{Viginti Tres+Wings pt1} + 10,000 Days (Wings pt2) = WINGS FOR MARIE

[know1special2u]

***No 23 numerology and/or improperly mixed .mp3s here****

Just a simple, straight forward explanation. Clear your mind of the other long-winded thread.

FYI - Musicians & recording engineers, et al. : For discussion's sake, we'll say there's a total of 24 individual tracks that compile 'Wings For Marie'. It's not intended to be the exact # of tracks that TOOL actually recorded.



So, here's how it breaks down:



TOOL records a song, entitled 'WINGS FOR MARIE'. Counting the bass tracks, the guitar leads & fills tracks, vocal tracks & vocal overdubs, percussion tracks, glarbs, bells, whistles, hidden whispers, etc.... it all equals 24 tracks.

Just for fun, they separate the full 24 tracks down the middle, calling the 1st 12 tracks 'Wings pt1' and the other 12 tracks '10,000 Days (Wings pt2)'.

You now have 'WINGS FOR MARIE' as 2 main tracks. Pt. 1 for your left ear. Pt 2 for the right (or vice-versa).

But this is too obvious. With the dual photos the "same but slightly different", everyone would figure out this synch trick easily.


So to make it more of a challenge, they decide to cut out the 1st 5 minutes of 'Wings pt1' and make it a separate track, which becomes known as 'Viginti Tres'. This 'lost key' is the last track, track #11.

To drop a 'DaVinci Code'-like hint, they put the #11 represented in each of their band photos in the same location: the lower right side

Danny - the stems of the flowers on the right make '11'

Justin - there are 11 {fully visible} candles on the right

Maynard - the hand on the clock points to 11

Adam - 11 glass jars on the table on the right


So, when all the 'pieces' are put back together/arranged properly, you'll get the song in it's full majestic capacity, aptly titled,'WINGS FOR MARIE'..........no pts 1 or 2.


Simply Put:

{Viginti Tres+Wings For Marie (Pt 1)} + 10,000 Days (Wings Pt2) = WINGS FOR MARIE



Informing the masses by confusing them completely,
J

[Big Fat Matt]

all played at the same time? or in the order you said.

[cfdrummer]

I think the 11 is something important to it but after doing extensive mixing with the songs in every way said and imaginable I can't find something clear or perfect enough to say the band wanted this done, there is just too much un-sync'd parts that, as a musician with sound mixing experience, sound more distracting than actually music (as i've said on the board before). I do think you've got a case for the 11, good observation!

[know1special2u]

all played at the same time? or in the order you said.

As stated in the detailed analysis thread.

Viginti Tres - 5:02

Wings pt 1 - 6:11

Put those 2 tracks 2gether, in that order, and you get the full version of Wings for Marie (Pt1) for total running time of 11:13.

10,000 Days (Wings Pt. 2) running time is 11:13.


Playing pts 1 & 2 simultaneous = full version of 'Wings For Marie'

[AEnimaTOOLer]

there is already a thread about this and it DOES NOT WORK. why would they have a track with maynard singing over himself? it works at the beginning of the song with maynard singing you believed and so on, but he goes on to sing both songs at the same time.

[know1special2u]

there is just too much un-sync'd parts that, as a musician with sound mixing experience, sound more distracting than actually music (as i've said on the board before).

True, but try to look at it as you were actually mixing all the components. You probably wouldn't have all the sounds at the same levels & whatnot.

I don't know, it all makes too much sense.

[AEnimaTOOLer]

im sorry to sound like im flaming you, but if TOOL wanted its listeners to hear something, they wouldnt hide it. it doesnt take much to look around at all of the articles and see that TOOL is all about the MUSIC and giving the listeners an experience. if they wanted the listeners to have an experience, they wouldnt send them on a goose chase just to hear it. just my opinion but i feel that if they wanted you to hear something they way they felt it and wanted you to feel it too, they would put it on the album that way too

[deviever]

im sorry to sound like im flaming you, but if TOOL wanted its listeners to hear something, they wouldnt hide it. it doesnt take much to look around at all of the articles and see that TOOL is all about the MUSIC and giving the listeners an experience. if they wanted the listeners to have an experience, they wouldnt send them on a goose chase just to hear it. just my opinion but i feel that if they wanted you to hear something they way they felt it and wanted you to feel it too, they would put it on the album that way too

u r l4m3 d13 n0w

devi-

[AEnimaTOOLer]

u r l4m3 d13 n0w

devi-


learn to type, and maybe say something a little more insightful instead of some lame computer talk. what i said was pretty relevant if you ask me.

[knpoole]

I have to agree with AEnimaTOOLer. I have tried to mix this combination and it is out of sync no matter what you do and I am using proffesional editing software. But I have to admit it is a strange coincidence that these track lengths add up so nicely.

[know1special2u]

Did anyone ever stop to ponder that maybe the 2 parts aren't supposed to synch up perfectly note for note??

Ya know, the 2 photos in the artwork doesn't line up perfectly either, it's never 100% perfectly synched, but it creates the illusion of a 3-D image.

The playing of Wings Pt 1 & Pt 2 doesn't synch perfectly, but it creates the illusion of a 3-D audio experience.

I'm sticking with my findings. All the evidence seems to support the claim, including all the numerology posted in the other thread.

Plus, I've yet to hear anyone else come up with a solution with a slew of supporting details. I'm open to suggestions.

So, if anyone's got a better theory (besides the BS "there is no puzzle' answer), I'd love to hear it. Besides, TOOL wouldn't cop-out like that, that's better left to M. Night Shymalammadingdong! HAHA!*L*

[AEnimaTOOLer]

im not sure that i understand the idea of listening to a song that doesnt sync up perfectly. listening to your "remix" is a jumbled mess. if it were to really supposed to sound like this it would turn one of the most beautiful TOOL songs into one of the worst TOOL songs ive ever heard. i was looking on my mp3 player last night and i found out that led zeppelins song "houses of the holy" and A Perfect Circles "the Outsider" are close, but not exact in lenght. maybe they were actually meant to be played together!? i mean, there CANT be a coincidence that tracks length add up to be the same length can it!?

[know1special2u]

^^^^^^^^^

LOL!!

[jeross1]

Did anyone ever stop to ponder that maybe the 2 parts aren't supposed to synch up perfectly note for note??

Ya know, the 2 photos in the artwork doesn't line up perfectly either, it's never 100% perfectly synched, but it creates the illusion of a 3-D image.

The playing of Wings Pt 1 & Pt 2 doesn't synch perfectly, but it creates the illusion of a 3-D audio experience.

I'm sticking with my findings. All the evidence seems to support the claim, including all the numerology posted in the other thread.

Plus, I've yet to hear anyone else come up with a solution with a slew of supporting details. I'm open to suggestions.

So, if anyone's got a better theory (besides the BS "there is no puzzle' answer), I'd love to hear it. Besides, TOOL wouldn't cop-out like that, that's better left to M. Night Shymalammadingdong! HAHA!*L*

the photos are separate and stay separate. only in our minds do they every truly become one image. this could be applied to the songs. ever thought about playing 10000 days on your cdplayer and vignti tres and wings for marie pt 1 on your computer at the same time. it keeps the concept of two separate sounds from two separate places merging together in our ears. i offer this suggestion because you are trying to combine the two into one.

[foursixandtwo]

im not sure that i understand the idea of listening to a song that doesnt sync up perfectly. listening to your "remix" is a jumbled mess. if it were to really supposed to sound like this it would turn one of the most beautiful TOOL songs into one of the worst TOOL songs ive ever heard. i was looking on my mp3 player last night and i found out that led zeppelins song "houses of the holy" and A Perfect Circles "the Outsider" are close, but not exact in lenght. maybe they were actually meant to be played together!? i mean, there CANT be a coincidence that tracks length add up to be the same length can it!?
Good Post kind sir. I agree. Especially this part...

"listening to your "remix" is a jumbled mess. if it were to really supposed to sound like this it would turn one of the most beautiful TOOL songs into one of the worst TOOL songs ive ever heard"

[Existence_exists]

Well Vicarious and Time by Pink Floyd are both 7:06 and Metal by NIN is also...hmm and ther are theories that Trent makes a Guest appearance on Lipan Conjuring..and 10,000 Days(the album) is being compared to Pink Floyd stuff....Just maybe...hmm...and Fist Fuck by NIN is really close to Intension..just by a second..so...maybe If you Fist Fuck your Right ear and have Intesion in your Left ....or maybe the final corellation is Endless Column by Blue Man Group is the same time as ...*gasp*Viginiti Tres...Dunno...and Maybe 10000days put on repeat syncs up with Roots....Tell me how that one works out....

But other than that...Your Theory is interesting...but...hmm...Maybe you should look into how some people related Lateralus to the Fibonnaci Sequence (sp) ...Maybe Sacred Geomtry stuff...But the 11 thing..too random...I kinda would like to see if someone can fit Intension into Disposition/Reflection/Triad since it was mentioned that it was like Dispostion pt.2..

[unclewayne]

When is the last time someone watched the Parabola DVD? What the comentary by the DK singer!!!

[cranstonman]

the whole synchronicity thing just doesn't work. the band did not record to a click track. therefore, it's nearly impossible to line up two tracks simultaneaously.

[Jan_venken]

And how do you know for sure that the band didn't use a clicktrack? Would make sense considering the complexity of their songs.

[unclewayne]

Modern Drummer interview

[maxim]

When I first watched the DVDs with the "dual commentary" I thought something was wrong with my player. I didn't realized they had actually ment it to sound that way. It's quite difficult to understand what the speaker is saying half the time because I was hearing two people say the same thing at different times, but simultaniously. I've thought about cutting out the left or the right track so I can actually hear what the speaker is saying but I don't know if it would be worth the effort given that from what I heard it wasn't really that enlightening about the video anyway.

The way I feel about it is if i'm going to go to all this work to create something it better be pleasant to listen to.

[Jan_venken]

Nice, quite an ordeal recording their music without a click.

[Kev1326]

I only know the ends of Pt. 1 and Pt. 2 go nicely together.

[NicParabola]

I combined Viginti Tres & Wings For Marie to one track and mixed it with 10,000 Days... It actually blends pretty well, except for a few places where the harmonies don't match. But mostly it mixes good, especially the end, which is very similar in both tunes. Viginti Tres kinda fits the beginning of 10KD too, but it's a little misplaced I guess... Some voice roaring ASSIST USS or THE SYSTEMM (whatever he's saying) in the middle of a very emotional song...

Very nice is the part where 10,000 Days is building up and the beginning of Wings for Marie matches it so nicely, at approximately 6 min. Try it out yourself, but you have to watch out that the ends of Wings and 10,000 Days match so the rest of the song will match too.

[I Chas I]

If anyone has iTunes, you can see that both songs play the exact same part at 2:00 untill the end of the song. When synced with viginti Tres + Wings for Marie = 10,000 Days, the two songs are perfectly syncronized with 2:00 till the end. Although the rest of the song doesnt sound that great in my opinion, there is no doubting that this was intensional.

[homemade_poser]

I think there is something that is supposed to be done to this album, maybe not this exact thing, maybe this is just the tip of the iceberg, but I do believe somethings in album that are "coincidences" have something to do with a bigger picture. Maybe the whole album can be layered until we have a 27 minute song with 48 layers of each song all cut up, none of us will be able to know exactly what Tool intended with this album. The only problem with this argument is that Wings and 10,000 days are 'technically' linked, I'm almost sure of it, I mean why the hell would they give us the same song almost? I haven't seen anything like it, besides parabol/parbola, but those songs flowed, not like this jumble. I'm almost sure there is an order we're supposed to find in this album, an order that should create something new, maybe we have already found it, maybe we haven't even begun to find it, I don't think we will ever find it, so until someone decides to drive themselves to the point of madness just to figure out some secret song that might not even be relevent to the album, I will listen to the album and be happy with what Tool has given me thusfar, I know someone in due time will figure something out that will blow our minds.

[thepatient_10k]

umm lets recall...blair said the puzzle was in the artwork not the music.

Im pretty sure the music is there just to be listened to..you know..as it is. You guys are are obsessive compulsive or something.

[ColdLogic]

I'm not entirely sure that the band assumes enough sophistication in its audience to do this. If you haven't noticed, the packaging includes a diagram of how to use the damn glasses. I'm fairly confident that they wouldn't hide a puzzle THAT big in the record (don't forget, while the Fibonacci Sequence is an impressive feat for them to do it's a rather simple puzzle for us to figure out, what with all the spiral clues and the rumored previous titles of the song in the FAQ).

Having said that, I would LOVE to hear the VT/Wings/10K mix if someone would post it. I actually encountered this right after the record came out (someone posted a review on Amazon and mentioned this).

As for the 11 reference in the art, I read somewhere in the LK/RS lyrics section that 11:11 p.m. on some particular day in 2012 is when the world will end according to the Mayan Calendar (and this was somehow linked to 10K days -- not the song, but the phrase).

[EternalSiGN]

can one of the guys that mixed them post it up so i can hear this

[barosjn]

The 10,000 Days album itself probably has an alternate tracklisting just like the situation with the Lateralus album and the Fibbonacci sequence. We just need to figure it out some more.

[littlejason]

The 10,000 Days album itself probably has an alternate tracklisting just like the situation with the Lateralus album and the Fibbonacci sequence. We just need to figure it out some more.

maynard came out and said at one point that there is no alternate track listing for lateralus, that it was all jsut people looking to deep. People talk of it somewhere else on the board.


In addition, and it may not be the BEST reference, but there was an entry on the tool site that blair posted mentioning something about 2 different tracks over lapping one another. It was vaguely cryptic but the meaning was pretty obvious and it was clear that it was 2 tracks overlapped each other to make the song that much better. I couldn't tell you which ones though, with all this Viginti Tres + Wings for Marie talk, i wouldn't doubt it, i haven't gotten the chance to listen to it overlapped yet.

[Chosen One]

just listened to it, sync was off by mili second but sounded like it matched for the most part, not sure if i would like this song better than the "obvious" and separate versions...pretty neat, kinda reminds of playing ozzy records backward when i was a junior, inane but fun. sometimes i think tool displays so much talent that people just want more and more than what's really there. i can't say they definitely intended this mashing of tunes but it's tough to deny the similarities.

[metalwarriorx]

LOOK WHAT THIS BAND HAS DONE TO YOU PEOPLE!!!

FUCKEN TOOL FUCKEN RULES US!!

[RedMetalSox]

The 10,000 Days album itself probably has an alternate tracklisting just like the situation with the Lateralus album and the Fibbonacci sequence. We just need to figure it out some more.


What is the deal with Lateralus...what alt. track listing is everyone talking about

[RedMetalSox]

I Was thinking about the whole WFM/VT/1000 thing how two songs joind make one that "sync" with a third and thought that the Album Cover Artwork could represent this... The 2 heads off to the side with the one main head, the 3 put together make one head. And the other face off to the side has very femenin qualities, and isnt duplicated on the other side, could this be a representation of his mother?

And does anyone think anything of the pics on Adams myspace page, they'll all split in two, kind of like the inner sleeve photos on the record...just throwing that out there

I don't really believe much of all this puzzle shit and every other thing that is talked about with this record...hidden messages(ect.)

Why can't TOOL just be a band that wrote some songs and put out a CD. can't anyone accept the fact that these guys just sat around for a while made some music, MJK write some melody's and lyrics and thats it....they had a new record.
All they want is some money, "Beggin for ya filthy dirty dollar!"

[praefector]

And does anyone think anything of the pics on Adams myspace page, they'll all split in two, kind of like the inner sleeve photos on the record...just throwing that out there




yeah adam has a whole slew of stereoscopic images on his page.

and this trick doesnt work...just more fans digging for what isnt there

[barosjn]

What is the deal with Lateralus...what alt. track listing is everyone talking about

The alternate tracklisting for Lateralus I was talking about was the order for The Holy Gift, in which every track on Lateralus played in the order below makes one big eighty minute long song.

Parabol
Parabola
Schism
Ticks & Leeches
Mantra
Lateralus
Faaip De Oaid
The Grudge
Triad
Eon Blue Apocalypse
Reflection
The Patient
Disposition

[koobcam]

^ Lateralus info is all over the net. Even Wiki.

Can someone post an MP3 of all this? I seriously think some guys have issues. I still want to hear it though.

[paradiddlellogram]

Dunno if any one's read the may newsletter on toolband.com, but is Blair is to be belived, know1special2u is, if not entirely right, then on the right track. Having said that, the whole newsletter was dripping with sarcasm, and after a while it washed over me, so he could just have been being sarcastic when he said that that wings 1 and 2 and viginti tres combine to make on big super hidden track.

[DON IOTAE]

I only know the ends of Pt. 1 and Pt. 2 go nicely together.
And that's a given. they're the same part.

[The Drizzle]

the combo does sound a bit contrived for most of the play time but there is a very interesting part when the two merge at about 9:14 that sounds really cool also the echo of the two different end verses plays well together.

[wearethestories]

I only know the ends of Pt. 1 and Pt. 2 go nicely together.
the ENDS that you speak of... maybe it's because he's saying virtually THE SAME THING AT THE END OF BOTH SONGS...




just a thought

[DON IOTAE]

Uh, I already posted that one before. I guess it doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's hard for some people to get sometimes!!! But let's keep trying.

[unclewayne]

Does anyone have this posted anymore?

[wearethestories]

Uh, I already posted that one before. I guess it doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's hard for some people to get sometimes!!! But let's keep trying.
sorry... didn't read the whole thread... at least we had the same thought

[DON IOTAE]

sorry... didn't read the whole thread... at least we had the same thoughtNo apology necessary. It's just so obvious, it's strange that people don't notice it, you know? They go off claiming the songs fit perfectly when there's a simple reason behind it: the one you've pointed out.
I guess it doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's hard for some people to get sometimes!!! But let's keep trying.There I was referring to the people that don't realize that it's the same part; not you. (Just in case.)

[know1special2u]

Dunno if any one's read the may newsletter on toolband.com, but is Blair is to be belived, know1special2u is, if not entirely right, then on the right track. Having said that, the whole newsletter was dripping with sarcasm,

Yeah, I just read the May newsletter.

So, after almost 2 months of contemplation & reflection, what's my current view on the "puzzle" topic?



I think it's been an interesting way to bring the TOOL fans together, puzzle or no puzzle. Much like the 'Publius Enigma' Pink Floyd puzzle, it's very possible that the whole point was to suggest a solution/answer & see if our collective minds could come up with something we could all agree on to a point that it'd become true to us. Could just be lattice of coincidence, much like the 'Dark Side of Oz' phenomenon. Or Jesus Christ appearing on a tortilla chip in Brazil (as opposed to a Krispy Kreme chocolate glazed in Kentucky).


After reading the newsletter, it's doubtful that this synch song was done intentionally. Unless you want to begin reading into the Newsletter's sarcasm too much, pointing out stuff like Blair mentions the TA boards and shouts the word TRUE over & over when talking about the super 'hidden' song. But that's just being silly! (or is IT?!! haha).

Although I am curious what Blair meant regarding "some other things that should make certain people happy".


Unless stated otherwise, I put the synch theory in the same category as the Pink Floyd/Wizard of Oz and the Fantomas/Passion of the Christ synch up trick. Pure coincidence, nothing more (or less). Still sounds neat to me synch'd up.


And remember, I DID NOT discover the synch song (as I stated in the other thread similiar to this one). All I did was come up with some supporting details (ie. stared way too long at the CD pics & watched too much CSI:) to try to vailidate the song finding. Just trying to make a compelling argument, ya know, "evidence don't lie" as Grissom would say. You gotta admit, with all the ballyhoo surrounding the puzzle there really haven't been more theories brought forward that've sparked this much discussion. Although I did enjoy the alchemy theory in the 1 thread.

At least it got everyone communicating.

Like I said in the 'Humor" thread:

TOOL + 10,000 Days = Millions of satisfied fans


Cheers!
K1S2U

[Yondo]

the ENDS that you speak of... maybe it's because he's saying virtually THE SAME THING AT THE END OF BOTH SONGS...




just a thought

Not just the ends.

When the "Storm" sets in in 10kDays, YOu get he loud crash, Viginiti winds up. the solos on 10kDays, "Ascisco", and then the whirlsinds and water and crashign and storming, all during the solo. Nothing interrupts 10kd Lyrics, nothing interrupts Viginiti Tres Lyrics. It merges. When Viginit dies down, 10kDays builds up.

It is, as I feel it, the Soundtrack to our Rapture.

[Koan]

Umm, so basically all the stereo divisions in these tracks are useless, as they serve for one ear each? And the vocals become unintelligeble? And the sound becomes one big drone, with some weird voice going FRANSISCO at one point which has nothing to do with Judith Marie?

[jarbsy]

I think in theory it's tight but in practice...sounds way too...shit haha to justify the theory.

[hose]

Maybe they arnt ment to be listend to together. Maybe the fact that the times link up is pointing to some other link between the songs. Keeping that in mind and the fact that there is some "hidden words" in viginty tres, try listening to the hidden words. If you think you hear something then look again at the 4 band pictures combined. Maybe the puzzle will start to uncoil.
The seeker finds.

[x3rdIx]

"If you Fist Fuck your Right ear " - Existence_exists

Lmaonade... Thats too funny...