Polyrhythms

[rockfan7]

I'm not that experienced with polyrhythms as I've only played one song with them in it (I play the piano) and that song was extremely simple. I've heard people say that they're here on Lateralus but I can't hear them. If anyone could point out some spots in any of the songs that contain polyrhythms, I'd appreciate it. I think once I get a feel for what they sound like, I'll understand them more. If you could give a time in the song when it starts (you know, like 3:45 or whatever) that would be awesome as well.

[seclorum]

bout the polyrythms, don't really know what exactly they are but anyways, Meshuggah are said to use a lot of them. maybe you should check them out to.thank you for the attention.

[paraflux]

Not at home, so no times from me...
The beginning of Eulogy is the perfect example. For the first 3 minutes there's all those different percussive instruments, and even the bass and guitar get in on the action. Danny does it so often its hard to think about when he's only got one rhthym going on. The end of Lateralus, the spiral, thats all about polyrhthyms. The guitar and bass are in one time sig, drums in another (or a few other).

[rockfan7]

Yeah I have Chaosphere by Meshuggah. And I can hear it at the beginning of Eulogy. But I think I might be asking for the wrong thing. I was always under the impression that polyrhythms were when there were two different types of rhythms (like triplets against duplets) and polymetrics were when there were two different time signatures (like 4/4 and 5/4). But I'm not really sure about any of this stuff. Anyways, I appreciate the feedback and hope more people add to this thread.

[aetherion]

i've had music lessons for like the last 13 years or something [don't follow suit...they get kinda tedious when all you do is exams -_-]
and i'm *pretty* sure that polyrhythms are basically as you said, like duplets over triplets...etc

this happens in lateralus most noticably at the end of the song [7:30] where maynard comes in..there are 3 rhythms running concurrently

maynard is singing in quadruplets
danny is drumming in triplets
and adam is guitaring :) in duplets

because adam and maynard both come in the the same time [quadruplets just being a multiple of duplets] the main polyrhythm effect is that of 4 vx 3 [i.e. for every 3 beats danny plays maynard sings four 'beats']

it's harder to pick up due to danny not just playing 'one, two three, one, two, three, [his rhythms are more like one, two, three-ee, one, two-ee, three] [at this point in the post i've decided that danny is actaully playing in sextuplets, i.e. one, two, three-ee, four, five-ee, six. however the overall effect is the same].

try tapping danny's simple beat first. just one, two, three etc etc

then at the same time try to bring in the beats where mayard sings. this 4 on 3 or 4 on 6 extract is a perfect example of polyrhythm. tool do this A LOT on lateralus.

hope that helped :)

--aeth

[Pierre-Paul]

I'm a drummer, and polyrythms are very hard to play! The perfect example of a polyrythm in Tool's music is the part in Eulogy in the end with Maynard singing "you claimed all this time that you would die for me, now then why are you surprised to hear you own eulogy". Danny plays on his hi-hat in triplets and the rest of his rythm(snare and bass drum) is in 2. But it's just the drummer that plys the polyrythm.

[Madklikor]

Originally posted by rockfan7
I was always under the impression that polyrhythms were when there were two different types of rhythms (like triplets against duplets) and polymetrics were when there were two different time signatures (like 4/4 and 5/4). .

Both are polyrhythms. In fact, polyrhythms just means that different rhythms are superposed, which happens all the time in music. For clarity reasons, the definition is reduced to different rhythms with different accents, or to triplets, quintuplets and all that stuff. It depends on what music you're talking about 'reference : "les musiques des pygmées Aka", Simah Arhom).

[RasputinDelOest]

Sorry about the spelling and stufff. too speelelepy

Forty-Six & 2, the quiet part before the end, that's one.

I'm so proud of myself that i can understand this music lingo... hehe

I'm about to go post on how the Lateralus album can compare to Mozart as far as composition.

[rockfan7]

Thanks, everyone, for helping me out here. After reading your posts, something clicked in my mind and I've been hearing polyrhythms everywhere in Tool's music. But I'm not sure if what I'm hearing is true, or if it's my ears playing tricks on me. Here's some of them that I found and need confirmed:

(By the way, I don't have access to the music right now so I'm not sure if these are where I actually heard them)

Pushit - In a lot of places. After "you're pushin and shovin and scramblin. Keep my feet down on the ground" when the heavy guitar kicks in. It's 4:3 I think

AEnema - "Fret for your figure and fret for your latte and fret..." 6:4 vocals in 6 and drums in 4

I found many more but I can't think of them right now. Also, I'm not sure if the 6:4 and 4:3 stuff is right... I think they're pretty much the same thing because they are just multiples or whatever.

[SmallWangedMan]

Danny is into a lot of advanced drum theories like polyrhythms, he plays them all over the place. They're quite cool. As a drummer, I'm much more impressed by his skill and creativity with things like polyrhythms than I am by someone who plays "really really fast." (*cough* Mike Portnoy *cough*).

I think Danny is the biggest infulence on the rhythmic prog feel of their albums, especially Lateralus. Sometimes you'll hear the other members get on some polyrythms, but it's usually Danny...often playing both (or more) of the rhythms himself!

[rockfan7]

Originally posted by SmallWangedMan
As a drummer, I'm much more impressed by his skill and creativity with things like polyrhythms than I am by someone who plays "really really fast." (*cough* Mike Portnoy *cough*).

I definitely agree with that statement. Mike Portnoy's drumming, though fast, is just plain annoying sometimes. Danny's drumming has much more creativity, and what some people fail to realize (like Mike Portnoy) is that music doesn't need to be blisteringly fast and repetitive to be technical and hard to play.

[animantra]

The end of Ænema is a great polyrythm.

[ihatemickjagger]

Originally posted by animantra
The end of Ænema is a great polyrythm.

yeah, that is probably my favorite tool ending...aenema has a few tricky rhythmic moments, like the beginning...the first time i heard that song, maynard's whispering "hey's" led me to think that adam's intro guitar riff was at a tempo of 200bpm, but when danny and justin came in, it changed what i thought was the tempo from about 200bpm to 150, with the guitar in triplets

another band i like that has a few moments like these is Rush. Neil Peart is an awesome drummer...by listening to mike portnoy, it seems that he totally idolizes neil...but neil is much smarter as a drummer in that he doesn't just play fast, he knows much better ways of making his rhythms technical.