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View Full Version : This is long but take your time and read it in small portions if you will, please:)


vedrimir
12-25-2006, 12:05 AM
I respect all those who stand for the idea of everyone's individual interpretation, however, i think every song has some sort of purpose and direction and some basic foundations that are intersubjective and that have nothing to do with "individual interpretation", but rather serve as positive and certain orientation in making a halfway objective and meaningful interpretation. Interpretation can be "subjective", but it cant be arbitrary or unfounded. So, i cant satisfy with just coming up with "my own interpretation", i want to know where Maynard is coming from with this song before i draw my own conclusions. This song has been driving me mad for years now and i decided to make a couple of observations. I cant accept "make your own interpretation" concept as long as there are so many contradictions and gaps in every interpretation. Interpretation needs to be coherent and every lyric has to make sense and back up the interpretation given.

Its been told that this song is about drugs, and it has also been denied by that famous "half full/half empty" explanation. I think song could be interpreted in that way, as some sort of self-exploration related to drug experiences, but it doesnt hold up as firmly as interpretation i can give, and Maynard himself allegedly told the song was not about drugs. Also, title of this song has been related to Maynard's son's middle name, and while it is an impressive and unexpected hint, the rest of the lyrics just cant keep together. So, i dont really think this song is about Maynard getting a child.

Ill now try to give "my own interpretation", and ill try to clear some things up in regards to symbols used in this song. First of all, i accept half-empty/half full explanation. To me, this song cant be about Maynard's actual child, but it can only be about certain spiritual and emotional state that has something to do with different sort of "children", and different sort of birth.

As soon as i got into the lyrics for this song i had little doubt that this song was about writing songs, about art, about creative act. I felt Maynard was trying to depict the conflict poet feels while being torn by simultaneous desire to give in to his emotions and to restrain from doing so, being aware of the damage confessional act might cause. Thats why he says these too forces are "killing" him "just the same", even though theyre "both totally void of hate". Up to this point hes in passive and powerless situation and he only accentuates the same dilemma in the next verse. "Snake BEHIND me" (as a force that is preventing him from "giving a birth", or writing a song, or succumbing to his emotions) and "blood BEFORE me" (as a creative, inspirational force that is teasing him to "open up" his "heart again") are colliding and producing this half-full/half-empty condition that is "coming over like a storm". In the next sequence the song is taking a direction towards solving this conflict. Both music and lyrics get some sense of gradation and ascending. The verse goes like this : "venomous voice tempts me, drains me... drags me down like some sweet GRAVITY". The poet (well, Maynard, but its not actually Maynard, because art is never about real person's privacy but about artist's intimacy) is being slowly dragged into this temptation and hes getting closer to giving in and letting his emotions explode. At that point comes the first chorus. This "poet" is giving in, hes establishing a contact, a "connection" with this fatal, impersonal force that is being depicted as "blood before me" (some physiological impulse so to speak), as "venomous voice" that "tempts", hes really getting into it, and embracing its twofold effect - relief, but also "damage", "slipping away", "fading away" and, most importantly being killed in a "considerate" way. This "considerately" adverb is the most subtle lyrical nuance, because it describes the experience of writing in a way that is as precise as it can get. Act of writing could be described as "considerate death": slow, gradual and cyclical dieing off. All these layers of meaning are present in H.'s lyrics - we are learning this experience is repeating itself (note the frequency of use and emphasis the singer puts on the word AGAIN), we are finding out it is enduring "days away". It is "touching", and "changing", and "killing" the poet. No need to say, erotic parallel is very obvious. Art as a substitute for love, and works of art as metaphors for children, these two analogies have been ever present in reflections about art. Power of Maynard's lyrics is that he manages to merge these layers and symbols together in inseparable unity. It is paradoxical - giving a birth is also killing you. It is THAT experience that the song is trying to convey. If you ever wrote anything you will know it - you are giving a birth, you are creating something, and yet, you cant help but feel something has been lost and part of you just died. Creation and destruction happen at the same time.

So, the song goes on, we have the instrumental bridge/interlude section, as the music is shifting the dramatic tension and preparing a scenery for another confrontation. Then lyrics go on to show this "poet" at the actual moment of giving in and succumbing to his temptation. Hes not only naked, but even more than that - hes "without a skin", and also "beneath the storm", the same "storm" that was caused by this internal collision and conflict between these BEHIND and BEFORE forces... Maynard now gives another brilliantly accurate definition of his creative process when he says hes "under these tears". In the upper verse he mentioned a "snake that sings a songs" and that is "looking up to turn" his "piss to wine". He now shows how his anger (btw, the emotion that carried Tool throughout most of the Undertow album, before getting into more cathartic and emotionally varied Aenima and so much more cleansed and elevating Lateralus), by this giving in, is being turned into tears and confessional desperation. Hes basically taking his words quite litereally, as any good poet should, and hes setting a scenery where hes about to physically confront his embodied fears, where storm and tears are being used as actual phenomina, and tears are being perceived as rain. Anyways, "the walls come down", as hes able to "look in the eyes" of his enemy/lover, inspiration/killer, and that is when his "fear begins to fade" as he realizes he "could" and "should have cried" each and every time in the past, when he obviously didnt have the courage to do it (crying is not cowardish, it takes courage, you know:)). So, now, as hes brave enough, he first looks in the snake's eyes and "drowns" it with his tears, and then he looks in the eyes of this famous and impersonal YOU (thats the "as i look in your eyes" lyric - in any case, it is the same YOU as the one from the chorus, the one that hes "connected to", and that is "considerately killing" him). Dramatic tension is reaching its high, as this poet is now speaking directly to the subject of the song, hes no longer depicting his passive condition in the absence, where he was only tempted by some "voice", but now hes taking action and facing his fear and making it "fade", despite being aware, despite "recalling" (its a cycle remember!) the fact that he has already "died" in his previous encounters with this temptation, and despite knowing that he "will die" again. Now, just like any artist at the state when he can no longer hold emotions in him, he "doesnt mind", and gives in for yet another and possibly final time. Chorus reprise follows, and this fatal and fetal connection is being re-established, touching and changing and eventual considerate killing, it all happens once again, as the song itself - obviously a result of the very same process in Maynard's soul - comes to its end as well. It equally gives a feeling of quieting death rattle and descending orgasm - death and love embrace...

So, that is my interpretation, according to the lyrics that i have, and the feeling i get from the music... However, i have to showcase an important contradiction in my interpretation (but it could be Maynard's oversight too, cause i really feel like i can sense where hes coming from and whats his aim with this song): this symbol of snake first appears as something that is "singing songs", and then it appears as something that "hisses" what "damage" could happen if the poet "opens up" his "heart again" (i.e. if he writes a poem or sings a song). I see this as contradiction ("whats singing songs is a snake" as opposed to "snake behind me hisses, what my damage could have been"), and be it my interpretation's inadequacy or Maynard's oversight, it does make things a little bit problematic. Other than that, im pretty sure hes singing about "singing songs", and about how it has both therapeutic and lethal effect on his soul. Half-full/half-empty.

4degrees_under_fire
12-25-2006, 08:44 AM
The entire first half of the song (everything up until "Without this skin") sounds a bit pained or frighted, almost as though what was going on at the time hurt/scarred him in some way. Perhaps it is a song about writing songs or creating some other form of art, but I feel it is more of a song about self-realization or change. Change is not something that one doesn't notice. It is something felt forever. Whoever undergoes a change remembers what it was like before and what it felt like to actually go through it.

The whole first verse is the start of the person changing, be it Maynard or someone else. The mirror in line two is the person looking at themselves, while the snake from line three is "singing songs" about how they should be, as though trying to change them for the better ("Looking to turn this piss to wine"). "They're both totally void of hate / But killing me just the same" reads out almost like they see themselves and know that there is something in them that pains them and needs to change, but what the snake wants them to become will hurt them just as much as whatever hurts them now. The snake tells them what they could be if they don't change, what could happen to them as a result of their unwillingness and, not knowing what the change will do, their heart tells them to follow what the snake says. They can feel the "storm" of change coming again, as though it has happened before, slowly now. As the song progresses through the next verse, the snake continues to tell them what they should change, what they should become. As a result, the changes "drains me, bleeds me, leaves me cracked and empty. Drags me down like some sweet gravity." The changes hurt, making them feel empty as they lay out on the ground, cracked open like an egg. All the while, the snake continues to tell them what they should become as the storm of change approaches faster. Even as the storm approaches, there is something that keeps them from changing too much, something that acts almost like a ground wire for a power cord- a memory or person, perhaps. The snake, though it has backed off, still tries to change them, still bringing the pain and storm.

As the change progresses ("Beneath the storm"), whatever "walls"- or personal barriers- that were in their mind are broken down, allowing them a certain freedom to escape from the storm that the snake brought upon them. The act "drowns" the snake, releasing them from the changes that the snake was putting upon them and, therefor, changing the nature of the storm. The fear they were experiencing during the change began to "fade" away as they are "recalling all the times" before when they "should have cried," most likely from the pains they felt. The eyes they look into, probably the person that acted as the 'ground wire,' they begin to recall the memories of when it felt like they died and when they will feel it again. Their connection to both the person and the snake are both strong enough to where they won't change, but they can still feel the change the snake tried to put them through. Even as such, though, the pains they felt while looking into the mirror remain, as what the snake was telling them needed to be changed wasn't the actual issue that needed to be dealt with.

If the snake and the person I describe as being the 'ground wire' are one and the same, I don't think my particular interpretation of the song will change all that much.

And yes, this interpretation was formed off of a personal experience, and a very recent one, at that.

Inner_Eulogy
12-28-2006, 11:12 AM
I kind of glanced at both of the above posts but I didn't bother to thoroughly read them both as it was a mile long. However, I believe you are both half right somewhat. I do believe the true meaning of this song is a combination of the birth of his son Devo (H. being his middle initial) and the philosophies of Carl Jung (countless references about this in the song). The shadow and snake are both terms used in Jung's work. If you read into this a little more you will then truly understand the song. It's about an inner emotional battle Maynard had within himself between himself and his ego when he learned his life was now going to be completely different with a child in his life. Fighting and wondering will he be able to make the necessary sacrifices (consideratly killing him - the former him) for this new life before him. What's holding up is a mirror "a reflection of himself in his son". I am am work right now, I will elaborate more later after work line for line perhaps. Either that or look up the snake and shadow in Jung's works.

vedrimir
01-28-2007, 12:59 AM
well, 4degrees_under_fire's interpretation makes sense too, but somehow i happen to lay extreme importance on verse "whats singing songs is a snake", and i think that verse gives lyrics orientation towards exploration of creative process and not just self exploration.

Inner eulogy, you make interesting points, and im pretty sure there could be some Jungian reference that i lack, but at the same time, when you say:

"Fighting and wondering will he be able to make the necessary sacrifices (consideratly killing him - the former him) for this new life before him."

i cant see a trace of hope or "new life" in the song. This song is sad and "pessimistic". Theres nothing like new hope, or new life, or third eye opened... The subject is not evolving, hes basically dieing off, and i cant see it as if the "old version" of himself is dieing, but actually his most fundamental being...

Arkham Asylum
01-28-2007, 07:16 AM
These two interpretations are by far the most thought-out ones I have ever seen. Very impressive, vedrimir and 4degrees_under_fire.

Inner_Eulogy
02-09-2007, 11:23 AM
well, 4degrees_under_fire's interpretation makes sense too, but somehow i happen to lay extreme importance on verse "whats singing songs is a snake", and i think that verse gives lyrics orientation towards exploration of creative process and not just self exploration.

Inner eulogy, you make interesting points, and im pretty sure there could be some Jungian reference that i lack, but at the same time, when you say:

"Fighting and wondering will he be able to make the necessary sacrifices (consideratly killing him - the former him) for this new life before him."

i cant see a trace of hope or "new life" in the song. This song is sad and "pessimistic". Theres nothing like new hope, or new life, or third eye opened... The subject is not evolving, hes basically dieing off, and i cant see it as if the "old version" of himself is dieing, but actually his most fundamental being...

I know what you're saying but you're looking at my point from the wrong angle. It's not sad and pessimistic at all unless you're interpreting what he's saying in the line "considerately killing me" at face value. I believe reading between the lines is the correct way to view it. He's not saying he's dying off or it's killing HIM, it's his shadow (Carl Jung reference) that his son is killing off. The birth of his son forced Maynard to face himself and break down his many emotional walls. The snake is the many negative influences and temptations that face a rockstar life. He's not referencing lyrics by the line "what's singing songs is a snake", he's poetically saying the many temptations he has right at his fingertips begging him to give into them (a little angel on one shoulder and devil on the other, his battling consciousness). Looking to turn my piss to wine, saying how these things are so tempting and they always make you feel better (like going to a big party with 10 out of 10 rated strippers and whatever it is that tickles your fancy)...the snake (or devil on his shoulder) is that voice that keeps telling him to give in because it's fun but (they're both totally void of hate, but killing me just the same) he's got his newborn son on one side and the fun party life on the other, and he's battling within himself to make the right decision. Anyone who has lived a fun life and partying that has had a kid will be able to completly relate to all of this. Thus we come back to the "considerably killing me" line - this is what I meant in better detail of that line referring to the birth of his son considerably killing me". At face value as I was saying, you don't kill somebody in a negative way by being considerate unless of course the killing is for a positive reason, hence killing off his devil/negative temtpations to become the best person he can be for his newfound joy of life, his son Devo (middle intitial H.)

Arkham Asylum
02-09-2007, 04:25 PM
Let me see if I understand you correctly, Inner_Eulogy:

What's singing songs is a snake.
Who's singing songs is Maynard.

As in, he himself is that snake.

Inner_Eulogy
02-13-2007, 01:35 PM
Let me see if I understand you correctly, Inner_Eulogy:

What's singing songs is a snake.
Who's singing songs is Maynard.

As in, he himself is that snake.

You must not have read my post, either that or your dyslexia is kickin in. The snake does not refer to Maynard, and Maynard is not referencing himself as the snake. The snake is a metaphorical figure of speech symbolizing the negative temptations and/or people in his life.

McButterpants
02-14-2007, 09:30 AM
Right - I do think both of these are complimentary anaylses, and also very good ones. However, you have both missed the importance of "No, I don't mind. No, I don't mind! No, I don't MIND!" - which also matches the intro and chorus riff (but not the last chorus AFTER he has been changed, the guitar riff here changes). It is all too tempting to interpret the lyrics only - but these are songs and the music is very important.

"No, I don't mind" is a very important line in the song - I would like you to fit it into your interpretations, if you can. One thing, to me, is clear - this is not an apathetic cry, it's accepting and agreeing to (I think) change by the song's object (heroin, Maynard's son, a lover, choice, being human, artistic expression etc...) When I set about interpreting the track I took this chorus part as my focal point and something to bear in mind throughout - as with the closing lines as the music fades out, which you have also rightly emphasised.

P.S. I kinda feel bad about the juxtaposition of 'heroin' and 'Maynard's son' as I wrote them above.

Inner_Eulogy
02-15-2007, 11:06 AM
Right - I do think both of these are complimentary anaylses, and also very good ones. However, you have both missed the importance of "No, I don't mind. No, I don't mind! No, I don't MIND!" - which also matches the intro and chorus riff (but not the last chorus AFTER he has been changed, the guitar riff here changes). It is all too tempting to interpret the lyrics only - but these are songs and the music is very important.

"No, I don't mind" is a very important line in the song - I would like you to fit it into your interpretations, if you can. One thing, to me, is clear - this is not an apathetic cry, it's accepting and agreeing to (I think) change by the song's object (heroin, Maynard's son, a lover, choice, being human, artistic expression etc...) When I set about interpreting the track I took this chorus part as my focal point and something to bear in mind throughout - as with the closing lines as the music fades out, which you have also rightly emphasised.

P.S. I kinda feel bad about the juxtaposition of 'heroin' and 'Maynard's son' as I wrote them above.

He's saying I don't mind right after stating "considerately killing me". This still fits in perfectly fine with my fixated opinion that it's about his son. As stated before, considerately killing me means the old Maynard/negative Maynard killing of his former emotional walls to be a better person for his son now that he has someone else in his life whom he must care for. He's killing off parts of himself but he doesn't mind because it's a choice for the better and the best for his son. The line "Remembering all the times I could've cried then, I should have cried then" reinforces this. He's thinking back to all the times he felt the need to be the steretypical male and not show his emotions by crying at times that would normally be deemed appropriate but the experience of having a son has broken down all those preconceived barriers and he probably broke down and cried when his son was born, or perhaps afterwards when he realized he didn't have to hide his inner sensitivity anymore. This is what Carl Jung's work was about, The Shadow, or his anima (female aspect - emotional aspect) specifically spoken about in this song. That's what this song is about people. Us males are taught our whole lives to be tough and less sensitive, his battle within himself is to compromise that within himself and realize it's ok to embrace the feminine side within all males and vice versa with females. To embrace one's own shadow is to learn and master oneself (two becoming one - per sey). To be a complete human being. His son is what drove him to see this as a necessity.

McButterpants
02-15-2007, 01:45 PM
As stated before, considerately killing me means the old Maynard/negative Maynard killing of his former emotional walls to be a better person for his son now that he has someone else in his life whom he must care for. He's killing off parts of himself but he doesn't mind because it's a choice for the better and the best for his son.

Yeah, that has made that interpretation clearer - I think the emphasis is on the change going on in the subject. However I don't share your Utilitarian view. I think it's clear from the music and Maynard's vocals that this isn't something done through a calculation or a decision of what is best - it is love drawing the change and the superiority of the feeling Maynard has for his son, on your account. That's why he is BEING considerately killed, it's not something he has decided as such - love and feelings are not things one can choose. But, of course, 'I don't mind'.

This still touches me as a love song. But this doesn't contradict the track being about Maynard's son, and the evidence is pretty good. I think, barring my above complaint, that I agree with your interpretation of the track, although there is no way I can feel the fatherly love since I am young and childless. It's still good to listen to as track about skag though.

vedrimir
02-21-2007, 04:52 PM
I tried my best but i still cant see a single reference to his son, apart from dubious "H." title. Im not saying these references are not present, but i fail to track such interpretation consequently.

Also, i think "i dont mind" line definitely doesnt sound triumphant (like "spiral out" in Lateralus for instance). To me, theres definitely something fatalistic in the mood of this song and "i dont mind" sounds like heroine addiceted man's cry (not that the song has to be about heroine) rather than positive exclamation of a man who found his new path. The consequences of his struggle are bad and fatal, and theres no any kind of re-birth or afirmation to it, imo. Its pretty much the same fatality you have in 46&2. "Days away", hes still connected to the source of his destruction to the point of "slipping away" and "fading away", and right to the point of death.

So, i lean more to half-full/half-empty interpretation than to Devo's birth related one, but reading your analysis was well worth and very appreciated...

Inner_Eulogy
02-22-2007, 11:01 AM
Yeah, that has made that interpretation clearer - I think the emphasis is on the change going on in the subject. However I don't share your Utilitarian view. I think it's clear from the music and Maynard's vocals that this isn't something done through a calculation or a decision of what is best - it is love drawing the change and the superiority of the feeling Maynard has for his son, on your account. That's why he is BEING considerately killed, it's not something he has decided as such - love and feelings are not things one can choose. But, of course, 'I don't mind'.

This still touches me as a love song. But this doesn't contradict the track being about Maynard's son, and the evidence is pretty good. I think, barring my above complaint, that I agree with your interpretation of the track, although there is no way I can feel the fatherly love since I am young and childless. It's still good to listen to as track about skag though.

I never said it was a decision he consciously made. My point was along the lines of exactly what you said being that love drew the change from him although I'm sure it's a combination of the 2, part being a conscious decision to make better choices and face his own fears but also coming to this point due to the love for his son.