MJ - JM | Masculine/Feminine Alchemy and Art

[eleven_waiting]

First I would like build the foundation for my statment as well as issue a disclaimer.

What I'm about to outline is something that makes sense to me for what I know and is not to repsesnt what I feel is the finite meaning. It just so happens that my interpretation fits into what I'm about to mention.

Alchemy.

We've heard reference to this in the past, and we know what it is. However, I would like to add this interesting theory. Alchemy is the watching and study of chemical reactions so that the observer may learn something about how to change themselves.

It has also been presented to me that the Feminine is superior to the Masculine in the way that they are predisposed to communication with God. Now that I've mentioned the idea of God, please try to refrain from assuming that I'm speaking of the common misconception championed by the Christian/Judea community.

Female are natural receptors where males are not. It's in the formula of our procreation. It is thought that this receptive nature extends all the way down to the soul and this is how women are naturaly able to communicate with God. it is said that when a man and woman have sex it allows them to become a whole being and when this being is balance or in love; they will recieve freely from the divine - but only during this act of sex. This is also why early REALLY early civilizations championed prostitution, it was a way for men to commune with God.

Alchemists who strive to complete the 'great work' are actualy trying to transmutate their masculine souls into a feminine soul so that they may receive freely without the aid of sexual intercourse.

The theory of the 'Mona Lisa' is that Da Vinci had achived his great work and the woman in the picture is an oil and cavase picture of his new feminie soul.

The assumption that Judith Marie is Maynards mother is widely accepted as solid ground for further interpretation. However, humor me with this idea.

Judith Marie is the name of Maynards feminine soul. Here is something that helps point to that.

(J)udith (M)arie
(M)aynard (J)ames

JM
-------The reversal of initials.
MJ

The reversal to me signifies that the two are opposite to one another. Male - Female. He swaped the initials of his first and middle name and gave each one a fem title and leaving the last name alone. Signifying that they are either related or in my thought...the same person.

"10,000 Days in the fire is long enough, you're going home" This line is refereing to the tempering of the reaction and the purification it brings. Once this side was created it needed a cleansing of fire to forge it into the prefection it was to be.

I read somewhere on here that Maynard sees APC as his feminine band and tool is his masculie. This is what leads me to associate this with the theory of Alchemy being about transmutating ones soul into a vessel of reception

If he was going to do this why would he choose the name of his mother to represent his fem side?

That is simple. He respected his mother, and maybe in many ways she helped nurture him in life in ways that helped him create and embrace this part of his soul. She is what he veiws as a respectable and divine being, why not honor her in such a way. Give that title to the part of his soul that will communicate with God and further nurture the masciline side, much like his mother did.

I do support the idea that this song along with "WFM" is a tribute to his mother, but I also feel that somewhere in the background only for the people who can see and himself, Maynard is also praising his feminine side.

Thank you, I look forward to the feedback to come. Especially the people who just "KNOW" I'm wrong because they read this or that...you guys are funny! Just because my theory contradicts what you think, don't make me wrong.

I may be wrong, but you're not right.

[STA]

Interesting theory, eleven; Maynard's relationship with the feminine has always been what has fascinated me most about him. I would take your idea a step further and say that Maynard was "praising his feminine side" as far back as Aenima. Let me give your post some more thought and respond in more detail tomorrow.

[prater]

I agree to an extent, I do not feel it is a praise of his feminine side, more so a praise of his mother within his own personality, it just so happens that the one who that side of MJK reflects is feminine. I think the fact that it is feminine is second to the fact that it is his mother. Take the songs Jimmy+JUDITH(APC)+WFM/10,000days= one story, the story of his relationship with his mother from the time she became paralyzed to the time she died. Jimmy is a reflection of how her disability affected him, Judith is his feelings of anger for her situation and the fact that she still praises the one she believes did that to her, and WFM 10,000 days is his feelings after her death, showing his respect and appreciation as well as giving her credit for the side of him that reflects her. Of course thats just in a nutshell.

[AMF]

Cool coincidence ;)

[john]

isn't his real name James Maynard?

[EdwardJamesKeenan]

no his real name is James Herbert Keenan, maynard was juat a name that he adopted. I kinda like this theory but i think way to many people read the Da VInci code. HAHA, i admit i am currently reading it for the first time after much resistance, but i decided to give it a shot.
The mona lisa by the way is also rumoured to be a painting of davinci in drag, which makes me chuckle. But the mona lisa is neither masculine or feminine and can actaully be viewed as both, look at it from the left and its more feminine from the right more masculine.

[vinegar_tom]

I like the alchemy ideas. I don't so much agree on the JM-MJ significance. But, the joining of the opposites to achieve the divine does spark my fancy. I like Jung's analysis of the imagrey in the Rosarium. Good stuff.

[trey5winds]

To eleven_waiting:

I feel that your idea has resonance. From where I'm sitting it doesn't feel completely "fit", but I think it leads onto the right track. It may be the alchemical aspect that's throwing me; I'm not as familiar with the subject as I should be for a complete discussion, but I'm familiar enough with it to see your basic premise. I'm a bit murky on some of the details, though.

The idea at its base, however, has resonance that extends beyond just this - to MY way of thinking. I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone else here, but what you've written, as well as much of the responding commentary, gives me the feeling of "resonance" for this.

Any song is written for more than one purpose. With so many conflicting elements pulling at us, it's amazing that any music whatsoever (regardless of how good it actually is) gets written, recorded and performed. But I think you're onto something - perhaps like the alchemical process outlines, your thoughts - or our thoughts, mine included - need refining before touching on anything bigger.

Many spiritual processes are similar, too, to the art of musical composition - one has to find the shape and form of the objective before addressing it as a tangible entity. One of the reasons I've always enjoyed Tool was because most of the music DOES NOT feel arbitrary; it may come off that way on the recording or the performance, but the structure and composition of it, the WHY of it, feels well-thought out - and well-thought out by more than just the band members themselves. I hear where Music is given mostly free reign (as much as the four musicians in question can allow) and the musicians are employed as support for the reality of these structures. Your idea, and the commentary of a few others here, somewhat follows that mental space - at least, from where I'm sitting.

Thank you for writing this. I'm going to give this idea some lookover and see if I can find anything worth noting or writing about.

Respectfully,
trey5winds

[eleven_waiting]

trey5winds

Thanks for the comments, very indepth...this is what I expect from a tool fan. Good indepth discussion without agression an arrogance.

[EdwardJamesKeenan]

Thank you for writing this. I'm going to give this idea some lookover and see if I can find anything worth noting or writing about.

Respectfully,
trey5winds


Respectfully? i cant see the respect in that last part. you're gonna see if there is "anything worth noting or writing about"? how very good of you.
The post is totally worth noting, i think its a good insight, maybe i dont agree totally, but thats what happens when people have opinions and offer their own ideas.

[trey5winds]

Respectfully? i cant see the respect in that last part. you're gonna see if there is "anything worth noting or writing about"? how very good of you.

My thanks and apologies to you, EdwardJamesKeenan, for reminding me of the need for clarity in writing.

I really should have clarified the above statement by writing: "anything worth noting or writing about that I can come up with from/regarding this perspective."

It wasn't my intention to give offense to anyone - I'm simply stating that I don't know if I myself can take these thoughts, process them through my own experiences, knowledge and perspectives, and see if I can add anything useful or valid to the idea/discussion eleven_waiting offered up.

I should probably have also mentioned that I was in something of a rush when I wrote this post.

The post is totally worth noting, i think its a good insight, maybe i dont agree totally, but thats what happens when people have opinions and offer their own ideas.

And here, we agree. Though I still can't find any other "new thoughts" from my own end on this topic. Perhaps more thinking and/or moving on. I'm going to give this one some time to seep in further.

This subject came up when my lady and I compared notes on the song over the weekend. Her own overall opinon of the song was that it was the best hymnal she'd heard in years; her only regret was that no mainstream church anywhere in North America would add it to their hymnbooks.

And that, to me, is another intriguing thought. Choirs the continent over probably wouldn't add it to their hymnbooks for a variety of reasons - but what if they could? That could give a whole new spin on musical religious services the world over. It's not a new idea (Duke Ellington wrote and peformed three sacred concerts in churches all over the world in the late '60s and early '70s), but it would be wonderful to try out in this day and age where music is one of the few places we have left available for us to see God.

Oh well, just another thought.

Best wishes (and respect) to all,
trey5winds

[EdwardJamesKeenan]

My thanks and apologies to you, EdwardJamesKeenan, for reminding me of the need for clarity in writing.

I really should have clarified the above statement by writing: "anything worth noting or writing about that I can come up with from/regarding this perspective."

It wasn't my intention to give offense to anyone - I'm simply stating that I don't know if I myself can take these thoughts, process them through my own experiences, knowledge and perspectives, and see if I can add anything useful or valid to the idea/discussion eleven_waiting offered up.

I should probably have also mentioned that I was in something of a rush when I wrote this post.



And here, we agree. Though I still can't find any other "new thoughts" from my own end on this topic. Perhaps more thinking and/or moving on. I'm going to give this one some time to seep in further.

This subject came up when my lady and I compared notes on the song over the weekend. Her own overall opinon of the song was that it was the best hymnal she'd heard in years; her only regret was that no mainstream church anywhere in North America would add it to their hymnbooks.

And that, to me, is another intriguing thought. Choirs the continent over probably wouldn't add it to their hymnbooks for a variety of reasons - but what if they could? That could give a whole new spin on musical religious services the world over. It's not a new idea (Duke Ellington wrote and peformed three sacred concerts in churches all over the world in the late '60s and early '70s), but it would be wonderful to try out in this day and age where music is one of the few places we have left available for us to see God.

Oh well, just another thought.

Best wishes (and respect) to all,
trey5winds

I'm sorry i read my psot again and i cam across as an ass, i know what u were saying and thanks for taking the time to actaully clear that up and not posting back calling me a reatard or whatever. I was just sick of people posting on this board full of self importnace and arogance, it was just the straw that broke this camels back.

[trey5winds]

I'm sorry i read my psot again and i cam across as an ass, i know what u were saying and thanks for taking the time to actaully clear that up and not posting back calling me a reatard or whatever. I was just sick of people posting on this board full of self importnace and arogance, it was just the straw that broke this camels back.


Actually, you weren't being an ass, and I really meant it when I wrote to thank you. Like you, I've seen many posts where the...quality...of the dialogue on offer is perhaps, well, lower than we'd like to receive. But I'm quite okay with what you wrote and why, honestly.

I can converse pretty normally, but can somewhat come across as a stuffy academic when I put digits to keyboard. So, your self-importance and arrogance scans on me aren't really that off; I'm just attempting to better balance them out now.

Incidentally, on the ideas that started this thread...I can't really think of anything else from my end. My brain feels like mush, especially considering that I'm about to start school again. So as far as the topic itself, I'm on the verge of giving up.

Almost.

Thanks for taking the time to read my reply.

Cheers to you,
trey5winds