The Significance to this track

[Godin]

I know only that the Lipan tribe is located in the mountains in Texas. Is there any other significant info about the Lipan tribe that anybody is aware of?

Why did Tool choose to conjure the Lipans as opposed to any other tribe?

What is the exact translation of the chant they are singing?

Personally, I think the track provides a much needed break between "The Pot" and the very dense "Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned" tracks to come. Might there be any other significance to its particular placement on the album? "Lost Keys (Blame Hoffman)" depicts a scenario inside of a hospital, inside of a place of HEALING, and in fact the entire "Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned" compilation is directed towards the healing of the estranged character (having wild hallucinations) that is depicted through those songs.

Might this shaman chant be the work of a medicine man, who may be praying for healing spirits or something to that nature? If so, then my prediction that this album is one of showing pure benevolence to the listener -or at least a certain type of listener- would seem to be a little bit more well supported.

Just thinking out loud...

-Godin

[ShadowLine]

they are not conjuring lipans, it is the lipans that are conjuring something.

chris
x

[Godin]

they are not conjuring lipans, it is the lipans that are conjuring something.

Oh.. yeah, right. My question should be then:

Why did Tool choose the Lipan tribe to conjure something as opposed to any other tribe?

-Godin

[ShadowLine]

Oh.. yeah, right. My question should be then:

Why did Tool choose the Lipan tribe to conjure something as opposed to any other tribe?

-Godin

lipans were the most spiritualistic / ritualistic tribe. they were masters of conjuration etc.

chris
x

[Airport Mesa]

Maynard is part native american, apache that is. by his father i believe

[figgy2967]

Maynard is part native american, apache that is. by his father i believe

Do you know this as a fact? I mean how sure are you? Just being speculative

[ObiJohnKenobi]

why can't it be a "lipan conjuring"? a conjuring up of a tribe lost to conflict and eventual assimilation?

[Opiate_Of_The_Mind]

No idea my friend, maybe he has some love for their spiritualistic ways, or maybe he just thought it sounded cool. Maybe, we all need to be a bit more like the lipans. Conjuring a little lipan in all of us.

[merman]

theres no significance to this track.
stop overanalyzing.

[mike09]

theres no significance to this track.
stop overanalyzing.

Yeah, I agree. They just put a random filler track in the middle of the album for no apparent reason at all...

[ShadowLine]

Yeah, I agree. They just put a random filler track in the middle of the album for no apparent reason at all...

if you believe that then we cant help you.

chris
x

[SpiraMirabilis]

I don't know much about this track, but I like it for some reason.

Maybe thats why its in there, its a nice break from the complex stuff.

[Me smart cuz of tOoL]

I have no credible source for this information, I'm afraid, but I did read somewhere that the Lipan Apaches practiced rituals in which they believed gave them the power to disappear into thin air. That doesn't really explain much about the track's significance, but it gives me a creepy, mystical feeling when I listen to the track, and that's all I care about, frankly! That's why I love Tool: their music creates atmospheres and landscapes in my head. I'm being tangential again blah blah blah...

[implandnoises]

I have no credible source for this information, I'm afraid, but I did read somewhere that the Lipan Apaches practiced rituals in which they believed gave them the power to disappear into thin air. That doesn't really explain much about the track's significance, but it gives me a creepy, mystical feeling when I listen to the track, and that's all I care about, frankly! That's why I love Tool: their music creates atmospheres and landscapes in my head. I'm being tangential again blah blah blah...
Haha, thats cool.

Yeah, I think that disappearing trick may be because they were so good at hiding from their enemies and popping out when least expected. Or just being able to move in great numbers right under your nose without you ever knowing they were there. I wonder how fast they could move like this?

I remember when I was younger I was playing a game - Go Home Stay Home I think. The best stratigy in the game is to not be seen as you make your way to "home". I hid in bushes by a river for a long time - never moving, just lying between two areas of grass. The ground I was on though was sandy. So when I saw an opportunity to move, I moved ever so slowely long the sand - on my belly as carefully as I could so as to not make a sound. It took me forever, but once I was out in the open I had an easy dash to home because my "disappearance" had left the hunter go further afield in search of me.

That took ages but worked. I bet Apahces could do it a lot faster though!

[Choice Breath]

I have no credible source for this information, I'm afraid, but I did read somewhere that the Lipan Apaches practiced rituals in which they believed gave them the power to disappear into thin air. That doesn't really explain much about the track's significance, but it gives me a creepy, mystical feeling when I listen to the track, and that's all I care about, frankly! That's why I love Tool: their music creates atmospheres and landscapes in my head. I'm being tangential again blah blah blah...

Maynard has made a lot of New Age references in his lyrics. I read The Celestine Prophecy a long time ago and part of the story was that once you reached a certain level of awareness (or something, it's been a long while) you would be able to disappear. I'm just throwing this out there with no research, just some ancient memory about the book. I just wonder if there were some reference to Lipan Apaches or something like that in the book, or if the idea was somehow related.

[Terry21]

Does the work on an interlude take very long?

What do you mean? The passages between all the songs?

Exactly.

Okay. One of my favorite moments did my buddy Bill, I'm refering to this native-American interlude with the apache-like singing. That's not from him, not from Maynard. He's actually our only guest on the album. But it's nonetheless hard for me to answer your question. Many things just happen straight and then you use it.

- Danny Carey (poorly translated).

Not mocking the first post, just refering to the topic title.

[StereoScopicLenses]

if you believe that then we cant help you.

chris
x

EXACTLY!

[implandnoises]

Does the work on an interlude take very long?

What do you mean? The passages between all the songs?

Exactly.

Okay. One of my favorite moments did my buddy Bill, I'm refering to this native-American interlude with the apache-like singing. That's not from him, not from Maynard. He's actually our only guest on the album. But it's nonetheless hard for me to answer your question. Many things just happen straight and then you use it.

- Danny Carey (poorly translated).

Not mocking the first post, just refering to the topic title.

I see... that makes sense


in a twisted grammar kind of way.

[Terry21]

Sorry.

=/

[lokiate]

if you believe that then we cant help you.

chris
x

I believe it was sarcasm

[Inner_Eulogy]

Haha, thats cool.

Yeah, I think that disappearing trick may be because they were so good at hiding from their enemies and popping out when least expected. Or just being able to move in great numbers right under your nose without you ever knowing they were there. I wonder how fast they could move like this?

I remember when I was younger I was playing a game - Go Home Stay Home I think. The best stratigy in the game is to not be seen as you make your way to "home". I hid in bushes by a river for a long time - never moving, just lying between two areas of grass. The ground I was on though was sandy. So when I saw an opportunity to move, I moved ever so slowely long the sand - on my belly as carefully as I could so as to not make a sound. It took me forever, but once I was out in the open I had an easy dash to home because my "disappearance" had left the hunter go further afield in search of me.

That took ages but worked. I bet Apahces could do it a lot faster though!

lol, Sounds like you was running from the town bully

[Doubt]

I have no credible source for this information, I'm afraid, but I did read somewhere that the Lipan Apaches practiced rituals in which they believed gave them the power to disappear into thin air. That doesn't really explain much about the track's significance, but it gives me a creepy, mystical feeling when I listen to the track, and that's all I care about, frankly! That's why I love Tool: their music creates atmospheres and landscapes in my head. I'm being tangential again blah blah blah...


I could be way off... but maybe, since his dad was apache (apparently), he did a 'dissapearing act' in some way. Perhaps emotionally when Maynard or his mother needed him or in some other way...
I'm taking a wild guess, since I know nothing of Maynard's background.

[Nietzsche's Dead]

The significance, I'm sure, is mainy atmosperic (though the placement *I* think could have fit better between jambi and the pot - in an alternative tracking), though I do *distinctfully* remember reading somewhere (perhaps here??) that the chant is some kind exorcism, practiced by the Lipan tribe.

[Godin]

though I do *distinctfully* remember reading somewhere (perhaps here??) that the chant is some kind exorcism, practiced by the Lipan tribe.

Well, I'm not sure if you're referring to what I've said here and in other places, but I get the impression that Lipan Conjuring is a sort of summoning of healing spirits. The healing spirits that are being summoned in Lipan Conjuring would be meant to be of aid to the character who enters the HOSPITAL in the two following tracks (hospitals of course are a form of bodily healing, while the chant is for spiritual healing) The total message of tracks 6-8 would be something to the effect of "the guy in Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned is fucked up and needs some help".

I don't know if there is some sort of irony within Lipan Conjuring though.. like, some people have claimed it is singing "new tool, tool cool" or something funny like that. If that does turn out to be true, then my first take would not be off, it would just be undermined by the irony. Tool would be saying "hah. at first you thought this track was about spiritually healing the estranged guy who walks into the hospital in the following "Lost Keys" track, but it's really mocking him, and you, for believing we'd write something like that!"


Now, do I really believe Tool would put an irony like that in their music, and their album? I don't know. I know NOTHING about the personal characters of anybody in the band, and therefore cannot make a judgement about what there mysterious personalities would come up with. As far as I'm concerned, they might not even have a sense of humor.

[theprosperone]

What I think about the track is based purely on the experience I get when listening to the album, which I almost always do from start to finish.

It really does seem like it cleanses the pallette. The first 5 tracks seem to be emotional and very human. After Lipan Conjuring the album takes on a more omnipotent feel for me. The world is opened up to being more than just the human experience. Vicariouc, Jambi, Wings for Marie, 10,000 Days and The Pot all seem to be musically and lyrically reflecting human emotions in a raw manner. The music and lyrics both take a turn for the more abstract and spiritual from here on out.

Just don't take anything I say and put other meanings behind it though because I think overall the concept of Tool's music is very abstract and open to many interpretations. I don't get into specifics because to me it is more of a feeling, a mood or expression. I really don't try to fill in the blanks they leave with much of my own, I just like to leave it vague and let the music fill in the feeling that the supports the lyrics.

[Phorty]

i remember hearing that this track was about a certain member of TOOL reconnecting with his ancestry. im fairly certain about that.
as in , knowing where you come from to understand where your going.

[wearethestories]

It really does seem like it cleanses the pallette. The first 5 tracks seem to be emotional and very human. After Lipan Conjuring the album takes on a more omnipotent feel for me. The world is opened up to being more than just the human experience. Vicariouc, Jambi, Wings for Marie, 10,000 Days and The Pot all seem to be musically and lyrically reflecting human emotions in a raw manner. The music and lyrics both take a turn for the more abstract and spiritual from here on out.

Completely agree.

Thanks.

[Doubt]

Completely agree.

Thanks.


That's put a lot in perspective for me.

[DON IOTAE]

...

Personally, I think the track provides a much needed break between "The Pot" and the very dense "Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned" tracks to come. Might there be any other significance to its particular placement on the album? "Lost Keys (Blame Hoffman)" depicts a scenario inside of a hospital, inside of a place of HEALING, and in fact the entire "Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned" compilation is directed towards the healing of the estranged character (having wild hallucinations) that is depicted through those songs.

Might this shaman chant be the work of a medicine man, who may be praying for healing spirits or something to that nature? If so, then my prediction that this album is one of showing pure benevolence to the listener -or at least a certain type of listener- would seem to be a little bit more well supported.

Just thinking out loud...

-Godin

thats what i started asking myself. what is the purpose of this song, in the context of the whole album? I understand its about some kind of exorcism or sumpin.

[opiated]

It could be possible that there are actually words in the song being sung in the Lipan version of the Southern Athabaskan language and not a bunch of mere random vocal sounds.

If so, maybe there is a way to uncode the message.

The whole segue, though, really helps weld and unite the two parts of the album together. You have one part of the album that's tends to be so raw and veiled lightly and another part that goes in a dissimilar direction. I don't think we realize what a key track this actually is. Would the album sound better if "Lost Keys" hit you right after "The Pot?" I don't think it would. And you tend notice how the album builds up and falls off, builds back up and falls back off again (in how heavy the guitar tends to be, the different states the music travels to, etc.) . . . it's like 10,000 Days is really two EPs united to be one.

The way Tool arranged the tracklisting for 10,000 Days is something similar to "The Holy Gift" re-arranged tracklisting for Lateralus. With "THG," you had "Faaip De Oaid" as the center piece of the album and two parts to the album that seemed near fluid in progression spirialing from it. Who knows if Tool intended for it to be like that. Who knows what the real meaning behind "Faaip De Oaid" is (and who knows what the real meaning behind "Lipan Conjuring" is, for that matter)? But, the way the tracks on 10,000 Days are arranged always seemed to remind me of that suggested tracklisting for Lateralus.

I'm talking out of my head here, so humor me. But, when I decide to stop and look at the odd duality shown on this album, I can't help but be interested.

[McButterpants]

What I think about the track is based purely on the experience I get when listening to the album, which I almost always do from start to finish.

It really does seem like it cleanses the pallette. The first 5 tracks seem to be emotional and very human. After Lipan Conjuring the album takes on a more omnipotent feel for me. The world is opened up to being more than just the human experience. Vicariouc, Jambi, Wings for Marie, 10,000 Days and The Pot all seem to be musically and lyrically reflecting human emotions in a raw manner. The music and lyrics both take a turn for the more abstract and spiritual from here on out.

Just don't take anything I say and put other meanings behind it though because I think overall the concept of Tool's music is very abstract and open to many interpretations. I don't get into specifics because to me it is more of a feeling, a mood or expression. I really don't try to fill in the blanks they leave with much of my own, I just like to leave it vague and let the music fill in the feeling that the supports the lyrics.

I too recognise your distinction. Although I entirely disagree with your third paragraph - sure, the feeling is not to be forgotten, but why be afraid of letting your brain ponder over such stimulating material? Analysing Tool has never taken the fun out of listening to them for me, and normally enhances what I hear. Especially as I listen to some tracks for the 1,000th time (over a good few years, of course) I still feel and identify new things. I am amazed at the number of people on a Tool forum who are afraid of using their brains. It really is incredibly ironic, given Tool's message of thinking for yourself AND given everyone is a member of this forum, presumably to discuss things with other people... Oh well.

Nonetheless, good original point, theprosperone.

[TreyPetty]

Why do you title a post "The significance of the track" and then make a bunch of random guesses?

"If the lipans...and then maybe...blah blah..." what a pointless thread.

[hellboy1975]

Why do you title a post "The significance of the track" and then make a bunch of random guesses?

"If the lipans...and then maybe...blah blah..." what a pointless thread.

Isn't speculation allowed here?

[Esteban Crespo]

Why do you title a post "The significance of the track" and then make a bunch of random guesses?

"If the lipans...and then maybe...blah blah..." what a pointless thread.

Perhaps you were expecting a certain and final explanation by the author himself. Anything written by another person is just personal interpretation...and that's kinda this forum's purpose, I think.

[Esteban Crespo]

And then there's me, answering a post that is about 2 years old. From a guy that probably never entered the forum again. The story of my life...sometimes right, but always late.

[iAMtheMA!]

good posts, esteban crespo - this section gets too boring, keep 'em coming.

[Esteban Crespo]

I'll do my best, I promise...

[Rockwool_inhaler]

Eeaa reminds me of a greek ancient word <Ία> which means "heal".