Maynard Splits?

[Fifth]

The Tool Enigma.

"Think for yourself, question authority" Many know this quote from the beginning of Third Eye on Tools forth album Salival and its the basis this piece is written on. If you think things are black or white and nothing else or that Tool are just some band then you might as well stop reading now, this isn’t for you. For those still here I hope you find this theory at the least interesting, hopefully more.

Most know Maynard James Keenan is a stage name for James Hubert Keenan but it is not just a cosmetic name change. It is because Maynard is an act, a persona, like Ziggy Stardust was for David Bowie. Maynard’s role is to become a martyr figure to the
fans until they realise this fact, like a puzzle. Eulogy is Maynard’s Eulogy, h. stands for Hubert, his real middle name. jimmy is his real first name but isn’t a capital because to Tool fans this is his middle name. Prison Sex’s line "Release in sodomy" is actually "Release inside of me" the fans are his "Lamb and Martyr" In effect the fans need to understand and destroy the Maynard persona
because he is James and most the songs are about the struggle between Maynard and James over control of the one person (Pushit, Third Eye) No wonder people say he's schizophrenic.

All of the symbolism I’ve found will be gone into in much more detail in later posts, there is too much to post here all at once, a couple more things I’ve noticed. Here is my take on the end lyrics in Reflection. What has to be remembered is that all Tools work can be interrupted in many ways, what I’m saying is that there is one common thread which links it all

"So crucify the ego before its far too late" - The ego being the Maynard persona.

"Leave behind this place so negative, void and cynical" - The platform Tool currently hold.

"When you come to find, that we are all one mind" - That Maynard is a "Reflection" of the four
members.
"Capable of all this, imagine it all conceivable" - That what I’m trying to say is conceivable?

Let the light touch you and the words spill through" - The light being Tools visual work and the words being there music

"Bringing out our hope and reason" - Tools hope for mankind and there reason for why they’ve done this.

And then you have Schism "I know the pieces fit" and Disposition’s "Mention this to me and watch the weather change" Ticks and Leeches is for all the people who have questioned Tools intentions while they built this puzzle. "Hope this is what you wanted, hope this is what you had in mind, cause this is what your getting"

I don’t know how many of you know about the true track order for Lateralus but here it is. It revolves round the number 13. Which is the track number of the garbled message Faaid de Oiadd

13
1,12 =13
2,11 =13
3,10 =13
4,9 =13
5,8 =13
6,7 =13

It runs on two spirals revolving around track 13, they are -

6,7,5,8,4,9 then 12,1,11,2,10,3 making the full order, 6,7,5,8,4,9,13,12,1,11,2,10,3.

Listen to the timing of the last bit of guitar in Parabola going into Schism and the drums coming out of Schism going into Ticks and
Leeches and you should be able to hear why this order is correct.

There's so much more but I just want to see peoples reactions to this first before I waste my time trying to explain further.

Peace

Fifth

[Open Eye Visual]

I don’t know how many of you know about the true track order for Lateralus but here it is. It revolves round the number 13. Which is the track number of the garbled message Faaid de Oiadd

13
1,12 =13
2,11 =13
3,10 =13
4,9 =13
5,8 =13
6,7 =13

It runs on two spirals revolving around track 13, they are -

6,7,5,8,4,9 then 12,1,11,2,10,3 making the full order, 6,7,5,8,4,9,13,12,1,11,2,10,3.

Listen to the timing of the last bit of guitar in Parabola going into Schism and the drums coming out of Schism going into Ticks and
Leeches and you should be able to hear why this order is correct.



you just answered the question i posted a few minutes ago. thank you so much. i've been trying to get an answer from people for months upon months. i love you.

[TrueBart]

Now I just think you're analying things too much, that is almost ridiculous.

[dissociation]

it's "maynard" not "msynard."

a true track order for lateralus? if that were so, why do certain tracks flow into each other? reflection flows into triad, but according to your "analysis/theory," they're not next to each other. what's up with that?

i don't think tool sat down thinking of some huge puzzle for kids. sorry, i don't buy it. it's true how schism sounds better after parabola, but so what? on nine inch nails' the fragile, a lot of tracks flow differently if they're out of the order they're in already. does this mean trent reznor thought of some puzzle that's really a huge spiral? highly unlikely.

it's good your questioning meanings, don't get me wrong, but you've overdone it. the whole maynard persona is, most likely, b.s. i can't say it IS b.s. because i don't know the guy, but come on, what's the chance all that is true? that's something bono of u2 did... he went on stage as "the fly" or "macphisto." but maynard kept the same name in a perfect circle. the man has aged and matured, not become somebody else. why isn't he all crazy and outgoing like in '93? because a) he's wealthier b) he's older c) he's done more drugs so therefore, he wants to use those experiences as influence in his job.

and why focus all on maynard? what about adam? he certainly has changed, but i'm not saying he's a fake. and danny...? he didn't seem too into this mathematics-spirituality crap in '92. but he is now, so he must be a schizo, right? sorry, but people change over time... you shouldn't come up with this irrational theory with no proof except your own wondering mind and curiosity.

remember how trent reznor used to act in '94? completely pissed off, self-destructive, depressed, etc.. especially on stage. well, in '00 he was different. why? because he changed. that's my point. people change, accept it.

[verisimilitude]

you're all a bunch of fucking idiots. no artist sits down and thinks of insanely complex puzzles to confuse their little asinine fans. when you analyze ANYTHING that deeply, you'll come up with some stupid meaning to some obscure detail that, in the real world, doesn't exist. i could sit down and analyze a linkin park cd for five hours and come up with some spectacular hidden meaning that just doesn't exist in real life. the only reason i'd see it is because i so badly wanted to find something deeper in it that i created something that wasn't there before. and about this james hubert business, i'm sure maynard legally changed his name to maynard james keenan, because, hey, who wants "hubert" ANYWHERE in their name? and, as dissociation said, he used that name for a perfect circle. explain that one.

and one more thing. in your disgusting display of "deep" over-analyzation you completely forgot about the lyrics themselves. "over-thinking, over-analyzing separates the body from the mind..."

[dan]

Fifth:

First of all, I notice many of your snippets of lyrics are wrong. you can't base an entire theory off of faulty material.

while you have shown some mysterious connections between the songs and tool (specifically maynard), it just seems rediculous to think that all tool has to occupy their time is to think of conspiracies to confuse and mislead their fans.

Originally posted by verisimilitude
"over-thinking, over-analyzing separates the body from the mind..."

word.

[Synthemesk]

Fifth:

Definitely an insightful analysis....but probably alittle too deep. All of Tools albums especially Lateralus and Salival(but also Aenema and Undertow) show that TOOL put extreme amounts of time and dedication in their work. As for deep, complex patterns I would tend to doubt. After September 11, people came out with all sorts of weird numerological patterns(11=two towers, 9/11=911,etc) Some things are I'm sure planned(like the rhythm to Lateralus:7,8,9) and others coincidental. In my other post I made a comment on taking things at face value. Just like anything else, you need to "blend and balance" between being analytical and superficial, both have their values and setbacks.

Well that's all i gotta say for now. Keep thinking and questioning!

[Cracker]

Quite clever and funny, but do you honestly believe this? I think they are far too innovative, skillful and influentual for this to be true. And you're picking out single lines out of context from his lyrics, which I think are far to deep and meaningful to be part of an elaborate prank.


HANG ON! I HAVE IT!

If we get the name of their band, Tool, and we say that constanants represent female and vowels represent male. we get the males next to one another. therefore, with out a doubt Maynard is a flaming homosexual. Do you want more evidence? Their choice of letters can be arranged into an abstract penis shape.

[RNS]

Having read what you have written i must say i was amused for a while , even though it's complete bollocks, it took up 5 minutes of my insanely boring day at work. Thinking about something is good , analysing something can be good, over analysing is stupid- come on are you really that bored and dissatisfied with your own life that you would spend so much time deeply psycho-analysing a man you've never met ? get a grip , ok we all think Tool are a great band, they are,but you're missing a key part of what the band is all about - for me Tool is about music that inspires you to escape the banality of life for a while, it's soothing and at times emotional and inspiring, depending on the mood YOU are in. I don't read any underlying message of doom or the occult or any of that shit in Tool, I hear an amazing drummer pieced with an amazing vocalist and lyricist backed up by simple, but perfectly complimenting Guitar and Bass, remember its about the MUSIC at the end of the day, they are a BAND after all. Listen to Hooker with a Penis if you're so obsessed with lyrics- Maynard tells all the indepth secrets and mystery of Tool in that song - they are VERY good at making people buy records.If Maynard went on Oprah Winfrey tomorrow i wouldn't care , i'd still buy his music, (if it was good), the whole mystery thing is a marketing ploy, with the added bonus that the band members don't have to do shitty promo work. They are lucky- how many bands or celebrities would kill to be able to make the sorts of profits Tool do basically from word of mouth ? ok thats my opinion for you- do yourself a favour , realise that Maynard is just a man , like everyone else,but with a really good voice, use your brain , use your own mind and "question authority" question Tool.

[rickiep00h]

Okay. I admit it, I tried this tracklist, and it DID flow unusually well.

I'll even allow for the fact that Pink Floyd had the whole "Enigma" thing.

HOWEVER

If they wanted it to be one big spiral, they would have mastered/mixed it better so things flowed. It's possible to do that, you know. Look at The Wall and the beginning of In the Flesh and the end of Outside the Wall.

While the new tracklist sheds new light on the listening experience, I hardly think it was a conscious decision by the band. And on top of that, I really don't think that it would have anything to do with Maynard anyway, because, hey, it's just a different tracklist. It's not changing the meaning of the songs, or the album as a whole.

And I agree with dissociation, what about Adam? Or Danny? Or Justin? Maynard's hardly an enigma. He's just a man.

[flipmojo]

that was interesting fifth. it raises alot of questions though (as you can read from the replies). some of that may be true, but even if it is, what importance does all that have for us? if he is experimenting with different personalities, why should we know about it when experiencing his part of the art? So we can have his experience? i thought Tool encouraged individuality and self-development. you do seem to be very creative with the similarities you have found though. i bet the government would love to have you look at code. i hear they pay big for that? :o)

this is an open "opinion" board so keep posting your thoughts. i enjoyed reading them.

[moto-xxx]

To say maynard is a schitzo is too deprive him of his true artistic ability. I mean gimme a break, you think maynard could play it off all these years in front of thousands of ppl and knowone would know YEA RIGHT! Ive known ppl with schizophrinea and they act quite eraddic and unreasonable. Whats to stop him from having one of his episodes right on stage. Trust me if he was a schizto you and everybody else would know you cant hid something like that. Now when you say he is talkin about canceling out one of his personas or struggling to keep one intact I believe he is speaking of crushing hes ego and the letting his spirit free. THe lines between reason and the abstract that bind. To let your true mind FREE you must first kill off the old one. You must let go of everything and be a hollow tube for energy to flow freely through otherwise infinity would not touch you with a ten foot pole. When the true spirit of man is free the unconceivable becomes conceivable.

Certain things in your life matter to your beacause theyre important; your acts are certainly important to you, but for me, not a single thing is important any longer, neither my acts nor the acts of any of my fellow men. I go on living though because I have my will. Because I have tempered my will through out my life until its neat and wholesome and now it doesnt matter to me that nothing matters. my will contols the folly of my life.

[sundryan]

Fifth, please spare us your spam-o-licoius posts filled with nonsense. If I have to see another plug for your inane ramblings about all the secret connections and deeper meanings of Maynard/Tool I'm going to explode. Your theory is so full of holes that I won't even begin to argue against it. You can have the satisfaction of knowning that we are all intellectually inferior and cannot comprehend the vastness of Tool's secret message.

Synthemesk, you ripped the words right out of my keyboard. I had posted something very similar to your response in another thread Fifth had started. I thought I was the only one tired of seeing this, but judging by the response, I'm not alone.

http://skepdic.com/lawofnumbers.html

"That a particular specified event or coincidence will occur is very unlikely. That some astonishing unspecified events will occur is certain. That is why remarkable coincidences are noted in hindsight, not predicted with foresight."

--David G. Myers

[bottom_feeder99]

.....Because you didn't figure this out first....I think that his theory is a damn good one and you guys need to open up you mind a bit. Isn't that what Tool and music is about interpreting things differently and Sharing your opinions. I think The Song "spiral" thing is very cool and I really don't think all the songs would fit so well together un-less the did it on purpos....anyway guys relaxe on him give him a break plus it's the coolest Tool thing I've heard in a while...

E-mail me with your comments

[email protected]

[Braydon]

Maynard is a true artist in my view and i dout very much that he would be (insane?) this band has touched me but to single him out would be terrible shame for this to me is almost saying the other members suck which is a lie. Genius in music is different to any other field because whether other people come to the realiseation that you are one, you need two thing which are completly out of anyones control they are Time, where the worlds at.Could you image tool being consinders brillient in the 50's or Nirvana in the 20's. And 2) what you would call fate what would happen if Danny hadn't of joined or/and Adam left instead of Paul oh what a different band we would have. Yes you looking to deep my friend way to deep.

[Fifth]

Just putting out what I found and I know I would be saying exactlly the same as some of you about over analysing, patterns in everything etc.. The biggest problem with this is that you don't know me, none of you do, if you did you would understand I'm fully aware of the points your making.

You've read what I've put up and all I'm asking is for you to stay open to this possibility to what tool could be about, not to necessarily believe it. To fully understand something you can't be told it you need to experince it. Keep your eyes open and see what unfolds nothing more.

Fifth

And let me make it quite clear, tool is about four people, they are all as important as each other, Maynard is the "tool" for James, Adam, Danny and Justin to use artistically. Its not a one man show..

"Belief in others is natural, belief in yourself unlocks the secret of the soul"

[Braydon]

yes tool is about four people, okay five but maynard is his own and to say the others the members use him as the tool artistically is foolish. tool is not about four people use one man to be creative and if i am wrong then all the songs ticks & leeches etc, are not about anyone but those four people using maynard for themselves.
have you not read the artical at the begining where maynard is saying he gets angry when people don't think for themselves and dout very much tool would still be around if maynard told the other members how to act, dress and play.
it seems to contradicted itself

[Fifth]

I think you may of got me wrong slightly there, I'm saying that the character Maynard is used by the four of them, no one person is in control, they all are. Maynard is created by them in a way, like I said as a artistic tool.

Something for people to try, on the Aenima version of Pushit near the end when "Theres no love in fear" is sung a few people are convinced Maynard actually says this...

"Staring down the hole again.
Hands upon my back again.
Survival is my only friend.
Terrified of what THEY CALL HIM"

The call is sung with a pause then him is sung quietly, c what u here...

At the start of h

"What's coming through is alive.
What's holding up is a mirror.
But what's singing songs is a snake (IT IS)
Looking to turn this piss to wine"

The "It is" part is not on any lyrics I've read but its deffinatly there and one from the song undertow...

"you're saturating me" = "Your such your enemy"

Fifth

[brent]

hey man,
you can tell everyone that disses on you to FUCK OFF!! i read what you had to say about Maynard's persona and was almost upset i hadnt come to that conclusion earlier on my own. wiether it is "right" or "true" doesnt really matter at all. its not like he would ever admit to it anyway. it does give a twist to songs and lyrics that i thought i had allready OVER-analyzed. now there is more shit to think about. when referring to the "secret" lyrics......i hear a lot of them throughout the CD's. and in all honesty, i dont want the band to reveal them. the mystery or enigma is half the fun. in all honestly, i bet maynard gets a kick out all of our analysis-es, but atleast we are trying to see things "in a different light, from different angle.......so that we can hopefully see it like its the first time."

keep up the insightfull shit, man. i enjoy reading it.


-s p i r a l - o u t - k e e p - g o i n g-

[a_divine_martyr]

if we can have this big of a discussion on tool, let's create one on REO Speedwagon! HELL YEAH!

seriously, tool is a band. and i enjoy discussing meaning of their songs and such, however, this has gone way too far. i enjoy reading it but my god, some people need to stop trying to find all this weird secret meaning crap. too complex to just DO. ok let's look at opiate..

1+5=6
2+4=6
3+3=6

OMG! SECRET MEANING AND LOOK! 666! SATANIC ALBUM! and different songs can flow good together with other songs. i mean hell, sweet home alabama and yellow submarine sound good one after another, OGMGOMGOMOM!

i had a bad day...

sorry to overcriticise this

[spook]

These are all only opinions, I think that's the fun part, you can use your own individual intepretation to mold songs as abstract as these to your own situation. Even "Mary had a little Lamb" can mean many different things. It's amusing to hear how much unhealthy amounts of time some people are spending to do that. at least it may serve its purpose by keeping them out of trouble or helping them to while away the time while they ARE incarcerated. Personally, I think Tool is four guys that like to jerk us around at the same time their hands are in our pockets...TOOL is LOOT backwards, anybody want to elaborate on that?

[Fifth]

The thing is that I haven't apent a load of time looking for this, its just been there as I have gone around life, I have much better things to do then spend it doing this for a laugh...

[dissociation]

too bad you're incorrect, huh? stop judging the band/man from what YOU hear. before i ever read the lyrics to "pushit," i heard "terrified of what may come." so what the fuck are YOU listening to? you seem paranoid, if i may state my observation.

[Braydon]

if maynard is all of them.
why is is that HIS first name?
why then isn't the band called Maynard?
Why does his name list as Maynard James Keenan in A Perfect Circle?
Answer these questions.

[Fifth]

If the band was called Maynard then if what I'm saying does have any truth then wouldn't it be obvious? same with using the name Maynard for A.P.C. if he went by James Keenan wouldn't this raise questions?

In music the fans look to the front man so they created "Maynard" to represent them all, taking it away from being about just one person,

#Quote - Paranoid? No just annoyed at the blatency, we choose not to see.

[stagger lee]

lets not be too harsh here. just because someone sees something in a song that others dont is no reason to release the hounds. but i agree that we need to lighten up a little. its like good poetry, any of the meanings attributed to it are possible, but all of them at once? no one has that much time on their hands.

[Ænimic]

well most of the stuff fifth has to say seems like complete bollocks to me.

however, the track listing thing does intriuge me alot; like that other bloke said its by far the coolest tool related thing ive heard in a long long while, even more so given this appears in their latest newsletter:

'This gave Maynard and I (blair) a chance to discuss a few things that will 'spiral out' in the near future.'

interesting...

[6bit]

I am kind of agreeing with Fifth, in a sense. Maynard might be a character name, however, not for the bands to use, but for James.

Maybe James has a bit of stage fright. Maybe he just wants to sever all ties that his stage life has from his real life. He created a mask to where on stage, both in a literal sense (paint, name), and an emotional sense (through redirecting the experience to this persona). That would explain why the name followed him to APC. He also wore the wigs for APC, explaining that it was to seperate his 2 identities for fans- on and off stage that is.

It seems a bit like Maynard has always been afraid of the crowd. Sure, he used to be a little more out going in the past- but that could have been the record companies encouraging this behavior -- Think about it, would you want your platinum selling band to have a lead singer who stood in the back of the stage? (mainstream fans want to be able to relate to the singer, not an enigma) Now that they have more of a following, or after the 5 year dispute, maybe they let him have his way.

IT is evident that Maynard wants to avoid the spot light -- simply search the internet for interviews, pictures, etc. They simlpy are hard to find. Over a 10 year career, the man has dodged them left and right. The rest of the band has no problem in the spot light though- just look at Danny and his website.

Anyway, just some thoughts

[2lapcfan]

If I recall correctly, in an interview it was devulged that the pattern Fifth is talking about is correct and was done intentionally. You'd have to be a moron to dismiss anything, Tool is all about symbolism and they stick it in every nook and cranny for you to find, as well as to find it where they didn't intend. Think for yourself.

[Ænimic]

Originally posted by 2lapcfan
Think for yourself.

p/;#oojpavbjopva vsapojv#sajop 09/hqgw ARRGH!

the next person who says think for yourself is gonna make want to put a gun to their head

[betwixt]

how long did tool work on lateralus?

i think they had enough time to think about the order of the tracks and stuff.

about the maynardtheories: the lyrics are written by maynard and only maynard, aren't they? so maybe...
i look on the lyrics on a more general view.
here an example:


"The moon tells me a secret. My confidant.
As full and bright as I am, this light is not my own
A million light reflections pass over me
It's source is bright and endless.
She resuscitates the hopeless"


the moon reflects the light of the sun - we reflect the ppl surrounding us "a million light reflections"

back to the trackorderthing:

Originally posted by dissociation
on nine inch nails' the fragile, a lot of tracks flow differently if they're out of the order they're in already. does this mean trent reznor thought of some puzzle that's really a huge spiral? highly unlikely.


reznor had the fragile finished but it took him another 6 months (or 2 years? i don't remember) to get them into the "correct" order.

ps: what's wrong with separating the body from the mind?

[Jizzlobber]

Hey hey hey… stop this guys. This is an opinion page and I think a lot of you die-hard tool fans are getting defensive over his remark. Hey I like what he is saying, he has thought through this hard, everything is possible so why be so defensive people. I would like to hear more about this. Even though I may not agree I still love to hear heaps more.

[Jizzlobber]

I've been just reading a little more and im starting to believe in this. this is awesome if Tool are doing this. plz say more.

[matthew]

Suicide is the answer.

Find out dictostyliums masking. Yes, sold you.


Followers

[Jizzlobber]

oh i come on to see and read more news but there is none.. oh well..

[Scobularni]

Sometimes analyzing is good, for example the fibonacci sequence in Lateralus - Whoever worked that out is a genius. Yet at the same time, you've got to know when to stop. The track order was a nice idea, but it doesn't all fit together - D/R/T are split up, as are Eon and Patient, not to mention a 2 minute silence in the middle of the album!

Keep exploring, but if your analyzing leads to flawed theories, maybe it's time to move on.

[McBastard]

Im sure that alot of things to do with TOOL are slightly cryptic, and might have undertones etc.

But im not convinced its some big conspiricy/plan, but more a matter of not taking everything so literally.

Im not saying this theory is crap, or wrong. We all have our theorys on what certain songs/albums are about, and most are probably wrong. But who cares? Its a personal thing.

But, this is all a bit like "the bible code"...take every 5th letter from the old testement and it predicts future events etc etc.
Thats all fine and dandy, untill you think about it. Its funy how these 'predictions' arent predictions untill a certain event has happened (EG, apparently, using the code, the bible has references to osama and 9/11...shame noone knew till afterwards).

Also most of the 'tralnslation' is junk. theres only pieces here and there that make sence.

you could get any book, choose any number of letters, and do the same thing and your bound to come up with something recognisable.

its like the old 'dark side of the moon/wizard of oz' thing.

im sure if you wanted to think about it enough, you could come up with a seemingly valid theory that undertow is a secret soundtrack for 'titanic', and amazingly, it was made 6 odd years before the movie.......

spooky

[flipmojo]

Way too many "what if's" in this thread...Try reading it from the beginning and it will stress you out.

No good comes from taking the life out of things. Try listening and feeling more instead of thinking and analyzing.

Don't forget to breathe.

[the_drummar]

I recently acquired a version of the salival pushit live where maynard makes a dedication, his words were,"this songs is a very special dedication, to a very special person, whos come an incredible distance since this song was written, it's not even relevant to this person anymore, we're not even the same people we were when it was written..." I think it could reinforce the theory of pushit being a song about maynards struggle with himself, his counter part is the HER he was talking about(as maynard has a tendency to dress like a woman) and it's interesting in his choice of words when he says" we're not even the same people we were when it was written..." he says we not she.....think about it

[LostQuater]

you can take Eminems lyrics apart and make something out of them....you might be right or wrong...who knows....

[Metatron's Cube]

I cant believe I didnt think of it myself!! I think you are 100% right. In eulogy, "Whats singing songs is a snake, IT IS" for example, in many mythologies snake often guards the entrance to a cave or a pool of water. This water is a common metaphor for truth or wisdom. According to Jung, this pool of water is the collective unconscious, and the snake is the shadow, or the parts of ourselves that are animalistic, that again according to Jung, are the parts of ourselves we should strive to do away with!

You are right on the money with the lyric inconsistencies too! I have heard these lyrics as well, or thought the lyrics on TDN are wrong.

I agree that maynard very likely is a construct of the band. What Im not sure about are the implications of this, maybe the Maynard idea is just something to sing about. Maybe the maynard construct is metaphor for jung's shadow, and just another way for the band to call for spiritual evolution, and maynard is the "Tool" they are using. But I dont agree that if the fans see this, that the band will change or something that you were eluding too fifth. Maybe "Maynard" is just a focus for the spotlights, to draw attention off all of them so no one has to feel left out of the fame. After all, who is the one always dressing and acting crazy on stage, while the rest of the band calmly plays, MAYNARD! The enigmatic, eccentric nut, while the rest of band are calm and reserved, and modest.

And to the rest of you that so harshly dissed this idea, how about a little tact? At least hear the man out and say I agree or I dont, some of those posts got pretty nasty.

[Black Octagon]

Please read this.

I registered just now only because reading all this self-righteous posting made me angry. The following is my (brief) opinion, and after this I shall never post on this board again. So...

1) someone said something like this, "the next person who says 'think for yourself' is gonna make me want to kill something."
Personally, I have to agree. But I will add that the ppl who repeat this quote are not only ANNOYING, but downright ignorant. I don't care what the divine FAQ says, that quote is NOT by Tool nor their 'central message'. It is rightly attributed to Timothy Leary, who incidentally is the guy reading it out at the beginning of Third Eye on Salival. SO SHUT UP WITH IT FFS!
and on that note....

2) I have been humbled and learned the hard way that most ppl do not and can not understand tool. So I say to you all (except the few to whom this does not apply): LISTEN TO TOOL WHEN YOU ARE OFF YOUR TREE ON ACID!!!
By the time Maynard (yes I'm calling him MAYNARD!) has finished his blood-curdling scream on The Grudge you will realise how much of a TOOL you really have been all your life.

good-bye

[48&2]

OK has anyone else noticed the trend that follows in just about every topic in the opinion section?...If for some uncanny reason you haven't, here's how it goes:

1) Topic Posted
2) People discuss topic
3) People find flaws in other peoples posts (ie punctuation, interpretations, layout etc)
4) People start bitching about each other
5) The intellectual battle begins
6) It continues
7) see above
8) People get bored
9) People move to another topic

but then again maybe i'm just 'over-analysing'...which by the way 'seperates the body from the mind'.....dammit some of you quote lyrics until they turn into meaning-less cliches....

OK I'm done.

[Over The Rainbo]

1. All you people that have criticized Fifth for an idea, an opinion, something the majority of you think you deserve to show, but from i have seen you dont and your aggression towards Fifth is childish and unecessary. His opinion has a point based on what he believes in and the rest of you are taking a stand on what you believe in. the fact of the matter is that we really don't as much as we think and everybody on this post needs to calm down and take a good look at what fifth is trying to say

now that i got that out i will move on.

i agree with fifth in that Maynard is just a persona, a way to look at the reactions of others and get a good laugh at the over-imaginative masses expense. Just a way of being inside on the outside so to speak. the persona is a sheid from the ignorant and james is a sancturary to those who open thier minds to what can be made out of the human mind and is the hope that Fifth speaks of, the hope for mankind. i think alot of tool is just simply realizing potential and using it.

[kukuelani]

okay there!

good insight but that's just a bit beyond me. reading too far into psychology but hey it was an interesting read.

Quesiton:

If Maynard is just a stage name, does all this same stuff apply to APC and their music?

[kukuelani]

Originally posted by Cracker
HANG ON! I HAVE IT!

If we get the name of their band, Tool, and we say that constanants represent female and vowels represent male. we get the males next to one another. therefore, with out a doubt Maynard is a flaming homosexual. Do you want more evidence? Their choice of letters can be arranged into an abstract penis shape.

I'm not entirely sure if Cracker was being fecitious (sp?) or what... all I know is that Maynard has a son named Devo.

awwwwwwwww!!!!!

[kukuelani]

Originally posted by Metatron's Cube
I cant believe I didnt think of it myself!! I think you are 100% right. In eulogy, "Whats singing songs is a snake, IT IS" for example, in many mythologies snake often guards the entrance to a cave or a pool of water.

Was a good insightful post, but I believe the song you're talking about is h. S'okay though, I understand that sometimes ppl just are blazing with an opinion and just gotta get it down and oh god just can't wait and then post and... whups! typo ;)

(not as bad as when a reporter in my area reported one of the songs at their concert the night before to be "4 seconds" ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!)

[Kheradruakh]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by verisimilitude
[B]you're all a bunch of fucking idiots


I see.
It did say at the start of this opinion section that these are your own views, now i dont share Fifths views but can you please either criticise with a civil tongue in your head, or wind your bloody neck in, people actually read these things and dont wish to read your swearing about what you think of someone else.

[Systolic]

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

How on Earth can you people criticize fifth's opinion???
I like that idea honestly, and I think he's brilliant for soming up with that. It makes perfect sense as well. Don't get mad at him for coming up with a better idea than what you have.

Oh, and about the "think for yourself" quote.. Yes its a great quote, and yes its over used.. but look.. this is what pisses me off..
Everytime some DOES think for his or herself that person gets SHOT DOWN!

Take fifth for example.... poor guy... I have sympathy for you.

[Fifth]

While I'm here I want to say what the Tool Enigma isn't and where I'm coming from with it....

1. Maynard represents the wall people put in front of them to stop people connecting with others, James being the true person.

2. The members of tool arn't anything but normal people creating art with a message. Look at it like that and even at that level you can see as an artistic venture what they have done would be worth doing.

3. This Enigma runs along side what tool have been doing, there music is multi-meaning and holds diffirent meaning to each of us, the enigma being true doesn't change that, its an underlining base.

4. tool where great Bill Hicks fans, to see why they would have a kinda "test" in there works, why they would bother with all this go download and listen to a Bill Hicks show.

5. I agree you can find patterns in things but that is not how this presented itself to me and the others in my town, it came to us, not us to it and this happened over many months.

I think that covers it, I'll edit this post if I can think of anything else to add.

I'm not going to be around so much, I'm in training at the moment to become an instructor in G-K-R Karate and I also have my band, so my free time has dwindled. Theres more then enough here to show what the enigma is about so that doesn't really matter anyway.

Thanks to everyone whos posted up in this forum whatever your views, for or against this theory like I've said before, its all good.

Peace

Fifth

[ignore-reality]

interesting thoughts on lyric differences but didn't maynard actually write in the lyrics at one point to a (this?) website........maybe im mistaken, i thought i read that somewhere

[forkedpath]

i can surely see where some of those connections could be made, but i really find it hard to believe that all of the examples fifth gave relate entirely and revolve around maynard. while of course this is just my opinion, it seems like the music indicates that its about much more than the members producing it. while it might relate to something that occured in his life, more importantly its supposed to relate to us all. isnt that the greatest thing about tool? just from a few powerful notes and well-chosen words we all seem to recall an event or emotion?

id also agree entirely that james is one side and maynard is another, but really arent any lead men of bands? how often do we, or do they want us, to see any further than whats projected through their voice and lyrics? "all you know about mes what i sold you". thats all we know.