"Silence Legion" = Silence Demon?

[opiated]

From the Wikipedia page on Stephen King's Storm of the Century: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm of the Century)

While retrieving items from his home later in the film, Michael Anderson spells out the name 'Linoge' and tells one of the villagers the Biblical account of Jesus casting a demon out of an afflicted man and into a herd of swine. He recounts that before the swine drown, Jesus asks the demon to identify itself and it answers "Our name is Legion, for we are many." While Anderson explains this, he re-arranges the name 'Linoge' to spell 'Legion'.

From the Wikipedia page on "Legion (demon):" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//Legion (demon))

Legion, also known as the Gadarene demon, or is translated as Lots, is a demon found in the Christian Bible in Mark 5:9 and Luke 8:30. A parallel version of the story can be found in Matthew 8:28-34, but this version does not contain the name "Legion" and tells of two men, not just one, possessed by a multitude of demons. In the story, Jesus travelled to "the country of the Gadarenes" (Gergesenes in Matthew) and met a man possessed by an evil spirit, which spoke to Jesus in a conversation. The most commonly quoted version is found in Mark 5:9:

And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. (KJV)

Another version of the quote is in Luke 8:30:

And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. (KJV)

The demons that composed Legion were aware of the tremendous power of Jesus, and begged to be spared from being tossed back into the bottomless pit of hell. Jesus instead cast the demons out of the man and, granting their request, allowed them to dwell in a herd of pigs. The pigs then drowned themselves in the Sea of Galilee.

John Dominic Crossan believes the story may be considered a parable of anti-Roman resistance. This would explain why the Gospels variously situate the story in Gadara, Gerasa and Gergesa: All three are disguises for Caesarea, the location of the actual events behind the story. Even if the story is taken to be historically factual, some of the details may be exaggerated. For example, pigs are excellent swimmers, and the ones who jumped into the lake may well have survived. (See Umm Qais).

David Icke and Joseph Atwill in his book Caesar's Messiah, believes that the story is a representation of Titus Vespasianus, as the messiah (see also Josephus' Jewish Wars 6.5.4), and the invading Roman Legions in dealing with the Zealots and their insurrection in Caesarea.


From the Wikipedia page on "My Name is Legion:" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_name_is_Legion)

My name is Legion" is a quotation from the Gospel according to Mark. In Chapter 5, we are told that Jesus and his disciples encounter a man possessed by a multitude of demons. On seeing Jesus approaching, the afflicted man "ran and worshipped him, And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many "(Mark 5:6-9).

NOTE: Not an interpretation of the song, just something to think about concerning something within the context of the lyrics. Thanks.

[BlanketEffect]

Well... absolutely.

Legion is the name of a famous demon. The devil and his had Maynard down...

Silence, Legion - Save your poison...

Of course it's about the demon. Or at least the metaphor of said demon.

[Salvatorin]

hwhwat? I thought it was "SILEENCE LEECH AND SAY YOUR POSION!" oh wait that doesn't make any sence cuz hes saying silence, then say your...eheh...ok i'll be quiet..

[maggie72]

hwhwat? I thought it was "SILEENCE LEECH AND SAY YOUR POSION!" oh wait that doesn't make any sence cuz hes saying silence, then say your...eheh...ok i'll be quiet..


how about "Silence Leech, and save your poison,
Silence Leech, and stay out of my wayyyy!

[BlanketEffect]

Yeah, 'leech and' makes phonetic sense, too. But 'Legion' fits the mood/imagery of the song far better, methinks.

[maggie72]

Click Here (http://media.putfile.com/Jambi-at-the-end) to listen to the last part of the song. Maybe the first line could be legion, but clearly, the second line is "silence leech and stay out of my way!"

[Inner_Eulogy]

Yeah, 'leech and' makes phonetic sense, too. But 'Legion' fits the mood/imagery of the song far better, methinks.

Could go either way...I think 'leech and' makes sense too as far as a metaphor for the ones sucking him dry (think Ticks and Leeches, not necessarily the fans or lawyers though...just in general). If I am to be correct in thinking that the song is in some form pertaining to his son, than leech is just as relevant in terms of thought as legion. He's saying shutup you, you're just a drain on my life, a pain in my ass and unwanted stress.

[opiated]

Sort of interesting how Storm of the Century made me think of the connection here. Also I find it interesting that Storm of the Century and "Jambi" both have to do with subject matter concerning parenthood and what you would do to protect your child from trauma or being removed from your life by any means required and how that can be a burden (sounds like "Pushit"). I doubt that that is the main thought behind the song (to me, it's more broad than parenthood -- it discusses loved ones and, when they die or are removed from your life, the human want to have that person back . . . but that's just my own meaning for the song -- but I do think it's discussed.)

And "Silence Legion" make sense when you place within the context of the song. It mentions the Devil, so why not just go full-nelson and throw in a major Biblical demon figure while you're at it?

[chaotic_confusion]

Click Here (http://media.putfile.com/Jambi-at-the-end) to listen to the last part of the song. Maybe the first line could be legion, but clearly, the second line is "silence leech and stay out of my way!"

i have really expensive headphones, and by using them i think that the the first line sounds more like "leech" than the second. however i am personally siding with Legion.

[Inner_Eulogy]

i have really expensive headphones, and by using them i think that the the first line sounds more like "leech" than the second. however i am personally siding with Legion.

<shrug>

[chaotic_confusion]

yeah... i think it's somewhat irrelevant... but i dunno, be it the topic was biblical my interest was peaked, i like to study religon.

[BlanketEffect]

Could go either way...I think 'leech and' makes sense too as far as a metaphor for the ones sucking him dry (think Ticks and Leeches, not necessarily the fans or lawyers though...just in general). If I am to be correct in thinking that the song is in some form pertaining to his son, than leech is just as relevant in terms of thought as legion. He's saying shutup you, you're just a drain on my life, a pain in my ass and unwanted stress.

Given the nature of the song and the other imagery and such...

I do not think he would ever refer to Devo as a leech. In any sense of the word. Simple as that.

But perhaps that's not what you mean and in that case, I would be inclined to agree with you. Still, I think it's Legion.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Given the nature of the song and the other imagery and such...

I do not think he would ever refer to Devo as a leech. In any sense of the word. Simple as that.

But perhaps that's not what you mean and in that case, I would be inclined to agree with you. Still, I think it's Legion.

Where on earth did you get the idea that he was referring to Devo as the 'leech' or even 'legion' at that matter? I surely didn't say anything that even remotely suggested that Devo was either the leech or legion.

[BlanketEffect]

Could go either way...I think 'leech and' makes sense too as far as a metaphor for the ones sucking him dry (think Ticks and Leeches, not necessarily the fans or lawyers though...just in general). If I am to be correct in thinking that the song is in some form pertaining to his son, than leech is just as relevant in terms of thought as legion. He's saying shutup you, you're just a drain on my life, a pain in my ass and unwanted stress.

The 'drain on my life' part. That's where I thought you were possibly referring to Devo as the leech. Then I realized that you were probably implying fans/lawyers/whoever.

[Alex in Chains]

Um . . . How about "silently just save your poison"?

[opiated]

Um . . . How about "silently just save your poison"?

Good point. However, I don't hear that.

[Alex in Chains]

You mean you really think he's saying "silence legion"?

[BlanketEffect]

You mean you really think he's saying "silence legion"?

Yup

And, by the way, when the word 'just' is not necessary, such as in 'Silently just save your poison' - could be written as 'silently save your poison' - anyway, when you use 'just' and it isn't necessary, it's considered very poor composition. Good writers don't use the word 'just' when it isn't necessary. I'm pretty sure Maynard is a 'good writer'

'Just' is an enhancer, and in 'silently save your poison' there's nothing that needs to be enhanced.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Um . . . How about "silently just save your poison"?

I don't hear that at all either and simply put...it makes no logical sense

[+++++Darth+++++]

Click Here (http://media.putfile.com/Jambi-at-the-end) to listen to the last part of the song. Maybe the first line could be legion, but clearly, the second line is "silence leech and stay out of my way!"


Nice link Maggie. It's definitly "leech".

[maggie72]

Nice link Maggie. It's definitly "leech".

Anytime......You're kinda cute Darth ;)

[hobblegobble]

hahahahahaha

[maggie72]

Don't be jealous Hobble. Oh and by the way I finally took that shit and pulled the stick out of my ass. I'm going to be Darth's Maggiepoo from now on.

[+++++Darth+++++]

thanks magdalena. That's a really sexy leg. Do you mind if I give it a pinch?

[hobblegobble]

don't think so Maggiemeister/poo Darth can suck a fat one. First of all, I came up with the name, so he can come up with something himself. IT'S MINE!

[+++++Darth+++++]

what happen?

[hobblegobble]

YOU DID!

[maggie72]

My leg is raised for pinching, pinch away!

I'm Darth's Maggiepoo 4 ever!

[hobblegobble]

ew...

[hobblegobble]

whateva..I don't swing that way anyway...psssshh...

[+++++Darth+++++]

My leg is raised for pinching, pinch away!

I'm Darth's Maggiepoo 4 ever!


Thanks Maggie.

Hey, who's this hobblegobble guy?

Is he your 16 year old neighbor or something?

[maggie72]

Thanks Maggie.

Hey, who's this hobblegobble guy?

Is he your 16 year old neighbor or something?


HAHAHAHAHAHA

I love Darth

[opiated]

And I love a topic that can stay on fucking track.

[hobblegobble]

haha...come on guys...lets be serious and stay on track and overanalyze shit a little more...geez...what are you thinking??!!!??? Tool fans can't have normal conversations...we have to talk about TOOL...THAT'S IT!!!!

[PShepherd11]

And I love a topic that can stay on fucking track.

Exactly...WTF? Every time this Hobblegobble guy shows up, the whole thread goes to hell.

[PShepherd11]

haha...come on guys...lets be serious and stay on track and overanalyze shit a little more...geez...what are you thinking??!!!??? Tool fans can't have normal conversations...we have to talk about TOOL...THAT'S IT!!!!

There are other forums, on this very site I might add, that have other topics. This one is for discussing albums, however.

[maggie72]

All it takes is one person to say one thing and wham the whole point of the thread is gone. I think this one got lost when someone was confused about whether or not he was saying Leech or Legion. Opiated obviously took some time and thought before he created this post so lets try to get it back on track.

Maggiepoo out.

[maggie72]

Exactly...WTF? Every time this Hobblegobble guy shows up, the whole thread goes to hell.

LOL you're right, and I'm just as guilty of it here too.

[hobblegobble]

Yeah and i'm here to stay...even if I do make an opinion about a song someone ends up either arguing with me or saying my opinion is not "right" or that I don't "listen to the music" I just "hear it" or something...you guys are all assmunchers....what's the point of posting my opinion about a god damn song when it always causes an argument here...why? because everyone here thinks they are smarter than everyone else and believe they have something to prove...that's why....so i'm gonna piss you guys off the same way you self righteous bastards piss me off...

[hobblegobble]

by the way I didn't start it Maggie and Darth Vader did...please read above for further reference...

[Inner_Eulogy]

haha...come on guys...lets be serious and stay on track and overanalyze shit a little more...geez...what are you thinking??!!!??? Tool fans can't have normal conversations...we have to talk about TOOL...THAT'S IT!!!!

So download AIM or Yahoo messenger for your bullshit brainless conversations about absolutely nothing...

[PShepherd11]

Hobblegobble: It's ok to post your opinion about a song and have people tell you you're wrong. Who said they're right either? Just reading different opinions makes you think from another view point. Don't take it so personally and get pissed off about that. Don't be vengeful and post irrelevant things to piss off others either. Some people here really do choose to read certain threads because of the subject; therefore, it can get annoying when you think the thread will be about something specific and it's not.

[maggie72]

"even if I do make an opinion about a song someone ends up either arguing with me or saying my opinion is not "right" or that I don't "listen to the music" I just "hear it" or something"-as quoted by Hobblegobble

Weren't you the one who condemned my opinion on quite a few things I said and now you're whining about the very same thing?

Reference-"Yeah cause you know him like a freaking brother right?"

Hypocrite.

[maggie72]

by the way I didn't start it Maggie and Darth Vader did...please read above for further reference...

Atleast I had the balls to admit it.

[hobblegobble]

okay guys...i'm going to be serious now..so serious..no more "brainless" talk...watch...you're going to see a big change in the weather...

[opiated]

All it takes is one person to say one thing and wham the whole point of the thread is gone. I think this one got lost when someone was confused about whether or not he was saying Leech or Legion. Opiated obviously took some time and thought before he created this post so lets try to get it back on track.

Maggiepoo out.

Thanks, Maggie. (And PShepard, too.) :)

[Alex in Chains]

And, by the way, when the word 'just' is not necessary, such as in 'Silently just save your poison' - could be written as 'silently save your poison' - anyway, when you use 'just' and it isn't necessary, it's considered very poor composition. Good writers don't use the word 'just' when it isn't necessary. I'm pretty sure Maynard is a 'good writer'

I have to disagree. I think he's a good lyricist, but I would hardly hire him to teach an English class. Lyrics "submitted by Maynard" (though I don't know for sure who types them) always seem to have spelling, punctuation, and grammatical errors, and I don't think he's so stylish (in the literary sense) that he would avoid using "just" if it were superfluous. Additionally, the man has poetic license AND a meter to fill. You could take nearly any Tool song and find scads of unnecessary words. So I don't buy it. That "just" is unnecessary is a pretty flimsy argument when you're saying that the line is something as nonsensical as "silence legion" or "silence, Legion."

I'd maybe be willing to make a wager on "silently just" and "damn my eyes," as well as that line in "Right in Two" which is so clearly "picture of impatience and reason."

[Underalus]

I'm pretty sure he's saying "silence legion, save your PRAISE and silently just stay out of my way".

[BlanketEffect]

So I don't buy it. That "just" is unnecessary is a pretty flimsy argument when you're saying that the line is something as nonsensical as "silence legion" or "silence, Legion."

Well. I don't think saying "Silence, Legion! Save your poison. Silence, Legion! Stay out of my way" - especially after setting the stage with the the talk of the devil and worldly desires and such - is nonsensical. Maybe the "Legion" reference still hasn't lit the bulb yet?

[Alex in Chains]

Well. I don't think saying "Silence, Legion! Save your poison. Silence, Legion! Stay out of my way" - especially after setting the stage with the the talk of the devil and worldly desires and such - is nonsensical. Maybe the "Legion" reference still hasn't lit the bulb yet?

Oh, no. I get it. It's lit the bulb. I just don't think that's the line. It's just kind of . . . lame. Kind of like the "compromise our fulcrum" thing. I think that's rather shitty lyricism in both cases, and I really hope that the official lyrics don't present those as the real lines. I'll be disappointed if they do, although Maynard's lyrics have been a bit weak a few times in the past (see also: "Swamp Song," "The Grudge," and "Hush"). All these lines are open to debate, but I'm really surprised the consensus seems to be that "silence, Legion" is the real deal.

[BlanketEffect]

Yeah, I had a period when I felt it was 'Silently just (or silence, leech! - whatever') but have since come to really feel that the 'Silence, Legion!' idea sums up the idea behind the song much better than any form of the 'silently just' ideas. In all cases.

And atop that there is that I actually hear 'Silence, Legion! Save your poison' makes it all the more tempting for me to give it my stamp of acceptance.

[BlanketEffect]

You could almost take it as something like this, though this is a longshot type of idea I just randomly had.

It could be that the set up section for this line is talking about religious tolerance and Maynard's conception that he no longer needs to seek to defame/destroy another religion. (Breathe in union, pray in union) The 'Silence, Legion!' line would be like telling the devil to leave you alone, you're no longer his tool to destroy Christianity.

Yeah, I know, it's not a real meaning, or whatever, maybe it is, but I think it's certainly another possible way in which to view an already remarkable song... given the context of the album as a whole.

[bassmaster]

how about "Silence Leech, and save your poison,
Silence Leech, and stay out of my wayyyy!
I think the same.

[bassmaster]

Hobblegobble: It's ok to post your opinion about a song and have people tell you you're wrong. Who said they're right either? Just reading different opinions makes you think from another view point. Don't take it so personally and get pissed off about that. Don't be vengeful and post irrelevant things to piss off others either. Some people here really do choose to read certain threads because of the subject; therefore, it can get annoying when you think the thread will be about something specific and it's not.

Further to this...

It's seen a lot on forums. You know, some kid complaining that they have a right to express their opinion blah blah yawn yawn. Funny thing is they never mention other people's right to have an opinion about their opinion, do they?

[Thoracic Tergon]

I think it's "Silence, Legion..." and refers to Choronzon (demon of dispersion/abyss), the same being that was mentioned in the bible. That would fit perfectly in the theme of the song, i. e. of gaining balance, unity and peace of mind. Also, Choronzon is said to be the master of speech, disrupting one's silent balance by chaotic ramblings (hence Maynard ordering him to silence).

[Inner_Eulogy]

Oh, no. I get it. It's lit the bulb. I just don't think that's the line. It's just kind of . . . lame. Kind of like the "compromise our fulcrum" thing. I think that's rather shitty lyricism in both cases, and I really hope that the official lyrics don't present those as the real lines. I'll be disappointed if they do, although Maynard's lyrics have been a bit weak a few times in the past (see also: "Swamp Song," "The Grudge," and "Hush"). All these lines are open to debate, but I'm really surprised the consensus seems to be that "silence, Legion" is the real deal.

Well my opinion is it's "Silence leech an', save your poison"....and about the compromise our fulcrum line, how is that shitty lyrics? I don't see anything wrong with what's being said there.

[Inner_Eulogy]

The 'Silence, Legion!' line would be like telling the devil to leave you alone, you're no longer his tool to destroy Christianity.


I really don't think it has to do with christianty. I would agree with the line that it would be like telling the devil (or otherwise thought of as the negative influences and/or people in your life) that he's saying he's longer going to let them persuade him to make decisions that he's knows deep down are not the best one's for him (won't compromise his fulcrum).

[parsad13]

Well my opinion is it's "Silence leech an', save your poison"....and about the compromise our fulcrum line, how is that shitty lyrics? I don't see anything wrong with what's being said there.

I really don't think it has to do with christianty. I would agree with the line that it would be like telling the devil (or otherwise thought of as the negative influences and/or people in your life) that he's saying he's longer going to let them persuade him to make decisions that he's knows deep down are not the best one's for him (won't compromise his fulcrum).

I agree whole-heartedly. It seems that if christianity is mentioned, it is usually mentioned pretty blatantly (see eulogy, wings pt. 2). If any of their material since Aenima should be taken at face value, it's this record. It's too personal not to be. Also with the line, I definitely hear "silence leech". It's a good connection to T&L as well, with whatever can disrupt the balance in one's life.

[wearethestories]

I agree whole-heartedly. It seems that if christianity is mentioned, it is usually mentioned pretty blatantly (see eulogy, wings pt. 2). If any of their material since Aenima should be taken at face value, it's this record. It's too personal not to be. Also with the line, I definitely hear "silence leech". It's a good connection to T&L as well, with whatever can disrupt the balance in one's life.

And I disagree...

The whole song is linked very closely with Christianity (or with Christian themes), which obviously doesn't mean that Maynard or any of the band is a practising Christian, but the lyrics are there to suggest something fairly important. There's really no contextual basis for "leech" within the song. I suppose if you wanted to link this song with "Ticks and Leeches" you could make a weak case for it, but with the rest of the symbolism/imagery in the song talking about devils, martyrs, and a Benevolent Son who shines on, "leech" seems to not fit in the least.

Take a look at this passage from Scripture and see if you think an interpretation along the lines of the demon Legion isn't more accurate:

"They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes, which is across the lake from Galilee. When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but hadlived in the tonbs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, 'What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!' For Jesus had commanded the evil spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.
Jesus asked him, 'What is your name?'
'Legion,' he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.
A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission. When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned. (Luke 8:26-33)

Also, let's refrain from justifying our answers by "and I hear l---- so there". None of us know the actual answer to the question of "leech" vs. "legion". It's obvious that we can't agree on what the lyric is, so let's use the song contextualized instead of saying, "well, this sounds better and I like it" because that's really silly. If you can honestly make a case for "leech" or "leeches" then, by all means, go ahead. But please use the song itself and not a song written half a decade before on a different album to use as context.

[BlanketEffect]

And to further this, you cannot use Ænima or Undertow as a reference point to grade the lyrics of this album. They're not the same people they were 10-15 years ago. People grow. They change. Expression changes as ideals evolve. Not saying Maynard is pro-Christian now or anything like that. Just saying he seems to be a bit more 'grown-up' in his ways of expressing it. (Rather than 'come down, get off your fucking cross"

[Inner_Eulogy]

And I disagree...

The whole song is linked very closely with Christianity (or with Christian themes), which obviously doesn't mean that Maynard or any of the band is a practising Christian, but the lyrics are there to suggest something fairly important. There's really no contextual basis for "leech" within the song. I suppose if you wanted to link this song with "Ticks and Leeches" you could make a weak case for it, but with the rest of the symbolism/imagery in the song talking about devils, martyrs, and a Benevolent Son who shines on, "leech" seems to not fit in the least.

Take a look at this passage from Scripture and see if you think an interpretation along the lines of the demon Legion isn't more accurate:

"They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes, which is across the lake from Galilee. When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but hadlived in the tonbs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, 'What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!' For Jesus had commanded the evil spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.
Jesus asked him, 'What is your name?'
'Legion,' he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.
A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission. When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned. (Luke 8:26-33)

Also, let's refrain from justifying our answers by "and I hear l---- so there". None of us know the actual answer to the question of "leech" vs. "legion". It's obvious that we can't agree on what the lyric is, so let's use the song contextualized instead of saying, "well, this sounds better and I like it" because that's really silly. If you can honestly make a case for "leech" or "leeches" then, by all means, go ahead. But please use the song itself and not a song written half a decade before on a different album to use as context.

Well of course some good ole' bible thumper's going to sit there and recite verses from the bible and say, see...there's things in common and references in this verse similar to the lyrics here in Jambi and 10k Days. Those people also need to look up the word "METAPHOR". Yes I agree he uses some religious visualization in some form in these lyrics but I highly doubt it's a direct correlation with actual religion. I can say almost positively that Tool are NOT Christians...or ever were. I just don't see it one bit.

[wearethestories]

Well of course some good ole' bible thumper's going to sit there and recite verses from the bible and say, see...there's things in common and references in this verse similar to the lyrics here in Jambi and 10k Days. Those people also need to look up the word "METAPHOR". Yes I agree he uses some religious visualization in some form in these lyrics but I highly doubt it's a direct correlation with actual religion. I can say almost positively that Tool are NOT Christians...or ever were. I just don't see it one bit.

did you READ my post?

I started off saying that I don't think the band are Christians (nor do I think you really understand what the term means if you are going to call anyone who MENTIONS Christianity in a positive light a BIBLE THUMPER).

Way to "think for yourself" and NOT follow the beaten path of religion-hating.

There are definitely themes relating to Christianity within the song, and my purpose in quoting the Scripture was to make it easier for those who read it to see where I'm coming from as opposed to requiring them to look it up on their own. My post was intended as a SERVICE, and you seemed to see it as some sort of illegitimate comment on Maynard's "religious visualization" (which doesn't make sense as a phrase).

Can we back up and learn to accept others' views without adhering to them or immediately calling their views into question because of a positive attitude toward a religion which calls for PEACE?

[wearethestories]

and if you don't think there's merit to quoting something (i.e. the Bible and Christianity in general) that obviously has had a huge impact on Maynard's life (for good or ill) then there has got to be something seriously impairing your reasoning skills.

[wearethestories]

(sorry to keep posting back-to-back)

but to use imagery in a song is not to ADHERE to its source

there's importance to the passage from Luke, but I don't think the song is saying to go be like Jesus and cast out demons into herds of pigs.

I DO think there's something there that speaks to the demon LEGION as FOUND IN THE GOSPEL OF LUKE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT (which I think most people reading this would agree is not a too far stretch)

[BlanketEffect]

No, it makes total sense. In all honesty, I'm almost to the point now that anyone disagreeing with it being 'Legion' is simply deluding themselves. The imagery, the precedents throughout the song, the command which he is executing.

The devil will not hold me down any longer. I'll not follow the dark path that I had found. Legion (biblical name of the demon representing the hordes of Hell), be quiet and save your lies. Stay out of my way. I'm in it for growth and the dark path only leads to hatred and destruction. All your path does it hold me back.

*shrugs* I just can't justify a better argument than that. It's Legion, yo!

[Inner_Eulogy]

No, it makes total sense. In all honesty, I'm almost to the point now that anyone disagreeing with it being 'Legion' is simply deluding themselves. The imagery, the precedents throughout the song, the command which he is executing.

The devil will not hold me down any longer. I'll not follow the dark path that I had found. Legion (biblical name of the demon representing the hordes of Hell), be quiet and save your lies. Stay out of my way. I'm in it for growth and the dark path only leads to hatred and destruction. All your path does it hold me back.

*shrugs* I just can't justify a better argument than that. It's Legion, yo!

It's "Silence leech an', save your poison, silence leech an', stay out of my way"

[wearethestories]

It's "Silence leech an', save your poison, silence leech an', stay out of my way"

ok...

but why leech?

how does that fit the song?

[Inner_Eulogy]

ok...

but why leech?

how does that fit the song?

I may be wrong about leech but that's my opinion....and how does it NOT fit. Either one could. If you were to call somebody a leech, what would you mean by it. Although, I do see your point with the reference to leech or legion...I suppose now that it just popped in my head it does make more sense. Okay, so maybe it is legion.

[Esurient4Truth]

Back on topic:

Nice link Maggie. It's definitly "leech".

I tend to disagree.

Both say "silence legion."

Turn the treble up, and listen closely. To be honest, both sound like leeches, but here's my explanation and theory:

The 1st is "Silent Legion". you get the "S" noise for "Legions" (which is false) when he goes from the 'ons' ending of Legions to the "jus" of just. When he's preparing to the transition between the two words, you get the s sound. For example, "silent legiON (s)JUst..." When you pronounce the letter J, you say it like JAY. For Just, depending on how you say it, you can make it sound like "shust."

Say to yourself quickly, "Are you just standing there or what?" = Are you SHust standing there or what?" Because "just" isn't at the beginning of the Sentence, there's no real reason to pronounce the J and make it known, but rather continue flowing with the sentence with the SHust sound.

As for the 2nd "Silent Legion," there's only one way to differentiate between Legions and Leeches. The ONS. Silent leechONS? I don't think so. I definitely don't hear HEZ, as in "leecHEZ."

Edit: (since I accidently pressed save changes)

Legion. It almost sounds like Li Chun. Now think about Leeches. Lee Chez. In the word leeches, there is definately a longer pronounciation of the Li/Lee segment. However, because these similarities are so close between Legions and Leeches, it's impossible to tell from the first part which word is which. But the last segment of the word sounds like CHUN, or shun. There is no CHEZ (please don't think cheese, think CHEZ, as in PEZ).

The Lee Chun sound comes from Maynard vocally becoming more aggressive and putting more emphasis on Legion as the song progresses.

[redjenova]

And I disagree...

The whole song is linked very closely with Christianity (or with Christian themes), which obviously doesn't mean that Maynard or any of the band is a practising Christian, but the lyrics are there to suggest something fairly important. There's really no contextual basis for "leech" within the song. I suppose if you wanted to link this song with "Ticks and Leeches" you could make a weak case for it, but with the rest of the symbolism/imagery in the song talking about devils, martyrs, and a Benevolent Son who shines on, "leech" seems to not fit in the least.

Take a look at this passage from Scripture and see if you think an interpretation along the lines of the demon Legion isn't more accurate:

"They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes, which is across the lake from Galilee. When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but hadlived in the tonbs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, 'What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!' For Jesus had commanded the evil spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.
Jesus asked him, 'What is your name?'
'Legion,' he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.
A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission. When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned. (Luke 8:26-33)

Also, let's refrain from justifying our answers by "and I hear l---- so there". None of us know the actual answer to the question of "leech" vs. "legion". It's obvious that we can't agree on what the lyric is, so let's use the song contextualized instead of saying, "well, this sounds better and I like it" because that's really silly. If you can honestly make a case for "leech" or "leeches" then, by all means, go ahead. But please use the song itself and not a song written half a decade before on a different album to use as context.

I couldn't agree more.

Everything fits. Although I completely realize (how could I not?) that Maynard is in no way affiliating himself with Christianity, he does seem to have a certain fascination for it in that it influences his songwriting to some extent. So did Douglas Adams (Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy), who has stated in interviews that he "is convinced there is not [a god]". Yet in his books you can find a startling amount of Christian references. I know this isn't exactly Maynard talking, but it seemed like an interesting mirror:

"I am fascinated by religion. (That’s a completely different thing from believing in it!) It has had such an incalculably huge effect on human affairs. What is it? What does it represent? Why have we invented it? How does it keep going? What will become of it? I love to keep poking and prodding at it. I’ve thought about it so much over the years that that fascination is bound to spill over into my writing. " -Douglas Adams

That just seems so much to me how I think Maynard envisions religion, especially since it's had such an impact on his life (through his mother, I think). It's of such interest to him, whether he believes it or not, that he can't help but write about it.


As for the leech theory, it seems justifiable as far as sound goes (then again, so does "silently just") but you haven't presented much of an argument for it background-wise. I'm not gonna throw it down as a theory of course, considering neither of us are going to have any real clue as to what it is until the official lyrics come in, but "Legion" just seems a lot more in tune with the album's theme.

[opiated]

Fuck it. Maynard needs speech therapy. :P

But let me add this note here, anyway, it seems people who tend to side with the "leech" interpretation appear (and I stress that) to obviously draw that conclusion from basically one thing: "Ticks & Leeches" and it's lyrics. There's nothing else there to prove it.

It's Legion, simply put. Case (almost) closed. There's enough evidence there to back it up, not to fit it flows with the lyrics of the song and the imagery and mood of the whole album. Although I'm horrible at writing lyrics, I would like to think I do understand what makes a decent set of them: good imagery, solid metaphors, show-of-whit, a dash of intelligence, no bullshitting, and enough pot holes to make getting to where you're going in the song hard to get to if you desire.

This is like that whole issue with "Bottom" around six minutes and twenty something seconds into the song. I can't believe that some people think that the lyrics are that point are "Happiness keeps me alive." Stupid! That is bad writing, sorry, to go against the context of your own lyrics for just one line; to go from darkness to a brief pinhole of light like that. I doubt Maynard would do that, as he clearly shows that his writing is well thought out and not written in five minutes.

I also doubt Maynard would make links to previous albums in the lyrics as a whole. Sure, previous issues may be revisited, but just look at the lyrics on Undertow and so on. There are no links that I can name right from the top of my head. Sorry. This rules "Leeches" out.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Fuck it. Maynard needs speech therapy. :P

But let me add this note here, anyway, it seems people who tend to side with the "leech" interpretation appear (and I stress that) to obviously draw that conclusion from basically one thing: "Ticks & Leeches" and it's lyrics. There's nothing else there to prove it.

It's Legion, simply put. Case (almost) closed. There's enough evidence there to back it up, not to fit it flows with the lyrics of the song and the imagery and mood of the whole album. Although I'm horrible at writing lyrics, I would like to think I do understand what makes a decent set of them: good imagery, solid metaphors, show-of-whit, a dash of intelligence, no bullshitting, and enough pot holes to make getting to where you're going in the song hard to get to if you desire.

This is like that whole issue with "Bottom" around six minutes and twenty something seconds into the song. I can't believe that some people think that the lyrics are that point are "Happiness keeps me alive." Stupid! That is bad writing, sorry, to go against the context of your own lyrics for just one line; to go from darkness to a brief pinhole of light like that. I doubt Maynard would do that, as he clearly shows that his writing is well thought out and not written in five minutes.

I also doubt Maynard would make links to previous albums in the lyrics as a whole. Sure, previous issues may be revisited, but just look at the lyrics on Undertow and so on. There are no links that I can name right from the top of my head. Sorry. This rules "Leeches" out.

Ahh, no it doesn't

[jevons]

Not reading all that, going straight for the jugular.

Legion = percieved agents of darkness holding him back: addiction, division, etc. In order to survive them , the character has chosen to personify them.

And Maynard's diction with a microphone is perfect.
Ever notice how dumb you feel when you find out you had the lyrics wrong? It's because the phonetics are there, you just connected what you thought you heard before you made an objective decision.

[opiated]

Ahh, no it doesn't

Believe what you will. :P

[Apachana]

2 words from me.

choronzon

and "Dim my eyes, Tear my eyes. Tear my eyes salvation"

[Inner_Eulogy]

2 words from me.

choronzon

and "Dim my eyes, Tear my eyes. Tear my eyes salvation"

Wrong here just like the other thread you wasted space with

[bassmaster]

How about everyone just draw their own conclusions about what the lyrics are, as was intended in the first fucking place and stop attempting to change each other's stubbornly immoveable beliefs on what the lyrics are?

Just a thought guys. Peace.

[Thoracic Tergon]

I just realized the immense and unpierceable futility of arguing over what the lyrics really mean. No wait, that kind of knocks out the reason for like half of the threads in the "10,000 days" section. Mmah, guess I'll just go listen to some more Tool in my new headphones and stop reading the loads of "no I've always thought it means this!" junk on this forum...

[Inner_Eulogy]

I just realized the immense and unpierceable futility of arguing over what the lyrics really mean. No wait, that kind of knocks out the reason for like half of the threads in the "10,000 days" section. Mmah, guess I'll just go listen to some more Tool in my new headphones and stop reading the loads of "no I've always thought it means this!" junk on this forum...

YOU JUST GO AND DO JUST THAT PAL...YEAH, YOU HEARD ME

[Apachana]

Wrong here just like the other thread you wasted space with

hostile people are seldom intelligent.
think about that, and:
argumentum ad hominem.

you narcissistic drama-queen.

[SDDJS]

Silently just say your prays
And silence me, just stay out of my way

Just an idea

[ahhnevermind]

definitely hear

silence legion, say/stay your poison [usually hear say]
silently just stay out of my way

its either the catharsis of the song, a self-exorcism of the demons he's lamenting through the whole song, or an angry recognition of the ego (whose job it is to overcome obstacles in order to survive another day and season)... like when you're on a long road trip with someone you depend on but blame for everything wrong in your life... "fuck you and get in the car.", or, lastly, the ego itself interrupting the meditative optimism of the song. this might be most likely since it seems the one theme connecting all the songs is humanity's failure to live up to its potential.

anyways,

to distinguish these sounds there are three main spots i listened to:

silen(1)ce legion, say your poison
silen(2)tly(3)just stay out of my way

at 1, you can hear a "sss", a soft ending. this indicates silence, not silent.
at 2, you hear no "sss" but the hard hit of a "t". thus not silence but silent/ly.
at 3, there is an accent, an emphasis. this is what makes people hear leech. however, if it's leech, then he's emphasizing an empty syllable - reznor/capital G style: "silent leech-UH stay out of my way," as opposed to "silently JUST stay out of my way". so not unheard of, but i got brandish occam's razor on this one.

nobody reads long posts.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I have up on this until the "officials" are released

[FrankusChrist]

everyone needs to go see them live. I just saw them at bonnaroo. Maynard made it a point to pronounce all the debated parts of jambi. i don't feel it appropriate to actually tell you all what the right words are...its kind of funny watching you all argue about it..but none or most of you are wrong. cheers

[FrankusChrist]

"all" not "none"

[Inner_Eulogy]

everyone needs to go see them live. I just saw them at bonnaroo. Maynard made it a point to pronounce all the debated parts of jambi. i don't feel it appropriate to actually tell you all what the right words are...its kind of funny watching you all argue about it..but none or most of you are wrong. cheers

And how delightfully retarded of you to make an asshole lackluster comment as such.

[Drawn Under]

Well, I suppose I will be the one to set the thread straight. I think leech or legion is still a great choice of words for that portion of the song. It seems it could really go either way, I agree with BlanketEffect on his view about legion but leech could also work because one might associate a leech with poison, (They do secrete a numbing chemical so they can remain attached without being noticed by their host), but either one is a good choice. It seems to sound a little bit more like leech to me but the mood of the song would make sense if it was legion. Its one of my favorite parts of the song because of the pure intensity.

[opiated]

"I'm gonna be the one that said I told you so."

[Inner_Eulogy]

"I'm gonna be the one that said I told you so."

Wow, good timing. What's that, um 8mos later

[opiated]

Wow, good timing. What's that, um 8mos later

Better late than never.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Better late than never.

Not really, that's just what your momma told you to make you feel better. Kind of like how she also told you about Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Toothfairy.