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The Outlaw
05-16-2006, 01:31 AM
I'm in total disbelief. You guys all love this song? Seriously? You're really not seeing all the key parts to this song that have been completely taken from other tool songs? Really? Or is it that you just don't care? Yes, Iíve seen all the threads noting "similarities" between songs. But that's not quite accurate. Because these aren't similarities, they're blatant rip-offs.

The first time I heard this song, I loved it. It was my favorite on the album. Then I listened to it again, and noticed how many parts of it were DIRECTLY taken from other tool songs, most notably Third Eye. Then I looked at the ridiculous joke lyrics. Wow, was I ever let down. Sure they're funny, but of course then I know it's a joke song. Even if the lyrics seem to be making a connection to the excerpt at the beginning of third eye (today a young man on acid...) it still doesn't seem justified. So, of course I was irritated at the fact that instead of getting a new fresh 11 minute epic song, Tool put a total joke song on the album. Granted, on it's own, disregarding everything that makes this wrong, the song is pretty good. But Iíd prefer something new, something that hasn't been recycled, and something that's not a joke. When I looked at the forums, I expected to see a million threads of people saying exactly what I'm thinking. Turns out I'm just about the only one....how about that. I look at the forums, and find out everyone thinks this is the most original and best tool song ever. At which point I become slightly ashamed I'm a tool fan.

As a musician, guitar player, and sober person, let me take you on a very short and obvious journey to why this song isn't original. Instead of listing timing signatures or the notes being played, Iím just going to list the times. Listen to them side by side, and please, try to tell me you don't see how identical they are. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying, try to listen to what Iíve listened one after the other. Don't be trying to prove me wrong, just listen. And don't try to link the parts to what comes before or after, listen to them for what they are.

Rosetta Stoned 0:00-0:18 compared to H 0:00-0:21

Rosetta Stoned 2:25-2:45 compared to The Patient 4:42-5:14

Rosetta Stoned 3:00-3:50 compared to third Eye 9:55-11:17

Rosetta Stoned 6:04-7:04 compared to H 3:30-4:26

Rosetta Stoned 7:45-8:20 compared to The Grudge 7:38-8:03

And I'm pretty sure there's more. If that doesn't show you, I really don't know what to say. It's too profound to ignore: Rosetta Stoned is largely compiled of previously used riffs.

I refuse to believe that Tool would just recycle all these riffs. Taking the lyrics, it's easy to see how this song would be a joke. Add in all these lifted riffs. Add in all the fans thinking this is the most amazing and original tool song ever. Add in the sense of humor of the band.

"Hey, Adam!"
"Yeah Maynard?"
"Remember when we wrote that song using riffs from all our old songs, and made it about aliens? And everyone thought it was the greatest song ever?"
"Yeah, that was fucking hilarious!"

Don't get me wrong, I like the song. It's pretty damn cool. Too bad it's just a joke, and it uses riffs from at least four other tool songs, and the song was made as a complete joke. And so many people bought into it. There are even all these "Rosetta Stoned or Third Eye" threads. How can Rosetta Stoned be better then Third Eye if Rosetta Stoned is just a cheap rip-off?

Come on. You're taking a person saying "God damn, shit the bed!" as the greatest piece of music ever written. You really think it isn't a joke? I'm amazed.

Muladhara
05-16-2006, 02:08 AM
The beginning of Rosetta Stoned sounds nothing like the beginning to H.

Zeravla
05-16-2006, 05:02 AM
See...now this is why I love Tool..and Tool fans. Always something fresh to ponder.
I like where both Outlaw and McRoggles are going with this. Thanks for giving me something else to listen for. Always a new treat around the bend....even when you've heard a song 10,000 times ;-)

Yogho!
05-16-2006, 05:36 AM
dont compare everything you retards this song is just brutal @ beginning and beautiful @ the end

awesome song

....and re-using riffs is not wrong

paraflux
05-16-2006, 06:20 AM
I'm in disbelief that people cant see that the title has everything to do with the older riffs being used again, in a disjointed fashion.

flawlessme
05-16-2006, 06:28 AM
That is exactly why we all love the song. Read McRoggles post again. This is Tool laughing at themselves in a way.

ataraxia77
05-16-2006, 06:49 AM
I appreciate the time counts and totally agree that there are most likely even more. However, I disagree about it being a joke. Vicarious, The Pot, Wings for Marie, and Right in Two all have pieces of their previous work in them as well. To top it off, Right in Two begins with a counterpoint melody to Rosetta Stoned's climax, which if RS is a joke would jocular-ize that song too. The whole album is filled with references lyrically as well. Either you must dismiss the entire album as a joke with all of these references, or realize what the intention (I think the homophone-entitled song actually may apply to this) of the album's message is. So I think that while Rosetta Stoned is the most blatant case, Paraflux is right and it needs to be used as the interpretive center. Either toss out the whole CD as a well-crafted joke (which, hey, maybe it is) or figure out what's going on, but I don't think there are other intermediate options given the way the songs all build off others.

CaseLogic
05-16-2006, 06:56 AM
Sorry but half your comparisons are way off. Let me guess, it sounds like The Grudge in that one part because of that ONE drumkit sound that's played similarly to The Grudge? Wow, good one chief. I think the whole song sounds like Aenima because it has a high-hat in it.

mikey6719
05-16-2006, 07:19 AM
This shit is crazy. I gotta wonder do people sit around and analyze Nickelback like this? Oh thats right WHO CARES! Tool music is purposely vague and personally interpretable for the individual listening....just enjoy....

StereoScopicLenses
05-16-2006, 08:19 AM
Sorry but half your comparisons are way off. Let me guess, it sounds like The Grudge in that one part because of that ONE drumkit sound that's played similarly to The Grudge? Wow, good one chief. I think the whole song sounds like Aenima because it has a high-hat in it.


HAHAA YES EXACTLY.. TELL THAT FOOL TO GO JERK-OFF (pun intended)

vagina patterson
05-16-2006, 08:26 AM
Well I just saw Tool open with this song (as others have) last Saturday and they sure didn't play it like it was a joke...

Steventh
05-16-2006, 08:27 AM
Don't pieces of Lateralus (the album) have bits and pieces of older songs in them? What about the bass line from Lateralus (the song)? At parts, it sounds like the bass line from Eulogy. Maybe that's just me noticing it, but I can swear that it does at certain points.

Point is... who cares? The whole album isn't a carbon copy of their older stuff... there are just bits and pieces that are similiar. Honestly, the only one I noticed upon my first listen of 10,000 Days is the "Third Eye riff" found about halfway through Rosetta Stoned. The beginning of Rosetta Stoned sounds nothing like the beginning of H to me.

foursixandtwo
05-16-2006, 08:27 AM
I'm in total disbelief. You guys all love this song? Seriously? You're really not seeing all the key parts to this song that have been completely taken from other tool songs? Really? Or is it that you just don't care? Yes, Iíve seen all the threads noting "similarities" between songs. But that's not quite accurate. Because these aren't similarities, they're blatant rip-offs.

The first time I heard this song, I loved it. It was my favorite on the album. Then I listened to it again, and noticed how many parts of it were DIRECTLY taken from other tool songs, most notably Third Eye. Then I looked at the ridiculous joke lyrics. Wow, was I ever let down. Sure they're funny, but of course then I know it's a joke song. Even if the lyrics seem to be making a connection to the excerpt at the beginning of third eye (today a young man on acid...) it still doesn't seem justified. So, of course I was irritated at the fact that instead of getting a new fresh 11 minute epic song, Tool put a total joke song on the album. Granted, on it's own, disregarding everything that makes this wrong, the song is pretty good. But Iíd prefer something new, something that hasn't been recycled, and something that's not a joke. When I looked at the forums, I expected to see a million threads of people saying exactly what I'm thinking. Turns out I'm just about the only one....how about that. I look at the forums, and find out everyone thinks this is the most original and best tool song ever. At which point I become slightly ashamed I'm a tool fan.

As a musician, guitar player, and sober person, let me take you on a very short and obvious journey to why this song isn't original. Instead of listing timing signatures or the notes being played, Iím just going to list the times. Listen to them side by side, and please, try to tell me you don't see how identical they are. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying, try to listen to what Iíve listened one after the other. Don't be trying to prove me wrong, just listen. And don't try to link the parts to what comes before or after, listen to them for what they are.

Rosetta Stoned 0:00-0:18 compared to H 0:00-0:21

Rosetta Stoned 2:25-2:45 compared to The Patient 4:42-5:14

Rosetta Stoned 3:00-3:50 compared to third Eye 9:55-11:17

Rosetta Stoned 6:04-7:04 compared to H 3:30-4:26

Rosetta Stoned 7:45-8:20 compared to The Grudge 7:38-8:03

And I'm pretty sure there's more. If that doesn't show you, I really don't know what to say. It's too profound to ignore: Rosetta Stoned is largely compiled of previously used riffs.

I refuse to believe that Tool would just recycle all these riffs. Taking the lyrics, it's easy to see how this song would be a joke. Add in all these lifted riffs. Add in all the fans thinking this is the most amazing and original tool song ever. Add in the sense of humor of the band.

"Hey, Adam!"
"Yeah Maynard?"
"Remember when we wrote that song using riffs from all our old songs, and made it about aliens? And everyone thought it was the greatest song ever?"
"Yeah, that was fucking hilarious!"

Don't get me wrong, I like the song. It's pretty damn cool. Too bad it's just a joke, and it uses riffs from at least four other tool songs, and the song was made as a complete joke. And so many people bought into it. There are even all these "Rosetta Stoned or Third Eye" threads. How can Rosetta Stoned be better then Third Eye if Rosetta Stoned is just a cheap rip-off?

Come on. You're taking a person saying "God damn, shit the bed!" as the greatest piece of music ever written. You really think it isn't a joke? I'm amazed.
I couldn't agree with you more. This song is way too hyped up. It's Tool, I dont believe there is such thing as a bad Tool song--but this one comes pretty close. It sounds like recycled jibberish and makes me cringe. Perhaps I am not seeing "the big picture" like everyone else.

CaseLogic
05-16-2006, 08:35 AM
I couldn't agree with you more. This song is way too hyped up. It's Tool, I dont believe there is such thing as a bad Tool song--but this one comes pretty close. It sounds like recycled jibberish and makes me cringe. Perhaps I am not seeing "the big picture" like everyone else.

Or perhaps you're being too closed-minded. Most people that don't like this song are the ones that were expecting 10K days to be Lateralus II. Then when they feel like some of the songs sound like old shit, they complain. Kind of contradictory, isn't it?

Besides, the only song that Rosetta Stoned arguably sounds like is Third Eye, and I'm sure that's more than intentional. Any other comparison is just bitching that Tool sounds like Tool.

GaryRoberts
05-16-2006, 08:47 AM
Well, look what I found!

I've noticed the similiarties pointed out by "The Outlaw", but I don't think the song is a joke at all.

An analogy: Sure, you've seen posts by GaryRoberts on other message boards before, but seeing GaryRoberts post in a different forum doesn't make GaryRoberts any less awesome. Or something.

Okay, time to go back to the 705 page.

foursixandtwo
05-16-2006, 09:09 AM
Or perhaps you're being too closed-minded. Most people that don't like this song are the ones that were expecting 10K days to be Lateralus II. Then when they feel like some of the songs sound like old shit, they complain. Kind of contradictory, isn't it?

Besides, the only song that Rosetta Stoned arguably sounds like is Third Eye, and I'm sure that's more than intentional. Any other comparison is just bitching that Tool sounds like Tool.

I was not expecting Lateralus II. I happen to love 10,000 Days, but do NOT see what all of the excitement about Rosetta Stoned is. Perhaps in time I will eat my words, but it doesnt look like it will be any time soon.

Exegesis
05-16-2006, 09:21 AM
Rosetta Stoned is brilliant.

I don't care if riffs are re-used (they're not), or if they're old un-used riffs (they are) from Adam.

If you really are a musician, you KNOW music is one big recycle fest, and that its not in the actual notes/riffs itself, but the chemistry of the band, the FEELING you put into it, and the structure and quality of performing it.

Get over yourself, please! THE OUTLAW needs to drop the mind a little bit, and get with the FEELING, and all will be good.

This album is meant to be FELT, not deciphered with the brainage.

I say we go after Steve Harris of Iron Maiden for using the same E-D-C chord progression in almost every song he's written!!!!!!! Yeah. Let's get him!

Or let's whine about AC/DC writing the same song their whole career, instead of just enjoying the flat-out rock they produce. YEAH!

enjoy Rosetta Stoned, and it will make you have a natural HIGH. It's like a drug. Just enjoy it, man.

The Outlaw
05-16-2006, 09:50 AM
the thing is, i'm not overanalyzing this. these are things i noticed very quickly, and then just took the time to write down. CaseLogic, as far as what you're saying, i haven't heard that drum beat used in any other song i've ever heard. it's unique. or at least it was, until they decided to completly re-use it. i'm getting a lot of interesting feedback that i'm enjoying here.

oh, and sorry for my shitty screen name, it's several years old.

paraflux
05-16-2006, 10:46 AM
Rosetta Stoned is brilliant.

I don't care if riffs are re-used (they're not), or if they're old un-used riffs (they are) from Adam.

If you really are a musician, you KNOW music is one big recycle fest, and that its not in the actual notes/riffs itself, but the chemistry of the band, the FEELING you put into it, and the structure and quality of performing it.

Get over yourself, please! THE OUTLAW needs to drop the mind a little bit, and get with the FEELING, and all will be good.

This album is meant to be FELT, not deciphered with the brainage.

I say we go after Steve Harris of Iron Maiden for using the same E-D-C chord progression in almost every song he's written!!!!!!! Yeah. Let's get him!

Or let's whine about AC/DC writing the same song their whole career, instead of just enjoying the flat-out rock they produce. YEAH!

enjoy Rosetta Stoned, and it will make you have a natural HIGH. It's like a drug. Just enjoy it, man.
Agreed, for the most part. I just think the brainage should be used in determining what the basic message should be for you. But from that point on, it's all feeling. I do think that Lateralus was largely like that, too, I mean, you're supposed to feel the spiral, feel the tedium in the Patient, feel the Reflection, feel the power of the Triad.

blackandwhite
05-16-2006, 10:59 AM
How can Rosetta Stoned be better then Third Eye if Rosetta Stoned is just a cheap rip-off?




Its not a rip off if you're taking it from your own work.

AMF
05-16-2006, 01:44 PM
Give me a fucking break guys.

AMF
05-16-2006, 01:45 PM
Its not a rip off if you're taking it from your own work.

Yup. Apparently that's a hard concept for people to grasp.

AMF
05-16-2006, 01:49 PM
Rosetta Stoned is brilliant.

I don't care if riffs are re-used (they're not), or if they're old un-used riffs (they are) from Adam.

If you really are a musician, you KNOW music is one big recycle fest, and that its not in the actual notes/riffs itself, but the chemistry of the band, the FEELING you put into it, and the structure and quality of performing it.

Get over yourself, please! THE OUTLAW needs to drop the mind a little bit, and get with the FEELING, and all will be good.

This album is meant to be FELT, not deciphered with the brainage.

I say we go after Steve Harris of Iron Maiden for using the same E-D-C chord progression in almost every song he's written!!!!!!! Yeah. Let's get him!

Or let's whine about AC/DC writing the same song their whole career, instead of just enjoying the flat-out rock they produce. YEAH!

enjoy Rosetta Stoned, and it will make you have a natural HIGH. It's like a drug. Just enjoy it, man.

\m/ \m/ \m/ Exactly! "Oh no, listen, they used the 7/9/9 to 3/5/5 to 5/7/7 power chord progression! Linch them!" Think about all the songs that have ever been written. They ALL contain some similar notes, some arranged the same as other songs and some arranged the same, mostly out of pure chance. To write or type you draw from the same alphabet, just like with writing music it has an "alphabet" of its own that you draw from. People complain about this, then when Tool go do something totally off-the-wall like Lipan Conjuring or Caesaro Summability or Mantra or any of their weird interludes they get jumped on. They can't wain. ENJOY THE DAMN MUSIC ALREADY!

*goes to listen to some Motorhead* ;)

HallsOfMandos
05-16-2006, 01:53 PM
What is so wrong with re-visiting themes of your other works? Frank Zappa did this all the time, its called Conceptual Continuity, and this is part of what so many people find to be great about his music. I think it is brilliant that they are able to incorporate themes from older works in this album in a way that makes both the original and the newer piece bigger than what they are alone.

Happyfunball
05-16-2006, 04:04 PM
This shit is crazy. I gotta wonder do people sit around and analyze Nickelback like this?
I ponder the existence of Nickleback quite often. Is that the same thing?

blackandwhite
05-16-2006, 04:18 PM
They ALL contain some similar notes, some arranged the same as other songs and some arranged the same, mostly out of pure chance. To write or type you draw from the same alphabet, just like with writing music it has an "alphabet" of its own that you draw from.

That is exactly it. Why does eveything need to be orignally original. As far as songs go, Tool is pretty original, but there's only so much you can do, as much as I hate to say it.

HiPp_1
05-16-2006, 08:37 PM
That is exactly it. Why does eveything need to be orignally original. As far as songs go, Tool is pretty original, but there's only so much you can do, as much as I hate to say it.

Agreed, I dont know why people(not pointing anyone out here) feel the need to hear something totally different from TOOLs' previous material. Since you liked their old stuff, whats wrong with hearing bits and pieces of it mixed in with the new?

Cid
05-16-2006, 08:54 PM
IIt's Tool, I dont believe there is such thing as a bad Tool song--but this one comes pretty close.

you were right until the pot came out.

Drawn Under
05-16-2006, 09:21 PM
I looked at the similiarities of Third Eye found in Rosetta Stoned to be sort of a cameo, if you will, to Third Eye. Like in TV shows they have certain characters show up as cameos. I thought that the same guitar playing from Third Eye was making sort of a cameo appearance in Rosetta Stoned. Also considering the similiar content of lyrics, this cameo is sort of a nod or hint at Third Eye. Well, thats my thoughts.

The Outlaw
05-16-2006, 09:56 PM
No. These are fans who joined the TOOL bandwagon after Lateralus debuted. The thinking from fans before '01 and after are very different. I personally dislike these newer fans, being un-enlightened. (not by Tool but in general)
Outlaw: You want your existence verified by posting useless crap and hoping others agree on or spit vitriol. Screen name old? From somewhere else but not here.
I like track 8. Most thoughts either way is meaningless.
Tool will always sound like Tool. They won't sound like Nirvana, Metallica, Shakira.
So from Opiate to 10,000 Days, why do people complain Maynard sounds like Maynard.
It is soooo DUHH GEORGE!!!

The screen name is old. Look under it, signed up march 2003.

Of course tool sounds like tool, that's why i love them. Because they have that "tool" quality to them, and you know what i'm talking about. Hell, the entire album sounds like tool, and that's fine. But there's a difference between a band having a quality, and reusing old material. I'm not trying to verify my existence. I made an observation. And i'm going to make another observation. You're not enlightened, you're just one of those arrogant people that claims to be enlightened because he can't come to terms with the fact that he's unremarkable. It seems to me that an "enlightened" person would probably consider the possibility that maybe one human being just wanted to post an opinion on a forum called OPINION. But then again, i'm not enlightened, so I guess I wouldn't know.

This song re-uses riffs and it's silly, simply because of the fact that the riffs are re-used. Not because the song just sounds similar to other songs.

Can i hear some more feedback on this? I've actually heard some interesting things from people talking about things such as this having an overall theme to connect it to other tool songs. Interesting concept, I'd like to hear your explanations why.

etaipo
05-16-2006, 11:19 PM
I am sure this has been said a hundred times in this thread and others already. I believe that this song is indeed a look back at their stuff and kind of half jokingly (shit the bed) from a sad place (blues album!). I am sure NO ONE will respond to this since it has probably been said but you know..I just cant explain it. I love the song. I 'get the bigger picture' (hopefully, if there is one, that is). Its hard to explain and to be honest I dont want to. If I did in a way in which you could understand where I was coming from..well then I just robbed the song of its purpose(s). So I say to all you doubters..keep listening. It will come to you...hopefully. Like I said earlier...none of you care. My favorite part is " Overwhelmed is what you would be
If placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the one.
Born to bear and read you all the details of our ending.
To write it down for all the world to see.
But I forgot my pen.
Shit, my bad again. Typical."
which pretty much sums up the song..for me atleast.

dedalus
05-16-2006, 11:47 PM
I'm in total disbelief ... I looked at the ridiculous joke lyrics. Wow, was I ever let down. I know it's a joke song. Tool put a total joke song on the album. Iíd prefer something new, something that hasn't been recycled, and something that's not a joke.

Don't just dismiss what I'm saying...

Taking the lyrics, it's easy to see how this song would be a joke.

<INSERT JOKE:

"Hey, Adam!"
"Yeah Maynard?"
"Remember when we wrote that song using riffs from all our old songs, and made it about aliens? And everyone thought it was the greatest song ever?"
"Yeah, that was fucking hilarious!"

END JOKE>

I like the song. It's pretty damn cool. Too bad it's just a joke, and it uses riffs from at least four other tool songs, and the song was made as a complete joke.

Ok, so let me get this straight because I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're saying. Are you implying that this song is just a JOKE?

Muladhara
05-17-2006, 03:28 AM
The intro still sounds nothinkg like H, therefore the entire argument is flawed.

whitewater
05-17-2006, 03:32 AM
It's not the same riffs. Some of the times you quoted don't even sound very similar. Some do sound similar though, but they're still different in some way.

Why do they sound similar? Because that's Adam's style, that's how he plays, how he writes music. As a guitarist and musician you should know that everybody has their own style, their own flair that's repeated throughout their music, sometimes it's radically different, sometimes it's not so different.

My point is, SOME of the riffs sound SIMILAR, but are in fact different -- none of which detracts from the song because quite simply, it fucking rocks.

TOOLEK
05-17-2006, 03:40 AM
Good solid post.

Rosetta Stoned is a reflection. A reflection upon Tool's past. The things you hear as recycled are recycled but with a (good) twist.
This song is how they look back at their previous work (I bet someonce can find Opiate & Undertow links). The drugs promotion they did, the alien things they are interested in, the spiritual stuff, all is in this song.

Why?



Maynard at Lateralus. There where people searching for enlightment, holy track orders, spirituality, 2012, etc, etc on the Lateralus cd. In an interview Maynard ditched all alternate tracklistings. Maynard sees fans have took Lateralus out of context and one step too far.
Now he sings, he was the one who knew how the world would end, because fans where expecting that. But he forgot his pen. He is not the one and will never be and never was.
There is a lot of irony and sarcasm in this song. A pun at devout religious Lateralus followers (also at me ;) ).

This goes back to Vicarious. Vicarious starts as a song which sounds like a Lateralus song and then the alarm bell. An alarm for people to wake up, to get of the spiral and adress problems in the real world. Don't be on the spiral being ignorant for real life problem.

Besides that, Rosetta Stoned FUCKING ROCKS!!! That's important, I like it, even if there are 'old' things used.


That's what I think too. You are God damn right, couldn't put it bettter.

Apollo's third eye
05-17-2006, 04:01 AM
I'm just going to blantantly say this song isn't as great as its made out to be...I think the reason though that I think this is simply because I feel like the CD is lacking in the amount of soungs it has, for there to be joke songs and filler. I mean 5 years later and I kind of wanted more, not saying the Cd itself is bad but I mean if your going to do a joke song in which you recycle your old material it helps if there are more songs altogether to enjoy...I mean I'm just looking at this from the perspective that we might not get another album untill 5 years later.

MarcDrums
05-17-2006, 07:23 AM
i love rosetta stoned.. anyone ever thing they rehashed riffs on purpose??
the guy is talking about an acid trip, and it brings back a riff from a song that they wrote about *gasp* ACID..

Third eye comes in (with different notes and a different time signature mind you..) at about 2:56.. then he starts talking about his acid trip and stuff.. i dont know about you guys, but whenever i did any type of substance, it was always a similiar feeling, but not exactly the same.. maybe thats why they put the third eye esque riff in there to give you feelings nostalgia just like what happens when you are under the influence..

also if you guys are too blind to see past this to the actual "new" music in this song then i feel very sorry for you..

the bass drum break down starting at 7:03 is so complex it blows my mind..

the electronic drums / snare are playing in 3/4, and the bass drum is playing in some other time signature.. (15/4 ? ) playing two notes and then a rest, then two notes and a rest.

i'll try to tab it

edit: doesnt work

that complex pattern with the electronic drums at the same time :O

guitarpete987
05-17-2006, 08:08 AM
Expectations, sigh, they can really suck. Shed them now.

The title of this song, combined with these lyrics, says it all:

Overwhelmed is what you would be
If placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the one.
Born to bear and read you
All the details of our ending.
To write it down for all the world to see.
But I forgot my pen.
Shit the bad again. Typical.

If you know what the Rosetta Stone is, you will see how this how this song could be seen as a big "we don't take ourselves half as seriously as a lot of you do. And that's fine, just don't listen to this album that way." Fans have been doing so much endless deciphering with this band, and while there are certain messages that I believe the band did purposely put in their past works, I think that people, myself included, have indeed taken it a bit too far. Thus, the play on words with the Rosetta Stone to Rosetta 'Stoned'.

That doesn't mean this is a joke song, or that they did it half assed, but the self-referencing all makes sense in this context and isn't a symptom of a loss of ideas. It was completely intentional.

The song fucking rocks, just stop thinking about it so much. And I'm sorry, as simple as it might have been for you, I think actually documenting and plotting out all the times of the parts of the song you think sound like prior works could be considered "overthinking, overanalyzing".

MarcDrums
05-17-2006, 08:20 AM
Expectations, sigh, they can really suck. Shed them now.

The title of this song, combined with these lyrics, says it all:

Overwhelmed is what you would be
If placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the one.
Born to bear and read you
All the details of our ending.
To write it down for all the world to see.
But I forgot my pen.
Shit the bad again. Typical.

If you know what the Rosetta Stone is, you will see how this how this song could be seen as a big "we don't take ourselves half as seriously as a lot of you do. And that's fine, just don't listen to this album that way." Fans have been doing so much endless deciphering with this band, and while there are certain messages that I believe the band did purposely put in their past works, I think that people, myself included, have indeed taken it a bit too far. Thus, the play on words with the Rosetta Stone to Rosetta 'Stoned'.

That doesn't mean this is a joke song, or that they did it half assed, but the self-referencing all makes sense in this context and isn't a symptom of a loss of ideas. It was completely intentional.

The song fucking rocks, just stop thinking about it so much. And I'm sorry, as simple as it might have been for you, I think actually documenting and plotting out all the times of the parts of the song you think sound like prior works could be considered "overthinking, overanalyzing".definitely.. its all about the fact that the guy was too stoned to decypher what was said. thats it

littlejason
05-17-2006, 09:40 AM
people are really ripping into this record. i'm not even sure it was this bad when lateralus came out with all those people bitching about, 'radio friendly.' Look, unfortunately this band that you've come to love and cherish, are not Gods. This album revisited the older records...personally, that's what i was HOPING for, take me back a bit but don't let me stay there. Just be happy.

ataraxia77
05-17-2006, 11:36 AM
i agree with the previous few posts indicating that there is such a thing as overanalyzation (or in some of your cases, being overly anal).


just because it's funny doesn't mean it's a joke.

Happyfunball
05-17-2006, 07:27 PM
I don't think it's a joke at all. I think it conveys a scenario that is relatively funny to most of us, but not in the sense that it is intended to be a joke out-right like, say, 'The Gaping Lotus Experience' for example.

It deals with a topic that I personally find to be quite humorous, but also something I have a distinct interest in. Alien abduction tales are entertaining to me. The fact that people who get extremely loaded on particular substances do indeed have a frequent feeling of suddenly being able to comprehend the grandest of universal truths only to lose their grasp on those concepts as they start to come down. I'll gladly listen to a song about such things. It's appealing to me, and I'm more than happy to be entertained by it.

giff82
05-17-2006, 08:25 PM
I dunno, this song is weird for me... at first I didn't like it, now it's top 2 or 3 on the album for me... but certainly not the best of the best when it comes to Tool songs.

jackalEleven_c90
05-17-2006, 09:27 PM
I'm really suprised no one has thought that the subject matter is suprisingly similar to that of "Faaip De Oiad" off of Lateralus, (worker at Area 51 and all that). There, and I've said this before, is the theory that this album could be taken as an extention of some sort of the Lateralus album. I think that "Wings" and "10,000 Days" take weight away from the theory, but I belive this song adds some weight to it because of the similarities to some of the Lateralus tracks, and the Lateralus subject matter.

e1minsterz
05-17-2006, 09:40 PM
Wow, good one chief. I think the whole song sounds like Aenima because it has a high-hat in it.

i can't read the rest of the thread because this is too funny.

theprosperone
05-18-2006, 12:19 AM
I'm in total disbelief. You guys all love this song? Seriously? You're really not seeing all the key parts to this song that have been completely taken from other tool songs? Really? Or is it that you just don't care? Yes, Iíve seen all the threads noting "similarities" between songs. But that's not quite accurate. Because these aren't similarities, they're blatant rip-offs.

The first time I heard this song, I loved it. It was my favorite on the album. Then I listened to it again, and noticed how many parts of it were DIRECTLY taken from other tool songs, most notably Third Eye. Then I looked at the ridiculous joke lyrics. Wow, was I ever let down. Sure they're funny, but of course then I know it's a joke song. Even if the lyrics seem to be making a connection to the excerpt at the beginning of third eye (today a young man on acid...) it still doesn't seem justified. So, of course I was irritated at the fact that instead of getting a new fresh 11 minute epic song, Tool put a total joke song on the album. Granted, on it's own, disregarding everything that makes this wrong, the song is pretty good. But Iíd prefer something new, something that hasn't been recycled, and something that's not a joke. When I looked at the forums, I expected to see a million threads of people saying exactly what I'm thinking. Turns out I'm just about the only one....how about that. I look at the forums, and find out everyone thinks this is the most original and best tool song ever. At which point I become slightly ashamed I'm a tool fan.

As a musician, guitar player, and sober person, let me take you on a very short and obvious journey to why this song isn't original. Instead of listing timing signatures or the notes being played, Iím just going to list the times. Listen to them side by side, and please, try to tell me you don't see how identical they are. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying, try to listen to what Iíve listened one after the other. Don't be trying to prove me wrong, just listen. And don't try to link the parts to what comes before or after, listen to them for what they are.

Rosetta Stoned 0:00-0:18 compared to H 0:00-0:21

Rosetta Stoned 2:25-2:45 compared to The Patient 4:42-5:14

Rosetta Stoned 3:00-3:50 compared to third Eye 9:55-11:17

Rosetta Stoned 6:04-7:04 compared to H 3:30-4:26

Rosetta Stoned 7:45-8:20 compared to The Grudge 7:38-8:03

And I'm pretty sure there's more. If that doesn't show you, I really don't know what to say. It's too profound to ignore: Rosetta Stoned is largely compiled of previously used riffs.

I refuse to believe that Tool would just recycle all these riffs. Taking the lyrics, it's easy to see how this song would be a joke. Add in all these lifted riffs. Add in all the fans thinking this is the most amazing and original tool song ever. Add in the sense of humor of the band.

"Hey, Adam!"
"Yeah Maynard?"
"Remember when we wrote that song using riffs from all our old songs, and made it about aliens? And everyone thought it was the greatest song ever?"
"Yeah, that was fucking hilarious!"

Don't get me wrong, I like the song. It's pretty damn cool. Too bad it's just a joke, and it uses riffs from at least four other tool songs, and the song was made as a complete joke. And so many people bought into it. There are even all these "Rosetta Stoned or Third Eye" threads. How can Rosetta Stoned be better then Third Eye if Rosetta Stoned is just a cheap rip-off?

Come on. You're taking a person saying "God damn, shit the bed!" as the greatest piece of music ever written. You really think it isn't a joke? I'm amazed.

If you have any kind of a musical ear you'll be able to tell that the parts you pointed out aren't the same. I went and listened to each and every example you gave. Its about like comparing jimmy to third eye or all the songs off of opiate to each other. I think you've totally missed the point and feeling of this song if you just dismiss it as a ripoff and a joke.

hbynoe
05-18-2006, 12:24 AM
the weapons we posses
that unveil so much..so much of the familar
so much of the known, just a deeper understanding of it all
such a brilliant song totally mind blowing

Luosdasa
05-18-2006, 01:40 AM
I rekon this song as the worst on the album.
I mean, i hold this song as better than Aenima, and perhaps as good as Undertow and Lateralus, which says a lot for me... But i find this song a serious weak point.
I dont think its a joke song, i think its a bad song... i rekon it perhaps would have made an alright filler, but an 11 minute track!!??? with a 3 minute intro!!??
To me the lyrics are shalow, drug songs, and everythign to do with them, have been done before. The riffs arn't any of them amazing, and perhaps a little re-hashed.
I would also like to ask if you are serious...

Muladhara
05-18-2006, 02:30 AM
I'm Sirius.

erkee
05-18-2006, 07:36 PM
I'm sure this has had a similar post somewhere, but I dont have the patience to read through everything...

It's a song by Tool - sounds like Tool, whether or not it sounds like a new song by them or an old song by them, it sounds like them. There are few bands out there that you can say they fit within their own realms... generally you associate bands with a genre... Tool is one of the few where you can say "Oh, that's Tool"... not, "oh, that sounds like..." They are a sound and a force that people inspire to sound like. Groundbreaking if you will... Similar to when you hear someone say "that sounds like Pink Floyd" or "That's got Floydish qualities".

Read Adam Jones' interview in Guitar World... he discusses how they are 4 individuals that allow each other to be creatively free and argue things down to what fits for a song... They dont always agree on the lyrics or even parts for that matter, but they compromise and it becomes the song it becomes. It's all a part of the process - and writing songs with 4 musically and technically savvy individuals that have great but different ideas takes a lot of ego swallowing and compromise... I think they handle it pretty awesomely <-- if thats a word.

A lot of things Maynard says can be taken with a grain of salt and/or completely serious - that's the beauty in many of his lyrics... and for me, the foundation of his message, the music, has never failed to deliver - whether or not I get a good laugh about myself (i.e. Hooker with a Penis, Die Eier Von Satan, Viginti Tres,etc.) or if I take away something meaningful for me to digest and decipher on my own (i.e. Third Eye, Flood, Opiate etc.).

SPQR anTMan
05-18-2006, 11:26 PM
The beginning of Rosetta Stoned sounds nothing like the beginning to H.

i agree

Dj Consequence
05-18-2006, 11:55 PM
I looked at the similiarities of Third Eye found in Rosetta Stoned to be sort of a cameo, if you will, to Third Eye. Like in TV shows they have certain characters show up as cameos. I thought that the same guitar playing from Third Eye was making sort of a cameo appearance in Rosetta Stoned. Also considering the similiar content of lyrics, this cameo is sort of a nod or hint at Third Eye. Well, thats my thoughts.

Exactly...They are both definately about using Hallucinogens. To me Rosetta Stoned is the Bad Acid Trip. Before going into his story we find out he's in the hospital, he's lost his keys, and he won't speak to anyone. A lot of his thoughts are so random that making sense of the individual phrases isn't as important as just feeling his hysteria. Not once is there a moment close to... "we are all but one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves..." and yet both songs are about very similar subject matter. I hated this song at first. In fact the whole album let me down until my third or fourth listen. After seeing this song live it's very safe to say that it's not a joke. Anyways, enough rambling. this song is amazing, one day we will all agree on that.

Subster
05-19-2006, 12:48 AM
I love the irony of this song :)

On the particular day MJK wrote these lyrics; he had his pen.

The_Librarian
05-19-2006, 01:36 AM
I love the irony of this song :)

On the particular day MJK wrote these lyrics; he had his pen.

Not if he used a typewriter. Haha!

Scobularni
05-19-2006, 04:21 AM
I wasn't a big fan of this when I first heard it... now I'm loving it more and more with each listen. I thought it sounded like Third Eye first few listens, but now it sounds pretty unique.. I guess it's because the 'riff' is one of the first things you notice, and the underlying subtelties which really make this song good get noticed later.

djqwerty13
05-19-2006, 09:08 AM
you were right until the pot came out.

Booooo.... One of the most original songs I've ever heard. It's original, whimsical, and one of my favorites on the album

Happyfunball
05-19-2006, 11:20 AM
I suppose as one who's had to listen to somebody else's "I discovered the key to life" drug-enduced ramblings that end up making no sense whatsoever offers me a certain amount of appreciation for the song then. I think Maynard does a great job of capturing the confusion, excitement, and eventual devistation from losing one's grip on the alleged information.

I don't feel this kind of experience is exclusive to any one drug either, though I'm sure certain drugs would work better than others. Pretty much any sort of hallucinatory will do I would say. Or possibly just someone who's really drunk and/or really high or even just really sleep depravated. I myself have never been a drug user of any kind, yet I've had great moments of clarity while pushing myself to other physical extremes. In my cases as well, the moment of clarity fades the more focused I become in attempting to understand and retain it. It's a highly upsetting result. I freely admit I've never experienced the alien-abduction portion of the lyrics, or had friends dress up pretending to be aliens so they can anal rape me. Perhaps I'm not missing out all that much, or just don't have that great of friends. Take your pick.

As for the situation where I was observing somebody else attempt to explain their new-found understanding of life's ultimate meaning, I believe the person had used a couple mushrooms. As was par for the course too, he was also heavily intoxicated. So for those Beavis and Butthead types, let the re-enactments begin.

Jon08
05-19-2006, 02:28 PM
i've heard third eye countless times tabbed the base line. there are almost no similarities to the song. this is not recycled. it's completely new. they may have used similar riffs to old songs, but they're in a completely different light. and the similarities only occur because musicians tend to have a perfect view of music in their minds that gradually takes more and more shape over time. one thing i've learned as a composer is that it is completely moronic to throw away a good song because it sounds like something else. tool realized this, and because of it this is an original song. they didn't try to change certain riffs that sounded like old ones (and it's a stretch to compare them in the first place....)

HallsOfMandos
05-19-2006, 04:14 PM
Maybe this is a bit of a stretch, but suppose the references in this song to riffs, themes from other works is intended to represent the main character's brain buzzing and spinning with the information that 'they' gave to him (i.e. 'they' = tool, we are the main character, and the message can be summed up in all these other works by tool that are alluded to in this song).

The Let Down
05-20-2006, 01:04 AM
Overwhelmed is what you would be
If placed in my position.


Overwhelmed as one would be
Placed in my position

Is it so hard to get the lyrics correct? He might be saying If placed, but jesus fucking christ he says "as one would be" clear as fucking day.

Jorge
05-20-2006, 02:06 AM
I'm in total disbelief. You guys all love this song? Seriously? You're really not seeing all the key parts to this song that have been completely taken from other tool songs? Really? Or is it that you just don't care? Yes, Iíve seen all the threads noting "similarities" between songs. But that's not quite accurate. Because these aren't similarities, they're blatant rip-offs.

As a musician, guitar player, and sober person, let me take you on a very short and obvious journey to why this song isn't original. Instead of listing timing signatures or the notes being played, Iím just going to list the times. Listen to them side by side, and please, try to tell me you don't see how identical they are. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying, try to listen to what Iíve listened one after the other. Don't be trying to prove me wrong, just listen. And don't try to link the parts to what comes before or after, listen to them for what they are.

Rosetta Stoned 0:00-0:18 compared to H 0:00-0:21

Rosetta Stoned 2:25-2:45 compared to The Patient 4:42-5:14

Rosetta Stoned 3:00-3:50 compared to third Eye 9:55-11:17

Rosetta Stoned 6:04-7:04 compared to H 3:30-4:26

Rosetta Stoned 7:45-8:20 compared to The Grudge 7:38-8:03

And I'm pretty sure there's more. If that doesn't show you, I really don't know what to say. It's too profound to ignore: Rosetta Stoned is largely compiled of previously used riffs.

I refuse to believe that Tool would just recycle all these riffs. Taking the lyrics, it's easy to see how this song would be a joke. Add in all these lifted riffs. Add in all the fans thinking this is the most amazing and original tool song ever. Add in the sense of humor of the band.



Honestly are YOU serious? I am not by any means saying that there are no similarities, but to say they are identical is rediculous. NONE of those examples you gave us are identical. Not one. Your 1st, 2nd, and 5th examples are just crazy, I think you are joking but that's cool. As for your 3rd eye comparison, the two songs are in different time sigs and the notes being played are not the same. Since you play guitar maybe you should pick it up and give these songs a try so you realize they are definitely far from identical. Your H comparision... I wish I knew how to tab on here so I could show you the difference but I can't believe you can't hear it. The same notes are being played but does that make it the same? Don't rythm and tempo matter as well? Listen to all of your examples actually made me more aware of how different all these riffs are.

Madrid
05-20-2006, 06:00 PM
Good solid post.

Rosetta Stoned is a reflection. A reflection upon Tool's past. The things you hear as recycled are recycled but with a (good) twist.
This song is how they look back at their previous work (I bet someonce can find Opiate & Undertow links). The drugs promotion they did, the alien things they are interested in, the spiritual stuff, all is in this song......... That's important, I like it, even if there are 'old' things used.


I agree. When I listen to the song, I feel like I'm crashing through my past, experiencing all the "serious" things, the "real" things... in retrospect.

It's like experiencing a nihilistic awakening. That's the only way to describe it.
It feels dead serious one second, and totaly rediculous the next.

aicrag88
05-20-2006, 07:31 PM
Can i hear some more feedback on this? I've actually heard some interesting things from people talking about things such as this having an overall theme to connect it to other tool songs. Interesting concept, I'd like to hear your explanations why.

Cant you just come up with some ideas yourself, or do you need someone else to tell you how interesting this song should be to you ? Thats just sad, now YOU are the one whos reycling ideas. Stop bitching and go enjoy the music...

aschaefer04
05-20-2006, 07:43 PM
let's face it, people, adam isn't that talented of a guitarist, so it's obvious that his music won't be too diverse.

of course there will be similarities. did anyone notice that adam uses the same riff in wings for marie that he did in the Lateralus tour to fill time between songs?e

mikey6719
05-20-2006, 07:49 PM
let's face it, people, adam isn't that talented of a guitarist, so it's obvious that his music won't be too diverse.

of course there will be similarities. did anyone notice that adam uses the same riff in wings for marie that he did in the Lateralus tour to fill time between songs?e


EXACTLY! and DOES IT REALLY MATTER? Got lemon juice up in my eye.....

OGT from back in the day
05-20-2006, 08:16 PM
it is like walking in a hallway, if you walk in that hallway every day then you are bound to step in the same spot u have stepped before........who cares if it sounds like other songs? it is a great song, i dont care if it is "recycled" i only care if it is good or not

Jizzlobber
05-20-2006, 08:18 PM
the patient rif is in this song. thats for sure. the middle part in H is in this song and so as third eye. however i cant here the start of H nor can i here the grudge.

maybe there are more reference to other tool songs within this song. maybe this was the point of the song.

but why dont you just sit back listen to this great album.

and is it just me or does this album needs one more song. Tool need to make a double cd next time. this album just feels that its short of one song. Possibly because intensions feels like a filler

OGT from back in the day
05-20-2006, 08:22 PM
i agree
ya!!!! we have a halo fan in here, im glad im not the only one

Agent_Of_Chaos
05-20-2006, 11:18 PM
None of you could compose a song this kick ass, recycled or not, so stop bitching and enjoy it for the masterpiece it is.

La Eai Parach
05-21-2006, 01:07 AM
I am a new member here so I know my words carry little weight, but it seems as if some people use the left side of their brains just a little too much...It's music, not calculus..I can imagine some of the people here having sex with their gf's/wives and analyzing the time signature of their thrusts or even trying to thrust backwards to see if there's any hidden message within it..

on another note, I was talking to a friend today that said he heard some songs from 10k days and was disappointed that it sounds like the "same-old Tool"...I then proceeded to question him about his favorite band, Lamb of God. "Hmm, 3 albums they've made, same old blast beats, same palm muted guitar triplets, same gravelly voice...but I don't hear you complaining about them?" Just a thought.

"So crucify the ego, before it's far to late"

turn on. tune in. drop out.

Sudafed
05-21-2006, 08:01 AM
Do you not like a Reese Cup just because you've tasted chocolate and peanut butter before???

identitat soldat
05-21-2006, 10:25 AM
To original poster:

No.
Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.

HallsOfMandos
05-22-2006, 10:54 AM
@Sudafed: Best. Avatar. Ever.

But where is K.G?

weesper
05-29-2006, 02:33 AM
I'm thinking 2 things:

1. Why not have a vote on whether the absolute clear as day same riffs are there yes or no?

We'll start with the Third eye riff after about 3 minutes (since the Third eye concept is also referenced here, we'll do the others after)....

I cast my vote: YES it was recycled


And secondly, yes I am disappointed with them serving up these has-been issues of aliens and trip recalls. Back in the days, Tool was known for writing stuff that actually reflected upon stuff like 'I'm just following orders..' (Intolerance), the malignancy of addiction (Sober) and order issues that actually MATTER!

Now it seems Maynard has chosen to direct that energy towards APC and leave the Tool community to wander about absolutely hollow issues such as trip recalls etc. The album is good but that's because the rest of the band has written some kick-ass confusing time signatures; if only Maynard would've put in his share and written some lyrics about things that matter...

Gnome_Chomsky
05-29-2006, 04:30 PM
ARe you suggesting that a band can be good because they can roll dice in an alley and find time sigs?

slamminsalmon
05-29-2006, 04:33 PM
Good solid post.

Rosetta Stoned is a reflection. A reflection upon Tool's past. The things you hear as recycled are recycled but with a (good) twist.
This song is how they look back at their previous work (I bet someonce can find Opiate & Undertow links). The drugs promotion they did, the alien things they are interested in, the spiritual stuff, all is in this song.

Why?



Maynard at Lateralus. There where people searching for enlightment, holy track orders, spirituality, 2012, etc, etc on the Lateralus cd. In an interview Maynard ditched all alternate tracklistings. Maynard sees fans have took Lateralus out of context and one step too far.
Now he sings, he was the one who knew how the world would end, because fans where expecting that. But he forgot his pen. He is not the one and will never be and never was.
There is a lot of irony and sarcasm in this song. A pun at devout religious Lateralus followers (also at me ;) ).

This goes back to Vicarious. Vicarious starts as a song which sounds like a Lateralus song and then the alarm bell. An alarm for people to wake up, to get of the spiral and adress problems in the real world. Don't be on the spiral being ignorant for real life problem.

Besides that, Rosetta Stoned FUCKING ROCKS!!! That's important, I like it, even if there are 'old' things used.



not that you care, but this post alone gained my respect for you. very well put

Max T.
05-29-2006, 05:29 PM
Anyone can compare a part from Song A and another part from Song B and argue that they are legitimately similar/reused/identical. You act like Tool has failed to be God because you notice similarities. Even if there are similarities, which there are some, who cares? Do you think there is a band who has never reused certain ideas/concepts/sounds?
Pretty much every band out there in the modern music world has put out myriad songs that are extremely similar, to say the least. Even Dream Theater has a few more-than-obvious similarites in many of their songs, and you are bashing Tool for having some. Tool are one of the most creative, deviating, and innovational bands on today's music scene, so what's the big deal?

Max T.
05-29-2006, 05:43 PM
And secondly, yes I am disappointed with them serving up these has-been issues of aliens and trip recalls. Back in the days, Tool was known for writing stuff that actually reflected upon stuff like 'I'm just following orders..' (Intolerance), the malignancy of addiction (Sober) and order issues that actually MATTER!

Now it seems Maynard has chosen to direct that energy towards APC and leave the Tool community to wander about absolutely hollow issues such as trip recalls etc. The album is good but that's because the rest of the band has written some kick-ass confusing time signatures; if only Maynard would've put in his share and written some lyrics about things that matter...

Point 1: Actually, Maynard is just about finished with his APC project because he decided it was too much work to devote his time between the two groups, according to an interview with the band featured in Revolver magazine.

Point 2: Get your head out of your ass and listen to the rest of the album. Do any of these songs, despite one or two, relate to aliens or trip-recalls? Do none of these lyrics point you in the direction of "things that matter" and "much time devoted"?? Sometimes it takes Maynard as much as a month to write his lyrics. The rest of the band writes nearly all of the music before entering the studio, and this time they did this without his presence b/c he was touring with APC. That way they can focus strictly on the music before Maynard gives his input on his feelings with the work, and eventually they can all agree on where the music leads to next in the piece. So really, they are ALL putting in their share.

theprosperone
05-29-2006, 05:46 PM
if only Maynard would've put in his share and written some lyrics about things that matter...

Wow, I think that 95% of the lyrics in this album have completely went over your head.

Luosdasa
05-30-2006, 12:55 AM
After listening to this song more, i have changed my opinion of it.
I had previously though it was rather boring, and really diddnt warrent the time it consumed on the album.

Now i think its a total peice of shit, and would still be crap as a filler.
Meh, flame me if you will. and fair enough, i can respect, that somehow, you people like this song. Clearly your seeing something im not, because i cannot begin to describe to you how this song sends me to sleep... (well i probably could, it does it real fast)