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Bullet
11-19-2002, 02:53 AM
What is this song about? IMO it is about U.S.A and its politics.
"You lie, cheat and steal yet I tolerate you"
The government of U.S lies, cheats and steals, and to keep in mind that Maynard is an ex-marine (right?) and there is that oath, it shows that he obeys the one who does what is forbidden. So he is a tool of a liar. "Do what I say not what I do."



-Bullet-

grtrthnone
11-19-2002, 05:50 AM
fyi: maynard was not a marine he went to an army school hence the motto lie cheat steal

HoldYourLight11
11-19-2002, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by grtrthnone
fyi: maynard was not a marine he went to an army school hence the motto lie cheat steal

"An army school?" You mean West Point? And yes, it was West Point. I believe the creed states- "I will not lie, cheat, steal or tolerate those who do."

...but thats just an approximation.

And also, why does this have to be about the government? Everyone has been in a situation like this, its applicable to anyones life.

grtrthnone
11-19-2002, 09:12 AM
i was thinking west point but couldnt remember so didnt wanna make an arse of myself. i dont really think it has to do with the gubment and i definately think it is a much more personal song than that, aside from the fact that taking the song word for word in a straight-forward manner it can easily be read as a bad relationship then of course it could take all manner of other meanings depending on the interpretor

The Border Line
11-19-2002, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by HoldYourLight11

And also, why does this have to be about the government? Everyone has been in a situation like this, its applicable to anyones life.

While yeah, there isn't any real evidence to point to the idea of the song being about the government, don't you find it somewhat ironic that while the government lies, cheats, and steals, a governmental institution (the most prestigious in the country, no less) is telling you not to tolerate those who do?

Bullet
11-19-2002, 01:44 PM
Why about government?
"Veil of virtue hung to hide your method
while I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your praise and glory."

That's why.IMHO.

ClockworkPmpkin
11-19-2002, 05:46 PM
With alot of other Tool songs , I think that this one deals with a relationship or a situation between two individuals. While he tries to be kind and tolerant of someone's baltant disregard for truth and honor , his nature compels him to speak out against it. And, as always......IMHO.

povvy
11-19-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by ClockworkPmpkin
With alot of other Tool songs , I think that this one deals with a relationship or a situation between two individuals. While he tries to be kind and tolerant of someone's baltant disregard for truth and honor , his nature compels him to speak out against it. And, as always......IMHO.

I recently thought of something different: What if the lyrics "Intolerance" were written with Maynard looking at himself? "I tolerate you..." seems to make more sense if you think of the song as a self-criticism and -reflection.

Patrick.

euthanasia
11-20-2002, 09:12 AM
i really doubt a band like tool with waste their time, and their talent, making a song about something as banal as the goverment.
i mean, goverment...
the song is meanly about you and me, how we often are hipocrates. you, me, all, we are the same thing, humans not saints, guilty not inocent.
(of course the US goverment is a big "lier, cheater and stealer", no one denies that =)

Borris
11-20-2002, 07:47 PM
I agree with you on the point that this song is about self-reflection. We have to admit it that no one has a halo hanging over their head. But all we can do is to try and better ourselves and not make the same mistakes again. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who need to listen to this song and try and follow the virtues of I will not lie, cheat or steal.

a mon avi

Borris

Roach
11-22-2002, 02:28 AM
To me, it could mean any of those. Although it does seem like the song is spoken on a more personal level, so it seems that the self-reflection or between-two-people explaination seems more plausable.

On another note, what about the sound effect at the beginning? In this site's faq, it says that it sounds like a man drowning. My sister thought, though, that it sounds like the noise you sometimes get on a record when it's playing the outer rim, before the first song. What do you think?

ragna16
11-23-2002, 12:34 PM
Sounds a little like someone is trying to start a vacuum cleaner underwater.

I like the self-reflective response best. It also seems a little pessimistic, saying that you can't tolerate yourself because you lack certain arbitrary virtues. If we're not hard on ourselves however, we'd just slip into a criminal destructive void. The question is how criminal do you want to be, how much do you want do change, how good do you need to be before you stop trying to improve your morality.

povvy
11-23-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by ragna16
Sounds a little like someone is trying to start a vacuum cleaner underwater.

I like the self-reflective response best. It also seems a little pessimistic, saying that you can't tolerate yourself because you lack certain arbitrary virtues. If we're not hard on ourselves however, we'd just slip into a criminal destructive void. The question is how criminal do you want to be, how much do you want do change, how good do you need to be before you stop trying to improve your morality.

That's exactly where I was coming from.

Before you can get anything done in life, you have to look in the mirror.

Patrick.

thebigfish
11-24-2002, 01:08 PM
hmm.... i think it's about this guy who's a little paranoia and he can't even trust his own friends... because of course, in his vision. they 'lie, cheat and steal'. he wouldn't be hostile or dismal if it wasn't for this distorted belief in people in general.

Braydon
11-29-2002, 03:41 AM
While this song fits into just about situeation you can think of with two people the reflection idea fits nicely.
as for that noise i think it could be a bong hit which relates to reflection of yourself idea. drug abuse, cause you lie cheat and steal but your driven to it which ties it in with sober and undertow

dissociation
12-06-2002, 12:21 AM
this song is one of the best songs ever (obviously in my opinion). it's so easily interpreted into other situations, especially that of relationships. the whole "i've been far too sympathetic" rant gives me a reason for living: someone else has felt this way too. haha, it's basically all that trent reznor wishes he could say in his albums.

extentions
12-18-2002, 03:49 PM
First of all I think this song is the heaviest song on the album, its full of energy and resolve, certainly different from the other songs on the album. Its interesting that its at the beginning of the album instead of the end.

Anyways...for me this song is about a choice made in a no-choice situation (self-righteous suicide) listen to Chop Suey by SOAD. Its about being fed up with an inner coward or dealing with an inner coward who whines and makes excuses and is self righteous in the end of it all. Maynard is referring to his own ego who claims all the glory while lying and cheating (classic double standard) and him just praising it. He tries to fight and when he realizes that its really a part of himself and how dillusional and dangerous it is, he sings 'I must lay down beside you, no-one is innocent'

His ego screams innocence to justify its own criminal and selfish behaviour, and he in turn wants to fight it by screaming that no-one is innocent. He is also fighting because in the long-run its draining the blood right out of him 'Our blood, our fault, I've been far too sympathetic'

He can longer tolerate and give in to an entity that claims the glory when its preception of reality is misconstrued and ultimately expensive and wrong.

I believe that Maynard (and I don't mean to pry or depersonalize his experiences) is dealing with a negative ego, an ego that was supposed to enter into this world as a useful tool for self-expression, but instead was battered by early childhood abuse and trauma. A child treated improperly learns to see the world in a very dark way. Its equivalent to locking him/her in a dark box with wheels and an inner remote control. His extinctual self is trapped and he/she lives their lives as a machine operated by societal opinions and instructions. I think this is the way people lash out against a society full of tired people who have given up the fight against conformity and the lack of creativity.

Praising a negative ego is the same as giving in to apathy and self-vampirism. The singer is a reasonable person who has been to this point sympathetic, patient and understanding, yet now he/she has run out of patience and can no longer trust an ego whose only purpose is to fool and laugh while sucking the life out of its host.

I enjoy this song because of its high energy and encouraging sense of straight forward compassionate resolve. I also relate very much and hope that I can learn to leap with courage and fight the same entity within that seems to cause me the same degree of distress and illness.

Thanks for the incredible and enlightening music.

Cryptoanarchist
01-11-2003, 06:01 AM
IMHO this song is about gettin frustraited with people who "lie cheat and steal" to their own advantage and at the same time screw up society. The reason people cant leave there doors unlocked or just trust people to do the right anymore.

"I don't want to be hostile.
I don't want to be dismal."
I think means i dont want to have to be so negative towards you them.
"and i don't want to rot in our pathetic existance " i dont want to be in this pathetic\corrupted society.
"See
I want to believe you,
and I want to trust you
and I want to have faith to put away the dagger." I think the daggar represents his defence. He wants to trust people and relax but he knows if he does that he will be used.

" I am not innocent.
You are not innocent.
Noone is innocent."
i think means even though i dont like you or your ways i am still human just like you or something similar.

Im probably wrong again and someone will come along and say something making more sence but thats what i got out of it.

BTW extensions i love SOAD aswell but i didnt understand what you said very well. Ill try reading it again after i get a good nights sleep.

Cryptoanarchist
01-12-2003, 11:16 PM
ahh now i get it. Good points i never looked at it that way. This is a very educational place.

DXRocker73
01-14-2003, 10:01 AM
Those are indeed good pints, I always thought the song was of a relationship that we've all seen and hated, until I heard the motto of West Point, then I wasn't sure, but this puts and indeed higher thought on this song.

What if the song, is about all of what y'all said? A relationship, individually, with a group, and with self?

Maybe it's about rough relationships in general, with everybody and everything? Not wanting to be hostile, but not wanting to tolerate.

iampete
02-16-2004, 03:13 AM
as i see it...it's just interpretation and agreeing on the one you personally feel the most. There is no right or wrong answer. The music is unbelievable and it doesn't matter what Maynard was thinking when he wrote it.

DON IOTAE
12-15-2006, 07:26 PM
This song is fuckin amazing.

The simplicity of the melody really enhances the raw power of the song. I'm of the personal opinion that MJK's voice sounds best in this album and this song is proof. It's a great, great opener for the album, and after listening to it again after a while, I must say this song fuckin' rocks!

iAMtheMA!
12-15-2006, 07:56 PM
"raw" is a very good word to describe this track.

DON IOTAE
12-16-2006, 06:49 AM
... and compared to the other albums, its a good word to describe undertow.

Cooly
12-26-2006, 01:45 PM
I recently thought of something different: What if the lyrics "Intolerance" were written with Maynard looking at himself? "I tolerate you..." seems to make more sense if you think of the song as a self-criticism and -reflection.

Patrick.

"I really go out of my way to find out what I don't like about people, change you into me, I get some really interesting stuff"
~MJK

Also i think it could be about a feeling where you feel no one can be tolerated because they all lie, cheat, and steal (and more). He feels as if no one deserves his respect because they all sin, yet he tolerates them anyway and gets angry with himself. It's from the view of the person who feel they should not tolerate not the person who should not be tolerated.

mr. nikki jensen
12-28-2006, 02:26 PM
Why about government?
"Veil of virtue hung to hide your method
while I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your praise and glory."

That's why.IMHO.

i bet youre right

Intolerable
12-30-2006, 10:27 PM
This is among my favorite Tool songs (hence the username), probably for the fact that I can connect to it personally.

For the past few years I have hung out with a group of friends who I didn't have much in common with (they hate Tool, for one), and yet I stuck with it because they were "cool" and well liked. While spending time with these people I have seen how they truly are - lying, cheating, and thieving assholes. This realization has come to a head recently, and I no longer spend any time with these people.

Anyway, this song is pretty much the self-reflection that I (or in the songs case, the singer) did regarding they're spending time with the subject.

I don't want to be hostile.
I don't want to be dismal.
But I don't want to rot in an apathetic existance either.
See
I want to believe you,
and I want to trust
and I want to have faith to put away the dagger.

This here reflects the singers attitude while spending time with these people. He desperatley wants to connect with these people, and he does his best to see through their inherint assholeish (don't think that's a word) attitude. This passages shows why the singer continues to spend time with subject, despite all of the obvious faulty traits of the subject.

But you lie, cheat, and steal.
And yet
I tolerate you.

The singer sees all of the problems, all of the faults in the subject of the song, and he for some reason tolerates them, continues to spend time with them. Here the self-reflection begins. He is wondering why he tolerates the, hangs around them, despite the problems. (Lying, cheating and stealing represents the character faults of the subject as a whole)


Veil of virtue hung to hide your method
while I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your praise and glory.
Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma
as I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your glory
while you
lie, cheat, and steal.

The subject is doing even more self-reflection here. He sees how there is some sort of "veil" that hides the true nature of the subject, and how he is (or was) fooled by it (or chooses to not to see through it). He continues to "sing their praise and glory" even while he knows (or attempts to remain ignorant to) their true human nature.

How can I tolerate you.

Boom. This is where it comes to a head. How can he have spent all this time amongst their terrible character, tolerating it the whole time. The self-reflection becomes self-realization - he now realizes that he cannot, and should not have, tolerate(d) the subject.

Our guilt,our blame ,
I've been far too sympathetic.
Our blood, our fault.
I've been far too sympathetic.

He knows now the error of his ways - he has been far to sympathetic and forgiving of all the shit that the subject has caused. He has put up with it for far too long.

I am not innocent.
You are not innocent.
Noone is innocent.


The central and most important line(s) of the song. The singer himself is not innocent for putting up with this bullshit for long enough, even going along with it, and the subject certainly isn't innocent.

I went through the process described by this song almost to a tee. That is what this song is about. (according to me, at least).

DON IOTAE
12-31-2006, 09:59 AM
^ excellent post.

Within/Without
01-02-2007, 10:25 AM
^ I agree man. Excellent interpretation

iAMtheMA!
01-17-2007, 07:53 AM
could this have something to do with voluntary simplicity?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_living

(just a thought)

Drr
02-09-2007, 08:54 PM
This is among my favorite Tool songs (hence the username), probably for the fact that I can connect to it personally.

For the past few years I have hung out with a group of friends who I didn't have much in common with (they hate Tool, for one), and yet I stuck with it because they were "cool" and well liked. While spending time with these people I have seen how they truly are - lying, cheating, and thieving assholes. This realization has come to a head recently, and I no longer spend any time with these people.

Anyway, this song is pretty much the self-reflection that I (or in the songs case, the singer) did regarding they're spending time with the subject.

I don't want to be hostile.
I don't want to be dismal.
But I don't want to rot in an apathetic existance either.
See
I want to believe you,
and I want to trust
and I want to have faith to put away the dagger.

This here reflects the singers attitude while spending time with these people. He desperatley wants to connect with these people, and he does his best to see through their inherint assholeish (don't think that's a word) attitude. This passages shows why the singer continues to spend time with subject, despite all of the obvious faulty traits of the subject.

But you lie, cheat, and steal.
And yet
I tolerate you.

The singer sees all of the problems, all of the faults in the subject of the song, and he for some reason tolerates them, continues to spend time with them. Here the self-reflection begins. He is wondering why he tolerates the, hangs around them, despite the problems. (Lying, cheating and stealing represents the character faults of the subject as a whole)


Veil of virtue hung to hide your method
while I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your praise and glory.
Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma
as I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your glory
while you
lie, cheat, and steal.

The subject is doing even more self-reflection here. He sees how there is some sort of "veil" that hides the true nature of the subject, and how he is (or was) fooled by it (or chooses to not to see through it). He continues to "sing their praise and glory" even while he knows (or attempts to remain ignorant to) their true human nature.

How can I tolerate you.

Boom. This is where it comes to a head. How can he have spent all this time amongst their terrible character, tolerating it the whole time. The self-reflection becomes self-realization - he now realizes that he cannot, and should not have, tolerate(d) the subject.

Our guilt,our blame ,
I've been far too sympathetic.
Our blood, our fault.
I've been far too sympathetic.

He knows now the error of his ways - he has been far to sympathetic and forgiving of all the shit that the subject has caused. He has put up with it for far too long.

I am not innocent.
You are not innocent.
Noone is innocent.


The central and most important line(s) of the song. The singer himself is not innocent for putting up with this bullshit for long enough, even going along with it, and the subject certainly isn't innocent.

I went through the process described by this song almost to a tee. That is what this song is about. (according to me, at least).

Excellent.... maybe not a group of friends exactly as you experienced... I think more so with our society and this world. I feel his pain.