Intension/Right in two

[futant55]

I was reading the Wikipedia definition for intension;
Intension (or "connotation") refers to the meaning or characteristics encompassed by a given word, often expressed by a definition.

Intension is often discussed with regard to extension. Intension refers to the set of all possible things a word could describe. By contrast, extension (or denotation) refers to the set of all actual things the word describes. For example, the intension of 'car' is all possible cars (including mile-high cars made of chocolate). But the extension of 'car' is all actual cars (past, present and future), which will amount to millions or billions of cars, but probably doesn't include any mile-high cars made of chocolate.

Intension seems to be about the beginning of our creation and giving the definition, I think its about how in the beginning there were infinite possibilities of what we could become. Then Right in Two is what we actually have become. Its the Extension to the Intension if you will.

[Exegesis]

I was reading the Wikipedia definition for intension;
Intension (or "connotation") refers to the meaning or characteristics encompassed by a given word, often expressed by a definition.

Intension is often discussed with regard to extension. Intension refers to the set of all possible things a word could describe. By contrast, extension (or denotation) refers to the set of all actual things the word describes. For example, the intension of 'car' is all possible cars (including mile-high cars made of chocolate). But the extension of 'car' is all actual cars (past, present and future), which will amount to millions or billions of cars, but probably doesn't include any mile-high cars made of chocolate.

Intension seems to be about the beginning of our creation and giving the definition, I think its about how in the beginning there were infinite possibilities of what we could become. Then Right in Two is what we actually have become. Its the Extension to the Intension if you will.

That's cool. They definately go together. And you've revealed a neat way to look at it that is pretty clear.

[EmbraceTdOxOmL]

very nice man, i like this idea. i wonder if any members of the band are fans of the movie Dogma?

[Kochipahk]

I was reading the Wikipedia definition for intension;
Intension (or "connotation") refers to the meaning or characteristics encompassed by a given word, often expressed by a definition.

Intension is often discussed with regard to extension. Intension refers to the set of all possible things a word could describe. By contrast, extension (or denotation) refers to the set of all actual things the word describes. For example, the intension of 'car' is all possible cars (including mile-high cars made of chocolate). But the extension of 'car' is all actual cars (past, present and future), which will amount to millions or billions of cars, but probably doesn't include any mile-high cars made of chocolate.

Intension seems to be about the beginning of our creation and giving the definition, I think its about how in the beginning there were infinite possibilities of what we could become. Then Right in Two is what we actually have become. Its the Extension to the Intension if you will.
Brilliant.

[und_keine_eier]

lol your little rhyme makes me giggle.

[allusion7.0]

you know, I always found a huge connection between Intension and Right in Two. Intension seemed to be a bit of a segue into Right in Two. In my opinion, Right in Two coupled with Rosetta Stone and possibly Vicarious or Jambi are hte focal points of this album.

Not to start any dumbass theories etc. but did anyone findthis whole album a little unfulfilling? (if that's even a fucking word) I listened to Lateralus for practically 4months straight.Seriously, the only music I listened to. I've listened to nothing but this since it was released, yet i'm not getting quiet the same thing out of it. Maybe i just haven't transceneded to the next level of the music yet. the album doesn't feel whole to me yet, so i'll go crawl back into my cave for another twenty listens.

[futant55]

When they play Right in two Live The start it with the synth part from Intension.
The more I listen to it the more I like it. This has by far been the hardest Tool album for me to get into, but I'm coming around.
I don't thnk this has been mentioned but does anyone think the stone he is talking about in intension is the Rosetta Stone.

[sprucemoose3311]

i think intension is adam and eve in the garden... then it connects to right in two. humans start as pure in intension. after their banishment they have free will and this is what they choose...

[futant55]

i think intension is adam and eve in the garden... then it connects to right in two. humans start as pure in intension. after their banishment they have free will and this is what they choose...
I think you mean pure intention. I didn't even know about the word intension until I looked it up for this song.

[Yondo]

Great job. I thought Maynard made up the word with some sort of poetic licence.

"Intense-ion? In-tension? Inten-zion?"

Now it makes a bit more sense. We just need to link it to Right in Two.

[RedMetalSox]

When they play Right in two Live The start it with the synth part from Intension.
The more I listen to it the more I like it. This has by far been the hardest Tool album for me to get into, but I'm coming around.
I don't thnk this has been mentioned but does anyone think the stone he is talking about in intension is the Rosetta Stone.
Yeah I thought that two, but still can't make any real connection...all I know is he says "here we have a stone" what stone I don't know.

you know, I always found a huge connection between Intension and Right in Two. Intension seemed to be a bit of a segue into Right in Two. In my opinion, Right in Two coupled with Rosetta Stone and possibly Vicarious or Jambi are hte focal points of this album.

Its seems to me the songs are all in two's.
I correlate Vicarios to Jambi simply because they're the only songs on the CD that have the same 'heavy' feel.
WFM/TKD is a no brainer
The Pot goes with Lipan because for me Lipan sounds like someone getting high.
LK/RS another no brainer
and then Intension/RIT go together because they relate In topics and are both very mellow songs.
Viginte Tres is there for some other reason...maybe to make the 11th Track for the CD.

[æmoeba•°·.]

Viginti Tres, I thought, was maybe the life of Judith coming, climaxing, and seceding, then finally ending...

Nice connections by the way.

[jonboy]

Intension: in tension- under strain before spliting Right in Two

[RedMetalSox]

Intension: in tension- under strain before spliting Right in Two
I like it

[VinVici]

Yeah I thought that two, but still can't make any real connection...all I know is he says "here we have a stone" what stone I don't know.

From the bible; John 8,7:

But when they persisted in asking Him, He [=Jesus] straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."


far-fetched?

[Yondo]

Let's use Dictionary.com for Stone, shall we?

Stone: A primitive device used for killing people.

Maybe not a direct definition... but it SHOULD be onthere.

[ApostlesCreed]

Intension: in tension- under strain before spliting Right in Two

I had a thought similar to this. I didn't even known "intension" was an accepted word. My thought was that the word: intension, was a combination of "intention" and "tension" stating a movement towards something (intention), building tension along the way... and then splitting "Right In Two."

[jonboy]

I had a thought similar to this. I didn't even known "intension" was an accepted word. My thought was that the word: intension, was a combination of "intention" and "tension" stating a movement towards something (intention), building tension along the way... and then splitting "Right In Two."

Its not an accepted word, but since when have tool been ones to spell words to the correct english. Their words are transformed to mean something totaly new. Your definition is probably right.

[Caduceus11]

I think the post about all the songs in 2's is a good idea that we should look into...if you consider the album art, then you might get the idea that is what's to be done. Has anyone else put the LOSTKEYS puzzle together?>....that may explain VT and the odd number of songs>?

[spacemonkeyadb]

Its not an accepted word, but since when have tool been ones to spell words to the correct english. Their words are transformed to mean something totaly new. Your definition is probably right.

Very very wrong. I know Tool mave made up words for song titles in the past ("Parabol" for example), but they haven't done that here. "Intension" is a word with a definite meaning in English, even if it isn't in common everyday usage.

The INTENSION of a word is roughly it's meaning, whereas the EXTENSION of a word is the set of actual things in the world that are picked out by that meaning.

Tool are not stupid, and are most certainly aware of the meaning of this word, though they may well have also used it because of its similarity to "intention" and "(in)tension" in order to reference those concepts as well.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I was reading the Wikipedia definition for intension;
Intension (or "connotation") refers to the meaning or characteristics encompassed by a given word, often expressed by a definition.

Intension is often discussed with regard to extension. Intension refers to the set of all possible things a word could describe. By contrast, extension (or denotation) refers to the set of all actual things the word describes. For example, the intension of 'car' is all possible cars (including mile-high cars made of chocolate). But the extension of 'car' is all actual cars (past, present and future), which will amount to millions or billions of cars, but probably doesn't include any mile-high cars made of chocolate.

Intension seems to be about the beginning of our creation and giving the definition, I think its about how in the beginning there were infinite possibilities of what we could become. Then Right in Two is what we actually have become. Its the Extension to the Intension if you will.

Excellant find. I completely agree with this.

[Inner_Eulogy]

you know, I always found a huge connection between Intension and Right in Two. Intension seemed to be a bit of a segue into Right in Two. In my opinion, Right in Two coupled with Rosetta Stone and possibly Vicarious or Jambi are hte focal points of this album.

Not to start any dumbass theories etc. but did anyone findthis whole album a little unfulfilling? (if that's even a fucking word) I listened to Lateralus for practically 4months straight.Seriously, the only music I listened to. I've listened to nothing but this since it was released, yet i'm not getting quiet the same thing out of it. Maybe i just haven't transceneded to the next level of the music yet. the album doesn't feel whole to me yet, so i'll go crawl back into my cave for another twenty listens.

I feel exactly the same way. I still love the album but it totally leaves me feeling unfulfilled, like watching a really good movie and then you're halfway through it and then <poof> the power or cable goes out and you're just sitting there like "what the fuck?!"

I definately love this album but for some reason it just lacks the fulfillment that Lateralus had. Not in the fact of the different approach to the music (which I totally digged) but I just can't quite place my finger on what it is that just leaves me feeling like the glass is halfway empty.

[mike09]

I feel exactly the same way. I still love the album but it totally leaves me feeling unfulfilled, like watching a really good movie and then you're halfway through it and then <poof> the power or cable goes out and you're just sitting there like "what the fuck?!"

I definately love this album but for some reason it just lacks the fulfillment that Lateralus had. Not in the fact of the different approach to the music (which I totally digged) but I just can't quite place my finger on what it is that just leaves me feeling like the glass is halfway empty.

It feels like just one cd in a double disc, IMO. Your analogy is right on. It feels like you're watching a really good movie and then it cuts off halfway through.

[UConn Philo]

I've got news for anyone that thinks Tool took artistic lisence or doesn't think 'intension' is a word. Philosophers know you can't switch out co-referential expressions in intensional contexts and maintain the statement's truth value, for example! The definition futant55 supplied us with seems a linguistic notion, one that I'm not sure I'm familiar with (and I'm always suspect of Wikipedia, frankly), but both the logical notion of 'intension' as well as 'intention' are and have been in the philosophical literature for quite some time. I'd have to say I've always understood the song in this context.

To clarify: CLARK KENT and SUPERMAN are co-referential expressions, definite descriptions of the same object - the guy that survived the destruction of his planet, etc.

(Lois Lane believes SUPERMAN can fly) is a true sentence. But swapping it out won't maintain its truth value, as (Lois Lane believes CLARK KENT can fly) is false.

[EssnayRepXTamEt]

Tool are known to use concepts from Bob Frissel's (sp?) books. One of the books has a chapter called "intension." Maybe you should read that. I have yet to, but plan on it.

[UConn Philo]

In case anyone cares about what I was talking about, here's a reference: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/intensional-trans-verbs/

[spacemonkeyadb]

In case anyone cares about what I was talking about, here's a reference: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/intensional-trans-verbs/

This seems to be something of a derivative use of the term. The link below gives the most common use of "intension" within the field of analytic philosophy:

http://www.philosophypages.com/dy/e9.htm#exte

Extension / Intension:

Distinction between ways in which the meaning of a term may be regarded: its EXTENSION, or denotation, is the collection of things to which the term applies; its INTENSION, or connotation, is the set of features those things are presumed to have in common.


CLARK KENT and SUPERMAN are co-referential expressions, definite descriptions of the same object - the guy that survived the destruction of his planet, etc.

(Lois Lane believes SUPERMAN can fly) is a true sentence. But swapping it out won't maintain its truth value, as (Lois Lane believes CLARK KENT can fly) is false.

The OP's definition from Wikipedia was accurate. "Clark Kent" and "Superman" have different INTENSIONs (i.e. different connotations or meanings), but they have the same EXTENSION (i.e. they happen to denote the same person).
It is because of their differing intensions that we cannot always swap the one name for the other, even though the two names refer to the same individual.

[UConn Philo]

This seems to be something of a derivative use of the term. The link below gives the most common use of "intension" within the field of analytic philosophy:

http://www.philosophypages.com/dy/e9.htm#exte

Extension / Intension:

Distinction between ways in which the meaning of a term may be regarded: its EXTENSION, or denotation, is the collection of things to which the term applies; its INTENSION, or connotation, is the set of features those things are presumed to have in common.



The OP's definition from Wikipedia was accurate. "Clark Kent" and "Superman" have different INTENSIONs (i.e. different connotations or meanings), but they have the same EXTENSION (i.e. they happen to denote the same person).
It is because of their differing intensions that we cannot always swap the one name for the other, even though the two names refer to the same individual.

I think we're saying the same thing... I was just replying to people such as jonboy. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy article I posted a link to goes in depth on this topic - and the SEP is pretty much the only reputable source for philosophy on the net, as each entry is written by a leading publishing philosopher on the subject.

[spacemonkeyadb]

I think we're saying the same thing... I was just replying to people such as jonboy. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy article I posted a link to goes in depth on this topic - and the SEP is pretty much the only reputable source for philosophy on the net, as each entry is written by a leading publishing philosopher on the subject.

Yeah, we agree. I just thought that your link would be a bit much for most readers and wanted to provide a simpler, more concise explanation.

And there are plenty of good philosophy sources online. Check out this page...

http://consc.net/resources.html

[UConn Philo]

It's true, for those in the know there are many good sources of information, I only meant "reputable" in an academic context. Your link is a page edited by David Chalmers, so it definitely meets that mark. Most people probably aren't up to sniffing out the difference between mock or popular philosophy and the real thing any more than they are up to sniffing out the difference between science and pseudoscience. Hopefully we've given people on this thread something to think about, at least.

Any idea where Chalmers is teaching now? After he left the University of Arizona I didn't look into where he was going.

[2and46]

I was reading the Wikipedia definition for intension;
Intension (or "connotation") refers to the meaning or characteristics encompassed by a given word, often expressed by a definition.

Intension is often discussed with regard to extension. Intension refers to the set of all possible things a word could describe. By contrast, extension (or denotation) refers to the set of all actual things the word describes. For example, the intension of 'car' is all possible cars (including mile-high cars made of chocolate). But the extension of 'car' is all actual cars (past, present and future), which will amount to millions or billions of cars, but probably doesn't include any mile-high cars made of chocolate.

Intension seems to be about the beginning of our creation and giving the definition, I think its about how in the beginning there were infinite possibilities of what we could become. Then Right in Two is what we actually have become. Its the Extension to the Intension if you will.

That would be a great premise in the social problems class I teach (which often evolves into the philosophical of current events). I like your takes.

I have thought about what you posed before, but never expressed it. Intension definately segues into Right in Two. A sort of Parabol/ Parabola kind of thing. Good job. Makes me want to research other dyad possibilities in their music.
Beyond the obvious...D/R/T etc.

[Alex in Chains]

There's a thread on this? I would have thought it obvious.

[FloZthx]

It feels like just one cd in a double disc, IMO. Your analogy is right on. It feels like you're watching a really good movie and then it cuts off halfway through.

Well, where theres one they're bound to divide it right in two. So they divided their album right in two. I hope. gosh I hadn't thought of that but wouldn't it be orgasmic?

[Kotowboy]

I always hoped theyd release 10,000 days and then part 2 like a year later :)

It does seem really short. It needs ONE last song to finish it off.

I'd love there to be a whole new album in the....(ahem) Wings.

[slamminsalmon]

excellent thinking so far
i like where this thread is going, but for some reason when i hear the phrase right in two. i think of a decision somone cant make. Like being on the fence.

[Lebowski Urban Achiever]

I was reading the Wikipedia definition for intension;
Intension (or "connotation") refers to the meaning or characteristics encompassed by a given word, often expressed by a definition.

Intension is often discussed with regard to extension. Intension refers to the set of all possible things a word could describe. By contrast, extension (or denotation) refers to the set of all actual things the word describes. For example, the intension of 'car' is all possible cars (including mile-high cars made of chocolate). But the extension of 'car' is all actual cars (past, present and future), which will amount to millions or billions of cars, but probably doesn't include any mile-high cars made of chocolate.

Intension seems to be about the beginning of our creation and giving the definition, I think its about how in the beginning there were infinite possibilities of what we could become. Then Right in Two is what we actually have become. Its the Extension to the Intension if you will.

After months of reading other peoples interpretations of Tool lyrics/songs, I figured it was time to offer my own up for scrutiny. I'm starting here because I really think this is an excellent interpretation; and I want to be tied to an individual who goes beyond the actual song, or the lyrics, and looks for clues in the song title. And I'd like to say: I read a lot of negative shit on here and its pretty disheartening. Interpretating music is a liberal exercise that everyone should feel free to engage in, and should not feel threatened by somebody who is arrogant enough to believe his/her idea is better than another's, especially when it can't be verified. So, here goes...excuse me if somebody has already went to bat for this idea.

I want to shed a little more light on the author's interpretation of "Intension." It is important to take not of how the word is spelled; the word "Intention" has been transformed into "IntenSion". The emphasis here is on the "s." Intent suggests purpose, and to this degree I agree. But given the nature of the song, and its likely link to "Right in Two," it may very well have something to do with being in tension, the act of stretching or straining. What do you think?

[Lebowski Urban Achiever]

I was reading the Wikipedia definition for intension;
Intension (or "connotation") refers to the meaning or characteristics encompassed by a given word, often expressed by a definition.

Intension is often discussed with regard to extension. Intension refers to the set of all possible things a word could describe. By contrast, extension (or denotation) refers to the set of all actual things the word describes. For example, the intension of 'car' is all possible cars (including mile-high cars made of chocolate). But the extension of 'car' is all actual cars (past, present and future), which will amount to millions or billions of cars, but probably doesn't include any mile-high cars made of chocolate.

Intension seems to be about the beginning of our creation and giving the definition, I think its about how in the beginning there were infinite possibilities of what we could become. Then Right in Two is what we actually have become. Its the Extension to the Intension if you will.

After months of reading other peoples interpretations of Tool lyrics/songs, I figured it was time to offer my own up for scrutiny. I'm starting here because I really think this is an excellent interpretation; and I want to be tied to an individual who goes beyond the actual song, or the lyrics, and looks for clues in the song title. And I'd like to say: I read a lot of negative shit on here and its pretty disheartening. Interpretating music is a liberal exercise that everyone should feel free to engage in, and should not feel threatened by somebody who is arrogant enough to believe his/her idea is better than another's, especially when it can't be verified. So, here goes...excuse me if somebody has already went to bat for this idea.

I want to shed a little more light on the author's interpretation of "Intension." It is important to take not of how the word is spelled; the word "Intention" has been transformed into "IntenSion". The emphasis here is on the "s." Intent suggests purpose, and to this degree I agree. But given the nature of the song, and its likely link to "Right in Two," it may very well have something to do with being in tension, the act of stretching or straining. What do you think?

[vesicapiscis]

pure as we begin

[the midas touch]

Is this true regarding the lyrics at the beginning of the song: (These lyrics are played backwards: Work hard, Stay in school, Listen to your mother, your father is right/rising/right, son... Jesus loves you... Work hard, Stay in school, Listen to your mother, your father is right/rising/right son...)

Another example of how things should be (intension), vs. how they really turned out for MJK (RiT)?

pure as we begin
Pure as we begin.
Pure as we come in.
Pure as we begin.
Ruled by will alone
Intension of human beings, by definition.

[futant55]

Wow, I totally forgot I started this thread, you guys really took off with it, I like everything everyone wrote.