get in on it and if it hasn't, why??? peace, man...

[○dissonance○]

This is an interesting thread, I never thought of Forty-Six & 2 in that way before.

Schism being a clue for rearranging the order of songs? Shit, I thought it was about Tetris, lol (There are threads about that!). Just joking...but seriously, you should make a thread in the proper section about that. I doubt that it's true though.

[blake_bergeron]

ok so i went ahead and made a thread about it before searching to see if others had talked about it before... so i rambled on for paragraphs and paragraphs... and then searched it... yeah not too smart... oh well, at least i know about it now and what others know... i guess that's good... for me...

[Inner_Eulogy]

ok... cool... off of this subject for a minute... since you have been around for a long time and are familiar with the forum... i have a question for you... not about 46&2 but about schism... i was looking through the posts and found nothing about schism being a clue for rearranging the order of the songs on lateralus... i heard about this quite a while ago and am surprised it's not mentioned anywhere there... of course i could be overlooking it... i have a tendency to skim... anyway, i'd love to know if it's been discussed here and get in on it and if it hasn't, why??? peace, man...

It's the first I've heard of the "revised" track order being within Schism. You can read more about it here--> http://www.bofe.org/overthinking.htm

It is pretty cool to do but depending on your media player, you will need to be able to edit the silence in between the songs in order for it to really work the right way.

[ethanthedrummist]

Black, you may be the smartest player around. It's refreshing to read a take from someone who appreciates science as much as I do, and does away with all the nonsensical bs.

I've also felt the "extra 2 chromosomes = higher consciousness" take to be INCREDIBLY weak. And it for sure sounds like something some obscure tool fan pulled out of their ass and ran with. But, I don't want to be too quick to accept the age thing either. It just doesn't seem like... idk. It's not a bad idea per se, but I can't see it being a strong enough idea for Maynard to write a song about it.

One thing I always found interesting is the way the title is stylized. "46" is written in alphabetical grapheme, the 2 is written numerically, and the "and" is an ampersand. In the context of the chromosomal hypothesis, 46 is written that way to distinguish itself from the 2 that are ahead of him. That's pretty much as far as I can take it though. Just playing devil's advocate.

Ok. I'm moving on to pepper my wisdom dandruff upon the flea peons I call my friends.