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View Full Version : Shame (my interpretation of this song).


panocha21
07-19-2006, 07:33 PM
Listen to the lyrics of Right in Two. Imagine the picture Maynard is attempting to paint in your brain. Spiritually perfect angels looking down on humans from the sidelines, puzzled and amused. Monkeys killing monkeys over pieces of the ground. Silly monkeys beating each other up with clubs. How do you feel? I don't know about you, but I feel ashamed to be human.

And so is the point of this song. To show how potent shamefulness can be in terms of building followers and strengthening religious and spiritual beliefs. Here's what Wikipedia said about Shame (namely "Religous" shame).

"Religious shame
Shame is a key (if controversial) theme in religion. Religions that claim only God or other spiritual beings are perfect in that sense impute a certain kind of shame on human beings. In many cases, that shame is associated with sexuality and other carnal characteristics of human beings, though others would argue that only sinful expressions of those characterstics should be shameful.

Religious faith can create the basis for shame because shame reflects internalized ideas as to what is right and proper and about what is wrong and improper. This means that torture tactics intended to shame religious adherents might merely titillate other people (e.g., nudity). Conversely, religions may associate honor with certain behaviors (e.g, martyrdom in Christianity, veils in Islam) that others consider shameful. The ideas and the strength with which religious (and other) ideas are held seems to influence whether shame occurs and how much shame occurs in a subject."

And so, there you have it. Shame is as powerful a tool as something like fear. There is a direct correlation between the strength with which you practice your religion and the amount of shame you have. Shame plays a key role in keeping you humbled and in your place. Shame is a key ingredient in your spiritual well-being (or maybe not?).

Also, I noticed something interesting about Wikipedia's take on shame. They talk about something called Vicarious shame. Since Vicarious is a song and a theme to this album, here's what they say about it.

" Vicarious shame
Psychologists recently introduced the notion of vicarious shame, which refers to the experience of shame on behalf of another person. Individuals vary in their tendency to experience vicarious shame, which is related to neuroticism and to the tendency to experience personal shame. Extremely shame-prone people might even experience vicarious shame: shame on behalf of another person who is already feeling shame on behalf of a third party (or possibly on behalf of the individual proper).

987
07-20-2006, 01:28 AM
Great post!


Shame is as powerful a tool as something like fear. There is a direct correlation between the strength with which you practice your religion and the amount of shame you have. Shame plays a key role in keeping you humbled and in your place..


That though, debates on whether or not we have free will.

Carbonatedgravy
07-20-2006, 01:56 AM
Great post indeed. This is such a sad album, and I guess that's because it deals with shame, and kind of forces the listener to look at themself in a negative way. The same theme could be transfered to other songs on the album as well. (Intension as the easiest example.)

lizbiz
07-20-2006, 06:11 AM
Great post.

I guess you could say shame and disappointment are a major theme of the album. It seems to appear in almost every track.

Vicarious - Vicarious shame, disappointment in us watching and not acting
Jambi - Disappointment in himself, shame for his actions - working on redemption
Wings - Shame on heaven and God - disappointment his mother lived 'in the fire'
Pot - Disappointment in an individual
Lipan - Undechipherable (as of now)
LK Rosetta - Disappointment in the belief that drug use is seen by many as the only way to enlightenment, we are not getting the message
Intension/Right in Two - You covered that

They've stated that this is there 'blues' album. I have to admitt I feel a certain pain when I listen to this album. I feel spiritual when I listen to Lateralus and I feel disheartened when I listen to this album. I think that's why a lot of people are having a hard time swallowing 10k Days. You can't just bang your head to it, it doesn't make you feel 'good' inside. I have to admit I get pretty angry by the end of Right in Two, not in a bad way, but in an 'awakening' way.

As I'm typing this, I just realized that Maynard has mad Judith a sort of deity in this album. 'Your the ONLY one who can hold your head up high' Why is she the only one? If she gets her wings, then she would be one of the 'angels on the sideline' in Right in Two. It seems that this album is disappointed in everyone except for Judith.

Great post, got me thinking.

Inner_Eulogy
07-20-2006, 09:54 AM
Vicarious - Vicarious shame, disappointment in us watching and not acting
Jambi - Disappointment in himself, shame for his actions - working on redemption
Wings - Shame on heaven and God - disappointment his mother lived 'in the fire'
Pot - Disappointment in an individual
Lipan - Undechipherable (as of now)
LK Rosetta - Disappointment in the belief that drug use is seen by many as the only way to enlightenment, we are not getting the message
Intension/Right in Two - You covered that

I agree with most of what you're saying except The Pot. Pot is not disappointment in an individual. It's more of a generlization towards goverments(dictators) and the hypocrisy within them. It's ok for goverments to intentionally lie, cheat and steal from others but it's not ok for anybody else. Who the fuck are they to tell us what we're doing wrong as a society when they're more corrupt than most mafia.

They've stated that this is there 'blues' album. I have to admitt I feel a certain pain when I listen to this album. I feel spiritual when I listen to Lateralus and I feel disheartened when I listen to this album. I think that's why a lot of people are having a hard time swallowing 10k Days. You can't just bang your head to it, it doesn't make you feel 'good' inside. I have to admit I get pretty angry by the end of Right in Two, not in a bad way, but in an 'awakening' way.

As I'm typing this, I just realized that Maynard has mad Judith a sort of deity in this album. 'Your the ONLY one who can hold your head up high' Why is she the only one? If she gets her wings, then she would be one of the 'angels on the sideline' in Right in Two. It seems that this album is disappointed in everyone except for Judith.

I end up feeling mad at the world for what it's become these days as well. It's so hard to find people nowadays that give two shits about anybody but themselves let alone the human race in general. It's so so sad what we've become and where our priorities as a civilization have been directed at. I listen to Right In Two and it just makes me want to cry in disappointment at ourselves.

I think when Maynard says you're the only one..about Judith he doesn't mean she's the ONLY one but perhaps out of everyone or everything HE knows. I'm sure he's aware there are many heaven deserving people out there but it's so scarce. He probably feels she's one of the very few that truly had a good heart and deserved it.

Caduceus11
07-20-2006, 11:59 AM
....I haven't yet, but I will read this entire thread here....this is what I've been looking for....there's a lot of these people whom ignite the fires of this shame you've discussed even here on toolnavy....
However, the fact of the matter is, this is emotion..love. Its within your own perception what the disk means to you. I understand what you are saying, but there's more to it than....to me....

Caduceus11
07-21-2006, 06:27 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to make shame the main theme here....while it has its role.
If anyone here has lost someone close to them recently, you will realize that the experience marks the end of a chapter of your life. You realize that you're day is closer than before. So what happens is that you start to analyze your life; your soul. You become "conscious of our fleeting time here" and decide to bring your Fibonicci closer to the golden mean....read up on sacred geometry....TOOL will make a lot more sense to you. While shame has its role, its more of an awakening. Yes, maybe a little shame about yesterday, but too late for yesterday...the future beholds great things for those whom have opened their 3rd eye and REALLY see the truth....