Similaritys With Roger Waters.

[kheldar80]

Does anyone else notice that this song is very similar to the Roger Waters song from "Amused to death" , "The Bravery of being out of range"
obviously not musicaly but themematicly. of course RW is talking about the Gulf war (Part One) being live on tv. but very similar.

[chonus]

yes. good call.

[The Dharma Bum]

Roger is not talking about the first gulf war, and he borrowed the idea from a book called Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman, but yes I did notice.

[kheldar80]

Roger is not talking about the first gulf war, and he borrowed the idea from a book called Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman, but yes I did notice.

ok.. so not talking about first gulf war... funny when the release date is really close to the first one and there are more than a few refrences like "Turn up the tv sound.. the war has started on the ground" and "Just Love those laser guided bombs There so good for righting wrongs"

not an arguement but with roger as well as tool there is Many ways to interpret the songs.

[The Dharma Bum]

Recording for Amused to death began in october of 1987, but after further research some lyrics were changed to reflect the Gulf War. As far as the simularities go, though, it goes much further than Vicarious. Wings one and two are riddled with floydian sounds, most notably echoes, but some of Animals, as well. Not to mention Right in Two, with Monkey killing Monkey which is simular to themes in Amused to Death. Btw: Roger borrowed that theme from 2001: A Space Oddissy

[Matt8]

im going to see roger waters in montreal september 21st. its gonna make my life. he is my god.

[BallsOfSatan]

Roger waters is brilliant. He IS pink floyd. i dont care what the other band members are doing. I dont think Tool would mind at all being compared to pink floyd. Just listen to dark side of the moon. that album was done in the early '70's and it still holds the test of time. I would say Tool is the pink floyd of our generation. If you could campare them to anyone at all i guess that would be it.

[Styx]

Does anyone else notice that this song is very similar to the Roger Waters song from "Amused to death" , "The Bravery of being out of range"
obviously not musicaly but themematicly. of course RW is talking about the Gulf war (Part One) being live on tv. but very similar.

Sure did! Thought about it immediately:

Tool:

"i need to watch things die from a good, safe distance"

Waters, Roger:

"just love those laser guided bombs
they're really great for righting wrongs
you hit the target and win the game from bars 3,000 miles away
we play the game with the bravery of being out of range"

It's spot on.

And what about the part in the Amused To Death title track where the visiting alien race found our species dead in front of television sets?

That's not even to mention the parallels with Amused To Death and "Right In Two," but I s'pose that's a different forum.

Seeing Roger on 09/16/06 for the second time. Can't wait!

[Filth Monger]

I also see the correlation to "Watching TV" also from "Amused to Death" in the lyrics of Vicarious.

[incircles]

I thought of Amused to Death immediately when I heard Right in Two ("The monkey looked up at the stars...") and then realized the Vicarious connection.

[Styx]

I thought of Amused to Death immediately when I heard Right in Two ("The monkey looked up at the stars...") and then realized the Vicarious connection.

Totally. Not to mention they both mention Eden.

Tool (Right In Two):

"don't these talking monkeys know that eden has enough to go around"

Roger (Perfect Sense Pt 1):

"man is a tool in the hands of the great god almighty
and they gave him command of a nuclear submarine
and sent him back in search of the garden of eden"

[Scrotophagus]

Some very smart person noticed this a month ago.

Similar theme to the Roger Waters album Amused to Death.

In this thread: http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?p=906447#post906447

(I was kidding about being smart)

[Cycloz]

Agreed, but also gonna throw this out there. After the Chicago show and the 2 hour ride back and still a bit buzzed I might add, threw the new disc in, put on my headphones and blasted it and man when 10,000 Days (Wings Pt.2) came on all I could think was that it seemed to have a real Floyd feel to it (at least the beginning/middle), which by no means is a bad thing.

[Neil]

Amazingly I felt a very strong Waters connection throughout this album but not in the places you mentioned.

[tomhet]

Roger waters is brilliant. He IS pink floyd.

I can't agree with you, Dark Side of the moon was musically written by the four of them. I think the early 70's were good times for the Floyd because they worked as a team. They screw it up with their colossal egos.

Is it just me or the solo projects of Roger Waters are boring? No offense, but I find them uninspired, just like the two last floydian albums.

[Filth Monger]

I never found Roger's solo work boring, I may have over-listened it, but I wouldn't classify it boring. And early 70's Floyd found their success on the back of Alan Parson's production. Roger wrote all the lyrics and did almost all the arrangements from Dark Side until The Wall when they brought in Michael Kamen. So I feel he WAS Pink Floyd.

[Blanket_509]

Gilmour sang the mojority of Floyd's vocals. He is "the sound" of Floyd. Waters wrote great lyrics. I think Floyd simply cannot be Floyd without all 4 original members.

Edit: I was going to correct the above typo, but I think MOJOrity is a much cooler word, so I'm keeping it.

[Wretched]

Gilmour sang the mojority of Floyd's vocals. He is "the sound" of Floyd. Waters wrote great lyrics. I think Floyd simply cannot be Floyd without all 4 original members.

Edit: I was going to correct the above typo, but I think MOJOrity is a much cooler word, so I'm keeping it.

not really.

Floyd is all of them, though, I agree with that. Singing and vocals went to both, but Roger Waters did most of it.

[Filth Monger]

Well, all 4 original members would be without Gilmour and with Syd Barrett...

[bellamadia]

Well, all 4 original members would be without Gilmour and with Syd Barrett...

I was gonna say the same thing. While Syd was a genius in his own right, I can't imagine where Pink Floyd would be without David Gilmour. Would Pink Floyd have morphed over time from where they were with Piper to say Dark Side if Syd had been in the entire time and not David? I kind of think they wouldn't have. Not to mention, the fued between David and Roger was bad enough, but if Syd had remained "sane" I think Roger and him would've had it out before they even made it to Dark Side because I don't think Syd would have "allowed" Roger to have as much control as he had through much of the 70s. That said, Roger is a fuckin genius too. I just think it's not PF without BOTH of them (and Nick and Wright)

Pink Floyd will ALWAYS be my absolute favorite band of all time, however TOOL is right up there, and I believe it's because of their similarities. It's funny but before I joined this site a month or so ago I had a conversation with my fiance about the similarities of PF and TOOL and I thought I was alone in my thinking. I am so glad to see how many people out there feel the same.

[bellamadia]

Recording for Amused to death began in october of 1987, but after further research some lyrics were changed to reflect the Gulf War. As far as the simularities go, though, it goes much further than Vicarious. Wings one and two are riddled with floydian sounds, most notably echoes, but some of Animals, as well. Not to mention Right in Two, with Monkey killing Monkey which is simular to themes in Amused to Death. Btw: Roger borrowed that theme from 2001: A Space Oddissy

This is what I heard also. As most of us know Roger was always OBSESSED with war in general.

[pork chops]

not really.

Floyd is all of them, though, I agree with that. Singing and vocals went to both, but Roger Waters did most of it.


actually, early floyd the vocals were sang mostly by Gilmour and Wright. roger waters didn't really lend his vocal stylings until animals, and even then they were split pretty evenly between Gilmour and Waters. i mean he sang a little bit like on set the controls and others but not that much.

[Styx]

actually, early floyd the vocals were sang mostly by Gilmour and Wright. roger waters didn't really lend his vocal stylings until animals, and even then they were split pretty evenly between Gilmour and Waters. i mean he sang a little bit like on set the controls and others but not that much.

"Grantchester Meadows" and "If" are awesome early Roger-sung songs, by the way. Gorgeous stuff.

Then again, so is Dave's "Green Is The Colour" and "Fat Old Sun."

They both lended their individual, unique talents to that band that made the post-Syd Pink Floyd sound what it was. They have equal importance.

Although of all of the solo material, Roger's "Amused To Death" is definitely the closest to the original. To my ears, at least.

[The Dharma Bum]

Roger waters is brilliant. He IS pink floyd. .
Sorry, but Syd Barret is Pink Floyd. He may have left after the first album (with some writing on the second) But much of what Roger wrote during the Hey Day of Floyd was inspired by Syd. "when the band you're in starts singing different tunes/I'll see you on the darkside of the moon" Do I even need to mention Shine on you crazy diamond, or wish you were here? Even The Wall is about the transition floyd made after Syd. This is particularly evident in the Movie. Take note of how "Pink" is a free-flowing Hippy before his meltdown where he turns into the militant narcissis. This exactly mirrors the change in Pink Floyds music From Piper at the Gates of Dawn to the classic Floyd of Darkside/Wish/Animals...


Now on topic (sort of) I think the biggest simularity between Maynard and Roger lies in the impact thier Mother and Father (respectely) had on thier lives. Roger's relationship[ with his father is mired in War, hence the imagery, and his strong statements on War and politics. Maynard's relationship with his mother is tangled up in reigion and faith so his lyrics are riddled with images of reigion and faith.

I was a huge Pink Floyd fan growing up (often pouring over the lyrics, like many here do with tool) and the thing that appealed to me about tool was that they reminded me of floyd, the music, the stage show, the way the band presents itself, everything. The bonus was that they were far heavier (musically) than Floyd. I have always loved Floyd, but I have an aggressive streak that they never managed to feed. From the beginning, I have thought of tool as the new Floyd, and I can't think of a better compliment (From me).

[The Dharma Bum]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dharma Bum
Recording for Amused to death began in october of 1987, but after further research some lyrics were changed to reflect the Gulf War. As far as the simularities go, though, it goes much further than Vicarious. Wings one and two are riddled with floydian sounds, most notably echoes, but some of Animals, as well. Not to mention Right in Two, with Monkey killing Monkey which is simular to themes in Amused to Death. Btw: Roger borrowed that theme from 2001: A Space Oddissy




This is what I heard also. As most of us know Roger was always OBSESSED with war in general.
I forgot the one song that it really reminds me of is "One of these days"

[pork chops]

Even The Wall is about the transition floyd made after Syd. This is particularly evident in the Movie. Take note of how "Pink" is a free-flowing Hippy before his meltdown where he turns into the militant narcissis. This exactly mirrors the change in Pink Floyds music From Piper at the Gates of Dawn to the classic Floyd of Darkside/Wish/Animals...





the wall is not about that at all. the wall came about after roger waters spit on a fan during the arena tour for animals. he was so disheartend by what he had become and how he felt seperated from the fans because of everything. that is the whole concept of the wall, every event in his life that led him to build a wall around himself. it has nothing to do with syd

[The Dharma Bum]

the wall is not about that at all. the wall came about after roger waters spit on a fan during the arena tour for animals. he was so disheartend by what he had become and how he felt seperated from the fans because of everything. that is the whole concept of the wall, every event in his life that led him to build a wall around himself. it has nothing to do with syd
Ok, I mispoke, no the album isn't ABOUT that. What I was trying to do was continue the theme of Syd's influence in Roger's music. Syd is definately one of the bricks. Roger is using images from his life through out his life on The Wall. It is part bigraphy of Roger part bigraphy of The Band. He uses "Pink" as a fictional character to dramatize the themes. I've listened to every Floyd record (not just the classic albums everyone is so fond of) numerous times, and when taken as whole it becomes more apperant. Roger is still pretty much doing the Same thing he did on the Wall to this day. I love his music, but he's kind of a one trick pony.

If you still don't believe me, read "a Saucer Full of Secrets: The Pink Floyd Bigraphy" and "The Wall: The making of an album" and while your at it listen through the entire catalog of music, and be sure to watch the movie, you'll see it. Either way, I'm not trying to start an argument, This is what I hear after more than two decades of listening. If you hear something different, cool.

[pork chops]

Ok, I mispoke, no the album isn't ABOUT that. What I was trying to do was continue the theme of Syd's influence in Roger's music. Syd is definately one of the bricks. Roger is using images from his life through out his life on The Wall. It is part bigraphy of Roger part bigraphy of The Band. He uses "Pink" as a fictional character to dramatize the themes. I've listened to every Floyd record (not just the classic albums everyone is so fond of) numerous times, and when taken as whole it becomes more apperant. Roger is still pretty much doing the Same thing he did on the Wall to this day. I love his music, but he's kind of a one trick pony.

If you still don't believe me, read "a Saucer Full of Secrets: The Pink Floyd Bigraphy" and "The Wall: The making of an album" and while your at it listen through the entire catalog of music, and be sure to watch the movie, you'll see it. Either way, I'm not trying to start an argument, This is what I hear after more than two decades of listening. If you hear something different, cool.


i'm not going to get into a debate over floyd with you. i have listened to the entire catalog of music. while it is true that syd may represent a brick, the wall is in no way about him. it has nothing to do with him, unlike wish you were here.

[The Dharma Bum]

So you ignored the first sentence and the last sentence, as well?

[BallsOfSatan]

Sorry, but Syd Barret is Pink Floyd. He may have left after the first album (with some writing on the second) But much of what Roger wrote during the Hey Day of Floyd was inspired by Syd.


First of all you dont need to apologize. secondly, you know what I meant in the first place. Roger Waters was the creative force behind the classics Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall. Barrett was a wing-nut as everybody knows and their early music pales in comparison to the later waters/floyd music. I mean get real... see emily play? those old syd barrett songs sound like nursery rymes. My opinion is that Barrett was little more than a hindrance. Pink Floyd's music may have never flourished with him around.

[Neil]

David gilmour owns Roger Waters. Discuss...

[mike09]

David gilmour owns Roger Waters. Discuss...

Musicially, yes. Songwriting-wise, absolutely not.

[Blanket_509]

Some of you guys are giving Syd too much credit. He's not that good of a guitar player (Gilmour taught him most of what he knew on the axe) and his voice annoys the shit out of me. Granted, he wrote good lyrics, but he only played on one mediocre album. I'd even go so far as to say that Piper sucked (musically). The "Floyd signature sound" did not even begin to take shape until Meddle. Floyd would have never been big without Gilmour. And yes, I'm sticking to my original statement that Gilmour did most of the singing.

[mike09]

Some of you guys are giving Syd too much credit. He's not that good of a guitar player (Gilmour taught him most of what he knew on the axe) and his voice annoys the shit out of me. Granted, he wrote good lyrics, but he only played on one mediocre album. I'd even go so far as to say that Piper sucked (musically). The "Floyd signature sound" did not even begin to take shape until Meddle. Floyd would have never been big without Gilmour. And yes, I'm sticking to my original statement that Gilmour did most of the singing.

Floyd never would've been big without Waters. He was the brains behind the band.

[Blanket_509]

Floyd never would've been big without Waters. He was the brains behind the band.


I agree. I never said anything to take credit away from Waters. Just that the sound wouldn't have been the same without Gilmour. In Floyd's case, I think the whole was far greater than the sum of its parts.

[Chioa Khan]

My Opinion -- for what it's worth:

Floyd never would have been what they were in the long run (i.e post "Dark Side of The Moon") without Gilmore.

Roger Waters was brilliant, but was unable to reconsile his issues through his music, and hence stagnated artistically (as is evident, at least to me, in "The Final Cut"). Incidentally, this could be viewes as one of the reasonse Tool's music 'evloves' from album to album...

Syd Barret should not be ignored in his influence on Pink Floyd as he was great, even Gilmore (his replacement in the earlier days) will attest to that. However, his role with The Pink Floyd was not a long one (the reasons for which are beyond the scope of this discussion) and whilst important, was not long-standing.

So, in my opinion, there are similarities between the message in 10,000 Days and Roger Waters' work (and much of what Pink Floyd created), but I feel the intimations are profoundly different. Waters was obsessed with what could have/should have been, whereas Tool's work has a spark of hope for what could be.

At least, that's my interpretation. Take it as you will.

[Chioa Khan]

Incidentally, I'm a PF fan -- and have been since I can remember 1986ish) -- and have also been a Tool fan since 1998. This is largely irrespective to this discussion, but does give background to my perspective.

Also, whilst really enjoying everything Water did up until he left PF, his solo efforts always felt like they were missing something in their insight (e.g. Radio K.O.A.S.).

[mike09]

I agree. I never said anything to take credit away from Waters. Just that the sound wouldn't have been the same without Gilmour. In Floyd's case, I think the whole was far greater than the sum of its parts.

I gotcha. To me, Waters presents the originality, the concepts, the songwriting, the strongs lyrics. Gilmour represents the musical quality, the catchy melodies, etc.

I like The Final Cut a lot more than I like A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell. The Final Cut is a very bleak, almost disturbing at times, album. There isn't a lot of catchy melodies to it, so it's very much an aquired taste. It takes time to get into. The post-Waters albums just come off as mediocre to me. They have the talent, but it just seems to me like they didn't have the direction or ideas to push them along. To me, Floyd was at their best when all the band members worked together. Echoes is a beautiful song.

[Blanket_509]

Meddle is still my favorite Floyd album. Certainly more raw than, and not as epic as Dark Side, Animals, or The Wall. But A Pillow of Winds, Fearless, and Echoes are three of my favorite songs of all time. I even started to record and acoustic cover of Echoes...

http://www.personal.psu.edu/eja144/echoes2.mp3

[mike09]

Meddle is still my favorite Floyd album. Certainly more raw than, and not as epic as Dark Side, Animals, or The Wall. But A Pillow of Winds, Fearless, and Echoes are three of my favorite songs of all time. I even started to record and acoustic cover of Echoes...

http://www.personal.psu.edu/eja144/echoes2.mp3

That's a really good cover! Good work.

[infamia]

Does anyone else notice that this song is very similar to the Roger Waters song from "Amused to death" , "The Bravery of being out of range"
obviously not musicaly but themematicly. of course RW is talking about the Gulf war (Part One) being live on tv. but very similar.

the do have a very similar theme, nice catch!

[ladycommish]

Pink Floyd will ALWAYS be my absolute favorite band of all time, however TOOL is right up there, and I believe it's because of their similarities.

.

[æmoeba•°·.]

Tool's influence mainly...is Pink Floyd...

[bwood99x]

I can't agree with you, Dark Side of the moon was musically written by the four of them. I think the early 70's were good times for the Floyd because they worked as a team. They screw it up with their colossal egos.

Is it just me or the solo projects of Roger Waters are boring? No offense, but I find them uninspired, just like the two last floydian albums.

my thoughts exactly...waters is pink floyd and is great, well listen to the final cut...great shit right?

pink floyd is pretty much my favorite band...but i give alot of credit to gilmoure where alot of people give it to waters

[bwood99x]

Gilmour sang the mojority of Floyd's vocals. He is "the sound" of Floyd. Waters wrote great lyrics. I think Floyd simply cannot be Floyd without all 4 original members.

Edit: I was going to correct the above typo, but I think MOJOrity is a much cooler word, so I'm keeping it.

well then gilmoure wouldnt be in there.....have to add a psycho too

[rogerdoger]

There is a big similarity in the themes. I noticed that after the first few times of listening to it.

[Blanket_509]

well then gilmoure wouldnt be in there.....have to add a psycho too


Yeah my mistake. I always forget about the "Syd era". The music just sounded so different, I can't even consider them the same band in my head.

[BlindVisionary]

Ok, Pink Floyd or King Crimson :D

KC gets my vote

[BallsOfSatan]

Meddle is still my favorite Floyd album. Certainly more raw than, and not as epic as Dark Side, Animals, or The Wall. But A Pillow of Winds, Fearless, and Echoes are three of my favorite songs of all time. I even started to record and acoustic cover of Echoes...

http://www.personal.psu.edu/eja144/echoes2.mp3

Jumpin Jesus! that's fantastic! I wish I could do stuff like that. great work man.

By the way...Have you seen the film "Pink Floyd at Pompeii"? There is a lot of music and footage from that era of Floyd. It's a bit old and psychedelic, but really cool nonetheless.

[tonedef]

I like The Final Cut a lot more than I like A Momentary Lapse of Reason?
really...final is like way down there in terms of their great albums...momentary is up.

[Blanket_509]

Jumpin Jesus! that's fantastic! I wish I could do stuff like that. great work man.

By the way...Have you seen the film "Pink Floyd at Pompeii"? There is a lot of music and footage from that era of Floyd. It's a bit old and psychedelic, but really cool nonetheless.

Hey thanks man. I usually stick to recording original stuff, but sometimes I need to do a cover just to kind of ground myself. If you're interested in any of my originals check out my myspace... http://www.myspace.com/tedkaranda

There are 4 songs up there right now, but I have about 35 total that I'v recorded over the past 3 years, so I rotate them every now and then.

As for Live in Pompeii...yes. wow.

[RedMetalSox]

When the bass kicks in at 1:04 on Jambi...the first thing I thought of was Floyd, you can't deny that it sounds like The Wall...