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View Full Version : Another layer - the universal Judith Marie


orangedarkblue
06-09-2006, 10:06 AM
Okay, here's another one for you:

The obvious meaning of 'wings for Marie/ 10,000 days' being well established, (Excellent unfolding work, nothing to add on that note) what about another, less obvious, maybe more universal layer.

If one wishes, one can read read the 'wings for Marie/ 10,000 days' lyric in a wider, more spiritual sense. Judith Marie can also be understood as the Universal Mother, Judith (http://xrl.us/Judith) - Mary Magdalene (http://xrl.us/magdalenemary) or even god's own mum (http://xrl.us/godsmum) , claiming back her Wings at the Gates of a Religion that has been dewomanized for ages. For centuries, the church has systematically profaned the image of women and downplayed the importance of mothers. Isis (Mary), The Mum, has virtually disappeared from the WASP scene. Though Hispanics seem to remember her.
Magdalene is portrayed as a whore in the known gospels. Her own gospel has recently been rediscovered. The book of Judith is deuterocanonical -not included in the common bible- .

Maynard calling upon Judith the Invincible / Mary Star of the Sea through his own mum, to trickle some water (or rather pour down in torrents, if you listen to the thunder sounds on the 2nd track) into the dessicated established church would make sense in the light of the other 'personal but universal' stuff like Vicarious and The Pot.

Further reading - Holy Blood, Holy Grail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Blood,_Holy_Grail) by Michael Baignet, Richard Leigh & Henry Lincoln (previously listed as recommended reading in Tool's official newsletter)

deps
06-09-2006, 06:00 PM
it is amazing the amount of thought that can go into a 4 person project. This band we know as Tool has helped us to strengthen our minds by the pursuit of knowledge.

orangedarkblue
06-09-2006, 11:24 PM
it is amazing the amount of thought that can go into a 4 person project. This band we know as Tool has helped us to strengthen our minds by the pursuit of knowledge.

damn straight, well it's just a thread... :)

marshall888
08-22-2006, 12:36 AM
I think you may be right on.

The song places A LOT of emphasis on the spiritual ascendence of Judith Marie after being denied her rightful place. It follows the basic story of the sacred feminine/universal mother very closely. Also, the parts when Maynard speaks about what a great person she was, his admiration is close to worship.

For those of you whose knowledge of the subject is a little rusty, also try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_movement
Notice that the subject is not always associated with Christianity.

TheJuiceOfSatan
08-22-2006, 03:55 AM
we should all admire her. though we may not know her, what has been told to us by maynard is all we really need to know. and we should admire him for having the insight to realize how great she was.

jonboy
08-22-2006, 02:30 PM
And people still say this album lacks meaning

LetGoLetgoLetGo
08-22-2006, 04:41 PM
we should all admire her. though we may not know her, what has been told to us by maynard is all we really need to know. and we should admire him for having the insight to realize how great she was.

I disagree.

To admire someone, I believe you actually need to know someone. Not what Maynard says.

BUT - Even though my grandmother is still alive, this song reminds me of her. And I admire her. Not that she's paralyzed in any way, but she is very into her religious beliefs.

PriceisRight
08-22-2006, 09:56 PM
I think it's admiration not on a god sense....but because she did have pain in her life.

She trudged through the shit of paralysis, staying strong in her faith. She wasn't being denied her "wings" but now that she died she can go "I worked hard for you...give em here!" and take her rightful place.

Not to mention it was his mother. Admiration is to be expected.

of course though...good music can be interpreted in many different ways.

I always thought of the rain sound as a mourning sound effect.....cause I think they stop at the give me my wings part. But I also like your reason for them