You been to the Gap lately?

[hyeboy]

“Ever have some one love you so much that they tried to kill you? Or perhaps suck you down into a hole, and you had to kill them to get away? Me either.”

-Maynard (live during a show in Houston before playing Pushit)

I’ve noticed that many Tool fans have this perception that everything written by the band is in the first person or is about a personal experience that Maynard has endeavored. Perhaps I’m off and this is an account of a personal relationship, but to me this sounds like a third person point of view, a sort of “this is what you’re acting like” approach to confronting an observed conflict.

This piece to me is the theme song for the motto that the vast majority of physical relationships are based on: An abusive relationship is better than no relationship, a syndrome that has plagued mankind since the beginning of time. A person finds a couple things in common with another person, and BAM, suddenly this is grounds for a relationship and even marriage. At least it makes the most sense to me in this way, most likely because I can relate to this. How many times have they had some uneducated, sexist white trash on the Jerry Springer show screaming at his woman, “She knows where her place is! She knows I’m the king and she ain’t nothing but a stupid bitch”? And it's not just an American thing eiter. My parents are from Armenia, and my dad beat my mom black and blue since the day they met. Yet, she still married him, had us and watched us also get beaten severely, and to this day still says we should all be together. The need to be with someone and to have another assign us a role in life over rides all sensibility, no matter how unhealthy this person is for you. The subconscious knows it’s wrong, but those doubts are suppressed, sunken deep into the shadows of this masquerade. And yet, when these people are asked why they put up with it, why any sane person would tolerate this, the rebuttal is always, “because I love him!”

LOVE WHAT? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? You FEAR him! Worse yet, you FEAR being WITHOUT him! That has nothing to do with love! “There’s no love in fear!” There is a gap before you, a gap between having your own life/freedom and the black hole this person has sucked you down into. These are the moments when those doubts surface, emerging from the murky abyss of our sea of repressed thoughts. “I saw the gap again today, but you were begging me to stay.” Notice she encounters this thought in the opening line, and again at the end. The bridge in the middle part, “I am somewhere I don’t want to be”. Listen to the music at this point. It is an eerie yet calm moment, almost as if the person is lost in the memories and is reflecting on what the relationship has become. That’s the beauty of Tool’s music. Maynard writes the lyrics to match the mood the melody is presenting. Another example, you can feel the tension build up before the “chorus” if you want to call it that of “You still love me…pushit on me”.

By the end, although this usually doesn’t happen, in this case “(I) managed to push myself away and you as well my dear”. She over comes the “I’m scared of dieing alone” disease. In some cases, it’s fearing that person may even kill YOU if you try to leave. The roles are set, everyone has their part, and if you try to destroy that order/cycle by leaving, I may be forced to eliminate you! It’s a dependency issue, a sign of insecurity again leading back to the human fear of “not knowing who we are or where we are headed in this ocean of chaos.” And so, we have a tendency of clinging on to things we know are not good for us but provide us with comfort at the moment, the eternal need for a security blanket. It’s time as a people to see past this!!! GET OVER IT! Suffocate the dependency. IT WILL END NO OTHER WAY!

[Smokin joe]

nice post man. Really a lot of well interpretted information in that. I wish i could say more, but i really have no good input at the moment. I just read the post and thought that it was a good interpretation.

It makes a lot of sense, it's an excellent song that definitely would capture the sense of emotion through the music.

joe

[hyeboy]

Thank you for the kind words. I never assume to have the correct meaning (wish more people on this forum wouldn't as well), but the words often create a direction pretty easily for me for things I've witnessed/experienced. I often fear I make my posts too long. But much like Tools songs, they take as long as they need to reach the desired end result which is provoking thought. Not just about annalyzing the lyrics, but applying to life in general.

[a_divine_martyr]

this is a really good interpretation. i love reading people who can realte to this in a personal experience. i don't think maynard <i>INTENDS</i> to write words with so many meanings. just kind of happens. i dunno, but back on topic, this was a really good interpretation of the song

[Meuterei]

Damn, I really like that!

Excellent interpretation. I'll sort some thoughts out and post more on this later, but I wanted to drop a quick thumbs-up.

Very, very well thought out.

[hyeboy]

Thanks everybody! I love it when someone is effected by a post I've made. Makes the cramps in the hands from writting so much all worth it ;), so thanks for letting me know how you feel about it.

Man, this song still gives me goose bumps EVERY time I hear it. Even though it's been out for six years, I can't get tired of it and it hasn't lost any of its emotional power, either!

Meuterei, what part of Illinois do you live in? If you want to answer, e-mail me. I don't want anyone getting mad about discussing this over the forum (heaven forbid the members actually get to know each other instead of bashing each other for the "wrong" interpretation, or for believing in a god, etc!)

[kyro]

wow!
i have to admit that was pretty damn mind-blowing. i've been reading the other reviews of pushit and alot of them seem to stick to the idea of the sexual abuse theme. although this may be correct, it just didn't sit quite well in me, i was leaning more towards the idea of a troubled marriage/relationship conflict and your posting spelled out exactly what i was thinking but couldn't quite put into words.

however there was one comment about the line "saw that gap again today" that i felt differently about. in my eyes it seems as though she sees that the man really is as fallible ("gap")as her and as insecure as her "while you were begging me to stay". it then foretells that once she exploits this "gap", it may be the end of their relationship and perhaps even them "take care not to make me enter...cause if i do we both may disappear".

either way, fantastic posting. it's my favourtite tool song and it keeps giving me goosebumps each time i hear it

[2L8665]

As I had posted on this forum under "this is about maynard's son", the "gap" probably comes from a quote made by the author of "Nothing in This Book Is True, But It's Exactly How Things Are", Bob Frissell. He stated that "The gap between the way in which you have evolved and the way in which you haven't is getting greater and greater with the years. It is almost large enough to kill you." I also posted my take on Pushit under that subject title.

[Torpid_Prey]

thats an outstanding interpritation of the song. i gotta be honest with u all first, i thought read the follow up posts, before i read the first post, just because of the fact that its the longest post ive ever seen, igoring the fact that most long posts are the best ones - ill keep that in mind now - and well i guess i gotta say, then when kyro said he thought the song was about the sexual abouse issue, but it didnt sit with him, i started thinking, (because i originally thought it was the sexual abouse issue) so i thought maybe i shuld read it, seeing as soo many people have read it and say its fantastic, i thought maybe i should give it a shot.

the supprising thing though, as i was reading it, i was thinking to myself, that is almost exactly how i was thinking of it, but with only a few minor differences, but then it just hit me - this is what i was trying to get out of it all along, i just didnt have the 'personal experience' to help me with it all. my parents are fine with each other so i didn't have the background of bad relationships to help me with my interpritation. Thanx man for helpng me firgure out the complete meaning behind pushit. and i too get goose bumps whenever i listen to it. its just purely ground breaking stuff.

also, i dont know how many music players actually listen to this song, but did anyone realise that the snares are not on the snare drum throughout the whole song? its got a kinda bongo sound to it, but its a lot more pronounced. listen for it next time u hear the song - its just interesting to think about it, seeing as the song sounds perfect without it - its as if danny carey knows exactly what mood he neds and how to get it for each song.

email me if u have any other comments, disagreements or agreements for me at [email protected]
(i have msn messenger also)

or u can just post a reply with quote whichevers easier :)


']['ørpîd ]?rêÿ

[hyeboy]

2L8665:

This quote sounds merely like another way of phrasing what I was trying to say. Being in a relationship like this causes a lack of evolution, and the longer you stay in it, the greater the gap of "what you might have been" grows. "If when I say I may fade like a sigh if I stay, you minimize my movement anyway". This person/situation is preventing your growth as a separate entity or being. He/she is widening your gap from the way you could have evolved.

That's a great quote. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I have heard of the book several times, but have never looked into it. Sounds like it's definitely worth a read.


Torpid_Prey:

You, my friend, are a lucky person. I don't know of any non-dysfunctional relationships myself. This is not to say all of them are as extreme as what I've witnessed/gone through, but to some degree, in one form or another, they are far from a "happy" or "complete" relationship. Sometimes it's merely a lack of communication, or shrugging off comments and interests of one another as unimportant. Others are a bit more severe to put it mildly. Never have I run into a couple that appear to be "soul mates" or completely happy with each other. All of them appear merely to be facades, aimed at fooling and comforting themselves as well as other

I wish my mom could have said "managed to push myself away," but like I said that doesn't happen too often. I am just grateful that I have the presence of mind to be aware of what is happening and to not repeat the cycle. If I had experienced this or not, I'm confident I would have gotten the same meaning out of these lyrics. I could sense that this was the meaning to the song well before I heard Maynard’s quote.

Why is everyone in such a rush to find somebody to be with? With all there is to learn, see, and do in our current "reality", why are sex, money, and loneliness the only things people are concerned with, the only thing people put effort into or concentrate on? Why can't people just be preoccupied with exploring and tasting life? I fear with each generation, hope is fleeting, strength is quickly withering, and soon all that will remain are empty shells, living carcass transporting numbed, frozen minds existing only in apathy.

**God, if you really are up there, do me a really hugh favor and HELP US ALL!**

[Torpid_Prey]

you may think that im lucky. my parents are content with one another, my mum gets gets frustrated at times but thats only natural. not to mention i havent spoken to my (step)dad (even though were in the same house) for quite some time. but thats not what i'm talking about right now. I have been in a kind of "relationship" myself - one that ended for good just yesterday. the relationship was quite a bit like the song H. (and i intend on reading and posing something there today after i finish this one.)

i felt like i had to be with her - i dont know why - possibly because she liked me (past tense) and i know its not like that now. i tried, but she shat in my face. shed flirt with me, get me excited, then drop me like a sack of shit (not literally of course), ignore me, get it on with someone else - u name it. i tell you now i will not let her screw me around any longer.

Its almost like i have to kill her to get away (not that i will, never fear im not a psychopath) but she restricts all that i do, "if when i say i might fade like a sigh if i stay, you minimize my movement anyway. i must persuade you another way" the only catch is, is there is no way to persude her.

this will be all i will say about that because it is pretty personal (believe me, theres plenty more) - i just felt i needed to give the readers some background. but i tell you this. you, my friend are a true hero. ur last quote really opened my eyes.
Originally posted by hyeboy
Why is everyone in such a rush to find somebody to be with? With all there is to learn, see, and do in our current "reality", why are sex, money, and loneliness the only things people are concerned with, the only thing people put effort into or concentrate on? Why can't people just be preoccupied with exploring and tasting life? I fear with each generation, hope is fleeting, strength is quickly withering, and soon all that will remain are empty shells, living carcass transporting numbed, frozen minds existing only in apathy.
it made me realise that she isnt everything. she was last year, but not any more. now i can say goodbye for good and not have to feel sad or guilty. i dont know why i do, its just me.

[email protected]
']['ørpîd ]?rêÿ

[Jebus]

Wow. That's a good interpretation. Good posts by Torpid_prey and 2L8665 too. I've never had any experiences which I could relate to pushit (which is weird, cause it's my favourite song). Knowing that there is people out there who really have (or know someone who has) been through a relationship where the trust, or the love (among other things) has been abused really puts it into perspective.

I've got some pretty deep thoughts on this, but they won't come out. Maybe I'll get back to this later.

[hyeboy]

Torpid_Prey:

Thanks torpid. I'm glad I could be of help, but never give ANYONE the status of hero. People shouldn't be rewarded for what SHOULD be a natural reaction. I would hope helping one another would be second nature. But I guess since the world is going to Hell in a hand basket, when ever someone does something with out any alternative motive involved, we find it odd and rare, thus thinking we owe something for it. I'd much rather take the Maynard approach and throw out random ideas aninomously. Take the ideas, just like his lyrics, and apply them to your life as you best see fit. Or, if you don't see it as intelligent, discard it all together. By far, the best advice I can give you is to take a good long hard look at everything you do in life and ask yourself why you do it. I mean really analyze it. It is the best way to avoid unhealthy situations like what you have gone through. Good luck in life, and remember "be patient".

(If you ever want to IM me to talk, my MSN, Yahoo!, and AOL messenger nick is Pont6K)

Thank you to everyone else who wrote in to say they liked the inerpratation. Much appreciated!!!

[flipmojo]

Having been in a marriage for almost 7 years now, I really do have a good grasp of what you are saying. You have to realize though, that you came from an abusive family. That is something that has been incorporated into your person now. I say that not to point a finger but to tell you that there are good relationships.

There are no relationships that are always good. People change so much. The only way to stay happy in a relationship is to communicate. My wife and I have been through some of our toughtest times, in the past 2 years, and we still love each other. We made it through BECAUSE we stuck it out. Now, we are much happier and even closer. You have to stick it out sometimes. I'm not saying stick it out through something extremely abusive. But it takes hard work to make a relationship last a lifetime. Its called loyalty. It goes a long way. The situation with your parents sounds very abusive. No one should be beaten black and blue. That IS NOT love and certainly doesn't deserve loyalty. Best Wishes.

Honest communication is the key to any great relationship.

[hyeboy]

You're absolutely right. There is no such thing as a relationship that is perfect all the time. I would actually be quit worried if I ever ran into that. That would either be a miracle, or ignorance on the part of both parties. Obviously disagreements and conflicts arise in any type of relationship. But that's not what I'm talking about.

What I'm referring to is the fact that there is no strong foundation to begin with for just about ever relationship I've seen. You can see there's no "magic" there, if you will. Merely two people who don't want to be lonely and want to feel loved. These emotions are manifested into a tangible form by forging another entity to the likeness of your "ideal soul mate" for the sake of protecting ones self against these insecurities. For the most part, the eyes are shut to the truth or the lack of substance in the relationship. I am NOT saying anything at all about your relationship because I know nothing about it and that would be an ignorant/arrogant thing to do on my part. I'm just relaying to you what I have seen by personal experience.

Why do you think the divorce rate is so high these days? It would have been high all along, but once upon a time it was shameful to get a divorce, no matter what the circumstances. Yes, some of it is on account of people changing, but I really don't think that's usually the case. I see it more as the facade you are in finally crumbling. There's only so long you can play this game of pretend before the veil drops. Once you see the ugly truth behind it, the hostility towards one another starts. Then, the enivetable divorce, the grand finally to the sherade.

The problem boils down to "the matrix" we're in. All these programmed layers that we are burried under, all these "proper" behaviors we are taught. We are told that you must marry and have kids to be on the "right path". So, for the sake of not feeling inadequate, we rush into finding someone, be it "the one for me" or not. One more item marked off the check list of life!

Case in point, my little sister's best friend's parents had the seemingly "perfect" relationship. I had the oppurtunity to spend a large amount of time with them about 2 years ago. I could sense that something wasn't right. They just didn't seem very happy. The husband more so then the wife, but both unhappy none the less. I told my sister I'm not sure how they "found each other" or why they got married, but they weren't compatible. She was a little offended by this. I apoligized, but said I just call them like I see them. About four months ago, the husband asked for a divorce which came as a total shock to the wife. Meanwhile, it didn’t even faze me because I could see it coming.

You are right once again that growing up in my family, I have a different perspective that is embedded in my persona. But I look at it as a blessing, for it has given me the ability to detach myself from any situation emotionally and allowed me to view it unbiased, leaving me only with feeling the vibes that are presented by individuals. If more people would do the same, maybe there wouldn't be so many chaotic relationships and perhaps better decision making skills over all in life. But alas, I fear there is only one moto that most live by: Ignorance is Bliss.

[pushit_kirsty]

i think this thread has gone off a little bit of a tangent.

anyway, in relation to the first thought, about the power of abusive relationships, I would have to agree that this is most likely the reason it is my favourite song.

For 16 years i have watched my mother go back to the same man (if he deserves that title) after he has thrown her down stairs, pretended to kill himslef... and all so she wouldnt leve him. Only today she took him back again after he accused her of sleeping with the boss at her work xmas party, and then proceeded to smash windows at home.

I have been trying to tell her for year s that they DO NOT love each other... but until reading this thread, i could never verbalise it. There is no love in fear...

But i do disagree that love is a negative thing (thats the vibe im getting) because i am in a three year relationship, that has many flaws... but is very satisfying and filled with mutual respect trust etc... its hard to find but it does happen.

So thanks to hyeboy and everyone else. sometimes it really does help to talk about things.

[pushtheenvelope]

Hyeboy my friend, in my eyes you have nailed it.

Not just your thoughts on Pushit, but indeed your insights into The Patient, and the surprising number of unbelievably relevant references to the Matrix. Your thoughts have rejuventated and refreshed me.

I know this thread probably isn't the most appropriate forum, however, I just need a kickstart, and thus, "the time is now". I have already posted one bullshit message here, without success, and without the obvious intuitive understanding of the notion "right timing". So here goes.

To be completely open and frank with a complete stranger (martyrdom unintended), I feel the burning need to share my own insights with you. I have so much to say, learn, and translate, and I simply don't know where to start. For years I've searched, pissfarting around on Toolchat (ultimately lacking the patience to make any sort of real connection, or even communicating with any common sense), reading the thousands of interesting, valid and sometimes not so intelligent posts through the old and new opinion forums (although this opinion software kicks ass Toolshed!!!). I'm a member of a Jung yahoo group, have some of Leary and Grey's masterpieces, but again, I am yet to make that 'ting' connection with any specific individual (although many have echoed my thoughts frequently, and that's the beauty of this forum). I feel completely alienated at home (although I have a kick-ass time in life) because I feel none of my peers or fellow tool fans (locally) understand what this band means to me, or more importantly, the POTENTIAL Tool's music can have on the universal well-being of our present and future human race.

While Bill Hicks mentions the power of Mull and Mushies in speeding up the process of evolution, just think of what could happen if every human being on this planet was sychronistically on one big trip, listening to Tool and individually (while at the same time "collectively") tapping into the layers of this "Matrix". "There is so much more that, beckons me, to look through to these, infinite possibilities...."

You have spoken about the notion of 'unplugging' and it's personal importance. Well I most certainly agree. I would love to share my views with you and with all the open-minded Toolfreaks out there as to how I attempt to unplug, but more importantly, to THINK through "seeing" and "feeling".

Thanks Hyeboy, and to those who have had the patience to sit through this chunk of mindless babble. Let's all help each other pry open those hidden little compartments in our foreheads. I need nourishment. Let's feed each other.

Tool is my compass in life.

:)(:

[chafro]

utterly amazing, this song rings so true for you and the emotion was so high and thick

[A groan]

excellent post ....you have found you r piece of the song Tool wants us all to find in there songs.

[hyeboy]

For pushit_kirsty, I didn’t mean that love is a negative thing. I'm just questioning what people consider love. People throw that word around much too easily with no sustenance or meaning behind it when, all too often, love has nothing to do with it! Like I said before, people just find a few things in common with each other, and suddenly they're in love. I'm not saying love doesn't exist. But because there is so much pressure from ourselves as well as others to find "the one", people tend to get into a relationship that should have never taken place, perhaps even missing the "real" one along the way.

For pushtheenvelope, I'm glad that you have stumbled upon my threads. It's always great to hear another voice that understands. It helps to alleviate some of the frustration of getting no where in one's explanations. Feel free to stop by the MSN chat room for !Toolfans (name maybe slightly different on any given night, but you'll get the idea). I'm in their almost every night. I'd love to chat with ya'.

Thank you also to chafro and A groan for the kind words. While I may have some personal stories to relate with my interpretation of this song, I still feel that this theory of the meaning would have been clear to me regardless.

[lalizards]

Heyeboy, I'm sorry, but in response to a post quite a bit up the line, you said you can detach yourself from a situation emotionally, and view it unbiased. I know from experience...there is no unbiased. I have spent more time in my room thinking and listening (not necessarily to music, either) and I have found two things. One-there is no unbiased. Allow me to elaborate. Your past experiences are always going to put a filter over your eyes, regardless of what happens in the future. Your filter may change, somehow, such as how thick it is, or how large it is, and there will always be a way around it, trust me, I know. But my own filter has ruined more relationships than I can count. not even just with girls, either. My own friends have been scared away from me by my tendency to analyze their motives until it drives them nuts from me levelling accusations. I have been told by more than one person with a few too many initials after their name that I exhibit nearly all of the symtpoms for preemergent schizophrenia, and that puts a whole 'nother level into my own dysfunctionality. And two (I hope you didn't forget that there were two parts to this post) (unfortunatly, the second has very little to do with the first, or the point of this post, but it does have something to do with the message of the thread) I have learned that there is no one that can be trusted with anything one-hundred percent. I have never *ever* had a friend that did'nt sell me out to someone else to some degree at least once; be it a secret not kept, or a rumor I was trying to stop the spread of that they promulgated, or telling my EVIL stepfather something I had been keeping secret from even my friends.

[canable friends]

I tend to like to look for the sub meanings and mediforicle parts but your thoughts are increadible, It is odd though that people need each other so much. I've never had a girlfriend before (I'm 14) I really want one, but I know when I get one there will be nothing exiting about it, so I've never really tried, mayby I have looked between the gap, maybe I'm just a geek, but that beyond a thoughtful level can be applied to any aspect of life!!!!!


I give it ***** and two thumbs up!

[Druzzel Dermgo]

Wonderful...all of you feel something personal in these songs...but tell me, do you - any of you - believe that Maynard would write a song having one interpretation in mind? I don't think he - or any of the band, Justin, Adam, Danny, even Paul! - wrote these songs with one unanimous thought involved. I think each had his deffinition of the song in general, and then put his essence into the song.

Now, about the quote from Maynard : maybe he never really has had this kind of experience, maybe he was writing about a friend. Maybe he was writing about his own mother...but I think he was writing about himsel. I think...if you refer to Jimmy...that Maynard is singing about his stepfather...look at Prison Sex, which is supposed to be about Maynard's step father...I mean...it's hard to put someone else's life into words like this song does. When Maynard descrived the song - which I might add, was a description in his words - he said that he has never loved someone so much that they would kill him, or that he has never had to kill somone because he loved them, needed to get away from them. I'm not trying to be a sceptic of Maynard - or any of you - but...I mean...look at how he described it! Too perfect. No research, no talking to friends...no talking to your mother can put it into those kind of words. Those words describe a hidden part of one's self. Analyze the music. it ties in with each other too well. Jimmy to this, and then Cesaro Summability to this...then AEnema, which comes out of nowhere telling everyone to swim or die...then Ions...which to me, signigies the world after AEnema (could someone define that term for me? If you don't want to bother anyone on this forum, e-mail me at [email protected])

Well, I've spat at you enough...and I agree/aplaude all of you - to think that people say that music fans...especially rock fans...are mindless zombies with no intelligence who spend money to buy t-shirts and band their heads and kill each other at concerts...hilarious