Third Eye on Acid

[slamminsalmon]

I think this Dave character has taken acid, and the thoughts going on in his mind from rosetta stoned, are really taking place while he is listening to Third Eye. Live or Album

IMO

[Confield]

Makes sense. Maybe it's written from the perspective of one (of many) obsessive Tool fans that go so far as to blindly pursue the members' interests, and while appearing to mock himself, Maynard is really mocking maynardites. I'm sure if that is what they intended with this song it gets deeper more complicated than that (such as, the Overwhelmed section being a way to sort of break the 4th wall and speak his feelings through the character). I'm not sure whether you really mean it, but I find that interesting.

[slamminsalmon]

No, i definitely mean it, but you did a very good job of putting some of my thoughts into words.

maynardites i like lol

but the whole, becoming the chosen one, and wut not. sounds like the ramblings of an unexperienced average "joe toolhead", who has never done acid.

and as forgeting your pen....

i've had so many GENIUS thoughts listening to live tool shows, while on lsd or shrooms. Those thoughts would flow through me like water, remembering all was impossible. remembing 4 or 5 was a mere feat.

i can relate to this character Dave, except in his case, its more extreme than myself.


ive had the chosen one effect before, but it was more of something that appeared and vanished as soon as i started thinking about it longer.

[Jimmeny]

hm, maybe Third Eye on acid.

Or just maybe a load of deliberately copied riffs.

[Confield]

The Third Eye-ish riff is certainly not the same. It is in 11/4 time, is played over a very different background and atmosphere, is an octave lower, and the melody is as follows:

D A E F C D D A E F C

Third Eye is in 6/4 time (though they skip around sometimes) and the melody goes like this:

D D E D C D

This supposed "copy" interconnects with all of the other bass and guitar riffs in Rosetta Stoned--though not as brilliantly as the riffs in the other songs are interlaced.

As far as "riffs (plural)", it's the only riff I hear that I think has any unusually strong similarity to an older song and may be a variation meant to resemble Third Eye for the sake of the story. Also, I hear The Grudge and Reflection in this song as well. It is very unlikely that Tool would delibaretely put as much work into crafting all of these songs (Rosetta, Wings, and Right in Two are especially intricate), as I have realized myself in breaking down every bit of every song on many sheets of paper (the fine tuning that seems to have gone into this album is outrageous), that Tool would soil it with a desperate act such as plagiarizing themselves. I notice similarities to previous tracks with Right in Two and Vicarious, but these are entirely woven in with the material, whereas the obvious references to The Grudge and Reflection are clearly slapped on to Rosetta for reasons made obvious by the self-parodying lyrics.

I've caught a few moments on Lateralus that really sounded like Aenima, and moments on Aenima that I sound similar to parts of Undertow (Yes, I can back that up); it just happens as songs develop, and happens to many artists. It merely shows the limits of their creative pallete as a collective. The fact that they allow those songs to develop as far as they do without trying to blatantly cover up any slight similarities to previous works shows true artistic integrity, in my opinion, because they are dedicated to discovering the true nature of the song and not with upholding a reputation.

[mjkajdcjc]

Makes sense. Maybe it's written from the perspective of one (of many) obsessive Tool fans that go so far as to blindly pursue the members' interests, and while appearing to mock himself, Maynard is really mocking maynardites. I'm sure if that is what they intended with this song it gets deeper more complicated than that (such as, the Overwhelmed section being a way to sort of break the 4th wall and speak his feelings through the character). I'm not sure whether you really mean it, but I find that interesting.

Your idea makes more sense to me than his. This album isn't just about drugs; between this and "The Pot", everyone here should stop, take a deep breath, and get passed the drug references this album uses.

[brotherlordacid]

My take on this is that Maynard/Tool are sick of 'the message' , they've said all there is to say on the subject. Rosetta Stoned's meaning (at least to me ) is Maynard saying : " look! I gave you the message! *refer to 3d eye* THIS is what you're doing with it"

And just for shits and giggles ofcourse, I find this song to be hilarious.

[Confield]

Your idea makes more sense to me than his. This album isn't just about drugs; between this and "The Pot", everyone here should stop, take a deep breath, and get passed the drug references this album uses.

Well, we really have the same idea; we both think the Third Eye-ish riff is in fact a part of the storyline and alludes to Third Eye while still being a true component of the song (and really, it's its own riff that is only like the Third Eye riff on the surface; the music in LKRS was written before Maynard got involved, so I think this 11/4 section was created out of the rest of the song to resemble Third Eye rather than the other way around so that the whole song could remain as intricately connected as it is; I can't imagine it being difficult to do so, although it would be require just as much dedication to refine and craft into it's own piece as for any other song), because this tripping maynardite obviously listens to a lot of Tool, and is probably doing so in this song while off doing things that Tool are interested in (or simply tripping on Acid, or both). Third Eye may have been chosen for the parody simply because some people take the lyrics way too seriously, and because the title Rosetta Stoned is a play on people who consider themselves psychonauts and think they can find divine truth through drug use; it would only make sense to site this song, if any, in the parody. Tool fans are notorious for this blind, obsessive behaviour and I think it's pretty awesome that Tool would make fun of it.

[Jimmeny]

I've caught a few moments on Lateralus that really sounded like Aenima, and moments on Aenima that I sound similar to parts of Undertow (Yes, I can back that up); it just happens as songs develop, and happens to many artists. It merely shows the limits of their creative pallete as a collective. The fact that they allow those songs to develop as far as they do without trying to blatantly cover up any slight similarities to previous works shows true artistic integrity, in my opinion, because they are dedicated to discovering the true nature of the song and not with upholding a reputation.

Yeah. Maybe. I don't think you're right though.

For a start, Rosetta, for a fact, uses the same electronic clap as The Grudge. Now, I do not mean to imply this is a bad thing, but if you didnt want a listener to instantly recall The Grudge, you wouldn't use exactly the same electronic sample. And then just because that section is in 3 rather than in 4 like in The Grudge, doesn't mean that it's therefore not deliberate - of course it's deliberate.

Also, early on in Rosetta, there's the same sweeping synth as found on Reflection. The same reasoning can be applied - if they didnt want us to think of Reflection, they would not have used exactly the same electronic sample.

The idea I suggest here, then, is that they are deliberately putting odd shadows of their older songs in 10K Days.

There's the incredibly obvious (and out of place) synth in Intension that plays the same riff as Eon Blue Apocalypse. The fact it's in a different key is completely irrelevent because all keys are relative and without the context of the two songs, it doesn't matter - it's simply the Eon Blue Apocalypse riff in the key of Intension.

Again, it's so obvious, I don't understand why people refute its existance.

Well, actually, I DO understand; people are automatically thinking: 'Well if he's suggesting they are copying themselves, he's clearly wrong because that flies in the face of everything I believe Tool to be!'

So, I suggest it again - These riffs are there, deliberately used, rephrased, repositioned to fit into the context of the new songs, as DELIBERATE shadows of older songs. That's still artistic integrity.

Infact, if you guys turn out to be right and, for example, the meaningless copy of Eon Blue Apocalyse is infact completely by chance and the Tool boys missed it, I think that's worse - they'll have got to the stage where they can't hear them copying themselves.

No - by the same token of appreciation that you hold for Tool, I use it too - I appreciate just how talented as creators and musicians they are, that they will ALWAYS know when they are copying themselves, and that all of this is deliberate.

By you guys rejecting these intensional rephrases, I feel you are actually refuting a facet of the point of 10,000Days. It's supposed to be reflective, introspective, even sentimental. At it is so, musically as well as lyrically.

[Confield]

I'm not saying the allusions in Rosetta aren't intentional, I'm saying that about the other songs (which is in the paragraph you argued against). Read this:

...the obvious references to The Grudge and Reflection are clearly slapped on to Rosetta for reasons made obvious by the self-parodying lyrics.

Well, we really have the same idea; we both think the Third Eye-ish riff is in fact a part of the storyline and alludes to Third Eye while still being a true component of the song (and really, it's its own riff that is only like the Third Eye riff on the surface; the music in LKRS was written before Maynard got involved, so I think this 11/4 section was created out of the rest of the song to resemble Third Eye rather than the other way around so that the whole song could remain as intricately connected as it is; I can't imagine it being difficult to do so, although it would be require just as much dedication to refine and craft into it's own piece as for any other song), because this tripping maynardite obviously listens to a lot of Tool, and is probably doing so in this song while off doing things that Tool are interested in (or simply tripping on Acid, or both). Third Eye may have been chosen for the parody simply because some people take the lyrics way too seriously, and because the title Rosetta Stoned is a play on people who consider themselves psychonauts and think they can find divine truth through drug use; it would only make sense to site this song, if any, in the parody. Tool fans are notorious for this blind, obsessive behaviour and I think it's pretty awesome that Tool would make fun of it.

We only disagree on the intentions behind the similarities in other songs. Also I never really thought of EBA when I heard Intension (honestly, I was reminded of a recent, horrid NIN single). I believe the similarities there are a result of developing the songs, it just happened that way because it's the same people developing it. The fact that they release the songs anyway, even after pushing them so far and realizing that they get similar results in parts, shows true artistic dedication to discovering the true nature of the songs, and shows that they aren't concerned with whether people will accuse them of being lazy.

Also, your original post made it seem like you believed Tool thought they could just copy older material and no one would realize it, which I don't agree with.

[slamminsalmon]

well put jimmeny

or in short "tool knows wut they are doing"

[stevejols]

My take on this is that Maynard/Tool are sick of 'the message' , they've said all there is to say on the subject. Rosetta Stoned's meaning (at least to me ) is Maynard saying : " look! I gave you the message! *refer to 3d eye* THIS is what you're doing with it"

And just for shits and giggles ofcourse, I find this song to be hilarious.

Exactly what I thought!

[stevejols]

my fav thing to do while eating acid is to eat acid..... confusing... this concept sorta eats itself but tool has made allusions to that