10k Days vs Judith

[beyond]

"Fuck your lord, your christ."

Maybe Maynard has thought about his lyrics in the song "Judith," and has regretted using such an angry, hostile song to express his feelings for his mother.

Or maybe he did find some kind of faith in Christianity.

I am just amazed at all of the christian references in the entire album, especially coming from someone who "Wishes to see armageddon soon."

But it is quite a wonderful thing to say about one's mother.

I get shivers nearly everytime the song reaches "It's time now... my time now....."

It's just an amazing song.

[Mr Silver]

This song is beautiful.

So much passion; forgiveness; anger transmuted...
I'm totally in love with it.

I have to disagree with all these people saying "Maynard's gone Christian!!" etc.

I think he's just come into a good place. Forgiveness is divine in anybody's religious persuasion I think and to hear it expressed so beautifully...makes me cry sometimes when I hear it. There is still anger there too - anger at the religion that caused the wedge between them perhaps? I don't know...never met Maynard or his Mum. But I can hear some anger at God there...

I think Maynard will have a few questions for him if they ever meet :)

But it seems to me he has forgiven his mother if not the religion that took her.

"fetch me the spirit, the son and the father;
tell them their pillar of faith has ascended!"

beautiful.

[volfan911]

Did he forgive his mother, or did he finally realize that perhaps he instead is the one who needs forgiveness from her for his pessimistic view of her faith? I believe he may have realized that there are great and virtuous individuals who happen to be Christians and that many of them became the exceptional human beings that they are because of, not in spite of, their faith (particularly those who have had their faith tested by tragedy).

Perhaps that's just a realization that I would like to think Maynard has reached. He still seems terribly pessimistic towards not-so-extraordinary, everyday Christians. (I'm getting off on a tangent here, be warned)...But I'm of the opinion that while there are many hypocritical Christians who are lacking as human beings altogether, there are still a great number of good human beings who may not be into opening their third eye. Maynard has every right to hold such people in contempt, but I don't believe he's justified in doing so. (I think I should have started a new thread, forgive me :))

My grandmother comes to mind. One difference I can see between her and Maynard's mother is that my grandmother has never endured a severe physical tragedy. Yet she has always loved her family and friends unconditionally and been a great and caring woman. My point is that there are likely several people in Judith Keenan's congregation who are much like my grandmother - good people, but not particularly open-minded or extraordinary in regards to overcoming obstacles and quite stuck in their ways; and therefore deserving of being labeled hypocrites, at least according to Maynard. A part of me wishes that Maynard would just ease off a bit from being so judgemental.

Yet I can see where Maynard's coming from. I can identify because my lack of faith caused a rift between my father and I. And I have long resented religion because of it. But I eventually came to realize that religion is what you make of it. And like any set of beliefs (in a god, or in no god, or in any practice of any discipline), there are going to be good individuals who are worthy of respect, if not admiration, and those who are worthless, hypocritical fuck sticks. The challenge is not lumping them all together and being too judgemental of everyone as I feel that doing so ultimately only corrupts one's character.

Thoughts?

[martyr_02]

This song is beautiful.



But it seems to me he has forgiven his mother if not the religion that took her.

beautiful.


Why would he "forgive" his mother for being faithful? that would be one of the most arrogant things a song could say to his mother. I think he may have come to respect her faith, regardless of what he believes. I would admire anyone who stayed strong in their faith, instead of blaming their god, in the face of tragedy. He doesn't blame her for her faith, just as much as you would blame someone for liking a specific baseball team. I don't think he is going back to christianity or whatever, but the death of his mother must have shook him and forced him to consider it. Remember when the april fool's joke (was it last year or two years ago?) was that Maynard had rediscovered Jesus? Well maybe there might have been some truth to that. I think the quote was something like "Recent events have lead me to the rediscovery of Jesus". Not saying it wasn't all just a joke, just something to put in your mouth and chew on.

[TSarge]

This song is amazing, and I agree that Maynard's tone has changed since he wrote Judith.

I think the main theme of the song is his respect for his mother's steadfastedness in her christian persuasion. As a "pillar of faith" she never waivered in her belief despite the 27 years she lived in a wheelchair after her stroke.

In Judith he seems angry and resentful, I think he's gotten past that now.

*edit: And I don't believe he's gone Christian at all, though the song is quite introspective and telling of his own thoughts on religion.

[Mr Silver]

Why would he "forgive" his mother for being faithful?

Don't think he was angry with her for being faithful.

Angry because of the blind and dogmatic nature of her faith perhaps.

Again - don't know him or her. Just what I feel.

[incircles]

I just wonder what Judith Marie thought of the APC song, whether she understood his anger came from a place of love. I really hope she did.

[rockusJ]

Did he forgive his mother, or did he finally realize that perhaps he instead is the one who needs forgiveness from her for his pessimistic view of her faith? I believe he may have realized that there are great and virtuous individuals who happen to be Christians and that many of them became the exceptional human beings that they are because of, not in spite of, their faith (particularly those who have had their faith tested by tragedy).

Perhaps that's just a realization that I would like to think Maynard has reached. He still seems terribly pessimistic towards not-so-extraordinary, everyday Christians. (I'm getting off on a tangent here, be warned)...But I'm of the opinion that while there are many hypocritical Christians who are lacking as human beings altogether, there are still a great number of good human beings who may not be into opening their third eye. Maynard has every right to hold such people in contempt, but I don't believe he's justified in doing so. (I think I should have started a new thread, forgive me :))

My grandmother comes to mind. One difference I can see between her and Maynard's mother is that my grandmother has never endured a severe physical tragedy. Yet she has always loved her family and friends unconditionally and been a great and caring woman. My point is that there are likely several people in Judith Keenan's congregation who are much like my grandmother - good people, but not particularly open-minded or extraordinary in regards to overcoming obstacles and quite stuck in their ways; and therefore deserving of being labeled hypocrites, at least according to Maynard. A part of me wishes that Maynard would just ease off a bit from being so judgemental.

Yet I can see where Maynard's coming from. I can identify because my lack of faith caused a rift between my father and I. And I have long resented religion because of it. But I eventually came to realize that religion is what you make of it. And like any set of beliefs (in a god, or in no god, or in any practice of any discipline), there are going to be good individuals who are worthy of respect, if not admiration, and those who are worthless, hypocritical fuck sticks. The challenge is not lumping them all together and being too judgemental of everyone as I feel that doing so ultimately only corrupts one's character.

Thoughts?

Regarding your initial comment, Maynard's "bold suggestion" explains this for me. He asks his mother to tell her maker: " I never lived a lie, never took a life, but surely saved one." No question to me he has come to better understand and possibly become more spiritual (didn't say christian or religous--big difference).

[banxton11]

In Judith Maynard is not denouncing Jesus(Christainty) or God in its accepted form. That being it is practiced by peoples that are not hypocrites and do not use it for self righteousness. Maynard has said Judith is about empty faith, a faith untainted and unimpeded upon by outside elements. Not God or Jesus in general. "Fuck your god"...(your god being Judiths god?)

The negativity that comes from people following this album is fucking sad. Those people have unfortuniatly drawn conclusions about themselves from others and not their on minds.

Very cool transcending song. A lot of emotion.

[rocker_man1]

I think he has just had a couple years to accept his mothers death and the hipocricy of the people that called her friend