My theroy...

[exiledvoid]

I don't know if this has been discussed but people are pretty set on the song being all about MJK's mother Judith and I know it isn't. I thought the same thing the first time I heard this song with all that I knew about Tool but I introduced a person to Tool who heard something completly different and now I hear it too.

In my mind the idea most people have of this song is NOTHING Tool would ever do or say in this manner.


The song is a direct map of what is going to happen.

(Some things to keep in mind)
You do not go home you return home.
You do not get Wings when you die only angels have them.
What happens when the job of Satan is done?

----------------

Listen to the tales and romanticize,
How we follow the path of the hero.
Boast about the day when the rivers overrun.
How we rise to the height of our halo.
(This paragraph doesn't speak to me so clearly but I take from it how ignorant we are to brag that when God passes judgment "I will go to heaven" almost bragging)

Listen to the tales as we all rationalize
Our way into the arms of the savior,
Feigning all the trials and the tribulations;
None of us have actually been there.
Not like you.
(Who else has more experience in Trials and Tribulations then Lucifer himself?)

Ignorant fibbers in the congregation
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.
None of them can even hold a candle up to you.
Blinded by choices, hypocrites won't [seek / see].
(Another paragraph that doesn't speak to me well but I am sure other people will have some input once they see my view.)

But, enough about the collective Judas.
Who could deny you were the one who
[would have made it, / illuminated]
You'll have a piece of the divine.
(Who would want a piece of the divine? Who would want it so bad to challange god?)

And this little light of mine, the gift you passed on to me;
I'll let it shine to guide you safely on your way,
Your way home ...
(My ability to sin is your way to heaven. Which is true in the whole God VS Satan story)

Oh, what are they going to do when the lights go down
Without you to guide them all to Zion?
What are they going to do when the rivers overrun
Other than tremble incessantly?
(If Satan were to longer be accepting souls into Hell what would happen?)

High as a wave, but I'll rise on up off the ground.
You [are / were] the light and the way, they'll only read about.
I only pray, [Heaven / God] knows when to lift you out.
Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough, you're going home.
(This speaks of Satan ascending to heaven again.)

You're the only one who can hold your head up high,
Shake your fists at the gates saying:
"I have come home now!
Fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father.
Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.
It's time now!
My time now!
Give me my, give me my wings!"
(This is the one. The paragraph that explains it all! Oh, how arragont of you to come to the gates of heaven and demand someone fetch the ghost, the son and the father. It's my time now? C'mon now. The entire faith of God is based around YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO TO HELL. Give me my wings? Wings stripped and cast out of heaven.... sound familiar?

Give me my wings!

You are the light and way, that they will only read about.

Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance,
Burden of proof tossed upon the believers.
You were the witness, my eyes, my evidence,
Judith Marie, unconditional one.
(The only reference made to his mother IMO and it is a comparitive statement about people requiring proof to belive, wether MJK knows what happened after her death or not he is suggesting she is the proof of why he writes this song.)

Daylight dims leaving cold fluorescence.
Difficult to see you in this light.
Please forgive this bold suggestion:
Should you see your Maker's face tonight,
Look Him in the eye, look Him in the eye, and tell Him:
I never lived a lie, never took a life, but surely saved one.
Hallelujah, it's time for you to bring me home.
(Do I even need to explain should you see your makers face tonight look him in the eye? Satan never lied or took a life but surely saved one(Judith Marie) as an oppisite of going to heaven or hell she made the choice of heaven thus saving her.)

[CaseLogic]

While I'm not going to flame you because you clearly put some time and thought into this, I just don't see it man. The song is pretty clearly about his mom.

First off, the whole 10K days reference, = ~27 years, the length of time his mom was paralyzed before passing away. Also, you're completely disregarding the whole first part of the song (Wings for MARIE), which is, in my opinion, clearly about his mom passing away.

Also, the song is sung with so much emotion that it wouldn't even make sense to be about some song about Satan... speaking of which, I still don't think I fully grasped your theory, something about Satan rising up though.

Actually the more I read it, the more your theory makes no sense to me. Nice try, I suppose, but it's just so obviously about his mom that it's not funny.

[Bloody]

While I'm not going to flame you because you clearly put some time and thought into this.

LOL, good one!

[weak&weary]

I don't understand what the point of this song would be, given if your interpretation is correct. Maynard simply analyzing the nature of Satan seems uncharacteristic of him, as it is an utterly worthless topic as presented here (no offense intended). If it doesn't say something MORE about US, about humanity (which this doesn't), than Maynard would presumably not bother with it in the first place.

The song as it stands says a whole lot about about people: devotion, love, hypocrisy, belief, etc., which certainly IS typical of Maynard. Granted, it seem oddly simplistic for him to present his ideas so unambiously, yet the topics and context of their presentation are just what Tool have always done.

But that's just my interpretation, which is prone to imperfection.

[exiledvoid]

Manyard is a man of Duality and the song may have both meanings as a guise for people to believe. I don't mean the same Hell and Heaven as you do and certainly not the same Lucifer as most believe but that is aside the point. I'm just saying it is really odd when the same words applied to 2 different ideas you get 2 totally different stories.

27 Years can also be a prediction of when the war is going to end. We all know or at least should know in the near future people are going to die in the streets outside our house. Something is already happening and gears are in motion and time is all it takes. Now not to get off on the end of the world as we know it topic my opinion shows what will happen when there is no one left to kill. When we all believe the truth. When we are not all blinded by fear and press.(Which are one of the same). Manyard is the reason why I listen to my crazy friends. He said something that not only spoke to me but confirmed why.

We all assume 27 years relates directly to his Mother but honestly do you think that is true? When has he ever been so blunt?

The Lucifer I know is the undiscribable by words, there are no horns nor pitchfork. In fact he is the exact oppisite. Beauty in the form of man. I once heard of a picture from a friend who explained to me it had a picture of Lucifer being cast out of Heaven and as not a very artsy person he explained it was pure beauty.

[weak&weary]

We all assume 27 years relates directly to his Mother but honestly do you think that is true? When has he ever been so blunt?
I and many think it to be true, which is justified by the less cryptic nature of the entire album.

...my opinion shows what will happen when there is no one left to kill. When we all believe the truth. When we are not all blinded by fear and press.(Which are one of the same). Manyard is the reason why I listen to my crazy friends. He said something that not only spoke to me but confirmed why.
Could you explain this idea further? Forgive me, its sort of difficult for me to catch what "spoke to you".

[CaseLogic]

Why would he dedicate a song to his mom and make it cryptic? I think by NOT making it cryptic and straightforward, unlike many Tool songs, it makes the song even more true to its meaning

[AguirreWrathOfTool]

Oh, how out of context you are. Do you even pay attention to anything? Ever?


Clues that the meaning of the piece you "know" is right is actually not:

-The piece of music is comprised of two sections, of which 10,000 Days is only one. The first one is called "Wings for Marie." Now Lucifer has had many names and pseudonyms over the years, but Marie is definitely not one of them. And no his mother is not a metaphor for Lucifer, because that would be terrible writing that wouldn't make sense.
-The attitude of this piece toward its subject is one of deep respect and admiration. If you had listened to the rest of the album you would know that all other references to Lucifer are not so flattering:
"The Devil and his had me down...but you changed that all for me, lifted me up turned me round" (Jambi)
...And how about the ending, where Legion (the demon Jesus casts out in the New Testament, who said it was one of many, i.e. legions of Hell, legions of Lucifer, etc.) is basically verbally bitch-slapped: "Silence, Legion! Save your poison! Silence, Legion! Stay out of my way!"

-Listen to the commentary for the Judith video on aMotion, in which he goes into more detail about the "ignorant fibbers in the congregation."

-Oh yeah, and, you know, common sense. It could not be more about his mother. It's certainly an entertaining theory, but anyone can interpret anything any way they want and make it sound halfway plausible. But there is absolutely nothing, I repeat, ABOLUTELY NOTHING in the form of textual evidence or statements from the artists themselves that would even remotely suggest something as absolutely ludicrous as your interpretation.



It's ok to have an opinion, but when you say things like "I know it isn't"...then it's just an open invitation for people to write back and comment on the sheer absurdity of what you just wrote.

[elevation]

There are many different ways to legitimately interpret lyrics.

This, fortunately, is not one of them.

[yossaricat]

Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough, you're going home.
(This speaks of Satan ascending to heaven again.)




yeah and satan was in hell for only 27 years. i understand that you may feel that this song is satanic but that is one hell of a hole in your theory.

[exiledvoid]

I don't mean he is in hell for 27 years I belive he will be for only 27 more.

[exiledvoid]

I don't at all think the song is satanic. That is just the impression people get when you talk about religion in a song. What will happen when God wins the deal and there is no one left for Lucifer to sway his way? And the other way around.

[CaseLogic]

Can you just give up on this thread, I don't think you'll find anyone in their right mind who agrees with you.

[exiledvoid]

I didn't ask you to agree with me just consider it. Explain to me how Judith was guiding people to Zion? And why when she is gone no one will know what to do?

[Choice Breath]

I can't resist this: I'll support your theroy if you change your name to Leroy so that it's Leroy's Theroy.

Then we can start a thread about how Wings and 10K Days are actually about President Bush. Like, maybe the elder Bush is an incestuous, homosexual pedophile, and he used to molest W and call him Judith Marie.

I mean, just because Maynard actually uses his mother's name in the song, and the mountain of other evidence indicating it's about her, doesn't mean it's about her.

[justify_denials]

Another layer to lyrics are clearly stating the flaws and bullshit of religion.....

"Ignorant fibbers in the congregation
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.
None of them can even hold a candle up to you.
Blinded by choices, hypocrites won't [seek / see]."

If these religous idiots can't even hold candle to you then how are they going to enlighten you with their religous beliefs, their dogma. How is religion for that matter going to enlighten you? They spew bullshit about sympathy, they don't even know what their talking about. They only want sympathy for themselves, greedy selfish religous fucks. And it's all true, what happens when you are in a very religous family and you announce you don't believe in the religion? You are banished (their way of keeping the shitty religion alive and shoving it down your throat.....sort of like converting other ethnics to christianity, only way to keep a bullshit religion alive...the mexicans suffered this bullshit), even your own family does not love you or feel sympathy for you (Been way to hogwashed, their way or no way). You are not enlightened by them, after all you are banished (Your better off, go read some books, study philosophy, kill all christians [or just blow up churches] and start a better new religion that is up to modern time beliefs [christianity is old, and the way people live now don't live like we did 1000 years ago].....fuck religion?) Then again, if you were not, then what comes of it? Your family spews bullshit of how god has sympathy for you? Sure, maybe god would have sympathy for because you may not be smart enough to leave the fucking stupid religion in the first place.

Fuck religion.

[justify_denials]

More or less this song contains personal beliefs, irony, and hypothetical questions layed out in statements as to signify they should'nt be questions but rather that is just how the fuck things are. When I hear this song I feel the emotions of complex things such as: accepting things as they are and you can't change it.......you can have your own personal beliefs no matter how different they are or how irrational they are. That is life.

[AguirreWrathOfTool]

Another layer to lyrics are clearly stating the flaws and bullshit of religion.....

"Ignorant fibbers in the congregation
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.
None of them can even hold a candle up to you.
Blinded by choices, hypocrites won't [seek / see]."

If these religous idiots can't even hold candle to you then how are they going to enlighten you with their religous beliefs, their dogma. How is religion for that matter going to enlighten you? They spew bullshit about sympathy, they don't even know what their talking about. They only want sympathy for themselves, greedy selfish religous fucks. And it's all true, what happens when you are in a very religous family and you announce you don't believe in the religion? You are banished (their way of keeping the shitty religion alive and shoving it down your throat.....sort of like converting other ethnics to christianity, only way to keep a bullshit religion alive...the mexicans suffered this bullshit), even your own family does not love you or feel sympathy for you (Been way to hogwashed, their way or no way). You are not enlightened by them, after all you are banished (Your better off, go read some books, study philosophy, kill all christians [or just blow up churches] and start a better new religion that is up to modern time beliefs [christianity is old, and the way people live now don't live like we did 1000 years ago].....fuck religion?) Then again, if you were not, then what comes of it? Your family spews bullshit of how god has sympathy for you? Sure, maybe god would have sympathy for because you may not be smart enough to leave the fucking stupid religion in the first place.

Fuck religion.



Looks like someone wasn't hugged enough as a child.

[justify_denials]

It is just observations.

[AguirreWrathOfTool]

"Kill all Christians?" "Blow up churches?" Your rantings are hostile and sloppy almost to the point of pure nonsense. My friend, you are no better than the people you are criticizing. Any intelligent person can see that people can use their beliefs (religious or otherwise) for good as well as evil, because there are both good and bad people of every persuasion. In the piece of music we are discussing, it is quite clear that Maynard felt that his mother was one of those people who set a positive example with their faith, and how more people should stop being hypocritical and be more like her. Tool's greatest wish is that people use whatever means they choose to create positive things in the world, and I'm sorry to have to break this to you but...it is a fact that some people's religious beliefs inspire them to do great things (i.e. people like MLK, the Dalai Lama, Mother Teresa). You are obviously very upset about something, but that doesn't make the idea that all of religion is a curse upon mankind any less dead wrong. All it does is show how you have some issues of your own to sort out.

[justify_denials]

I never said I was serious? Let me put it this way.........religion, the popular ones that is, kill more people in a year than Satanism does! I am sorry to break it to an ignorant person such as yourself but religion also starts wars. Those people who were inspired by religion to do great things could have been inspired by something else to do a great thing if religion never had existed. But I say, none the less, and still joking, why not blow up churches? Stained glass windows let enough light in but you cannot see what is going on inside right? Why? So preists can rape little children! Are you going to stand by the congregation that rapes little children then tries to cover it up? Are you going to stand by the congregation that starts wars and kills mostly innocent people? Are you going to stand by the congregation that is based on deception, fear, false accusations to coerce people into their beliefs and tell them what they think people should do without letting them think for themselves? Do you think the Salem witch trials were really about "real" witches? Think again, you'll find it was about greed, and crime deterrant. No I don't doubt at all that people have been inspired by religion for good things; I believe to be truly great is to follow jesus and to defy the church, like Jesus, go against the church and their shovinistic (sp?) attitudes, question the churches authority and thus become Jesus, the son of god, thereby God yourself and the church are just the fucking middle men.....God, the church, Jesus..........the church and religion are the middlemen, the very people who Maynard says he hates. It's all there.

[justify_denials]

My friend, you are no better than the people you are criticizing..

Not at all true. Do I look like one of those damn conservatist christians up in politics dictating our future with my dogmatic point of views based on the commandments? Am I using political power to contradict the fact that we have a constitution that that says we have the right to freedom of speech? There has been a string of this shit going on in the FCC lately. Recently a local radio station (among others) received a new list of banned words (Among stating a $500,000 fine for using them...Which is actually very illegal but its commercial crime so its alright. Go figure?) Among the list contained these words: Breast (Cannot say [my wife has breast cancer]), car (in reference to the bottocks) and ass, among a few others I forget. Also they just banned saying website links on the station for peoples personal websites.

Question: How common are our constitutional rights being broken by these assholes?

I am nothing like the people who I criticized because 1) I will never start a war 2) I will not willingly kill someone 2) I joke about the impossible when in fact I know what is done is done and even if I had a time machine I would not go back in time and erase religion 3) I am for personal freedom 4) I am agnostic 5) Did I mention I like to dream and joke about the impossible? 6) Get a sense a humor and realize that god is not only love, but evil as well. For if he created the world he would have to have all qualities and all aspects that exist throughout the world 6.1) God is man/woman. God is good/evil. God is ugly/beutiful.

God is the perfect equality of all life.

And if you happened to know that the number "666" is not the number of the beast but it actually a number related to god. "616" is the true number of the beast (Research).
2+3=5
6(6)6
6(1)6

6-1=5 = the 2 3 = synchronicity and god and satan are one.

HAHA. Not to serious about that but crazy coincidence none the less.

[Existence]

And this guy calls himself justify denials. Maybe you need to work on that.........

Anyways, umm yeah.....This song is defenitely not about Lucifer.

That should some this crap up.

[justify_denials]

And this guy calls himself justify denials. Maybe you need to work on that.........

Anyways, umm yeah.....This song is defenitely not about Lucifer.

That should some this crap up.
Maybe you need to work on being an important part of "existence."

I never justified my denials let alone I never made any denials.

[justify_denials]

.

[a788]

i actually find your theory very interesting. my only rebut is that the song is called "wings for marie."

[justify_denials]

No, it's called "10,000 Days (Wings pt. 2)" Your thinking of the first part.
Why can't you have one song, with two parts with different names? Tool just did it.

[a788]

its understood. im not going to argue with you for that. we both know it could go either way. but without twisting it, one would assume that the song is "Wings For Marie Pt. 2" or "10,000 days"

[justify_denials]

True, very good point indeed.

[elevation]

justify_denials, have you read any of your posts out loud? Ever?

Religion is not the reason there is greed and corruption in its organizations. It is people. I beg of you to show me a single institution in the history of the world that is not corrupt, no matter the origin, the doctrine, the principles behind it.

And you blame religion. You really aren't any different from your enemies in the congregation because both of you just build walls out of doctrine and hide behind them, calling everyone on the other side evil and unenlightened. Right in...two?

[Terry21]

Your theroy is utter shit.

[Luosdasa]

Religion is not the reason there is greed and corruption in its organizations.

Yeh, religion is just the epitome of corrupt and greedy organisarions.

Seriously though, i think people need to watch out when they are bagging out religion. While on a large scale, i happen to beleive religion is one of the worst things ever to apear on the world, on a personaly level, religion does a lot of good. Many, many, many individuals find some kind of happiness, acceptance, hope, and purpose through religion. And that is a great thing...

The problem is when you get a whole bunch of individuals together who's descovered purpose is to force people to beleive in their religion, and discriminate against, kill, etc. all those who dont, or cheat and extort those who do.

While religion may be not so great... there is nothing wrong with religious persons.


As to the theory, yeh, interesting idea's, and someone looking at it may nod their head... unless they saw the whole motherfucking load of evidence to the contrary.

[H-462]

I never said I was serious? Let me put it this way.........religion, the popular ones that is, kill more people in a year than Satanism does! I am sorry to break it to an ignorant person such as yourself but religion also starts wars. Those people who were inspired by religion to do great things could have been inspired by something else to do a great thing if religion never had existed. But I say, none the less, and still joking, why not blow up churches? Stained glass windows let enough light in but you cannot see what is going on inside right? Why? So preists can rape little children! Are you going to stand by the congregation that rapes little children then tries to cover it up? Are you going to stand by the congregation that starts wars and kills mostly innocent people? Are you going to stand by the congregation that is based on deception, fear, false accusations to coerce people into their beliefs and tell them what they think people should do without letting them think for themselves? Do you think the Salem witch trials were really about "real" witches? Think again, you'll find it was about greed, and crime deterrant. No I don't doubt at all that people have been inspired by religion for good things; I believe to be truly great is to follow jesus and to defy the church, like Jesus, go against the church and their shovinistic (sp?) attitudes, question the churches authority and thus become Jesus, the son of god, thereby God yourself and the church are just the fucking middle men.....God, the church, Jesus..........the church and religion are the middlemen, the very people who Maynard says he hates. It's all there.

Excuse me for intervening here, but I'd like to speak my mind on this subject.

It is true that religion often inspires atrocity. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Holocaust all come to mind. However, secularist states are not without their own bloody legacy. Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge, for example, was a secularist state, responsible for an estimated 250,000-plus executions (some estimates go way higher). The People's Republic of China, with Mao Zedong's leadership, disdained religion. Under Kim Il Jong, North Korea is a heavily atheist state, so much so that other religions (especially Protestantism) are completely surpressed. And I'm sure, if you're up to date with your world knowledge, that you know present-day North Korea is responsible for some pretty horrid human rights offenses. Even Saddam, despite governing a vastly religious nation, was a secularist leader, and it was in the name of his regime that Halabja was gassed in 1988.

Secondly, I don't believe Maynard is by any means saying he hates people of faith, or religion itself. He doesn't seem to be a Christian, but I think, rather than being anti-religious, he's respectfully and rationally disagreeing. He's just criticizing the people who use religion for their own personal interests, without exhibiting any real faith or willingness to make sacrifices. The whole song, to me, sounds as if he is commending his late mother, because through all the trials of being paralyzed, she actually believed in her faith, for unselfish reasons. Even if he doesn't see eye to eye with her personal beliefs, as he says in the song, I think Maynard truly admires her for being uncorrupted and pure in her faith, rather than a hypocritical false believer with an agenda.

[Garguantua]

Actually, I found the original post to be...well...original and amusing.

Making sense or not, it works for him. That's all that matters. I have odd thoughts and ideas about many Tool songs, this one is as good as any. Something he fantasizes and wonders about during the song. Can't fault him for that. At least he doesn't just sit there and read the lyrics and see Maynards Mom in a coffin and a funeral home.

I kinda like his idea. Right or wrong. It's unique and made me think of things I hadn't.

[NawnimNonNomen]

I don't know if this has been discussed but people are pretty set on the song being all about MJK's mother Judith and I know it isn't. I thought the same thing the first time I heard this song with all that I knew about Tool but I introduced a person to Tool who heard something completly different and now I hear it too.

In my mind the idea most people have of this song is NOTHING Tool would ever do or say in this manner.


The song is a direct map of what is going to happen.

(Some things to keep in mind)
You do not go home you return home.
You do not get Wings when you die only angels have them.
What happens when the job of Satan is done?


I can't deal with this whole post all at the same time. Suffice it to say, I don't think MJK has joined the Nostradamus/Rapture folks to predict what is to come.

For now, I'll just focus on your three points to keep in mind:
1) "You do not go home you return home." Um, no, "go home" is a relatively common grammatical choice. Cartman: "Screw you guys. I'm going home." Tracey Ullman: "Go home! Go home!" True, we can grammatically form the sentence "You're returning home"; however, that doesn't exclude the grammatical construction "You're going home."

As far as such a point would concern Satan vs. Judith Marie, however, the sentence "You're returning home" would make more sense for Satan than for Judith. Satan was cast out; therefore, he can return. Judith Marie would be going to a home she's always imagined, but one to which she has never been.

2) "You do not get Wings when you die only angels have them." The "wings" imagery is probably drawn from Isaiah Chapter 40:31--"But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; they shall walk, and not faint." Many Christians claim this "promise" as a part of the covenant and a part of the afterlife; the verse gets printed up on inspirational tchotchkes and plaques, just as the "Foot-prints" poem does. There are also a number of passages that place the resurrected equal to angels: Luke 20:36"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection"; Mark 12:25? ""For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." So the assumption/expectation of "getting wings" seems fair.

Still, it's worth noting that not all angels are described as winged in scriptures: Only Cherubim (Exodus 25:20; Ezekiel 10) and Seraphim (Isaiah 6) are specifically given wings, and of course the Ark includes sculptures of Cherubim with wings. "Angel" though are considered the lowest order of angels, so there's some argument over whether the resurrected are equal to all the orders of angels or just the lowest.

3) "What happens when the job of Satan is done?" Well, from a Biblical standpoint, that's an easy question. Read Revelation 20 . . . In short, "And the devil that deceived them was CAST INTO the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." That's also the point in time when souls are judged.

Your idea is maybe a good one: if nothing else, you're looking for layers, which is always cool. But there's a lot of homework left to do.

[exiledvoid]

This cannot die. There is plenty more to do. I would be so ignorant to let this go and I have seemed to be that way for almost a year now. MJK is spiritual and religious. He is a man of Duality. Not to mention this song is so cryptic. I can't wait to hear it live.

I am under the impression Zion is hell... Is this a mistake?

[volfan911]

Excuse me for intervening here, but I'd like to speak my mind on this subject.

It is true that religion often inspires atrocity. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Holocaust all come to mind. However, secularist states are not without their own bloody legacy. Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge, for example, was a secularist state, responsible for an estimated 250,000-plus executions (some estimates go way higher). The People's Republic of China, with Mao Zedong's leadership, disdained religion. Under Kim Il Jong, North Korea is a heavily atheist state, so much so that other religions (especially Protestantism) are completely surpressed. And I'm sure, if you're up to date with your world knowledge, that you know present-day North Korea is responsible for some pretty horrid human rights offenses. Even Saddam, despite governing a vastly religious nation, was a secularist leader, and it was in the name of his regime that Halabja was gassed in 1988.

Secondly, I don't believe Maynard is by any means saying he hates people of faith, or religion itself. He doesn't seem to be a Christian, but I think, rather than being anti-religious, he's respectfully and rationally disagreeing. He's just criticizing the people who use religion for their own personal interests, without exhibiting any real faith or willingness to make sacrifices. The whole song, to me, sounds as if he is commending his late mother, because through all the trials of being paralyzed, she actually believed in her faith, for unselfish reasons. Even if he doesn't see eye to eye with her personal beliefs, as he says in the song, I think Maynard truly admires her for being uncorrupted and pure in her faith, rather than a hypocritical false believer with an agenda.


Not taking an issue necessarily with any of your points (didn't read your post entirely, sorry) - but the Holocaust was not inspired by religion unless you consider the religion of the victims to be the inspiration for the Nazis. Either way, religion itself wasn't responsible for the Holocaust. Of course, given the fact that many deny the Holocaust and the liklihood someone on here is such a person, I'm sure my assumption that the Holocaust even happened will be discredited ;)

As for others' commentary on the evils of religion, I think any rational person should consider the flaw in lumping all religious attrocities, past and present, together as being necessarily characteristic of religion in general. Religion does a lot of good. Religion does a lot of bad. There's nothing wrong with pointing out the bad side of religion, but people should avoid a generic damning of all things religious and focus their criticism on the factions/issues that deserve it. "Religion is the opiate of the masses" is a compelling quote and often rings true - but I have to wonder what gets accomplished by accepting such great quotes or ideas as truly descriptive of religion as it applies to people's everyday lives around the world. I've known too many good people from all walks of life and all different beliefs to feel comfortable assuming that religion is an inherent evil. Again, I'm not necessarily speaking to you, with this paragraph - just observations/opinions in general after reading several posts in this thread.

[Mehhico]

I like this idea, mate. Very interesting indeed, so I will think about it and get back.

I am a little disappointed in all of the people here completely rejecting this concept.....10 years ago Tool fans would come up with 20 meanings for a song, now we are happy with 1????

Odd.

Take care,
Andy

[author of bible]

to exilevoid,
good one man..
to others,
even if there is a widely accepted rendition of some song theres still no rule that prohibits an interpretation you,yourself could relate to..
peace..

[Esurient4Truth]

to exilevoid,
good one man..
to others,
even if there is a widely accepted rendition of some song theres still no rule that prohibits an interpretation you,yourself could relate to..
peace..

are you a monk?

[jevons]

Another layer to lyrics are clearly stating the flaws and bullshit of religion.....

"Ignorant fibbers in the congregation
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.
None of them can even hold a candle up to you.
Blinded by choices, hypocrites won't [seek / see]."

If these religous idiots can't even hold candle to you then how are they going to enlighten you with their religous beliefs, their dogma. How is religion for that matter going to enlighten you? They spew bullshit about sympathy, they don't even know what their talking about. They only want sympathy for themselves, greedy selfish religous fucks. And it's all true, what happens when you are in a very religous family and you announce you don't believe in the religion? You are banished (their way of keeping the shitty religion alive and shoving it down your throat.....sort of like converting other ethnics to christianity, only way to keep a bullshit religion alive...the mexicans suffered this bullshit), even your own family does not love you or feel sympathy for you (Been way to hogwashed, their way or no way). You are not enlightened by them, after all you are banished (Your better off, go read some books, study philosophy, kill all christians [or just blow up churches] and start a better new religion that is up to modern time beliefs [christianity is old, and the way people live now don't live like we did 1000 years ago].....fuck religion?) Then again, if you were not, then what comes of it? Your family spews bullshit of how god has sympathy for you? Sure, maybe god would have sympathy for because you may not be smart enough to leave the fucking stupid religion in the first place.

Fuck religion.


Pretty sure that's layer 1A there, mister clever pants.
aynard is upset with the ''ignorant sinners'' and their hackneyed attempts to provide closure.

I think the first person narrative in a story that's clearly a direct conversation to his mom and concerning her funeral makes this layer 1A, don't you?
I'd say the possible use of Judith as a personification for many others around the world who are in the same boat, and probably getting lost in the same fashion (as her) as opposed to finding home. (reflection, triad.)

So, ahem, you lose.

Hey, arený you the guy who came in here talking about how this used to be a different place? How it used to be for intelligent discussion and not just some chat room?
Can i have your autograph? Pleeeease?
''Fuck religion.'' Genius! It's the next twat du jour. All call Antonioni, Esurient, you bring out the Warhol silkscreens.
We got us a live one!

[jevons]

are you a monk?

No he's just an idiot.

[Esurient4Truth]

No he's just an idiot.

ouch...maybe a little too harsh.

[jevons]

Oh, he's been all pissy with the pm's lately, i'm sick of his little blurbs.

Harsh, yes.

False, no.

[author of bible]

when a deprived and retarded,nerd, kicked-off-from-the-society kind guy passes a remark that clearly reflects his sick mentality, what do you do?

Answer: Ignore

[author of bible]

what makes me say that?
of course, the conversation i had with him via pm's

[author of bible]

are you a monk?

no i aint..
just an attempt to be liberal about other people's thoughts
because i expect the same in return..

[I am me]

I don't know if this has been discussed but people are pretty set on the song being all about MJK's mother Judith and I know it isn't. I thought the same thing the first time I heard this song with all that I knew about Tool but I introduced a person to Tool who heard something completly different and now I hear it too.



There was a dvd released by APC where in the commentary he speaks of his mother and actually quotes some of the lyrics in the song. It was released well before 10k days... your wrong dude

[Cheesegreater]

Yeah, you are dude.

Tool's a band that is easy to attach a lot of meanings to their songs, but it's clearly about his mother.

[I am me]

This theroy isn't THAT stupid, and I'll tell you guys why:

This whole album is about duality, a concept pretty well embodied by the idea of the masculine versus the feminine. Even the very first song can be interpretted as a description of how Satan himself emanates from God (not to mention the song length is 6:66,) so why wouldn't it make sense to turn the whole idea ninety degrees and talk about duality in terms of Mary Magdelene (gnosticism) versus "The congregation" (the more patriarchal interpretations of Christianity) Wouldn't it make sense, then, for him to reference the other, related forms of duality that pervade the rest of the album, such as God and Lucifer? That doesn't necessarily mean that maynard is equating gnosticism to lucifer either; he's just evoking the cultural preconceptions that relate the two ideas.

Also, whether it was intentional or not, I think Justify denials' posts were at least thematically related to the subject at hand, and you all should cut him a break (I can't believe I just said that.)

He obviously put some thought and effort into it and thats fine but to really understand the duality in it you should read the following http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=71474

[cwalker]

I'm not going to claim to know what the song is all about. In fact I believe the best songs are interpreted in a variety of ways, which we have definitely seen in this forum. The writer of the song probably has very personal reasons for producing what we hear, but does not want anyone near the real truth behind the song. In fact I think it ruins it if we are told exactly what it's all about. The listener can then take his own personal journey.

That said, there is one little bit of information I haven't seen mentioned (perhaps it was but I am new here so forgive me if this is old), that Jesus' time on earth as a mortal man was approximately 10K days.

[Opiate Son]

Maynard does use the word fire in the song so i guess it HAS to be about Satan. Seriously, i think you are way off but definatly thinking, and that's never a bad thing.

[I am me]

I'm not going to claim to know what the song is all about. In fact I believe the best songs are interpreted in a variety of ways, which we have definitely seen in this forum. The writer of the song probably has very personal reasons for producing what we hear, but does not want anyone near the real truth behind the song. In fact I think it ruins it if we are told exactly what it's all about. The listener can then take his own personal journey.

That said, there is one little bit of information I haven't seen mentioned (perhaps it was but I am new here so forgive me if this is old), that Jesus' time on earth as a mortal man was approximately 10K days.

That is part of the duality of the song his mother was paralyzed early on due to an aneurism. She spent some 28 years in her chair. But being in the chair only strengthened her faith in god and the “ignorant siblings in the congregation” kept spewing sympathy to her face. I think he is trying to say that even though he doesn’t believe in god if any human should actually become an angel its her, their pillar of faith if you will.

[fretforyourfigure462]

Whi

First off, the whole 10K days reference, = ~27 years, the length of time his mom was paralyzed before passing away. Also, you're completely disregarding the whole first part of the song (Wings for MARIE), which is, in my opinion, clearly about his mom passing away.



CaseLogic is exactly right. Wings for Marie ties in with 10,000 days and both songs are about his mother passing away. I'm not quite sure I understood where you were going with your explaination on "this is a map of what's going to happen" You didn't really explain what else the song could be about, and frankly I don't see how it could be about anything else. Call me closed minded, but honestly..This song basically speaks for itself. Maynard has a lot of emotion we've never really seen before within these two songs. It's actually very interesting to see another side of him. That's why I really appreciated the 10,000 days album which came out nearly a year ago now.

[sicbanana]

its kinda funny: the first time i heard this song (and didnt get all what he was saying) i thought maynard was talking directly to me ( or the listener ). all the "you" meaning me... then, after i got into the album, i realised that it was his mother about who he was singing, thats a fact... but now, after some research, and really getting IN the album, i think he's singing to me ( or the listener ) because i think his mother is a metaphor, a symbol for everything, the infinite, god.

think about it ;)

[BTTOOLFAN]

Oh, how out of context you are. Do you even pay attention to anything? Ever?


Clues that the meaning of the piece you "know" is right is actually not:

-The piece of music is comprised of two sections, of which 10,000 Days is only one. The first one is called "Wings for Marie." Now Lucifer has had many names and pseudonyms over the years, but Marie is definitely not one of them. And no his mother is not a metaphor for Lucifer, because that would be terrible writing that wouldn't make sense.
-The attitude of this piece toward its subject is one of deep respect and admiration. If you had listened to the rest of the album you would know that all other references to Lucifer are not so flattering:
"The Devil and his had me down...but you changed that all for me, lifted me up turned me round" (Jambi)
...And how about the ending, where Legion (the demon Jesus casts out in the New Testament, who said it was one of many, i.e. legions of Hell, legions of Lucifer, etc.) is basically verbally bitch-slapped: "Silence, Legion! Save your poison! Silence, Legion! Stay out of my way!"

-Listen to the commentary for the Judith video on aMotion, in which he goes into more detail about the "ignorant fibbers in the congregation."

-Oh yeah, and, you know, common sense. It could not be more about his mother. It's certainly an entertaining theory, but anyone can interpret anything any way they want and make it sound halfway plausible. But there is absolutely nothing, I repeat, ABOLUTELY NOTHING in the form of textual evidence or statements from the artists themselves that would even remotely suggest something as absolutely ludicrous as your interpretation.



It's ok to have an opinion, but when you say things like "I know it isn't"...then it's just an open invitation for people to write back and comment on the sheer absurdity of what you just wrote.

Exactly, thank you for saving me from carpal tunnel!!!

[jvalentine]

While I'm not going to flame you because you clearly put some time and thought into this, I just don't see it man. The song is pretty clearly about his mom.

First off, the whole 10K days reference, = ~27 years, the length of time his mom was paralyzed before passing away. Also, you're completely disregarding the whole first part of the song (Wings for MARIE), which is, in my opinion, clearly about his mom passing away.

Also, the song is sung with so much emotion that it wouldn't even make sense to be about some song about Satan... speaking of which, I still don't think I fully grasped your theory, something about Satan rising up though.

Actually the more I read it, the more your theory makes no sense to me. Nice try, I suppose, but it's just so obviously about his mom that it's not funny.

I'm with you man...i'm pretty sure its about his mom

[Badfish]

lol @ this entire thread.... and I didnt even read it

[(self(other]

This theroy isn't THAT stupid, and I'll tell you guys why:

This whole album is about duality, a concept pretty well embodied by the idea of the masculine versus the feminine. Even the very first song can be interpretted as a description of how Satan himself emanates from God (not to mention the song length is 6:66,) so why wouldn't it make sense to turn the whole idea ninety degrees and talk about duality in terms of Mary Magdelene (gnosticism) versus "The congregation" (the more patriarchal interpretations of Christianity) Wouldn't it make sense, then, for him to reference the other, related forms of duality that pervade the rest of the album, such as God and Lucifer? That doesn't necessarily mean that maynard is equating gnosticism to lucifer either; he's just evoking the cultural preconceptions that relate the two ideas.


Nice post.

I don't think it is too far off, or too difficult, to imagine that Maynard could conceptualize the whole thing. To start with a singularity, something he wants to get out there (predicting the end of times, Satan, whatever), and build around that as the sounds of his bandmates influence additional "sub-plots" that seem like their own entities.

Can anyone figure Tool to make an album and blatenly refer to it as a concept album? I really can't.. it would give too much away.

The lyrics are less cryptic on this album, but maybe only in the conventional way. Look at the shift in dynamics from Ænima to Lateralus; I believe Ænima is a collection of seperate efforts and experiences for the cleansing at hand, while Lateralus is a whole that starts at one point (-) of some spectrum and progresses to the other side (+) of the spectrum. Imagine the next leap that could have been taken... I think it could be big, and don't really know how to express it.

Imagine what your impression of the song would have been if all the binging of info on here about the band was purged from you.

[nootherway]

Wow. Yeah, see this song live. Oh, and go ahead and yell during the song, so that when Maynard hears this he will say, like he did in SD, "a song about peoples dead mothers makes me want to drink beer and holler." This song is about his mother. Topic over

[benjamin]

That's funny because I had a very similar experience.

That's funny because I had a very similar experience too also as well.

Also, I was about 10,000 days old. I felt that clearly, Maynard was asking for his wings.

Now, I'm here to tell ya the whole song is what Judith said to Maynard;

MJK: I really don't know what to say to all these gouls tonight.

JMG: Listen, boast, and listen some more. Joke with them, entertain their notions(feigning all the...). Unlike my fellow churchgoers, you inspired me, and gave me something nothing else could. Now I feel as if we can work together. Now, Should you see your makers face tonight. Look him in the eye... tell him... halelujah... Who are you to wave your finger you must have been out your head!
"Ah, to loud. To loud!"
"Sory!"

[junkie]

While I'm not going to flame you because you clearly put some time and thought into this

fuck it i am. apparently this song is about me an exiledvoid's mum.

[10 000 Days = 1 + 1]

Hello,

My opinion about this song is that it affects me on a very personal level.

You see, the entire puropose of Tool is to act as a mouthpiece for May Nerd James to speak to the one man who is meant, through music, to communicate to the human race the methods for us to survive beyond the test on December 21, 2012. This man may very well be related to the original Jesus seeing as how often he speaks about him in song. This man has not shown himself yet because his powers have been smothered by an unrequited love for his biological mother, Judith. Because Judith is the man's mother, and he is the one to lead us to "Zion" she also gets the name "Marie" like Mary, mother of Jesus. Now, this man, can not even begin to start to metamorphose into himself until Judith Marie gets her wings, ie. dies. When this occurs, the "hero" will lead us to "Zion" the place where positive music will fill the air and the collective spirit will overpower the combined hate and negativity of the black army led by evil men bent on destruction. 10 000 days is approximately the age of this man when his mother is set to pass aways (god willing).
(This explanation may seen quite abstract. It is simply my interpretation :)

[sylph]

Hello,

My opinion about this song is that it affects me on a very personal level.

You see, the entire puropose of Tool is to act as a mouthpiece for May Nerd James to speak to the one man who is meant, through music, to communicate to the human race the methods for us to survive beyond the test on December 21, 2012. This man may very well be related to the original Jesus seeing as how often he speaks about him in song. This man has not shown himself yet because his powers have been smothered by an unrequited love for his biological mother, Judith. Because Judith is the man's mother, and he is the one to lead us to "Zion" she also gets the name "Marie" like Mary, mother of Jesus. Now, this man, can not even begin to start to metamorphose into himself until Judith Marie gets her wings, ie. dies. When this occurs, the "hero" will lead us to "Zion" the place where positive music will fill the air and the collective spirit will overpower the combined hate and negativity of the black army led by evil men bent on destruction. 10 000 days is approximately the age of this man when his mother is set to pass aways (god willing).
(This explanation may seen quite abstract. It is simply my interpretation :)


LMFAO
especially at

10 000 days is approximately the age of this man when his mother is set to pass aways (god willing).

We've been ripped off everyone!
That fucker is sooo late!!!

[Esurient4Truth]

10 000 days is approximately the age of this man when his mother is set to pass aways (god willing).

Didn't Maynard write this song after his mother died? God people, the wings "series" is a tribute to his mother. Maynard's mother was Christian, thus the religious references.

[god_himself]

To everyone say that "this guys right, this guys wrong".... STOP IT!! Its about what the song means to each individual person. Maynard may have wrote these songs about his mother, he may not have. It doesn't matter what HE ment it by. It matters what YOU get from it. No one's right or wrong. Its all up to each person's interpretation of the song. I think that Maynard would like us all to think for our selves. Make up our own mind about what it means. So lets just love one another cause we're only here for a short while.