the musical incarnation of pure aggression

[sluice_van]

hi all:

this is my first post to these boards, although i have been reading them for awhile. it seems to me like there are a lot of well thought out opinions being presented here so i wanted to join in.

first of all, jerk off kicks ass, what more can i say really ....

to me this song exemplifies true anger at stupidity and ignorance that we encounter in the everyday world ... you've been there before i'm sure, people who talk shit behind your back or are just too stupid to know better than to fuck with you.

"consequences dictate
our course of action
it doesn't matter what's right
it's only wrong if you get caught
if consequences dictate
our course of action i should
i should play god and just
shoot you myself
"

i think the preceding quote really sums up maynard's thoughts on our everyday reactions to violations of our rights. personally, i feel that a lot of people in our world today talk a lot of shit, and rarely back it up. why is it illegal for me to wreck someone's face after they have directly insulted me? after all, they were the ones who decided to provoke my wrath...

in my mind, maynard is saying: "i'm sick of living in the same world as you, listening to all the bullshit that you say, and dealing with all the crimes you commit against me ... it doesn't seem fair that you get can get away with this. i think this shit has gone on long enough and now, finally i am responding to you, and you are not going to live through my response ... since you have gotten away with your crimes against me, it is clear that the consequences do not apply anymore. because of this, i will become your consequence."

and of course the music in this song is unbelievable ... heavy, straightforward, rhythmic and intense. the sounds really convey the slow burning of hatred and the final violent conclusion.

i guess that's all i had to say really. i just love this song and the themes inivolved in it ... the music, everything.

thanks for listening,
-sv

[987]

Good post.
Though i have a slightly other opinion of the song than you have (that is after reading an interview with Maynard). http://www.cdicarlo.com/paper_04maynard.htm
Quote
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question about ethics. In the song "Jerk-Off" you mention several tenets of ethical theory. In one case you state: "Consequences dictate our course of action and it doesn't matter what's right. It's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate my course of action I should play God and shoot you myself. I'm very tired of waiting"

I mentioned to Maynard that Consequentialism is one of the main schools of thought in ethical theory. It states that humans need to focus on the effects of actions in order to determine whether or not they are good/bad, right/wrong, etc. I asked him if he was aware of this to which he replied: "No, I'm not terribly literate. I like to look into things and read up on them when I can". Most members of Tool have had university educations, but they are pretty well dilettantes when it comes to academic professionalism. And they acknowledge this without pretense. They have interests in various fields of study e.g. Egyptology, numerology, the occult, etc., and the take from these that which they find interesting and relevant to their own lives. They use this information in order to gain a better understanding of the world and their place in it, but also, to have fun and laugh about the entire process. Some of the things that struck me about Maynard's (and Tool's) take on lie are the aspects of humility, reverence, and humour (particularly, satire).

When they talk about a spiritual adventure or endeavour, they are referring to how they can grow as human beings trying to expand their awareness of themselves within a particular world. So I mentioned the great English philosopher Jeremy Bentham (for whom my eldest son is named), who was a founding member of University College London (for those who could not afford Oxford or Cambridge) and who donated his body to medical science in the early part of the nineteenth century (to help discourage grave-robbery and to convince others to do the same). Afterwards, as a condition of his will, Bentham's skeleton and head were stuffed and his remains preserved in a glass case (which one can still visit today). Bentham was the father of a consequentialist ethical theory called Utilitarianism (act in order to produce the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest number of people). This underlies most current states of democracy and the ways in which politics and legislative assemblies function today.

I mentioned as well, a point which interested Maynard. Implicit in their lyrics from 'Jerk-Off' was a reference to the moral of a parable from Plato's Republic called the 'Ring of Gyges'. In the Republic, Socrates and friends are discussing the nature of justice. What is a just person? One of the speakers named Glaucon tells the story of Gyges. Basically, the story goes like this: After an earthquake in the countryside, Gyges, a shepherd of Lydia, discovers a chasm beneath the earth which houses the tomb of a corpse wearing nothing but a gold ring. Gyges takes the ring and, while wearing it at the local meeting of shepherds, turns the setting of the ring towards the inside of his hand. When he does so, he becomes invisible. When the setting is turned back, he becomes visible again. Glaucon asks us now to imagine two such rings: one is given to a just person, the other is given to an unjust person. Now although entirely fictional, Glaucon's point is a good one. And that is, since neither could be caught in acts such as stealing, voyeurism, rape, etc., because of their cloak of invisibility, neither would be just. It is only the veneer of what we have invented through culture which forces us to act in civilized ways. Once we can 'get away' with something without the fear of being caught, we will most certainly do it. And Maynard's lyrics "It doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught", echoes the very sentiment of this parable.

At this point, Maynard said: "Information, itself, is pure. Take a knife, for example. You can use it to cut up vegetables, meat, butter your bread, etc. Or you can use it as a weapon. The way in which information exists in its many forms leaves for us the decision as to how it is we wish to use it. Information itself has a certain purity. Humans have intentionality. It's humans who decide how it is they wish to behave. Information and technology are pure" [or what I referred to as amoral-that is, morality-the rightness/wrongness of actions-cannot take place until humans decide how they wish to use them].
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Long quote but what the hell.

[cradled]

The fact that we can go more than one way in interpreting this song speaks volumes about it, and the other songs on Opiate as well.

There's certainly the violent aspect, which got played down later on, the ethics aspect, and the concept that sluice raised. Personally, I like the lines about doing what you want if there are no consequences. It would make for an interesting, but undeniably more lethal world.

[sluice_van]

that is an awesome reference you posted 987 ... i have read parts of the republic; i should have remembered the story about gyges.

cradled:
my post probably concentrated on the violent aspect of the song more than anything else because of the mood i was in the night i posted it. sometimes i question if we would all be better off living in a primitive, unprotected world. but i guess that all relates to how much you value your own neck.

-sv

[Flojob]

humans are born good, things like TV, certain laws, ect. make them evil.

[Adrenalin]

wether humans are evil or not idont know...i think that humans are born nutral.dont forget evil and good is just a way of percieving things..do you consider killing a cow murder?some ppl do..but those ppl stick to killng plants instead..you see evil and good isnt the same to all ppl.
what i really wanted to point out is how much maynard progresses from wence he wrote jerj off...coming to think of it one think id like to ask him is what he thinks of some of his older lyrics now.lets face it...once he would kick someone one the head (''kill it,fuck it,kick it,shoot you in your fucking head") and now he preaches that ''who are you but my reflection,who am i to judge or strike you down?"..id defenetly say to him that some times he sounds "soooo loud'' and that ''he has a lot and nothing to say'' giving the fact that he saticks to both opinions..lol

ill save you from the trouble and answer to myself becoz i really like maynard and like what he is doing (id like to meet him one day in sit and chat terms)..one has the right to change,and i really think maynard has progresed..dont you?after all,you cant feel the same way for all matters..ok lets turn the other cheek but you cant do that all the time.i for 1 dont belive in heaven so i really want to make the most of my time in this existance while it lasts..so i say lets kick some ass!!!JERK OFF rules!!

[DSenart]

I think maynard came to my house one night and checked out my stepfather and wrote this song..

he he he..

anyways..

I really think what Maynard is trying to convey is too many people do what they want and get away with it. And it's not right and its not fair to everyone else that do what they are supposed to and never get ahead.

And of course he has taken as much of this as he can stand and now is thinking of taking personal action to resolve this age old problem.

[soberwithapenis]

Originally posted by DSenart
I think maynard came to my house one night and checked out my stepfather and wrote this song..

he he he..

anyways..

I really think what Maynard is trying to convey is too many people do what they want and get away with it. And it's not right and its not fair to everyone else that do what they are supposed to and never get ahead.

And of course he has taken as much of this as he can stand and now is thinking of taking personal action to resolve this age old problem.

I think you couldnt be farther from the truth. Tool are all about "do what you want to do." And totally against "do what they are supposed to " Who says what anyone is supposed to do or not do.

"live from your own center. Your real duty is to go away from the community to find your bliss. The society is the enemy when it imposes its structures on the individual. On the dragon there are many scales. Every one of them says 'Thou Shalt.' Kill the dragon 'Thou Shalt."

- Joseph Campbell

The age old problem is society my friend. Listen to Timmothy Leary at the begining of the Salival version of Third Eye.

Just read the quote on the Opinion Homepage.

* thanks to whomever put the link to that article. It was a good one. Plus i was at the halloween concert the night of the aforementioned interview. It was badass.*

[Choise]

I am wondering why you would say that Maynard is all about freedom of choise. This song is not about Maynard. He uses 2 people to show that one may be a jerk off, but the other is not above him. A logical person doesn't Rape people. Maynard says it himself at the log into the opinion section. "I really do have more faith in humanity then most people think I do. I get resentful and upset when people don't use their heads about stuff. It upsets me when people are selling themselves short and letting themselves down, whether it's education or information." As for humans being good or evil...This breaks that apart, because Maynard said that he has faith in Humanity. I would conclude that the alternate reality, being humans not having humanity, would not be a good thing. Humanity hurts itself, but it is humans that choose where humanity goes. He wants people to use their head so that the world can be a better place. What is a better place? A moral world, or at least something closer to it.