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InsolentBystander
07-18-2006, 10:34 AM
This is my first post. Hello everybody. I'm Brent.

Many people have mentioned the "recycled riffs from 'Schism'" (i.e. the triplets and the drone riff). I personally feel that it's over the top to say that if two riffs are played in a similar style or with the same technique (palm-muting or whatever) that the one that came second is recycled. I also think that it's giving a band too much credit to justify your belief of this unoriginality by saying this was done for a purpose - to connect two songs.

However, the more I listen to 10,000 Days (which now may have overtaken Lateralus as my fav album) the more I think this may be exactly what Tool have done. I.e. "We've already given our message. Here's a different angle. Refer back to 'Schism' then come back." Some may feel this to be a copout but I think it's pretty clever.

"Vicarious", to me, is about the cause and effect of a schism. It's about relationships breaking down because people don't pay enough attention to "supposed lovers/brothers", living vicariously through their TV families instead and never nurturing their own. The opening lines refer not only to what the protagonist of "Vicarious" watches on TV for cheap thrills, but also to the extreme result of the breaking down of relationships in the first place. It's cyclic. Tragedy thrills us which results in tragedy. All the lines refer to people, who should be close, killing one another. Except "drowned by the ocean", which may be suicide Virginia Wolff style, or perhaps it's a metaphor for tears of sadness (lol. Longshot).

"I need to watch things die... from a distance." We are willing to watch the lives of others, but we put very little effort into our own. We are cowardly and afraid. We watch our own relationships die and do nothing because we are all too willing to consume and not willing to produce, to create, to nurture.

It's almost as if human nature is to want to see things fall apart because happiness can never be as exciting as turmoil. Plus it takes more work than unhappiness. We sabotage our own lives. We want war, we want to fight. We watch things happen even though we have the power to stop them. We want to see how far things will go. If we see something bad is about to happen we let it happen because we want to watch the aftermath. This is how relationships fall apart. This of course spirals out on a grand scale. Let's not forget that the actual meaning of the word "schism" is for a group to split into two factions. This brings us neatly to "Right in Two."

Instead of consuming so many of other people's lives and ideas perhaps we should communicate properly with our loved ones and build our relationships. You know, "Think globally, act locally" as they say. Put off the TV, talk to your wife.

And "Apathy breeds ignorance".

"The universe is hostile, so impersonal. So it is, so it's always been." I'm glad Maynard said this. People are always telling me that the world is getting worse, and I reply by saying: "No, it's the same world it's always been, you're just more exposed to the negatives because of the sensationalist mass media." It's funny that the people who complain are the one's who never stop watching. Negativity breeds negativity.

Omar Rodriguez-Mopez
07-18-2006, 10:48 AM
Interesting idea.

Old formula
07-21-2006, 03:53 AM
Then again, what happens if you act optimistically but still think negatively?
I think both of them (feelings) can coexist, and surely you can expect people not to practice what they preach - in this case complaining about quality of, say, TV and their relationships in general -, but doing nothing to change things ("stare like a zombie").

Don't know if I'd call that a (sub)conscious desire to fuck things up, though I think disasters can be somewhat cathartic at times ("Tragedy thrills me", "I need to watch things die from a good safe distance"). Like when rich people get shot, one might relate to them, cause no matter what you do or got, death is certain.

Turmoils do sound more exciting than happiness cause we have the need for the wrong things, like money over professional success, loyalty instead of true friendship and stability/physical fulfillment over real love.
It's easier to conform than to combat, but that ultimately leads (us) to an unhappy life, and in that sense I think we unconsciously reach for tragedy and turmoil.

Insanekat
08-01-2006, 03:09 PM
InsolentBystander, I agree with everything you said in that post. I can't really offer up anything useful because anything that I would like to add has been covered. But maybe I'll think of something later, who knows.

Jimmeny
08-01-2006, 03:32 PM
After the first paragraph I thought you were going to become one to add to the ranks of '10,000 Days has absolutely no relation to previous stuff at all' people. But in actual fact your post was a good read and kind of reflects what I've been trying to say in the past - and that is, that Tool have deliberately placed this album in the shadow of their previous stuff musically, just like, as you describe, the lyrics gain a certain context from the shadow of their former message.

When people us the word 'recycled', those who disagree tend to make inaccurate assumptions of the point - they think by 'recycled' we mean unintentionally, and that the music is a generic rip off. However, I think alot of the people that say the riffs are 'recycled' realise that Tool are good enough musicians to realise if the were copying themselves accidentally, and believe that it is deliberate. The people that raise the point of recycled riffs are usual on the fence as to whether what Tool have done is actually good or bad, I think it's more about pointing it out to those that can't (or don't want to) hear it.

To be fair, Tool haven't just 'played things in a similar style' or used generic techniques like palm muting, there are references in tone and timbre, in the actual notes, direct referencing of samples (The Grudge sample IS in Rosetta Stoned, Eon Blue Apocalypse IS in Intension), but as I say, I don't point these things out to say if they are good or bad, I just think they are a deliberate contextual songwriting technique that Tool have tried to use.

lizbiz
08-02-2006, 05:06 AM
As you were going on about linking the message to past Tool albums, I couldn't believe you didn't mention this line from Vicarious:

But pull your head on out your hands please
And give a listen
SHOULDN'T HAVE TO SAY IT ALL AGAIN!

Lines like this scare me into thinking Maynard is frustrated delivering his message.
Are they continuing their message? Absolutely! Read this article, it'll blow your mind.

http://boyswearpants.powerblogs.com/...47134767.shtml

It's about the relationship between Tool's music and Kundalini Yoga. It should also be noted that at the end of the Parablola video, there is a Kundalini transformation, also a picture of the Kundalini Snake in the 10k Days artwork, and finally there are 7 images in the album artwork relating to the 7 stages of alchemy, transforming lead into gold (transmutate these leaden grudges into gold - The Grudge), which may have something to do with the 7 chakras of the Kundalini.

phdmatt2002
08-09-2006, 06:31 AM
a few weeks ago this guy stole an 18 wheeler and held a woman hostage while she drove it from Dallas through FT worth Texas (you might have seen it on TV) i like to watch my sunday evening cartoons but missed them because every newstation had to show the same stupid truck driving ~20 MPH.

What was interesting is that the further the truck drove down the road the more people were standing on the overpasses and along side of the road. A week later in the newspaper one reporter had interviewd one of the people standing on the overpass. He said "i wanted to be here incase the bullets started flying."

the news stations showed this truck driving down the freeway to inform people to avoid that area of I-20, but instead it caused a massive backup as people flocked to see this bright red truck drive down the road real slow with no tires.

Koan
09-07-2006, 01:26 PM
As you were going on about linking the message to past Tool albums, I couldn't believe you didn't mention this line from Vicarious:

But pull your head on out your hands please
And give a listen
SHOULDN'T HAVE TO SAY IT ALL AGAIN!

Lines like this scare me into thinking Maynard is frustrated delivering his message.
Are they continuing their message? Absolutely! Read this article, it'll blow your mind.

http://boyswearpants.powerblogs.com/...47134767.shtml

It's about the relationship between Tool's music and Kundalini Yoga. It should also be noted that at the end of the Parablola video, there is a Kundalini transformation, also a picture of the Kundalini Snake in the 10k Days artwork, and finally there are 7 images in the album artwork relating to the 7 stages of alchemy, transforming lead into gold (transmutate these leaden grudges into gold - The Grudge), which may have something to do with the 7 chakras of the Kundalini.

Don't forget the Tree of Sephiroth behind Danny Carey, I think everyone is seeing the alchemy thing while all the hints point at Kabbala. Crowley studies people.

duncang
09-13-2006, 06:39 AM
I'm certainly agreeing with you when you say that some of the new songs are giving the message that they are older songs from a different angle. They are, in a vastly more subtle way, studio versions of Salival Pushit, based around past songs, with enough new elements in them to make sure they weren't just putting out a remix album. For example, Intension and Parabol, both of them are relaxed, calm songs that precede their bigger brother. Both have lyrical meaning, and their following songs are advancements on the concepts the previous brought about in your brain, ready for the full blast of what Tool are trying to say.

paraflux
09-13-2006, 09:41 AM
Yes, I too (http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=46306) think the idea is, "Do it yourself, we've already told you about it, what more do you want from us."

stardragonii
10-04-2006, 12:07 PM
And "Apathy breeds ignorance".

"The universe is hostile, so impersonal. So it is, so it's always been." I'm glad Maynard said this. People are always telling me that the world is getting worse, and I reply by saying: "No, it's the same world it's always been, you're just more exposed to the negatives because of the sensationalist mass media." It's funny that the people who complain are the one's who never stop watching. Negativity breeds negativity.

I love your perspective on this, I would quote your whole post but I completely agree 100%.