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Bukkhead
05-24-2006, 03:20 PM
(originally this was a reply to another thread, but that thread got closed)

When I first heard this song, without benefit of seeing the lyrics written down, I thought he said "I hold deep in muddy water." I seriously thought it was John the Baptist yelling at Jesus. Guess I listend to "Judith" too much. Then I saw the lyrics and it made sense.

So, why eye-hole? Why not stay with eye-ball? Where did the eye-ball go? Why is he now just an eye-less socket? Did the eyes get plucked out? Is this an allusion to Oedipus, who stabbed his own eyes out when he realized he'd killed his own father and married his own mother? Maybe the subject of the song is Oedipus, who killed the Sphinx, practically raising the plagued city from the dead.

Or is it a reference to Matthew 18:9 "If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out." The idea is if you don't like what you see, stop looking at it.

But why muddy water? In Undertow, water was a metaphor for religious dogma. Muddy water would be "unclear" dogma, and one who'd plucked out one's own eyes in an act of (false) humility (crying "chosen" shades of royal indigo) would be, of course, up to their eye sockets in unclear dogma. Wallowing in it, like a pig in mud, baptised by their own self-righteousness, and therefor necessarilly hypocritical.

Sorry about typos. Just some opinions.

JE

smeefsmeef
05-24-2006, 04:44 PM
I think (possibly) muddy water might refer to oil. Our government seems to be a little more that eyeball deep in its value. Eyehole deep would make sense as it would make one deeper in muddy water than just "eyeball"... if that makes any sense.

davelisowski
05-25-2006, 08:08 AM
I'll agree that "eyehole" conjures up different imagery (a missing eyeball) than "eyeball." As for it's significance, I'm not sure. Both would mean the same level of depth in the water.

Maybe it's a reference to the fact that this person isn't using his eyes - so they are worthless.
eyehole deep in muddy waters... (later) fucking hypocrite
This person does not see/chooses to ignore the fact that what is happening in his life is completely against what he stands for.

drange
05-26-2006, 04:59 AM
Does anyone believe that they use the phrase Muddy Waters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muddy_Waters) for more than one reason?

DeadMoney
05-26-2006, 05:31 AM
Did anyone else think he's just making another reference to a hypocrites...
"You up to your eyes in shit"... eyeholes deep in muddy water...

Muladhara
05-26-2006, 05:55 AM
Or is it a reference to Matthew 18:9 "If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out." The idea is if you don't like what you see, stop looking at it.


That's a fucking brilliant interpretation.

The song is about somebody accusing the singer of doing something bad which they themselves do.

Like in Hooker With A Penis where the guy wearing the labels and drinking Coke accuses Tool of 'selling out', when he himself has 'sold out'.

So yeah, "Hey, asshole, if you don't like what I'm doing, even though you do it and much worse yourself, then stop fucking looking at me!"

swampyfool
05-26-2006, 06:31 AM
I'm totally diggin' on these variations on the same interpretation posted by Bukkhead, davelisowski, and Muladhara. Nice.

Maynard is a masterful storyteller, and his continued use of multiple allegory within the context of one song is just amazing. The line in discussion, "Eyehole deep in muddy water; you practically raised the dead," is one of these cosmically plural lyrics that are interlaced throughout this album (and throughout the body of work entire, but particularly so on this album.) The points made regarding "eyehole" v. eyeball in reference to the willfully blind, and "muddy water" in reference to contaminated idealogy; reamain perfectly valid in conjunction to an interpretation of the whole line that would indicate that this could be a criticism of Bush (of whom Maynard has spoken negatively, lately) and his handling of Katrina. It's wrinkles within wrinkles; it's the lyrical equivalent of psychedelic drugs; it's music that induces an intelectual euphoria in a world awash with some of the most uninspired garbage since Pat Boone. This shit rocks my world!

evilprimeval
05-26-2006, 10:41 AM
I'm totally diggin' on these variations on the same interpretation posted by Bukkhead, davelisowski, and Muladhara. Nice.

Maynard is a masterful storyteller, and his continued use of multiple allegory within the context of one song is just amazing. The line in discussion, "Eyehole deep in muddy water; you practically raised the dead," is one of these cosmically plural lyrics that are interlaced throughout this album (and throughout the body of work entire, but particularly so on this album.) The points made regarding "eyehole" v. eyeball in reference to the willfully blind, and "muddy water" in reference to contaminated idealogy; reamain perfectly valid in conjunction to an interpretation of the whole line that would indicate that this could be a criticism of Bush (of whom Maynard has spoken negatively, lately) and his handling of Katrina. It's wrinkles within wrinkles; it's the lyrical equivalent of psychedelic drugs; it's music that induces an intelectual euphoria in a world awash with some of the most uninspired garbage since Pat Boone. This shit rocks my world!
Thanks, that made me feel good.

evilprimeval
05-26-2006, 10:44 AM
Does anyone believe that they use the phrase Muddy Waters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muddy_Waters) for more than one reason?
I had wondered about this but nothing really stood out for me.
Maybe a reference to the blues?
Hard to just let something like this go as a coincidence...
although maybe that's all it is.

Choice Breath
05-26-2006, 10:53 AM
Does anyone believe that they use the phrase Muddy Waters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muddy_Waters) for more than one reason?

Good thought. This fits especially with Muddy Waters being from MS and what with Katrina and all. There's also a club in New Orleans called Muddy Waters, or at least there used to be. I wouldn't be surprised if it were an intentional double entendre by Maynard.

jlpeezworld
05-26-2006, 11:07 AM
Ganja Police?

I'm thinking it's Ganja Puhleeese (Please). In other words...Ganja made you act like that? Please...You must have been out your mind! It's showing that in order for someone to be such a hypocrite, they must be on something way more mind-altering than ganja. Proving they're no better than the ones they judge, and may in fact, be worse. opinions?

][ncognito
05-29-2006, 10:12 PM
With the eyehole/eyeballs it jus reminds me a bit of Stinkfist where Maynard varies with inside/within the borderline.

Also in this, rather than an empty socket, eyehole more brought the image of the pupil instead. The pupil is where the light enters, and saying eyehole just brought the image of that to me rather than an empty socket.

Luosdasa
05-30-2006, 12:45 AM
my first thought was it was just a bit of imagery overkill.
You can't see properly because you're in muddy water, which is messing with your vision...

and you have no eyes.

heh :P

jim39n
05-30-2006, 04:00 PM
Ganja Police?

I'm thinking it's Ganja Puhleeese (Please). In other words...Ganja made you act like that? Please...You must have been out your mind! It's showing that in order for someone to be such a hypocrite, they must be on something way more mind-altering than ganja. Proving they're no better than the ones they judge, and may in fact, be worse. opinions?

wow...i've seen this posted in three threads so far

express your opinion...but don't emblazen it everywhere