Intentional ambiguity: A more Tool-esque interpretation of this song

[ArizonaBay]

Ok everyone is going on about how this song is about his son or his mother or whatever. The fact is there is nothing in this song that remotely suggests what Maynard is desperate not to lose. I believe this ambiguity is intentional.

So here is my interpretation of this song which has turned out to be more in keeping with the themes of earlier Tool songs such as Lateralus or 4 degrees - the idea of letting go.

This song is about holding something at the centre of your life and grasping it at the expense of everything else (you would wish everything away to hold on to it). Maynard sings "dim my eyes if they should compromise a fulcrum." (fulcrum being the point from which a pendulum swings it remains static as the world turns - the Hermetic meaning of this is as a metaphor for belief i.e. the static centre to which all else revolves in your life whether this be religion, political ideology, material ambition, or whatever). In other words i will not see the truth if it will destroy my centre. Maynard seems to think this grasping is negative. This is because we all hang or pendulums in different places; we all have different sets of wants and beliefs which divide us. Our narrator in this song (maybe not literally Maynard just like in Stinkfist or Vicarious) kneels away his centre i.e. gives it up and sees the truth of unity the light of universal balance as "benevolent sun" and sees that if we divide we "wither away".

[swampyfool]

Not bad at all . . .

[JOK3R]

i like this interpretation

[JambiSober]

and I thought it was a love song....

[J Stebbins]

I like the interpretations that suggest a more general meaning, like you said, about it being something you would grasp/hold on to even at the expense of everything else.

Rather then some of the meanings that suggested it being about his son or mother, I also think it could be anything in general to somebody.

Right on.

[bellamadia]

Excellent interpretation.... If I may elaborate on your thoughts...

Disclaimer* I copied these lyrics off a post so they may not be 100% accurate...

"Hear from the king's mountain view
Here from the wild dream come true
Feast like a sultan I do
On treasures and flesh, never few.

But I, I would wish it all away
If I thought I'd Lose you just one day"

I will often use Taoist beliefs as a reference here because I think many of TOOL's lyrics embrace these beliefs (whether intentional or not). I will also use the word “he,” but I am not implying Maynard exactly, but whoever’s perspective this song is told from.
The above lines embrace the Taoist belief that you must not hold on to material possesions because they encourage greed, war, jealousy, etc. The more you have, the more you have to fear losing. Taoists believe that you must live in your center, not for your senses; The things that stimulate your senses only remove you from the Tao (or the way of the universe). Therefore, living for your senses would make you lose your center. You would have to wish it all away in order to keep it.

“The devil and his had me down
In love with the dark side I've found.
Dabblin' all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown.

But you changed that all for me
Lifted me up, turned me round
So I, I would....Wish this all away”

Here, “he” is elaborating on what I mentioned above. He was misguided, greedy, lustful, etc. He became lost on his senses and began to drown in them…. until he found his center. He became in touch with “the way” and has been lifted above those things that rule humans and remove us from our center and truth.

“Prayed like a martyr dusk til dawn
Begged like a hooker all night long
Tempted the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along

But I, I would, If I could, And I would, Wish it away, Wanna wish it all away”

Perhaps here is talking about being caught up in dogma, your religion, your preconceived notions of what you were taught to do… pray for help and assistance… which us humans distorted into thinking we could literally beg God for things (much like a hooker begs for sex and money) and God just delivers.

“No cross you could hold
Sway or justify my giving away my center

So if I could I'd wish it all away
If I thought tomorrow would take you away
You're my peace of mind, my home, my center.”

So to build of what I said above, here he has become enlightened to the way of the universe, so no religion, no dogma, no preconceived notions, nor society could make him turn away from what he sees as truth. He has found it through his center and is now at peace. Again, this is very Taoist in nature.

I'm just trying to hold on
One more day
Damn my eyes, Dim my eyes
Dim my eyes if they should
Compromise our fulcrum
Want and need divide me
Then I might as well be gone.

I think the original poster of this thread summed this up well, and it is in tune with what I am saying here. I particularly love the “want and need divide me” line. I think he means that it divides him from the way of the universe. Taoists believe that these desires and the idea of self, divide you from the unity of the universe. It is not until you give these things up that you realize that you are not alone in this world. We are all part of the way, and when you give yourself up to it, your fears, greed, etc. dissolve.

I omitted the remainder of the lyrics here as they seem to elaborate on what I am saying above. That, and this is a REALLY long post. I have so much more I'd like to say on the subject but I might get flamed for taking up an entire page.

[Terry21]

Holy shit. I just thought of Maynard's mother's religion and "then I might as well be gone". Freaky.

[ArizonaBay]

Excellent interpretation.... If I may elaborate on your thoughts...

Disclaimer* I copied these lyrics off a post so they may not be 100% accurate...

"Hear from the king's mountain view
Here from the wild dream come true
Feast like a sultan I do
On treasures and flesh, never few.

But I, I would wish it all away
If I thought I'd Lose you just one day"

I will often use Taoist beliefs as a reference here because I think many of TOOL's lyrics embrace these beliefs (whether intentional or not). I will also use the word “he,” but I am not implying Maynard exactly, but whoever’s perspective this song is told from.
The above lines embrace the Taoist belief that you must not hold on to material possesions because they encourage greed, war, jealousy, etc. The more you have, the more you have to fear losing. Taoists believe that you must live in your center, not for your senses; The things that stimulate your senses only remove you from the Tao (or the way of the universe). Therefore, living for your senses would make you lose your center. You would have to wish it all away in order to keep it.

“The devil and his had me down
In love with the dark side I've found.
Dabblin' all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown.

But you changed that all for me
Lifted me up, turned me round
So I, I would....Wish this all away”

Here, “he” is elaborating on what I mentioned above. He was misguided, greedy, lustful, etc. He became lost on his senses and began to drown in them…. until he found his center. He became in touch with “the way” and has been lifted above those things that rule humans and remove us from our center and truth.

“Prayed like a martyr dusk til dawn
Begged like a hooker all night long
Tempted the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along

But I, I would, If I could, And I would, Wish it away, Wanna wish it all away”

Perhaps here is talking about being caught up in dogma, your religion, your preconceived notions of what you were taught to do… pray for help and assistance… which us humans distorted into thinking we could literally beg God for things (much like a hooker begs for sex and money) and God just delivers.

“No cross you could hold
Sway or justify my giving away my center

So if I could I'd wish it all away
If I thought tomorrow would take you away
You're my peace of mind, my home, my center.”

So to build of what I said above, here he has become enlightened to the way of the universe, so no religion, no dogma, no preconceived notions, nor society could make him turn away from what he sees as truth. He has found it through his center and is now at peace. Again, this is very Taoist in nature.

I'm just trying to hold on
One more day
Damn my eyes, Dim my eyes
Dim my eyes if they should
Compromise our fulcrum
Want and need divide me
Then I might as well be gone.

I think the original poster of this thread summed this up well, and it is in tune with what I am saying here. I particularly love the “want and need divide me” line. I think he means that it divides him from the way of the universe. Taoists believe that these desires and the idea of self, divide you from the unity of the universe. It is not until you give these things up that you realize that you are not alone in this world. We are all part of the way, and when you give yourself up to it, your fears, greed, etc. dissolve.

I omitted the remainder of the lyrics here as they seem to elaborate on what I am saying above. That, and this is a REALLY long post. I have so much more I'd like to say on the subject but I might get flamed for taking up an entire page.

Great interpretation - yes i think you have clarified something there for me - the song is not about giving away your centre to find this 'benevolent sun' the benevolent sun is the centre. Dim my eyes to remove the illusion of reality. I starting to think Maynard may be a modern Gnostic, his work with a perfect circle was certainly this way inclined and here his deriding of physical reality as percieved through the senses is a very Gnostic like.

[bellamadia]

Great interpretation - yes i think you have clarified something there for me - the song is not about giving away your centre to find this 'benevolent sun' the benevolent sun is the centre. Dim my eyes to remove the illusion of reality. I starting to think Maynard may be a modern Gnostic, his work with a perfect circle was certainly this way inclined and here his deriding of physical reality as percieved through the senses is a very Gnostic like.

Thanks! While I certainly don't know a ton about Gnosticism, I'm curious how (aside from you state above) you think Maynard is Gnostic? From my understanding of Gnosticism, I can't make the connection.

[wearethestories]

Thanks! While I certainly don't know a ton about Gnosticism, I'm curious how (aside from you state above) you think Maynard is Gnostic? From my understanding of Gnosticism, I can't make the connection.
mehhh...

Gnosticism is foolish:
It's the belief that there is some secret knowledge in the universe that, once one understands it, one can be "free" from everything else in the world (i.e. the body, the flesh, etc). There have always been and will always be those who think that if they somehow "find" that special "meaning" (ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE INTELLECTUAL, NEVER EMOTIONAL OR EXPERIENTIAL... just pure REASON) then all the puzzle pieces will fit into this great jigsaw life and they will finally KNOW. It is, in essence, a great big wild goose chase for the "secret knowledge of the world".

Aside from my personal views on gnosticism, I doubt if Maynard is a gnostic - they tend to believe in enlightenment through the mind alone, and that the deeds of the body mean nothing once the mind is preserved (i.e. it's cool to do whatever you want with your body; destroy it with drugs, physical violence, who cares, because once your mind is SAFE from (????) then nothing else matters). I would bet that even if Maynard were to subscribe to the initial intellectualism of gnostic belief, he would reject the idea that the deeds of the body don't matter --- in everything he's ever written, it seems that the deeds of the body DO matter to him greatly (this is one of the bones he picks with the "hypocrites" in Wings/10000Days). With the "knowledge", Maynard would (most likely) say that it must be put to use for the good of all mankind --- something that the gnostics don't really care much about as their belief system is inherently selfish (not seeking to share such knowledge, only to obtain it and then live however they choose).

I know I quote the Bible quite a bit (and bellamadia, you're probably tired of it) but many of the Epistles found after the Gospels in the New Testament are specifically written to warn early Christians of gnosticism as heresy BECAUSE it doesn't account for how we choose to live --- it is, in effect, the easy way out. For Christians (and I think most people who have a desire to live a certain way with certain morals) gnosticism replaces an external set of morals with the "freedom" to do whatever you want --- which is an interesting segue into a talk about Right In Two ("why did Father give these humans FREE WILL, now they're all CONFUSED")...

[bellamadia]

Wearethestories- Thanks for elaborating on that. That was sort of my understanding, which is why I couldn't make the connection of gnosticism to Maynard. I agree with your thoughts.

I think perhaps ArizonaBay took what I was saying about the whole "not living through your senses" thing to a more extreme level and applied it to the gnostic idea that your body doesn't matter. (I'm not insulting you Arizona, we have different interpretations, it's all good). As I said, many of his lyrics seem more Taoist in nature... and in fact, the body does matter in Taoism, but only as it serves the Tao, not the idea of self.

Oh, and I don't mind you quoting the bible. If you believe it supports your position, you should use any tools you have at your diposal.

Sorry I didn't take the segue into Right in Two... I wanted to stay on subject with the thread.

[ArizonaBay]

Err actually Gnosticism is more about the interdependence between consciousness and physical reality although it sees all physical matter as bad and an illusion its doctrine tells us to embrace duality (unlike say, Buddhism) - two becoming one. Ive seen hints of gnosticism in tool but its definately more pronounced in A Perfec Circle with songs such as Magdalana (the exploitation of the sacred feminine, Mary Magdalene) and Sleeping Beauty (the image of the universe as the sleeping goddess is the essence of this fairy tale and the song). Other gnostic referenes in tool include "crucify ego" - the jesus story as allegory and the many references to the physical world being illusion.

To add to the comment that gnostism is selfish because it does not seek to share the knowledge the idea is that the mystic types who held the knowledge only let out the fact there was this secret not the secret itself (if there even was one) the purpose of this is that it all comes down to the search for truth. Is life worth it if all there is is what we see before us? If we believe there is more to it and we search and it gives life more meaning.

But i do agree that songs fits well with Taoism especially if Taoism specifically uses the word centre

[ArizonaBay]

http://www.lauralee.com/audio/asx/111601.asx

Ive posted this before somewhere Laura Lee is an idiot whos seems to believe every nut case who walks into her studio, but the guy talking on this is Timothy Freke who is actually fairly respected (although his website is utter bull) this the second half of two part peice on gnostiscism. I think if i remember rightly he actually uses the phrase two become one which made me go "oh, sounds like Tool" and rewind and listen again.

[bellamadia]

ArizonaBay- Thanks for the further explanation. I see some of you points and how you made the connection. I have been curious in the last day and read up on gnosticism... it is pretty complex and all over the place!!

[bellamadia]

But i do agree that songs fits well with Taoism especially if Taoism specifically uses the word centre

Yes, one in particular fits what we are saying perfect. I have one of my interpretations of the Tao Te Ching here in front of me so here it is....

Chapter 12: Colors

Colors blind people's eyes;
Sounds deafen the ears;
Flavors spoil people's palates;
The chase and the hunt
craze peoples minds;
Goods hard to obtain
make people's actions harmful.
Therefore sages work for the center
and not the eyes,
leaving the latter and taking the former.

[ArizonaBay]

^^ Great, can you recommend any books on this subject it sounds interesting.

[bellamadia]

^^ Great, can you recommend any books on this subject it sounds interesting.

Absolutely. Honestly, this may sound silly but a GREAT place to start is a book called the "Tao of Pooh." It explains the basic ideas of Taoism through the character Winnie the Pooh. Before you laugh, this is by no means a childrens book. It has won awards and recognition from Taoist scholars. It's quite good.

Then I would say that you can dive right in to reading various interpretations of the Tao Te Ching, a book of Taoist teachings whose origins are quite mysterious. It is said that it was started by Lao Tzu, a sage in China during the Chung Dynasty. It seems that the Tao Te Ching was probably written by several sages of hundreds of years.

There are many interpretations of the Tao Te Ching. Some try to stay very close to the Chinese characters (which are difficult to translate to English) while other writers use poetic license to translate it to be more relatable, while still sticking to the meaning.

My favorite translation, and the best one to read as a newbie is The Tao Te Ching of Lao Tzu by Brain Browne Walker.

One that is closer to the chinese characters, but still good is the Taoist Classics by Thomas Cleary. This one has several Taoist writings, which I won't get into now.

No matter which you read, I recommend reading each "chapter" (they are very small) and stoppng to think about what is could mean and how you could apply it to your life and your views. Read a few at a time and eventually it just sets in.

I hope this helps, I think you will find the Taoist philisophies intellectual, persceptive, uplifting and enlightening.

[paraflux]

Wearethestories - I find it hard to read your words because you spoke as if you were a member of the band. I wouldnt appreciate someone trying to say that they knew what I "tended to think."

[1000volts]

While I don't disagree with any correlations between the songs' meaning and gnosticism and Taoism, I'm surprised nobody has discussed or brought up Sacred Geometry yet. I know nothing about it but am taking a crash course on the subject in an attempt to understand the lyrical and musical content of TOOL. Any thoughts?

[bellamadia]

While I don't disagree with any correlations between the songs' meaning and gnosticism and Taoism, I'm surprised nobody has discussed or brought up Sacred Geometry yet. I know nothing about it but am taking a crash course on the subject in an attempt to understand the lyrical and musical content of TOOL. Any thoughts?

Edit* I misread your post so I deleted my response. Ooops sorry!

[ArizonaBay]

Ah yes ive seen this book 'The Tao of Pooh' before and heard that it was actually worth reading. It sounds stupid but if it explains it well i might have a read.

[Loveboat Captain]

I'm going to have a look at that Tao Of Pooh book. I loved Winnie the Pooh as a child, haha.

[UFOtofu]

Great posts here, everyone!

I found some additional definitions for 'fulcrum' that I thought you might find interesting. Not that they change any meanings/interpretatins, but rather add depth to the ideas already going on here. Enjoy!

1. The point or support on which a lever pivots.
2. <zoology> An anatomical structure that acts as a hinge or a point of support.
3. An agent through which vital powers are exercised.
4. <botany> An accessory organ such as a tendril, stipule, spine, and the like.
5. <entomology, zoology> The horny inferior surface of the lingua of certain insects. One of the small, spiniform scales found on the front edge of the dorsal and caudal fins of many ganoid fishes.
6. <anatomy> The connective tissue supporting the framework of the retina of the eye.

I find definitions 3, 4 and 6 contribute to more thought-provoking interpretations of the line using the word 'fulcrum'.

[wearethestories]

Wearethestories - I find it hard to read your words because you spoke as if you were a member of the band. I wouldnt appreciate someone trying to say that they knew what I "tended to think."
sorry for the confusion, but I meant "gnostics" when I said "they tend to think" in my second paragraph --- no "I'm-in-band" mentality here, man.

[soulongod]

you guys are my heroes really what is real again i read this time is for one to worry they will all believe as it begins to seem like the same...

[Terry21]

you guys are my heroes really what is real again i read this time is for one to worry they will all believe as it begins to seem like the same...

What?

[wearethestories]

What?
yeah... What?

[Warartist]

best one I've seen yet. I'll go with it.
M.

[Warartist]

Ah yes ive seen this book 'The Tao of Pooh' before and heard that it was actually worth reading. It sounds stupid but if it explains it well i might have a read.

I hear it's a pretty good book.

[bellamadia]

I hear it's a pretty good book.

Yes, I cherish this book! Everyone that inquired should definitely read it. You can read it in a evening or two.

[soulongod]

questions from the others need to know what is your thoughts finish for the wants that keep us close is the influence of sharing emotions of the past mind grows and grows the messages from sense it makes when i continually die you must use balance the times that are three maybe of acceptance just might be...

[bellamadia]

questions from the others need to know what is your thoughts finish for the wants that keep us close is the influence of sharing emotions of the past mind grows and grows the messages from sense it makes when i continually die you must use balance the times that are three maybe of acceptance just might be...

HUH? I take it English isn't your first language. Apparently it's not your second or third either.

[wearethestories]

HUH? I take it English isn't your first language. Apparently it's not your second or third either.
right-o.



just use babelfish.altavista.com or something of that nature before posting... I think we'd all appreciate it, especially because we actually want to understand what you're trying to say.

[roscoe.etc]

i hear this as a tribute to extraordinary abilities. a ballad about the repercussion of decisions that were rushed.

[soulongod]

complex flux they try to guide you only find the minds eye but the other senses as the other real remembering then comprehension moves into next past what is old and tired i just might be again for my other in between creations a new from my growing memory simplify into more we will want then need alone the fear arrives to a rhythm flowing round and round these structures could be balanced for awhile longer it will be its will be…

[ArizonaBay]

you guys are my heroes really what is real again i read this time is for one to worry they will all believe as it begins to seem like the same...

Flattery will get you everywhere, even when its completely incomprehensible

Edit : I think soulongod wants us to believe hes on drugs... *laughs behind hand*

[bellamadia]

Flattery will get you everywhere, even when its completely incomprehensible

Edit : I think soulongod wants us to believe hes on drugs... *laughs behind hand*


Considering this FUCKTARD (Soulongod) wrote me a private message saying I should crawl in a hole and die, for no fuckin reason, I think he might be on some sort of perscription anti-psychotic drug. I'm pretty sure that in all his senseless babbling that he is mocking us. But who the fuck can tell since he writes like a 3 year old.

Soulongod, this isn't the place to seek mental help, really.

[soulongod]

You should crawl in a hole and die.

That's nice, feel better?

The original title of the private message was “Dying”.

Express the honest thoughts the message provoked. Fear of ridicule, a parasitic tendency as to leech information from others, or the lack of the ability to cogitate might be some of the reasons for asking questions, even more reasons why you should crawl in a hole and die. In addition, your cowardly humor (my opinion of your less honest express “That's nice, feel better?”) might be another way for you to shell yourself from others. For it seems life takes courage to sustain. Therefore, to assist with, saving you further suffering; I merely suggested that you take a more efficient approach to what seems to be your goal, death.

Sincerely,
soulongod

PS: Incomprehensible as ART my responses might be, for it seems that some of your artistic sides of your minds maybe are underdeveloped because of the environment you’ve lived or are living in. In addition, I do regularly participate in psychedelic experiences.

[Terry21]

Banning, should I tell you the definition of banning, soulongod?

. No excessive flaming. You're going to disagree with people, and you'll have shoving matches, and that's all just part of being online. But don't start calling someone derisive names. Attack the idea, not the person. Friendly name-calling is OK, just don't be obnoxious with the users or the Mods.

Cheers.

[swampyfool]

Banning, should I tell you the definition of banning, soulongod?

. No excessive flaming. You're going to disagree with people, and you'll have shoving matches, and that's all just part of being online. But don't start calling someone derisive names. Attack the idea, not the person. Friendly name-calling is OK, just don't be obnoxious with the users or the Mods.

Cheers.
And just who are you to wave your finger?

[bellamadia]

Banning, should I tell you the definition of banning, soulongod?

. No excessive flaming. You're going to disagree with people, and you'll have shoving matches, and that's all just part of being online. But don't start calling someone derisive names. Attack the idea, not the person. Friendly name-calling is OK, just don't be obnoxious with the users or the Mods.

Cheers.

Thank you for standing up for me.

[bellamadia]

And just who are you to wave your finger?

I think he was just saying that it isn't nice to tell people they should die.

[bellamadia]

The original title of the private message was “Dying”.

Express the honest thoughts it provoke. Fear of ridicule, a parasitic tendency as to leech information from others, or the lack of the ability to cogitate might be some of the reasons for asking questions, even more reasons why you should crawl in a hole and die. In addition, your cowardly humor (in my opinion of your less honest express “That's nice, feel better?”) might be another way for you to shell yourself from others. For it seems life takes courage to sustain. Therefore, to assist with, saving you further suffering; I merely suggested that you take a more efficient approach to what seems to be your goal, dying.

Sincerely,
soulongod

PS: Incomprehensible as ART my responses might be, for it seems that some of your artistic sides of your minds maybe are underdeveloped because of the environment you’ve lived or are living. In addition, I do regularly participate in psychedelic experiences.

WOW, you have me all figured out don't you? Yes, I hide in a shell and am a coward, that is why I post so openly honestly on this site, not holding back... oh and post my real picture, my private email and my personal website...because I hide from the world. You are so insightful, really.

Yes, and my comment "That's nice, feel better?" wasn't humor... it was sarcasm. Like my comment about English not being your first language. I was busting your chops, my bad that you can't take it. I am NOT the only one on this post to joke about it.... so why target me?

Have you even read ANY of my posts? I don't know WHAT you could have interpreted that makes you think my goal is dying???? Where the hell did that come from? And you think I am a leech because I asked people for an explination of a religion I am a little inclear about? That makes me weak and unable to cogitate? WHAT? Yes, people should not ask others questions and not want to learn more, then society would be MUCH BETTER, really. Have you ever taken a philiosophy class of any sort? Many theories and epiphanies come from questions.

Oh and you talk about me being a coward? What do you call PMing me and telling me to die? Say it in the open, what are you hiding from?

Don't call your senseless rambling ART, you devalue art. I call it something else, but I won't sink to your level.

You may not agree with me, you may not like me. I would have welcomed an intelligent debate with you..... you can tell me I'm wrong, but to tell me that I should die? I feel bad for the person you are. You must be very unhappy.

[encrusted]

Fear of ridicule, a parasitic tendency as to leech information from others, or the lack of the ability to cogitate might be some of the reasons for asking questions

Growth through pursuit of knowledge, love of discovery, contributing to enlightened discussion, and seeking clarification in order to better understand and respect the divergent views of others are also several reasons you may want to look into...

[bellamadia]

Growth through pursuit of knowledge, love of discovery, contributing to enlightened discussion, and seeking clarification in order to better understand and respect the divergent views of others are also several reasons you may want to look into...

PERFECT!

[soulongod]

you guys are my heroes really what is real again i read this time is for one to worry they will all believe as it begins to seem like the same...

[soulongod]

Tick-Tock, Tick-Talk, Tit-Mock, Tick-Tock


PS: Tick and Tit have several definitions, all apply. Imagine that, all apply. Now go and die, to all that apply.

[jim39n]

oooh...

that was artistic

[Terry21]

And just who are you to wave your finger?

Yes, because I actually always tell people to die.

[Warartist]

How come "I must change for my son" is sticky and not this? Thats just silly.
M.

[bellamadia]

oooh...

that was artistic

LOL.

Yes and if he believes he is an artist I should point out that most artists aren't appreciated until after they die, so if I were a real jerkoff I'd throw his suggestion to me, right back at him. But... I won't.

[soulongod]

wasting your precious lives you might be someone special you might become…

[DON IOTAE]

wow, i've read the whole tiff there between bella and soulongod. Amusing. Too bad we still haven't figured out what sog is trying to say in his ARTistic expressions...

And then again, some people should just die... a la jerkoff style!

[wearethestories]

"wasting your precious lives you might be someone special you might become…
Last edited by soulongod : Yesterday at 08:50 PM. "


interesting that his art needs so much editing...

the only thing his "art" involves is some underhanded word switching.

"[by] wasting your precious lives (I take this to mean that you think posting and REFUTING you as an artist is a waste of precious lives? ... fine... at least we're precious, did you hear that bella?), you [thougt you] might be someone special"

wow... ART... trippy

soulongod, it doesn't take much to make phrases sound mystical when you quit using punctuation and happen to transplant the middle of your sentence to the end. you know, maybe just mess around with the different syllables and characters in your sentence, too.



let's all try now:

REAL: soulongod can't form correct sentences because he's a jerk-off wanna-be.

but we can't use PROSE, everything has to be coded in ART.

so...

"ART": I wanna be jerked-off but I can't because sentences form on my rectum, the soul of my dog-core.

core-rect?


any ARTistic volunteers out there?

[wearethestories]

sorry... my ART has punctuation... just can't get that down...



any pointers for a struggling ARTist, soulongod?

[bellamadia]

sorry... my ART has punctuation... just can't get that down...



any pointers for a struggling ARTist, soulongod?

LMFAO to both of your posts!! You are a genius!

[DON IOTAE]

*lol*

[soulongod]

“Incomprehensible as ART my responses might be, for it seems that some of your artistic sides of your minds may-be underdeveloped…”

Focusing on the words “as”, “might”, “seems”, and “may-be” (especially “as”), I suggest carefully rereading the above and previous statement. Your misinterpretation is yet another reason why you, once again, should crawl in a hole and die.

For those without a dictionary:
As – adv.> 1. To the same extent or degree; equally. conj.> 1. To the same degree or quantity.

If need be, I’ll post other definitions in time to cum.

Helpfully,
soulongod


PS:

“The chase and the hunt
craze people’s minds,
[Posts] hard to [comprehend]
make people's actions harmful.
Therefore, sages work for the center
and not the eyes,
leaving the latter and taking the former.” (Citation needed)

[soulongod]

You should crawl in a hole and die.

Trust me, I've considered it - decided to play out the hand though, see where it takes me - you?

Private messages between encrusted and soulongod.

So, it seems you need my guidance after all. Well, tell me a little about your consideration of crawling in a hole and dying. Be gentle though, as caressing a swollen vagina, patience. For you see dickhead, my clothes remain on. I have evolved enough to enjoy the subtleties in life. Therefore, I enjoy clothed foreplay, intensification, and invoking passion. All the better for the orgasms; so, feel free to join in anytime.


Love,
soulongod


PS: I would enjoy an elaboration of the consideration: “Trust me, I've considered it…”

[soulongod]

Hint: “swollen vagina” = bellamadia

[soulongod]

clear

alas the time I know it’s more than your fault fairness choose another place to stay far from you feed as they die one by one be forgotten everything again and again somewhere to be with all your chances pass by the same it seems forever now I know that’s all...

[DON IOTAE]

*lol*

[bellamadia]

Hint: “swollen vagina” = bellamadia

Why are you so obsessed with me Soul? Been a while hasn't it?

[bellamadia]

If need be, I’ll post other definitions in time to cum.

Oh look everyone, Soulongod is SO edgy, he used cum instead of come, WOW, your wit is so intriguing.



PS:

“The chase and the hunt
craze people’s minds,
[Posts] hard to [comprehend]
make people's actions harmful.
Therefore, sages work for the center
and not the eyes,
leaving the latter and taking the former.” (Citation needed)

Do me a favor, NEVER quote the Tao Te Ching. You do not embrace ANY of it's teachings with your insults and your "holier than thou" attitude.

[haloslippingdown]

wasting your precious lives you might be someone special you might become…


Maybe you shouldn't waste your precious life? Think of it...not posting. :)

[haloslippingdown]

Hint: “swollen vagina” = bellamadia

Soul, soul, soul. It's funny. You tell Bella to crawl in a hole and die, but it seems that every person on this board would wish that of you. I can't say much different. I mean, I wouldn't want you to die. Maybe you could live with Osama in a cave or hole and be his love partner. The two of you can create beautiful pose and destroy the infidels together. You, by your art, he by terrorism.

Can't you disagree with a person without being such an ass? Who gives you the right to call her a swollen vagina? Perhaps you are the one that wants to die so much, for why else would you mess with her? She's no easy person to fight, trust me. I've lived with her for almost two years...she's a hell of a debater.

So, why don't you post your tripe in the "art and poetry" section of the Tool site here. Maybe that's a better place where people can appreciate your writing. It doesn't seem like anyone on this board appreciates it though.

[bellamadia]

^^^^^^ Thanks babe!

Ya know, this was a beautiful thread until Soulongod PISSED all over it. Poor ArizonaBay hasn't been back since, sorry to disappoint you. Can we get back on topic, please!?!?

[swampyfool]

Soulongod=(gulp)Submachine . . ?

[DON IOTAE]

*lol*

Godammit. I never got to read enough submachine to have criteria on that one... still, I am a fan.

[EulogyCallinMe]

someone has a high and self righteous opinion of themself dont they soulongod? ok is it just me or does soulongod's "art" and wisdom sound like a combination of the Sphinx from Mystery Men and Yoda? hey, just because you talk in weird prose and steal your personality from characters in movies doesnt make you more correct in your opinions nor should they be stated as fact or as helpful hints on enlightening others. and tearing down others and name calling may make you feel better, bigger and smarter but it doesn't change anything about who you really are. im always down for a postive conversation even if there are opposing views, an argument can be held in a respectful way but not the way you are doing it. personal attacks never solve anything they just create drama, so yes, please get back to the topic at hand, i found what everyone was saying before the shit tossing fiasco, very interesting and engaging.

[bellamadia]

someone has a high and self righteous opinion of themself dont they soulongod? ok is it just me or does soulongod's "art" and wisdom sound like a combination of the Sphinx from Mystery Men and Yoda? hey, just because you talk in weird prose and steal your personality from characters in movies doesnt make you more correct in your opinions nor should they be stated as fact or as helpful hints on enlightening others. and tearing down others and name calling may make you feel better, bigger and smarter but it doesn't change anything about who you really are. im always down for a postive conversation even if there are opposing views, an argument can be held in a respectful way but not the way you are doing it. personal attacks never solve anything they just create drama, so yes, please get back to the topic at hand, i found what everyone was saying before the shit tossing fiasco, very interesting and engaging.

Exactly! :)

[EulogyCallinMe]

ok you know what? im not done, i have more shit to toss. please everyone, excuse my hypocrisy but i am upset with the degree of rudeness and lack of respect soulongod has shown the good members of this board, and specifically bella. i like how you (soulongod) consider your "art" and responses incomprehensible as if no one on these boards or the earth for that matter, is smart enough to clearly get what your saying in your bassackwards manner of communicating. its certainly not the message thats hard to decipher, for there isnt any (at least none of any of value). and i think encrusted's response to your pm was classic, i laughed my ass off. but you didnt respond to his "-you?" as in, have you considered "You should crawl in a hole and die."? id very much like to hear your response on that and any wisdom or "guidance" you have to impart on us feeble minded. while we are on the subject where did you learn to bestow such knowledge on us? what are your qualifications exactly? im looking for diplomas and certificates here. did you receive any at the existential community college of acid and pcp? i hear they have a great basbeall team there... every player licks the base as they arrive in hopes that someone dropped something. anyway, oh i forgot to mention, i noticed that your particular rhyming pattern is very reminiscent to that of Dr. Seuss. so ill add that to the list of people you took your personality from. once again sorry everyone for this particular act of negativity, usually i do a better job of controlling myself but i couldn't sit idly by on this one i needed to say this (even though i said something previously).

[soulongod]

“Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.”
- Mahatma Gandhi

“Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted.”
- John Lennon

“War is like love; it always finds a way.”
- Bertold Brecht

“A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both.”
- Francoise Rene Auguste Chateaubriand


Nostalgically,
soulongod

Oh, the past, however are we going to get you back? (Self-reflecting question)

[soulongod]

I now suggest you take a few minutes of your time and listen to stinkfist.

(For those who do not have the song, read below)

Stinkfist

Something has to change.
Un-deniable dilemma.
Boredom's not a burden
Anyone should bear.

Constant over stimu-lation numbs me
and I wouldn't have
It any other way.

It's not enough.
I need more.
Nothing seems to satisfy.
I don't want it.
I just need it.
To feel, to breathe, to know I'm alive.

Finger deep within the borderline.
Show me that you love me and that we belong together.
Relax, turn around and take my hand.

I can help you change
Tired moments into pleasure.
Say the word and we'll be
Well upon our way.

Blend and balance
Pain and comfort
Deep within you
Till you will not have me any other way.

It's not enough.
I need more.
Nothing seems to satisfy.
I don't want it.
I just need it.
To feel, to breathe, to know I'm alive.

Knuckle deep inside the borderline.
This may hurt a little but it's something you'll get used to.
Relax. Slip away.

Something kinda sad about
the way that things have come to be.
Desensitized to everything.
What became of subtlety?

How can it mean anything to me
If I really don't feel anything at all?

I'll keep digging till
I feel something.

Elbow deep inside the borderline.
Show me that you love me and that we belong together.
Shoulder deep within the borderline.
Relax. Turn around and take my hand.

Nostalgically,
soulongod

[encrusted]

Private messages between encrusted and soulongod.

So, it seems you need my guidance after all. Well, tell me a little about your consideration of crawling in a hole and dying. Be gentle though, as caressing a swollen vagina, patience. For you see dickhead, my clothes remain on. I have evolved enough to enjoy the subtleties in life. Therefore, I enjoy clothed foreplay, intensification, and invoking passion. All the better for the orgasms; so, feel free to join in anytime.


Love,
soulongod


PS: I would enjoy an elaboration of the consideration: “Trust me, I've considered it…”


edit of my snarky remarks due to Soulongod exhibiting redeemable qualities in a pm.

[ArizonaBay]

^^^^^^ Thanks babe!

Ya know, this was a beautiful thread until Soulongod PISSED all over it. Poor ArizonaBay hasn't been back since, sorry to disappoint you. Can we get back on topic, please!?!?

Well actually i just havent been near a computer.

Clearly Soulongod doesnt see that all his points are laced with quite pathetic irony simply because hes posting it all on an internet message board.

Never mind lets just ignore him, shall we?

Yeah sacred geometry, i know it has something to do with Pythagorus and possibly the Torah but im not sure of the specifics anyone know more?

[Towelie]

Thank you ArizonaBay and Bella for the great interpretations. I found them very thought provoking. (Bella xxoo)

Btw, I don't label myself often. But, I found that my thoughts and decisions closely relate to gnosticism.

[Terry21]

Soulongod, your pseudo-intellectual shit does not give you the right to wish someone to die.

"And not to pull your halo down, around your neck and tug you off your cloud".

[soulongod]

Hello hello ello llo lo o is is s anybody body body ody out out ut there there ere ere ere ere ere ere.

[EulogyCallinMe]

Well actually i just havent been near a computer.

Clearly Soulongod doesnt see that all his points are laced with quite pathetic irony simply because hes posting it all on an internet message board.

Never mind lets just ignore him, shall we?

Yeah sacred geometry, i know it has something to do with Pythagorus and possibly the Torah but im not sure of the specifics anyone know more?

ok as far as the torah goes... the Hebrew alphabet is indeed set up like a huge math problem rather than just random letters that make up words. people who have seen the movie "Pi" know what I’m talking about, and it is true. It’s not just some fictional story line made up for a movie, I discussed this subject with my Hebrew school teacher I had a while back and at that time (which is kind of long ago now) he showed me some other little neat word equations that tripped me out. Unfortunately it has been years since I have studied Hebrew and I don’t have anything really further to show you other than the documented examples in “Pi”. now how that really relates Jambi im not too sure. also sacred geometry is something I know pretty much nothing about save for the relation between the golden ratio and the Fibonacci sequence, which makes me sad because I cant further discuss any of those issues. But even then, I don’t think that lyrically, Jambi has anything to do with a specific math anything, be it Pi, Pythagoras or anything. I think the more philosophical leaning with Taoism and even Gnosticism was making more progress in attempting to figure out what exactly Maynard is talking about here (which is so vague its retarded, I remember once I pretty much learned the lyrics and could sing along through most of it, that I had no idea what the song was about). I also read in another thread somewhere that something this can be pointed towards the Illuminati. I feel that pretty much this entire album is more focused on spirituality and reflection, rather than having so much to do with math and it might not even have to do so much with religion either as much as just how they plain ol’ feel. kind of everything is written in past tense, like these events have already happened and now hes just singing about what he thinks of it all.

[kether4602]

I found this to be very informative. I'm not going to try to make any connections to the song at this moment, but there is a wealth of information at this address to get anyone started with sacred geometry.

http://www.floweroflife.org/spiral01.htm

[Q'ayin]

Arizona Bay, thanks for the thread, I initially forgot to weigh your opening post as I got caught up in thinking about Gnosticism, but here's a thought.

I still found myself quibbling about who the "you" would be in the song, and the answer I came up with - which dovetails with your interpretation, as I read it - is that the "you" is each other at large, and at various verses the narrator/Maynard may have certain characters in mind without that changing the intent of the song; an addition for anyone who over-looked or got snagged on the same point that I did.

[Towelie]

I found this to be very informative. I'm not going to try to make any connections to the song at this moment, but there is a wealth of information at this address to get anyone started with sacred geometry.

http://www.floweroflife.org/spiral01.htm

Wow, thanks Kether. Bookmarked.

[kether4602]

anytime

[Caduceus11]

I think we've found 'submachine's' new alias...if not, these two should get together...and start their own empire...

[-Subwise-]

I think it's ALL valid within the confines of legitimate exploration. I still (after reading the lyrics) sway towards the idea that it is a prequel to Wing's for Marie, and the lyrics are of a dialague in thought (Written as a hind sight or reflection) between 2 people example: Maynard and his Mother. But then I laugh out of joy because here we all are experiencing real communication that you may feel you can't always have in your dailly routines.

[Caduceus11]

another "sub"....and a lurker....seems fishy to me...but at least it seems to be a quality post...

[-Subwise-]

Ponder this. Till 2 become 1. The Third eye? hmmm.

[Terry21]

Until the two become one = the end of Schism video. Two persons become a couple. Schism is the tearing apeart of the two, Jambi the combination.

[Skeezer]

I agree with Arizona's interpretation of the song as being more generalized. Although I think people try to hard to interpret too much of MJk's lyrics and look for too much meaning. In my opinion his poetry here is based on personal emotions and individuals in his life, most likely his son. Why not he writes about his mother right? However, he seems to maintain ,as ArizonaBay points out, a specifically vague tone to the purpose of the lyrics. It's typical of his style and what I believe makes it so beautiful, if the music became too personal then I would have a hard time identifying with it thus feeling less passionate about it. I laugh sometimes when I read the intricate explanations some have for the lyrics because it's clear to me that Maynard's writing accomplishes just what it should, becoming personal and identifiable to each of us which is only possible without specific meaning. in the opinion boards I see this tendancy to over intellectualize the lyrics I think because Maynard is so brilliant in his interviews that we assume he employs the same layered thinking in the songs. When you really listen to the music though you see that his art is more intuitive and emotional than always cold and logical. I liken it to the old saying modified here "His Art takes the complex and simplifies it, His intellectualism takes the simple and complexifies it." On a personal note I find the music, rythm, drums, and guitar in this song so much more powerful than I ever have with other Tool albums. The guitar solo comes off as so emotional to me that Maynard more than ever has become an accompianing aspect of the song rather than the focal point. Does anyone else feel like this album has really seen Maynards lyrics blend into the music as a natural fourth instrument or am I just learning to appreciate music more?



P.S. For the Record, personally I'm a fan of the "Swollen Vagina" : )

[mulud]

I like the OP's interpretation well because it is correct....
JK
I relate to it..
I think Jambi is about anyone who has taken a "dark" ride, a journey away from their center against the grain of their own personal evolution and having a moment of clarity an epipheny an awakining. The world is full of diversions from truth and purity and thus the narrator requests his eyes be jammed-- take away the temptations the energies that beckon away from a "stable" center. the sun or son is a bit of a mystery. One which I like is that we are all born pure shining light innocent if you will-- we lose a lot of that light and benevolence along the way to the "devil" , suffering, poor choices etc.. The narrator beckons himself to shine again to become one with God, to revisit the divinity within where we all come together in union.

[Warartist]

I agree with Arizona's interpretation of the song as being more generalized. Although I think people try to hard to interpret too much of MJk's lyrics and look for too much meaning. In my opinion his poetry here is based on personal emotions and individuals in his life, most likely his son. Why not he writes about his mother right? However, he seems to maintain ,as ArizonaBay points out, a specifically vague tone to the purpose of the lyrics. It's typical of his style and what I believe makes it so beautiful, if the music became too personal then I would have a hard time identifying with it thus feeling less passionate about it. I laugh sometimes when I read the intricate explanations some have for the lyrics because it's clear to me that Maynard's writing accomplishes just what it should, becoming personal and identifiable to each of us which is only possible without specific meaning. in the opinion boards I see this tendancy to over intellectualize the lyrics I think because Maynard is so brilliant in his interviews that we assume he employs the same layered thinking in the songs. When you really listen to the music though you see that his art is more intuitive and emotional than always cold and logical. I liken it to the old saying modified here "His Art takes the complex and simplifies it, His intellectualism takes the simple and complexifies it." On a personal note I find the music, rythm, drums, and guitar in this song so much more powerful than I ever have with other Tool albums. The guitar solo comes off as so emotional to me that Maynard more than ever has become an accompianing aspect of the song rather than the focal point. Does anyone else feel like this album has really seen Maynards lyrics blend into the music as a natural fourth instrument or am I just learning to appreciate music more?



P.S. For the Record, personally I'm a fan of the "Swollen Vagina" : )

How could you say you think people over analyze and, in the same paragraph you think it's most likely about his son? Thats ridiculous.
Are you saying it's to logical and cold if it isn't about his kid? Seriously how can anyone support the theory that it's about his son? It simply makes no since. There is no evidence to support it. I would say it's not only overly analytical, it's over identifying. It is throwing your own issues and emotions into the equation and and calling it the true meaning. Or, I could just say it's dumn....

As for your last question, no. I think he blends in quite well the majority of the time.

[-Subwise-]

I agree with Arizona's interpretation of the song as being more generalized. Although I think people try to hard to interpret too much of MJk's lyrics and look for too much meaning. In my opinion his poetry here is based on personal emotions and individuals in his life, most likely his son. Why not he writes about his mother right? However, he seems to maintain ,as ArizonaBay points out, a specifically vague tone to the purpose of the lyrics. It's typical of his style and what I believe makes it so beautiful, if the music became too personal then I would have a hard time identifying with it thus feeling less passionate about it. I laugh sometimes when I read the intricate explanations some have for the lyrics because it's clear to me that Maynard's writing accomplishes just what it should, becoming personal and identifiable to each of us which is only possible without specific meaning. in the opinion boards I see this tendancy to over intellectualize the lyrics I think because Maynard is so brilliant in his interviews that we assume he employs the same layered thinking in the songs. When you really listen to the music though you see that his art is more intuitive and emotional than always cold and logical. I liken it to the old saying modified here "His Art takes the complex and simplifies it, His intellectualism takes the simple and complexifies it." On a personal note I find the music, rythm, drums, and guitar in this song so much more powerful than I ever have with other Tool albums. The guitar solo comes off as so emotional to me that Maynard more than ever has become an accompianing aspect of the song rather than the focal point. Does anyone else feel like this album has really seen Maynards lyrics blend into the music as a natural fourth instrument or am I just learning to appreciate music more?



P.S. For the Record, personally I'm a fan of the "Swollen Vagina" : )


Definitely become a natural fourth.

[martyrinexile86]

Ok everyone is going on about how this song is about his son or his mother or whatever. The fact is there is nothing in this song that remotely suggests what Maynard is desperate not to lose. I believe this ambiguity is intentional.

So here is my interpretation of this song which has turned out to be more in keeping with the themes of earlier Tool songs such as Lateralus or 4 degrees - the idea of letting go.

This song is about holding something at the centre of your life and grasping it at the expense of everything else (you would wish everything away to hold on to it). Maynard sings "dim my eyes if they should compromise a fulcrum." (fulcrum being the point from which a pendulum swings it remains static as the world turns - the Hermetic meaning of this is as a metaphor for belief i.e. the static centre to which all else revolves in your life whether this be religion, political ideology, material ambition, or whatever). In other words i will not see the truth if it will destroy my centre. Maynard seems to think this grasping is negative. This is because we all hang or pendulums in different places; we all have different sets of wants and beliefs which divide us. Our narrator in this song (maybe not literally Maynard just like in Stinkfist or Vicarious) kneels away his centre i.e. gives it up and sees the truth of unity the light of universal balance as "benevolent sun" and sees that if we divide we "wither away".
Great interpretation, this is actually pretty close to my own thoughts on the song. Think you pretty much nailed it.

[A Spirit of Radio]

i definately think the song was begun with an idea of his relationship with his son. it progressed into much more of course, i think the use of the word benevolent with son is quite telling too as benevolent is a word often associated with tumors that do no harm. i considered maynard was speaking about himself some because of that and the relationship he had as a son with his mother.

"the two become one" can of course mean the creation of a new human being through a sexual act but can also referense the fusion that occurs within the sun to create the light and heat which gave rise to man on earth in the first place.

[spacemonkeyadb]

...i think the use of the word benevolent with son is quite telling too as benevolent is a word often associated with tumors that do no harm...

You'd be mistaken on that one. The tumor word is "benign".
"Benevolent" means to be concerned about promoting the welfare of others.

I think that at the very least this song was inspired by Maynard's relationship with his son. But I would agree that the song is intentionally ambiguous and generalised so that we can all identify with it and find our own personal interpretation of his lyrics.

[A Spirit of Radio]

yes, i'm sorry i did mean benign -with benevolent.being a variation of the word.
sorry.