"reflection crack" and 10,000 days

[christjohn]

I think there was some kind of "crack" in Maynard's personality when he was writting "Reflection", since then he's been turning into more spiritual person....
Listen to "Weak and powerless" lyrics (angels, devil...) or even "Gravity". Those of you who think "Right In Two" or "Wings for Marie" are really "different" from the rest of Tool's songs must re-listen to "Lateralus".

This is the end of rebelion
MJK would be calm now
We'll come to find
that we're all
one mind







(this post is little ironic:)

[paraflux]

Must you be a christian to use devils and angels as metaphors?

[christjohn]

Who said "christian"?

[paraflux]

I assumed by "becoming a more spiritual person" by using such terminology meant to y ou that he was turning into a christian, many other people are tyring to use the same phrases as a means with which to better identify with Maynard as a christian, sorry if that is not the case here. But I do think the entire band has been very spiritual for their entire career.

[ObiJohnKenobi]

Who said "christian"?


Night Ranger sang Sister Christian.... other than that, though, you got me...

[christjohn]

I don't agree paraflux.
If you call your first recording "Opiate (for - or - of the masses)" you can't be spiritual (Marks, Marx?)
"Undertow"? (too much of Freud's Id there)
"Aenema"? (Jung? Maybe, but he undestands Anima also as a figure of woman). Defenitly Nietzsche (46&2 = Overman), Third Eye? "Think for yourself, question authorities"

So, in my opinion, before "Lateralus", there's only body there....

And now, ladies and gentelmen, Kill your egos, kill your Ids.... let the Light touch you...
God?
Well, It's not his mom...
Father bless you all with reason, and this is what you choose... 10,000 days

[pink_rose]

I thought Aenema had a lot of spiritual in it... but i do see the progression.

[paraflux]

I don't agree paraflux.
If you call your first recording "Opiate (for - or - of the masses)" you can't be spiritual (Marks, Marx?)
You are getting hung up on names without context. You think it's impossible to be a spiritual being and talk shit about the masses?

"Undertow"? (too much of Freud's Id there)
I suggest you read the lyrics to 4 degrees. Cavern of treasures, let's go digging, etc.

"Aenema"? (Jung? Maybe, but he undestands Anima also as a figure of woman). Defenitly Nietzsche (46&2 = Overman), Third Eye? "Think for yourself, question authorities"
Why are you comparing albums to philosophers? I mean, I guess that's one way to look at music, but I would much rather look at it in a fresher light. It may build on concepts introduced by earlier people but it's still the band talking, not anyone else. If you dont think there is any spirituality held in AEnima, I dont know what to tell you. It was the introduction of evolution as the plan, and the next stage being a spiritual one, stepping through the shadow to see far more than we have experienced here, about going home, about apocalypse and judgment, about the third eye and why it is important for spiritual development.

So, in my opinion, before "Lateralus", there's only body there....
I dont know how to respond to that, as I have never thought that way and I cant now because of my experience.

And now, ladies and gentelmen, Kill your egos, kill your Ids.... let the Light touch you...
God?
Yes?
Well, It's not his mom...
Father bless you all with reason, and this is what you choose... 10,000 days
I am not sure what you tried to say.

[spacemonkeyadb]

If you call your first recording "Opiate (for - or - of the masses)" you can't be spiritual (Marks, Marx?)


I'm pretty sure Tool can make reference to Karl Marx's well known quote on religion without being fully committed to every single aspect of Marxist philosophy.

[Carbonatedgravy]

It looks like you're using the word "spiritual" as a synonym for "religious" when they're not the same thing. Maynard has used more religious metaphors lately in his lyrics than he did in the early days, but they've always been about spiritual growth and expanding your mind, at least in philosophy. The religious metaphors are just another form of expression, and while he probably has changed as all people do, the spirituality has always been there.

[christjohn]

I was ironic starting this post, but it doesn't mean I was an asshole. So, here's my answer:

Carbonatedgravy! Yes, I consider Maynard's "crack" as beginning of his way to be religious.
For me euphemism "more spiritual" ^ means "religious". I think atheist also has a spirit, but he just doesn't make such an effort to develope it... In my opinion, Maynard has been doing it after "crack". I really think "crack" was somewhere between "Aenema" and "Lateralus".
And question for you, Carbo: Do you see any difference between "expanding your mind" and spiritual developement? Because if you can't tell a difference, there is no spirit OR you can't be spiritual without being religious? (NOT IRONIC QUESTION)

paraflux! I think you can talk shit about opiate and the masses, why not? But as long you're spiritual it will turn out against you and ten years after you will feel like the pot calling kettle black. Don't get me wrong, I like Maynard's mind/spirit from lyrics, but this
dissonance ( Jesus Christ, why don't you come save my life now <-----> Wings for Marie) is little shitty.
About this "body" before "lateralus": I mean there wasn't any "religion themes" before "Lateralus" so there was no spirit expressed by Maynard. After "crack" there have been Buddhism and now Christianity. (Do you remember cross on a chest of Tricky at the "Parabol/Parabola" video?)
Maybe now He's really religious and He teach us (now I'm little ironic). He sounds like this at "right in two".

[paraflux]

I dont think you're an asshole.

You seem to have very opinionated ideas about what you can and cant do. So I'm not going to argue for very long. I dont see a need for Maynard or the band to do any backtracking or apologizing. They still play Opiate live, meaning it still holds true for them. You can find the dissonance in the comparisons of the two lines, yet let me tell you how I see it. Opiate is angry. Opiate deals with the blind follower, not against the christ figure. The line you quoted is a mockery of them, not him. Wings is using his mother's death as an example that even those closest to him are not exempt from the impersonal hostility of the universe. They are not exempt from destruction, or separation.

That's just how I see it, you can continue to grapple with the dissonance, if you like.

[christjohn]

Hey, paraflux! Tell me something, honestly... Don't you think "Lateralus" was like 5 times better than "10,000 days"? WHY/WHY NOT?

[jim39n]

i've never seen so many gross misuses of the word "ironic"

[paraflux]

Hey, paraflux! Tell me something, honestly... Don't you think "Lateralus" was like 5 times better than "10,000 days"? WHY/WHY NOT?
I dont compare albums to each other. I can tell you AEnima means more to me than any other record they have released.

[Carbonatedgravy]

Carbo: Do you see any difference between "expanding your mind" and spiritual developement? Because if you can't tell a difference, there is no spirit OR you can't be spiritual without being religious?

Of course there is a difference, but the two are related. Becoming wiser, more open minded and more aware of yourself and the world around you is expansion of the mind but is also a pathway towards increased response to the gateways of the spirit. (Sorry for sounding pretentious. Can't think of a better way to word this right now.) Religion can often be one of many guides towards reaching a deeper level of spirituality.

The "Jesus Christ" line in Opiate was not a rip on Jesus but instead upon the concept of blind faith and lazy believers. Tool have not softened up on this stance at all. The very song you reference after Opiate contains lines such as "Ignorant fibbers in the congregation" and "the collective Judas."

[christjohn]

Thanks Carbo. To tell you truth, I think "Wings for Marie" is not really about Maynard and his mom. It would be a little "pretentious"... Maybe it's about non-religious spirituality.

There is a way between ignorance and arogance - He says (not Maynard, lyrical subject, as smart people - like jim39n - call it)

[Salvatorin]

it would be kinda cool if they all got kind of like hindu and stuff.

[Salvatorin]

thats a hard sentence to read

[slamminsalmon]

I think there was some kind of "crack" in Maynard's personality when he was writting "Reflection", since then he's been turning into more spiritual person....
Listen to "Weak and powerless" lyrics (angels, devil...) or even "Gravity". Those of you who think "Right In Two" or "Wings for Marie" are really "different" from the rest of Tool's songs must re-listen to "Lateralus".

This is the end of rebelion
MJK would be calm now
We'll come to find
that we're all
one mind







(this post is little ironic:)


wut?

[amenorakumo]

I love the fact that wings is being compared to reflection. I believe he wrote the lyrics about his mom, but like the amazing artist he is, I still feel like he's talking directly to me, as in reflection... A couple of times I listened to wings for marie and actually thought I was going to leave my body. lol still waiting too :). But I don't have much to say besides what's been said. It's the same idea as people thinking H. is about his son; though he may have said it ... if you listen to the lyrics I don't see how you wculdn't apply it to your own life, which is what I do to every tool song... learned a lot about myself that way...

[Ænimic4six1]

one thing i realise was that Wings 1&2 are written during Lateralus..coz of one of the performances had them playing the music..so its most probably was written with inspiration from Reflection overflowing to Wings..

[notregistered]

The main riff was writen during the Lateralus tours, but obviously not the lyrics, since his mom was still alive in 2002.

[fadastic]

Thanks Carbo. To tell you truth, I think "Wings for Marie" is not really about Maynard and his mom. It would be a little "pretentious"... Maybe it's about non-religious spirituality.

To tell you the truth when I first heard the song I didn't think it was about his mother, but I imagined it being about a fallen angel wanting to get back into heaven.

[skarab_x]

haha, billy wrote the lyrics for weak and powerless.