come on!

[negative_creep]

most of you people sound like philosophy majors! you look into songs so much just to find the meaning of them. did you ever THINK that songs have no meaning to them whatsoever? maybe maynard was just writing down whatever came up in his head. all musicians do it. it's called SONGWRITING!!!! not every song has to be about something. just sit back and listen to the song and enjoy it. and while you're doing it, drink a beer. it's much better.

[Terry21]

Go visit the Shakira forums, fuckhead.

[slamminsalmon]

tool songs are written with no meaning


yup

[Squishy]

Mmmmmh, Shakira.

[Cucumber_11]

If you think Tool have no deep meanings to their songs you need a head check. Have you listened to Lateralus? ...

Nobody who has listened to that can deny the deep metaphorical intensity of tools lyrics. And hey, if we didn't talk about the songs and bitch to each other about the meanings on the interweb we'd all be bored. Boredem leads to frustration. Frustration leads to violence. Violence leads to crime. Crime leads to jail. Jail leeds to anal.

Tool is saving us all that painfull experience, be thankfull.

[static]

I don't think he is sayin that ALL Tool songs don't have meaning, just some. I disagree, however.

[slamminsalmon]

Mmmmmh, Shakira.


http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=40990

[nighthawk]

What are you doing in this forum?? if you don't like it get out.
and i do believe some songs have a meaning and not just the lyrics, it's all the composition.

[Lysander]

What the hell is wrong with you people? Stop flaming the guy for daring to advance the possibility that maybe not every song they ever produce has multiplicities of alternate meanings. Oh sure, Lateralus is hugely incredifyingly deep, but everyone seems to have forgotten Dier Von Satan.

[herbnut]

most of you people sound like philosophy majors! you look into songs so much just to find the meaning of them. did you ever THINK that songs have no meaning to them whatsoever? maybe maynard was just writing down whatever came up in his head. all musicians do it. it's called SONGWRITING!!!! not every song has to be about something. just sit back and listen to the song and enjoy it. and while you're doing it, drink a beer. it's much better.


Before you use "philosophy major" in such a condescending manner stop and think about how much the validity of what you are saying depends on your conception of "meaning." What's meaning? I'd say that's a philosophical question if I ever saw one.

Not trying to be a dick or anything or sound pretencious, I apologize if I do sound like that, but seriously I am just tired of people throwing "philosophy major" in a condescending way.

More to the point. Tool has always emphasized that song-writing is an emotional process for them where they bring together their feelings and experiences and try to capture them through music. I really think that those feelings and experiences are meaningful to the band and that's what they are trying to express with their art.

[Luosdasa]

most of you people sound like philosophy majors! you look into songs so much just to find the meaning of them. did you ever THINK that songs have no meaning to them whatsoever? maybe maynard was just writing down whatever came up in his head. all musicians do it. it's called SONGWRITING!!!! not every song has to be about something. just sit back and listen to the song and enjoy it. and while you're doing it, drink a beer. it's much better.

*nods* Many a good, meaningless song has been written.

I think it's pretty obvious that tools songs (well, just about everyone of them, ill allow that their are always exceptions) have themes and messages in them though. Whether you look for the meanings or not is a thing of personal preferance. If you prefer to listen just to the music, i mean just the sound (heh, "just"), then by all means to exactly that. Personally, i get greater enjoyment if i can understand to a certain extent the theme(s) or a song.

I'd think that some people analyse the crap out of the songs... a little too much. But if thats the way they get maximum enjoyment from music, then by all means thats what they should do.

It all comes down to personal preferance, something i think we need to respect a little greater then seen on many threads in this forum...

[Terry21]

What the hell is wrong with you people? Stop flaming the guy for daring to advance the possibility that maybe not every song they ever produce has multiplicities of alternate meanings. Oh sure, Lateralus is hugely incredifyingly deep, but everyone seems to have forgotten Dier Von Satan.

I wasn't flaming him, I was serious. If he wants to listen to songs with no meaning he can visit www.shakira.com That's songwriting!

[bellamadia]

most of you people sound like philosophy majors! you look into songs so much just to find the meaning of them. did you ever THINK that songs have no meaning to them whatsoever? maybe maynard was just writing down whatever came up in his head. all musicians do it. it's called SONGWRITING!!!! not every song has to be about something. just sit back and listen to the song and enjoy it. and while you're doing it, drink a beer. it's much better.

I will say that you are correct in one thing. Often (it has been said) artists will just write down lyrics that come to their head. It’s kind of a cathartic purging of thoughts, emotions, observations, etc. Sometimes the process is not as contrived as we may think. ie. An artist doesn’t always sit down and decide, today I am going to write a song about hypocrites or whatever. Sometimes, the artist may just write and the rest comes out as they go.

That said, it is theoretically impossible for a song to be about nothing at all. Words and imagery together in sentences, versus, whatever, HAVE to form something that means something. Sometimes that something is as simple as telling a story of their friend’s LSD trip (Rosetta Stoned, meaning as told by Alex Grey) or it’s really deep and emotional like Wings.

At the end of the day, many of us come onto this site to ponder meanings not because we are obsessive losers with nothing better to do, but because it is enjoyable and stimulating to discuss something that you have so much passion for. How many opportunities do we have in life to do this without seeming like a pretentious asshole? Very few, especially after college.

[herbnut]

Sometimes that something is as simple as telling a story of their friend’s LSD trip (Rosetta Stoned, meaning as told by Alex Grey) or it’s really deep and emotional like Wings.



Is RS really told by Alex Grey? I skimmed through Blair's post and he hinted that MJK may not have written the lyrics, but I missed any mention of Alex Grey.

[bellamadia]

Is RS really told by Alex Grey? I skimmed through Blair's post and he hinted that MJK may not have written the lyrics, but I missed any mention of Alex Grey.


Sorry, I probably didn't say that clearly. I went to CosM for the 10,000 Days listening party and Alex Grey told us that Adam and Maynard told him the song was about a friend of theirs that was tripping. He said that the lyrics are some of the shit the guy was saying while he was tripping with a little creative editing. When he awoke the next day he didn't remember what he said or "saw" but ended up shitting his sleeping bag.

[Lysander]

"I wasn't flaming him, I was serious. If he wants to listen to songs with no meaning he can isit
www.shakira.com
That's songwriting!"

So explain the "fuckhead," why don't you.

[seemyshadowchanging]

I wasn't flaming him, I was serious. If he wants to listen to songs with no meaning he can visit www.shakira.com That's songwriting!
Yea that song about her hips is just so deep.probably took her all of three min to do that one.what a joke for this guy to say these songs have no meaning,that we are looking to far into this stuff.this is probably the same guy that you see at the concerts yelling after every song to play sober if they hadnt played it already.i cant stand these people,no meaning fuck off is what i say!!!!!!!

[Warartist]

most of you people sound like philosophy majors! you look into songs so much just to find the meaning of them. did you ever THINK that songs have no meaning to them whatsoever? maybe maynard was just writing down whatever came up in his head. all musicians do it. it's called SONGWRITING!!!! not every song has to be about something. just sit back and listen to the song and enjoy it. and while you're doing it, drink a beer. it's much better.

Well, I think your almost right. People shouldn't dig too deep looking for the meaning intended, instead they should find what it means to them. My reality of Tool's music could be right on in some aspects and completely off in others. It doesn't matter though, I don't need to know what they meant. What if their meaning wasn't suppose to be as deep a meaning as I hear? That would suck right?
Chances are we never know what they wrote it about. Arguing to much about what it is, is kinda pointless though. My version will always be deeper for me then any one else's and vise versa. Thats just how it is unless you've lived in the same head with someone else.
So if by just enjoy you mean don't worry about every body else and appreciate it the way you know how (through your own ear's) then that makes since.
M.

[Bukkhead]

Since this dude posted the exact same thing in a different thread, I'll put my reply here too. My apologies to those who end up reading it twice. Edited for contextuallity.

"If I may be so bold, to the naysayers who say that there is "too much" interpretation or unecessary interpretation: try to be a little less prescriptivist. We are not "explaining" the song; we are trying to "explicate" the song. Discussing the meaning of the words is an artistic act, inspired by the song itself. To say it is "wrong" to do so is to say it is "wrong" to paint pictures. Would you say that Da Vinci should not have bothered painting the Mona Lisa since there is no point in trying to "artify" her face? No. These interpretations exist for their own sake. We are not historians and psychologists seeking to establish truth. We are art-lovers seeking to deepen our experiences."

This is a reiteration of what others in this thread have said, and they said it better. Suffice it to say that the OP is kicking over sandcastles. That's hypocritical. Oh, and I can do this with Shakira's lyrics as well. Heck, I won a prize once for explicating "Roses are red, violets are blue."

--JE

[y0avz]

Maybe this dude is tired of trying to find meaning for every song, and he decided to listen to them and just enjoy the music.
I respect that...BUT, its also fun to find something new about a song.

[Bukkhead]

Maybe this dude is tired of trying to find meaning for every song, and he decided to listen to them and just enjoy the music.
I respect that...BUT, its also fun to find something new about a song.

Fine. If he doesn't want to dance, he shouldn't go to the dance. And if he doesn't want to dance and he DOES go to the dance, he shouldn't make fun of the dancers. That's just my opinion.

--JE

[bellamadia]

And why is everyone acting like we're supposed to tolerate this kind of shit? No, I never did "THINK that the songs have no meaning to them whatsoever," because they obviously the fuck do. I don't see how a person could even just listen to lyrics and think this, let alone read the lyrics section of this website.

While I agree with your viewpoint, (OF COURSE songs have meaning) the point of this site is to discuss and debate, not attack people. I have been guilty of doing it myself here, but only when I see someone else disrespecting people views, no matter how assanain they may be. Tolerance is the key word. If this kid called us all fuckin pretentious assholes, then I might have to fight back. He was just stating an opinion, one that I think is lacking. At the same time it's easy to see we aren't dealing with someone that is really reflective or philisophical. If I were that type of person, I'd feel that way too... though I can't phathom being that simple.



What really bugs me is that nobody ever says this shit about poetry or other forms of literature, only song lyrics. Half of this has to do with the fact that most pop lyrics are crap, but the other half has to do with people who have no fucking idea how the creative process works; all they hear is some music and some singing, and they think that's all there is to it.


Poets and writers have certainly been criticized in this way. Many beat poets like Jack Kerouak have been accused of this, just as example, but the list is endless. It's just that the public interest in criticizing lyrics is much greater. Lyrics are attainable and appealing to the majority of the people, uneducated, close-minded, out of touch all the way to the uber intelligent, the creative and the philosophical types. The general public feels it’s safer and more acceptable to criticize lyrics because they mistakenly feel that they don't need to have this higher intellect that may intimidate them from criticizing poetry.

That said, I can understand your anger at this guys post. For someone to take something as powerful, personal and meaningul as Tool's lyrics and piss all over them as meaningless fluff is enough to get the adrenaline pumping.

I honestly feel bad for this guy. If all he gets from this music is a soundtrack to his beer drinking, he is missing out on a WORLD of emotions and enlightement. What a huge waste.

[herbnut]

Sorry, I probably didn't say that clearly. I went to CosM for the 10,000 Days listening party and Alex Grey told us that Adam and Maynard told him the song was about a friend of theirs that was tripping. He said that the lyrics are some of the shit the guy was saying while he was tripping with a little creative editing. When he awoke the next day he didn't remember what he said or "saw" but ended up shitting his sleeping bag.

Awesome. I love the bit "deadhead chemistry... got me seeing e-motherfuckin-t"

I wish I could go to CoSM and chat with Mr. Grey himself.

[Omar Rodriguez-Mopez]

If you think Tool have no deep meanings to their songs you need a head check. Have you listened to Lateralus? ...

Nobody who has listened to that can deny the deep metaphorical intensity of tools lyrics. And hey, if we didn't talk about the songs and bitch to each other about the meanings on the interweb we'd all be bored. Boredem leads to frustration. Frustration leads to violence. Violence leads to crime. Crime leads to jail. Jail leeds to anal.

Tool is saving us all that painfull experience, be thankfull.

Anal leads to?

[ErikTheRed]

Uhhh, Im kinda with that guy. As a hard-core fan of Tool since Opiate, I must admit--- I dont get too deep. Honestly (and this may very well put me at odds with many of you), I dont look into the lyrics for meaning and guidance. I listen to Tool because they fuckin' ROCK, not because they go subterranian into the grey matter. So does this make me less of a Tool fan? Ive never known a greater band, Ive never liked a band even half as much, and I've been a faithful listener/purchaser for the better part of damn near 15 years-- so shoot me if I dont look to Maynard as someone to follow to the Gates. Its music, and as such, there is no greater collection of musicians-- but they're not my Gods, and the deep enlaced meaning of the lyrics dont phase me on any spiritual level nor do they fascinate my intellect. I listen, I like it, its all good. Hell, Lateralus could be about the sale of vanilla ice cream in the hot summer, it wouldnt affect my admiration for them one bit. I dont NEED the meaning to enjoy the music.

[Terry21]

Uhhh, Im kinda with that guy. As a hard-core fan of Tool since Opiate, I must admit--- I dont get too deep. Honestly (and this may very well put me at odds with many of you), I dont look into the lyrics for meaning and guidance. I listen to Tool because they fuckin' ROCK, not because they go subterranian into the grey matter. So does this make me less of a Tool fan? Ive never known a greater band, Ive never liked a band even half as much, and I've been a faithful listener/purchaser for the better part of damn near 15 years-- so shoot me if I dont look to Maynard as someone to follow to the Gates. Its music, and as such, there is no greater collection of musicians-- but they're not my Gods, and the deep enlaced meaning of the lyrics dont phase me on any spiritual level nor do they fascinate my intellect. I listen, I like it, its all good. Hell, Lateralus could be about the sale of vanilla ice cream in the hot summer, it wouldnt affect my admiration for them one bit. I dont NEED the meaning to enjoy the music.

I agree with you that some people look too deep into songs. But I don't think it's wrong to think about the lyrical side too. Why not? It's just another aspect. There's no reason to just enjoy the music, why not go deeper? We all know that Maynard likes to go deeper and I can enjoy music a lot more when it goes deeper.

[bellamadia]

Uhhh, Im kinda with that guy. As a hard-core fan of Tool since Opiate, I must admit--- I dont get too deep. Honestly (and this may very well put me at odds with many of you), I dont look into the lyrics for meaning and guidance. I listen to Tool because they fuckin' ROCK, not because they go subterranian into the grey matter. So does this make me less of a Tool fan? Ive never known a greater band, Ive never liked a band even half as much, and I've been a faithful listener/purchaser for the better part of damn near 15 years-- so shoot me if I dont look to Maynard as someone to follow to the Gates. Its music, and as such, there is no greater collection of musicians-- but they're not my Gods, and the deep enlaced meaning of the lyrics dont phase me on any spiritual level nor do they fascinate my intellect. I listen, I like it, its all good. Hell, Lateralus could be about the sale of vanilla ice cream in the hot summer, it wouldnt affect my admiration for them one bit. I dont NEED the meaning to enjoy the music.

Nah, there is a difference between saying "I don't really care that much about the meaning of the lyrics or anything, I just love the sounds and the music, it rocks" and saying what the guy that started this post said. That it has no meaning. That's just an ignorant statement. Yours is just a preference, again, one I can't phathom, but a preference nonetheless.

And I don't think any of us NEED the lyrics to like TOOL but we appreciate them. To me, looking at a song only for the musical notes, instruments, etc. or looking at a song only for the lyrics is like looking at book and only reading the back and front cover. The rest is there for a reason. Ignoring it is doing yourself a huge disservice.

[carefreeonmorph]

most of you people sound like philosophy majors! you look into songs so much just to find the meaning of them. did you ever THINK that songs have no meaning to them whatsoever? maybe maynard was just writing down whatever came up in his head. all musicians do it. it's called SONGWRITING!!!! not every song has to be about something. just sit back and listen to the song and enjoy it. and while you're doing it, drink a beer. it's much better.
Man I feel bad for you in a way... It's like you started having a good thought... than the drunkeness erased it. You really should have expected to get pounded about such a statement as "Maynards lyrics have no meaning" That'd be like screaming white power at a Black Panther convention.

[Jett]

I like the creator of this thread. He's pissing off the anal thinkers. I love it.

[Jett]

talking about music is like dancing about eating.

[Luosdasa]

talking about music is like dancing about eating.

that... has to be one of the most pathetic similies i have ever read...

trying to form a thought in your head must be like trying to float a bowling ball across a lake...

as pathetic as yours? maybe not, but it was a an alright shot...

[wearethestories]

most of you people sound like philosophy majors! you look into songs so much just to find the meaning of them. did you ever THINK that songs have no meaning to them whatsoever? maybe maynard was just writing down whatever came up in his head. all musicians do it. it's called SONGWRITING!!!! not every song has to be about something. just sit back and listen to the song and enjoy it. and while you're doing it, drink a beer. it's much better.
pull your head on out ... and give a listen
i shouldn't have to say it all again

the universe is hostile, so impersonal
DEVOUR to survive, so it is, so it's always been





I EAT YOU!!!!




but seriously --- take a look at Lateralus/Disposition/Reflection if actually believe that Tool songs have no meaning (it's the analyzation techniques found in essay writing that helps "put things together")

try reading a book.

(specifically anything by anyone who has won the Man-Booker Prize for Literature, then remember that music is 2-Dimensional literature [words/sounds] and I'll hope you'll realize that the interpretations we strive for aren't farcical... unless we try to say that The Pot is ABOUT Hurricane Katrina/Tsunami/Marijuana)

[wearethestories]

And why is everyone acting like we're supposed to tolerate this kind of shit? No, I never did "THINK that the songs have no meaning to them whatsoever," because they obviously the fuck do. I don't see how a person could even just listen to lyrics and think this, let alone read the lyrics section of this website.
amen.

[Jett]

that... has to be one of the most pathetic similies i have ever read...

trying to form a thought in your head must be like trying to float a bowling ball across a lake...

as pathetic as yours? maybe not, but it was a an alright shot...So you're saying you're smarter than me?


Definitely not modest are you.

[Cucumber_11]

Anal leads to?

My house.