the Illumi 'Naughty'

[the darknight]

Has anyone else made the illuminati connection? Im sure im not the only person, but in case I am here is what i noticed.

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dont know who the illuminati are? heres some short documtaries for ya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7DkSnhKkSk&search=illuminati

despite this dood being ghetto fablous he does a good job on this documentary

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7665036712820670830&q=illuminati+symbols

this one is short but has some good stuff in it, and the song owns as well

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8768114400602619096&q=masons

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- first off if this album is really broken down in to two parts (ie wings 1 & 2, the pot and lipan conjuring, lost keys & rosetta stoned, intension & right in TWO) that would me jambi is the second part to vicarious...

- well if people are glued to the tv and the events going on in the idiot box, then i dont think an illuminati reference is to far out there.
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[Here from / If in] the king's mountain view
[Here from / If in] the wild dream come true
Feast like a sultan, I do
On treasures and flesh never few

- sounds like someone important, maybe in the illuminati or maybe bush or maybe the american people?

But I would wish it all, away
If I thought I'd lose you just one day

- I dont know if your familure with the Bohemian grove but members of the illuminati, who are said to have the wait of the world on their shoulders, attend and make a sacrifice in front of an owl as a part of a pagan ritual. This was done to rid themselves of the pressures the world...

The devil and his had me down
In love with the dark side I've found
Dabblin' all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown.

- The illuminati are said to quote luciferian doctrines

But you changed that all for me
Lifted me up, turned me round
So I, I would wish this all away

- Still sounds like a Bohemian grove reference

Pray like a [martyr / father] [does / dusk] to dawn
Beg like a hooker all night long
Shout to the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along

- praying fits the bohemian grove and freemason / illuminati idea

fast forward to the damn my eyes / jambi eye / jambi eyes / what ever you think he says
- the illuminati has an eye as one of their symbols

Shine on forever
Shine on benevolent sun
Shine down upon the severed
Shine [on 'til / until] the two become one

- this eye is know as the "all seeing eye" and "all knowing eye" kinda like big brother... the sun is also used as a symbol for the all seeing eye. look on a dollar bill, the eye on the back is radiant.

Shine down upon the many, light our way,
Benevolent sun.

- sounds like idiot america wanting and believing in an infallible government to me

So, as one, survive
Another day and season

[Silent legions / Silently, just] save your poison
[Silent legions / Silently, just] stay out of my way

- if he is saying silent legions than that totally fits into the illumanati...

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i dont know ... not fool proof at all but there seems to be some connection.

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heres another wierd connection for ya... Alex Jones is a conspiracy theoriest who, a few years ago, broke into bohemian grove and video taped it. hes a crazy nut job and i dont belive the US is as messed up as he says it is, but i guess he was friends of the fallen hero - bill hicks. http://www.nndb.com/people/969/000048825/

here is some alex jones moives
(im warning ya hes a wack job haha)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1557513752286923372&q=Bohemian+Grove

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...+Bohemian+Grove

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=25...=order+of+death

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maybe the song is about alex jones

or maybe its about bush

or maybe its about the american people and the idiot boxs hold on the US

or maybe i have gone insane

(i would have to say the last is most likely true) but either way its fun looking up illuminati stuff and its still tons of fun listening the the lyrics and trying to figure out whats goin on

[blackandwhite]

You might be reaching kind of far into it but then again who knows, you made some good connections.

[the darknight]

more illuminati connections for ya...

23 is the number of the Illuminati
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_%28number%29#Occult_significance

"In many other of Wilson's works (especially The Illuminatus! Trilogy) 23 is given special importance."

[kidadavepushin]

What the fuck? Hail Eris.

[eleven_waiting]

For some, these connections aren't as far fetched...

I make these connections...I have since the first time I hear Vicarious...

I just know that mentioning this shit gets you fucked with...and taken anyway but seriously.

[the darknight]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/santboyz/IMGP2324.jpg

is it weird that alex grey signs his stuff with an illumanati symbol?

http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=51770

[thepatient_10k]

lol all this is, is the lyrics to jambi with points about the illuminati...

[tamer]

i think the message is more into the golden dawn and aleister crowley thoughts on the mind. so poo poo on u.
u can relate anything to the illuminati if u try hard enof.
enlighttinment dweebs

[ArizonaBay]

the only illuminati ish rferenece is the benevolent sun which is the point of illumination like on the dollar, but the song is more about the light of reason and universal ballnance that it represents and not specifically about illuminati control.

[lighterbandit]

i don't think even that's an illuminati reference. wrong album for that in my opinion. also, none of the 'connections' you made make the smallest bit of sense.

[MORNING_GLORY]

I think you're on the right track with this one. The Freemasons were believed to worship the sun because of their luciferian symbols (lucifer means "light-bearer"). Masons believe in a divine creator (architect), but not neccessarily the Christ or Buddha or Mohammed. Their slogan went something like "recognize only the light and not the bearer", as in don't focus on the person, but rather what they are saying, which is similar to what Tool is about when it comes to their fame.
But anyways, "This emphasis on 'the light and not the bearer' has been seized on by anti-Masons to claim that Freemasonry worships the sun." - Secrets of the Freemasons

The song mentions the devil once or twice, so this metaphor would be fitting.
To me, the majority of the song is about experiences similar to those of Freemasonry; it's about remorse, praise, and someplace inbetween.

Bits and pieces to support this idea:

"Here from the king's mountain view"

-could be referring to the "all seeing eye" on top of the pyramid, (on the back of the $1 bill) since the pyramids are known as king's burial chamber, and it's similar to a mountain, size-wise, and he mentions the "view".

"The devil and his had me down
In love with the dark side I've found
Dabblin' all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown"

-Fairly self-explanitory. He got into the whole illumination/Mason thing, loved it, but let it take him over. (Unless the song is about Pee-Wee Herman's Jambi, where he has only a head, "up to my neck sure to drown")

"But you changed that all for me
Lifted me up, turned me round

So I, I would wish this all away"

-And of course, someone came in and made him think differently, and thus regretting the loss of his real focus.

"Pray like a martyr dusk to dawn
Beg like a hooker all night long
Shout to the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along"

-Masons and their rituals are very similar to reglion, they say prayers/mantras, they ask for things they wish to achieve or gain, and usually get them.

"Damn my eyes!

Damn my eyes!
If they should compromise
A fulcrum
Watching me divide me
Then I might as well be gone..."

-Damn his eyes (his insight gained from being a Mason) if they could possibly cost him to lose whoever/whatever is drawing his attention away, because that person place or thing is his fulcrum, the thing that keeps him 'down to earth'.

-Thus, he has a dilemma. He's in a Jam because of these two things. Bi = 2 or eyes. He has to choose.

"Shine on forever
Shine on benevolent sun
Shine down upon the broken
Shine until the two become one"

-Now this part could be tricky. I see it two ways. If the song is really about his sOn (like several people have mentioned), then this would be where he chooses his son over his desire for insight/being a Mason. Then again, it could be him choosing his insight over whatever made him think twice in the first place.

"Breathe in union

So, as one, survive
Another day and season
[Silent legions / Silently, just] save your poison
[Silent legions / Silently, just] stay out of my way"

-Once again, could go either way. He could be saying fuck off to his old ambitions(/Masons, hence "Silent legions") or to the newcomer to persueding him otherwise.
Personally, from the tone of the song, I think he's straying from the old desires of becoming divine or illuminated or whatever you choose to call it, and bringing his focus back down to earth, to his family or whatever it is important enough to write a song about.
Well, I had fun writing this novella, I hope it makes sense, I typed out some ideas as they popped in my head.


PS: Looking back on the song, you could strip the Masonic theme and just use the basic symbols involved to get an interpretation. I've been reading a book about Masons and it made some sense, especially when you reference it to some of the artwork, seeing as the eye/triangle symbol on Alex Grey's website fits the description.

[Yondo]

...Is Maynard a Mason?
(Of course, we'll never know.)

Anyway, Morning Glory made more valid points than Darknight... but it still seems like the Taoism reference works better.

Besides, isn't is Benevolent SON? Damn homophones.

[ArizonaBay]

^^ No, well of course we dont know.... (lol), but Tool like Hermetic stuff so the benevolent sun is likely to be that same illuminati/masonic symbol. Not as any reference to any kind of secret synarchic conspiracy cobblers, but of the symbols actual meaning of balance, as above, so below.

When it comes to symbology though everything is allegorical and it becomes possible to hallucinate meaning into anything, which is how conspiracy nutters are born. Once you learn some symbology stuff like alchemaical symbols and the like you find them everywhere from the statue of liberty to your high school chemistry lab, so best take it all with a HUGE pinch of salt.

On the subject of Lucifer however... he is known as the morning star, or micheal sun of the morning which was my first thought when i heard the song.

[lighterbandit]

interesting ideas but i respectfully disagree. none of tool's songs are about freemasons. just sit back for a minute and reflect on how incredibly stupid of an idea that would be.

[MORNING_GLORY]

actually, its not far-fetched at all. alot of symbols and lyrics from tool relate to the masons. hell, the name "tool" itself could be a direct reference to the masons.

[RidetheRedshift]

yep sign up with the 'devil' get whatever you want. Hell you might even one day get to play at coacHELLa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etYwtFb2Zyo&mode=related&search=

[DON IOTAE]

wow, creepy.

[ObiJohnKenobi]

dan brown will be writing the book shortly. it will be entitled:

Lost Fame - one so rare

a tale about a rag-tag group of men, who struggle against all odds, to make their "voice" heard only to be drown out by the buzzing of a million worker bees...

Plus, if you unscramble the title it spells out "madonna on the rocks"... no wait a minute, that's a different book all together.... no this one unscrambles to "Tool are Freemasons"....

[dancingflame]

isn`t it possible to make a connection to the illuminati out of everything?!

[Rod]

...Is Maynard a Mason?
(Of course, we'll never know.)

Anyway, Morning Glory made more valid points than Darknight... but it still seems like the Taoism reference works better.

Besides, isn't is Benevolent SON? Damn homophones.


Danny's a Mason ... anyone notice how he hits the high hat's after Maynard sings to him?

"Pray like a martyr dusk to dawn
Beg like a hooker all night long
Shout to the devil with my song ((tsh--tsh,tsh))
And got what I wanted all along"

The black AMEX card story about Danny saying "I'm the Devil"

Blair refers to him as Fraeter "something or other", it's not IJYNX, I can't recall off hand though ... IJYNX that's Blair's title I believe but I'm pretty sure that this is a Freemason refference.

[RidetheRedshift]

"Tool are Freemasons"....


Same as the pres, same as Alex Grey, same as Aleister. Same as all in power. Do you think? Maybe? hmmmm

[ObiJohnKenobi]

Same as the pres, same as Alex Grey, same as Aleister. Same as all in power. Do you think? Maybe? hmmmm


no, but it makes for good t.v.


p.s. by quoting a post, the imagery of a tongue in one's cheek is not carried over and the critical bits are lost.

[RidetheRedshift]

no, but it makes for good t.v.


really? damn they aren't saying anything about that on my tv. Just things like boobies are bad and bush is good.

(there, I set you up for more sarcasm. or you could really burn me and play it straight. your move)

but alex does have the illuminati symbol for his site. it's okay to wonder right? Hell I even saw a thing on youtube with alex saying that he made a painting with the twin towers and airplanes heading toward them with a 'dick and pres. bush' right next to them, before it happened.

[mike09]

lol @ this thread

[RidetheRedshift]

lol @ this thread


lol at this world

[ObiJohnKenobi]

it's okay to wonder right?


it is!

truly and forever.

sometimes, i'm just a prick, is all.

[mike09]

lol at this world

lol @ gullible people and people that look too deep into things

[RidetheRedshift]

lol @ gullible people and people that look too deep into things


I hear what you are saying but I would hope you laugh harder at those that never look deep enough.

[ObiJohnKenobi]

just depends on what you mean by "enough"... there's "enough" and then there's "enough, already"...

do you think the catholics looked deeply enough into the Bible? or perhaps it was the greek orthodox?

i look deeply enough into my first cup of coffee for the day and i see john the baptist... should i be proud of that accomplishment or check myself in to the nearest psych ward?

[DON IOTAE]

^ ergo, "overthinking, overanalising separates the body from the mind"

[~mish]

This is almost as good as dream interpitation. You can flip it every way to Sunday and it will still be the same music we all love.

[RidetheRedshift]

just depends on what you mean by "enough"... there's "enough" and then there's "enough, already"...

do you think the catholics looked deeply enough into the Bible? or perhaps it was the greek orthodox?

i look deeply enough into my first cup of coffee for the day and i see john the baptist... should i be proud of that accomplishment or check myself in to the nearest psych ward?

Really?! Shit I thought I was the only one who saw John the Baptist in my first cup. I feel entirely not special now. Okay what do you see in green tea? Maybe I can still feel 'special'.

[mike09]

I hear what you are saying but I would hope you laugh harder at those that never look deep enough.

I agree with you, but let's be honest here. The chances of Tool making Jambi be about the Illuminati is pretty fucking slim. Songs can be interepreted in many, many ways, and I fully support looking deep into a song, but this is looking too deep and just reaching for something that isn't there. I heard an analysis of "Schism" where the person said the song was about Tetris. His argument worked and was hilarious, that doesn't mean Tool wrote the song about Tetris. It just came out that way. Though "I know the pieces fit..." makes you wonder... :p

[DON IOTAE]

^ *lol*

yeah, that is looking too deep. And deep as well... :P

[ObiJohnKenobi]

Really?! Shit I thought I was the only one who saw John the Baptist in my first cup. I feel entirely not special now. Okay what do you see in green tea? Maybe I can still feel 'special'.


you can always keep hoping.

[RidetheRedshift]

but let's be honest here. The chances of Tool making Jambi be about the Illuminati is pretty fucking slim.


well I wasn't really saying that he wrote it specifically about the illuminati. I was saying, for the sake of mindfuck, that alex grey, tool, pres. bush. Everyone in the spotlight is illuminati. but yeah I think illuminati was an obvious association that maynard played with during the writing of this song. but good songs are never really about just one thing. could have been about some stoner, birkenstock wearing hippie who likes to jam. and is ambi-dextrous. who cares? not I. there are no correct ideas in the end just words strung together to entertain.

I hate when people take shit too literally. I'll twist any idea you'd like into whatever I like. It's called imagination and I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone tell me what to think. 'Words keep me wrapped in repeating' the first lesson grasshopper learns. Imperfect devices not good for much besides frustrating yourself in that nothing this crude can explain a feeling.

[ObiJohnKenobi]

you crack me up...

[RidetheRedshift]

you crack me up...


unfortunately I'm already cracked so you're doing nothing for me.

[mike09]

well I wasn't really saying that he wrote it specifically about the illuminati. I was saying, for the sake of mindfuck, that alex grey, tool, pres. bush. Everyone in the spotlight is illuminati. but yeah I think illuminati was an obvious association that maynard played with during the writing of this song. but good songs are never really about just one thing. could have been about some stoner, birkenstock wearing hippie who likes to jam. and is ambi-dextrous. who cares? not I. there are no correct ideas in the end just words strung together to entertain.

I hate when people take shit too literally. I'll twist any idea you'd like into whatever I like. It's called imagination and I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone tell me what to think. 'Words keep me wrapped in repeating' the first lesson grasshopper learns. Imperfect devices not good for much besides frustrating yourself in that nothing this crude can explain a feeling.

And I think you're completely wrong, but I shall not interfere in this thread.

[RidetheRedshift]

And I think you're completely wrong, but I shall not interfere in this thread.


too late.

[RidetheRedshift]

more crazy conspiracy theorists. Unrelated to the song but not to the illuminati.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060806/ap_on_re_us/sept_11_conspiracies;_ylt=AgviU7aFxYmGCg2q3x7_2uhI 2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

[eulogist]

wow you named this thread perfectly

illumi NAUGHTY???

....classic


i bet dan brown would like to hear some of this

[ObiJohnKenobi]

i bet dan brown would like to hear some of this


dan brown has too much money and shit in his ear's to hear any of this. he makes for a good read, but he is the bubble gum of historical accounting.

[Rod]

but good songs are never really about just one thing. could have been about some stoner, birkenstock wearing hippie who likes to jam. and is ambi-dextrous. who cares? not I. there are no correct ideas in the end just words strung together to entertain.

I guess with TooL the songs seem to be a little deeper than your average band. You know Maynard's no idiot, and a lot if not all of his songs do seem to carry a message or a philosophy.

I think what most of us here are trying to do is figure that message out. So while you can twist the interpritation any way you like, you know there is one "right answer". Unfahtunaetly only Maynard knows what that is and he's not interested in telling you or me. It's kind of like a game we play with TooL. More entertainment if you will.