The End.

[Tintenfisch]

Maybe.

I have three possible interpretations of this track. I only like two.

1) This is just a simmer-down, stop boiling over, take it easy track after the maddening depression of Right in Two.

2) This is a hint of what will be on the next album (like Third Eye to Lateralus). The problem here is that there is nothing actually on this track but atmospheric noise. The next Tool album will most probably not just be windy sounds. Viginiti Tres is 23, and, as I'm sure most of you have already discovered, the Mayan calendar (Which is only about seventeen seconds off and continues today since like 1300 years or something) predicts the end of the world on December 23, 2012. Maybe the next album will be about the apocalypse. Dunno.

3) I hate this idea, but as Viginit Tres corresponds to The End, what if the next album will be Tool's End? Or worse yet, was THIS album The End?

[benjamin]

I agree w/ answer # 2

...but between R.S. & Jambi. I'll explain.

I liken it to 'Faaip de' in the middle of the Holy Gift<tm) ...now this is, so far, a brainstorm, "...I listen to the 'Holy Gift' and feel like I've just seen a great sci-fi flick. It starts with turn-o-the-century enlightenment; Parabol/a, Schism. To the pre-2012 chaos, & peak awareness; Tics and Leeches, Mantra, Lateralus. Through an 'end of days' scenario, and post-apocalyptic vision; Faaip de, The Grudge, Triad. Finally perhaps, how someone(last few, maybe) might think to 'wait it out', be patient, 'watch the weather ...change.' "

...OK, so that's my take on the Holy Gift. Here's my take on 10k Days/a reason for Viginti Tres:

Disposition-
Intension-Vicarious-LipanConjuring-LostKeys-RosetaStoned-VigintiTres.-Jambi-Right inTwo-Wings-10k-ThePot.

...the last, to the middle, again. I'll first have to address the fact that I've split Int. and Right in. But, if you delete the tiny silence at the begin of Vicarious, the feedback from Int. does sound like the intro chords of Vi. Also, Intension and Right in Two, sound like they flow together in lyric, but I feel they are actually a mirror image. Just picture, Intension is "theory of evolution" and Right in Two is "inteligent design". I thought that this divided the album into 2 halves (!!) MJKs half and Judiths half.

...now, I'm just getting started...sorry I spewed on your post, anyhow, I think VT is a fulcrum upon which the album is split...instead of spiralled!??#!>>>.........

[littlejason]

I agree w/ answer # 2

...but between R.S. & Jambi. I'll explain.

I liken it to 'Faaip de' in the middle of the Holy Gift<tm) ...now this is, so far, a brainstorm, "...I listen to the 'Holy Gift' and feel like I've just seen a great sci-fi flick. It starts with turn-o-the-century enlightenment; Parabol/a, Schism. To the pre-2012 chaos, & peak awareness; Tics and Leeches, Mantra, Lateralus. Through an 'end of days' scenario, and post-apocalyptic vision; Faaip de, The Grudge, Triad. Finally perhaps, how someone(last few, maybe) might think to 'wait it out', be patient, 'watch the weather ...change.' "

...OK, so that's my take on the Holy Gift. Here's my take on 10k Days/a reason for Viginti Tres:

Disposition-
Intension-Vicarious-LipanConjuring-LostKeys-RosetaStoned-VigintiTres.-Jambi-Right inTwo-Wings-10k-ThePot.

...the last, to the middle, again. I'll first have to address the fact that I've split Int. and Right in. But, if you delete the tiny silence at the begin of Vicarious, the feedback from Int. does sound like the intro chords of Vi. Also, Intension and Right in Two, sound like they flow together in lyric, but I feel they are actually a mirror image. Just picture, Intension is "theory of evolution" and Right in Two is "inteligent design". I thought that this divided the album into 2 halves (!!) MJKs half and Judiths half.

...now, I'm just getting started...sorry I spewed on your post, anyhow, I think VT is a fulcrum upon which the album is split...instead of spiralled!??#!>>>.........

didn't you hear? They talk about it in another post somewhere on the board, Maynard said in an interview that there's no alternate track listing to Lateralus. That and this album doesn't even need to be re-organized. It comes full circle on its own. From the music to the meaning and all around. Vicarious is about the fall of man and funny bein' so is Right In Two, even the music has similarities towards the end of both songs.

As far as apocalyptic theme to the next record goes, it's a grand idea but i don't think it'll be the next record. My hope is that they release another record in 2 or 3 years and the record after THAT will come out in 2012 and have an apocalyptic theme. That'd be neat.

[bbeyer]

lateralus did have alternate track arrangment. i read that tool gave some of these laterlalus cd's with the alternate track listings to their close friends only

viginti tres to me is just a really cool creepy sounding track. neat way to end the disc i think.
i actually just made a "halloween sounds" mix to play outside for the trick or treaters and i found that several Tool tracks ( Faaip de Oiad, Viginti Tres, ions, and i copied all the stuff off their parabola and schism DVDs beacause those sounded real cool too. even the audio that plays while you are searching the menus) work great for that kind of vibe. hopefully i'll scare the crap out of some kids.

anyway we arent here to talk about trick or treating! i'll shut up now

[EssnayRepXTamEt]

imho, the whole "end track determines what will happen on the next album" is bullshit. Christ, Triad is NOTHING like 10k days, Third Eye is like Lateralus, only by coincidence, Flood or Distgustipated is nothing like AEnima, and Opiate/hidden track is nothing like Undertow... so yeah... I don't understand... and probably never will.

[tensecondsdown]

Think of it this way, Maynard had a mowhawk when Tool put their first album out, now he has a mowhawk again. I think 10,000 days just might be their last album.

[14thDosage]

imho, the whole "end track determines what will happen on the next album" is bullshit. Christ, Triad is NOTHING like 10k days, Third Eye is like Lateralus, only by coincidence, Flood or Distgustipated is nothing like AEnima, and Opiate/hidden track is nothing like Undertow... so yeah... I don't understand... and probably never will.

Eh, I don't really think that Third eye is like Lateralus, but ill be damned if there isnt a huge connection between flood and Aenima

[jonboy]

[QUOTE=Tintenfisch;1497035]The problem here is that there is nothing actually on this track but atmospheric noise.

Thats not correct

[lizbiz]

Thats not correct

Care to elaborate?

[jonboy]

Care to elaborate?

http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=54923

[EssnayRepXTamEt]

Eh, I don't really think that Third eye is like Lateralus, but ill be damned if there isnt a huge connection between flood and Aenima

I see no connection.
Not "sound-wise" anyways...

That's just me...

[jonboy]

Viginiti Tres is 23, and, as I'm sure most of you have already discovered, the Mayan calendar (Which is only about seventeen seconds off and continues today since like 1300 years or something) predicts the end of the world on December 23, 2012. Maybe the next album will be about the apocalypse. Dunno.


I am not shiting on the Mayan calender, and I have heard about their predictions but if thats what is being referenced in this track, why is the title in Latin and what connection does that have to the 12/23/2012 prediction

[lizbiz]

http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=54923

lol! Ironic you were talking about my post... thanks. Was just looking for your interpretation... cheers.

[jonboy]

lol! Ironic you were talking about my post... thanks. Was just looking for your interpretation... cheers.

No problem. Should have done it in the first place, just ran out of time.

[Ænimic4six1]

Think of it this way, Maynard had a mowhawk when Tool put their first album out, now he has a mowhawk again. I think 10,000 days just might be their last album.


he grew a mohawk just to show that its the end of the band?

please,its just for the sake of fashion and that he wants to stand out from the back..he din wear shades back in Opiate-era..

no offence,but that just isn't rational thinking.

[jevons]

Said this three time now, but i can't find the threads. Vigintitres=twenty-three. Viginti Tres = twenty threes. Dig?

[jevons]

Threes like triangles? Threes like Big Macs? Threes like religious allegory?

Oh, it's endless.

And the Mayans called for a ''shift in consciousness,'' how does that mean the end of the world, exactly?

Get inside your hearts.

[Esurient4Truth]

Circles were big back then...so maybe three circles?

Shift consciousness = change in religion perhaps. Isn't religion a formality of the consciousness? so when the "revelation" happens, could the shift be a change to Christianity and the light revealed?

By they way, didn't Maynard like APC better than Tool? I wouldn't be surprised if Tool broke-up. The only reason they don't is because of the massively huge fan base.

[jevons]

Oh. My. God.

Did you just fucking write that? You did. Sir, where you live, is there a contest where you can win a Volvo if you say the dumbest concievable thing on the internet?

If not, retract the statement. Tool will break up because there is nothing left to do except take in some royalties and watch it all come down. 5 great albums, 4 great musicians, 15 or-so years, let's give them a break.

Go read books.

[Esurient4Truth]

Reading some Mark Twain as you speak. No need to criticize EVERYTHING I post. God almighty.

About APC and Tool...
I've read online (and the internet is usually false, so correct me if I'm wrong), that if Tool did break up, then Maynard would reform APC. True nor not?

*I have nothing against tool for those of you that think I'm APC crazy.

[Esurient4Truth]

by the way... I won that Volvo. Pretty nice too.

[Arkham Asylum]

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but I'm pretty sure that 10,000 Days is Tool's last album.

I have other, more biased reasons why I believe that, but one thing that I've heard (it's not necessarily true) was that a 3 record deal was settled upon after the lawsuits between Tool and their label back in the late 1990s (after Ænima).

List of Releases following the lawsuits:
1. Salival
2. Lateralus (and the Schism and Parabola DVDs?)
3. 10,000 Days

Looks like they kept their end of the deal. On the other hand, all of this could mean that they'll make more records but now they're free to leave Volcano and just continue on their own Dissectional label.

[jevons]

The question at hand: does Salival count? Wouldn't they call it a compilation?

And yes, everything will be criticised, i am here to find you, Esurient4Truth, i am your nemesis.

Darknesssesss!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if it doesn't count, this feels like the end, don't it?

(not actual insult)
Cut your hair, Esurient, you fucking hippie.
(not actual insult)

Fuck Groucho
(actual insult)

[Esurient4Truth]

Creepy^. I feel stalked now.

So when is the end of the world anyway? Dec 22nd...23rd 2012? Why then? I know it's a Mayan predicament, but how did they come to this conclusion?

[Hodge]

not sure why no one noticed this but
mayans predicted december 21st not the 23rd

[jevons]

Yup.

They call, in their own words, for a ''shift in consciousness.'' Make of that whatever your heart tells you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I see a parking lot,
now it's a peaceful oasis.
This was a Pizza Hut,
now it's all covered in daisies. ---The Talking Heads
------------------------------------------------------------------

So, sure, people will starve, nature will hold ''Man'' accountable for that which it has foolishly denied, the children will find Spirit, move like a flock of birds on the breeze.

And slowly, surely, the sound of tanks will rust and fall silent, the stench of corpses will die. And we will get on with the business of living our lives.

[Esurient4Truth]

Jevons, are you hinting at World Peace? (chuckle.) We are human. We are not angels. As much as anyone wants to believe so, at our state, there can be no world peace.

Say there was no end of the world, and instead a "shift in consciousness..." and humanity continued. In this instance, as we go on with the business of living our lives, there would (actually should be) peace.

Living a life doesn't necessarily mean that people are going to live pure lives. A "shift in consciousness" would mean that humanity (or some other force) would have to rip down what we built and start us over. This would mean the destruction of the current human race and the insertion of a second, "pure" race.

Now, why I say this is immediately questioned by those of you reading. Humans already living on this planet are not pure. I don't care how Allah or Jesus loving you are, you are not pure. What do you watch when your tired bodies are dragged home from work? What do you see on TV? Lies. Sex. Violence. In my belief, a pure race must have no "contact" with these things. Look at us now. Shit, guys come home to work before their wives come home and masturbate to porn. Aldutery happens. Teachers rape little innocent boys. People kill people for no reason. We get drunk. We spread disease. We piss all over your black kettles. We fuck your sisters. We commit suicide. We do drugs. We shoot at cops. We vote for two people we don't even want. We cheat. We are burn our own countries flags. We use religious names in vain. Fuck, we call this race pure? Fuck no. We are not pure by any means.

As soon as we come in contact with a wrongdoing, there's no going back. That piece of life is now embedded in your mind. And once in a while, it'll reappear in a dream, a daydream, a flashback, or some other epiphany or revelation you might have. There's no escaping or forgetting what you've been exposed to.

Pure would mean ultimate peace, and being raised in ultimate peace would mean being raised with no attractions or contact with any "wrong doing".

[jevons]

So you've read Nietszche. Yes, there are always wars, but this planet will die if we keep carrying on like spiritual infants.

I never said anything about angels in men.

The new race comes from the children, people like you and me, people in here (though i may dispise their current foolishness, and mine) who see the flaws of our fathers' way of life. We will not go down with the ship. That is reserved for the loyal, and the Captains.

I do not consider myself a sailor. I swim.

So, keeping in mind i don't claim anything about purity, nothing is pure except the heart, i.e. God, and that will lead to a peaceful world which is in balance.

I would still have to declare war on a stalk of corn in order to survive; same goes for any other living thing. Refer to the Campbell: life feeds on life.

There can still be peace, especially in comparison to what we now have.

[jevons]

The heart is pure, it quiets the torments of the mind, leaving you time to bring more pure thoughts to the world-- despite the fact you are flesh(impure).

Then it lets you weep for your old ways, and the walking dead, some of whom you have fucked, others who have fucked you, some others still who gave birth to you.

Cars can run on pure ethanol.

We built cars.

[Esurient4Truth]

So you've read Nietszche.

I never said anything about angels in men.

There can still be peace, especially in comparison to what we now have.



Honestly, haven't read Nietszche...yet. I may come off as stupid at times, but when I sit down and actually think about what I'm writing, I'm actually half intelligent. I am an observer, much like Mark Twain was. I sit down on my pathetic school desk in the morning and watch as the jocks, the nerds, and the colored (not racial you morons) congregate into their own similar groups. God how life is still segregated...sorry, I don't want to start on a rant.

Anyway...

I personally have a strong interest in angels. I realized you have said nothing of the sort.

Finally, peace can be achieved, sure...but as for a truly pure race, even if peace was achieved, we could not make the mistake of subjecting our offspring to the waste we bathe in daily (if you catch my drift.)

[buzzo]

off-topic, maybe. maybe not.
i live in a little university town in west virginia. in this town we are quite fond of our rails-and-trails (old railroad tracks paved and turned into trails, that people usually drive to, why, ask them. fat asses.). yesterday some friends and i were taking a walk past the environmental protection river project (as railroad tracks usually follow rivers) and within half a mile we (I) was absolutely fucking appaled by what i saw...balls, lots and lots of balls, dirty balls, whisky bottles, beer cans, soda cans, pill bottles, boueys, plastic ice cream cones, and...let's say some even more unsavory pharmaceutical items. the garbage streched along the whole damn river as far as we walked...environmental protection my ass!
which leads us to my question...
where is all this garbage, concrete, cars, buildings, plastic, shit, etc. gonna go after we leave*?

*and i don't mean when we die, i mean when we (all) move back home.
you people are tool dissectional listeners...yall know what i'm talk'n bout!

[buzzo]

oh yeah...why hasn't anyone been talking about the viginti tres 101 thingy?

leapers and jumpers and dmt and such...

[jevons]

What the fuck do you mean, ''back home"?

Plastic will drift around and kill future fish and pigeons.
Concrete will slowly turn into sediment.
The rest wilol find a way to do damage.

What the fuck do you mean, ''back home''?

[Esurient4Truth]

Back home...where he used to live?

[buzzo]

What the fuck do you mean, ''back home"?

Plastic will drift around and kill future fish and pigeons.
Concrete will slowly turn into sediment.
The rest wilol find a way to do damage.

What the fuck do you mean, ''back home''?

home is where the heart is mate

when you were a kid...think back now...when you were a kid do you remember being told that your head is where you think? do you remember a time when you didn't think with your head? i do. i remember having the idea that my thoughts came from my heart. after i was told that simply wasn't true, that's when i started to sink in to the reality i (we) live in now. i remember afterward a weird feeling in my chest, warm, but strangely (embarasing?) feeling...i'm not a christian, but didn't adam and eve feel shame by their nakedness?

[buzzo]

also when i asked where is this all gonna go...we are (someday) going to move to our hearts, you following, causing a shift of dimensions up up up, okay...so after that happens and we leave this 3d reality what happens to all the shit we made? does it all just get washed away? disintigrate?

[Hodge]

who knows
we are here to create

[jevons]

home is where the heart is mate

when you were a kid...think back now...when you were a kid do you remember being told that your head is where you think? do you remember a time when you didn't think with your head? i do. i remember having the idea that my thoughts came from my heart. after i was told that simply wasn't true, that's when i started to sink in to the reality i (we) live in now. i remember afterward a weird feeling in my chest, warm, but strangely (embarasing?) feeling...i'm not a christian, but didn't adam and eve feel shame by their nakedness?

Oh, i though you were getting off on some ''spaceship behind comets'' thing. I was just being careful. Yes, i do remember that feeling of thinking from heart, and, truth be told, i don't think i fully left it.
I became angry, sad and desperate, still am in a way.
But these are necessary tools for the elevation of others.
I wont kiss a rapist on the cheeck; sure, i cry for them, but that's not for them to see. They need to see a cold analysis of their crime, they need to be told it is sick and why. Then they need to die for it.

Adam and Eve felt shame after eating the fruit, yes, knowledge, in a sense, diminishes true wisdom. But without the free will experiment, would there ever be proof that light is really light?
That's why we're here homeboy, to prove the light light.
And live it.
God will smile when we take it's blindfold off, and then there will be on fooken hells of a party.

[jevons]

also when i asked where is this all gonna go...we are (someday) going to move to our hearts, you following, causing a shift of dimensions up up up, okay...so after that happens and we leave this 3d reality what happens to all the shit we made? does it all just get washed away? disintigrate?

We stay here (physically), and assist with greater compitence, like the light beings that already exist here.

If you puke on someone's carpet, you clean it up, right?

I would.

[buzzo]

We stay here (physically), and assist with greater compitence, like the light beings that already exist here.

If you puke on someone's carpet, you clean it up, right?

I would.


thanks (that's a sincere thanks too, not a sarcastic one)

[jevons]

Cool. (that's me thinking you getting that is cool)

[paravariations]

Going back to the original post...

3) I hate this idea, but as Viginit Tres corresponds to The End, what if the next album will be Tool's End? Or worse yet, was THIS album The End?
Maybe it could just mean the end as in the end of the album. It's the last song, so it could make some sense.

[jevons]

Going beyond the original post... it's been covered.

[jerico v]

as far as the mayans go, one of my teachers does all his research on the maya, and what he has said is that they call for a "major event" and that it's the 21st, not the 23rd.

[Ghostwriter]

the Mayan calendar (Which is only about seventeen seconds off and continues today since like 1300 years or something) predicts the end of the world on December 23, 2012. Maybe the next album will be about the apocalypse. Dunno.


Sorry, but get your facts right. The Mayan Calender ENDS on December 21st 2012 which some people have PREDICTED as meaning the apocalypse. This is however just a prediction. I believe on 12/21/12 our culture will be changed forever when there is a great change in the universe, or something like that.

[The Holy Gift]

thats right, the mayan calender abrubtly ends. but do u know what our universe will be like on that date....they did. at 11:11 on 12/21/12 the earth will be at its winter solstice, being exactly on the solar systems planal equator....at the same time, our solar sytem will rest exactly on the galatic planal equator....there will be total and complete alignment, earth -> sun -> galaxy -> ? maybe even universal. its trip how the mayans calculated the orbit of the moon more precise than we do. its a trip how this "ancient civilization" knew about the galactic alignment. im not sure if there is a syzygy at this time...but if so...thats just even wierder. (a syzygy is when all the planets in our solar system align). now what all that means...i wont even pretend to know. how it will affect us, i wont pretend to know. but look it up...astronomers and astrophysicists now its coming.

[Cheesegreater]

thats right, the mayan calender abrubtly ends. but do u know what our universe will be like on that date....they did. at 11:11 on 12/21/12 the earth will be at its winter solstice, being exactly on the solar systems planal equator....at the same time, our solar sytem will rest exactly on the galatic planal equator....there will be total and complete alignment, earth -> sun -> galaxy -> ? maybe even universal. its trip how the mayans calculated the orbit of the moon more precise than we do. its a trip how this "ancient civilization" knew about the galactic alignment. im not sure if there is a syzygy at this time...but if so...thats just even wierder. (a syzygy is when all the planets in our solar system align). now what all that means...i wont even pretend to know. how it will affect us, i wont pretend to know. but look it up...astronomers and astrophysicists now its coming.

This lining up that will happen I think is phenomenal. It's fascinating, and to pretend it's not significant is absurd. I think the world is ready for a significant change. I know I would welcome it.

[]v[edusa]

Isn't this "end of times" actually the end of the age of Pisces and the coming new age of Aquarius?

Its interesting how it ends at winter solstice because it marks the shortest day of the year. It is celebrated as the rebirth of sunlight after the darkest period of the year.

Death of the old, and rebirth into the new.