How fucked up is humanity

[PhillyBoyTempe]

My thoughts to this song: I think the lyrics are pretty self explanitory is stating that people, especially in this country are so addicted to violence, yet we are completely two faced in doing so. We watch the news and they report that 15 soldiers died in a massive explosion, but the next minute we focus on who won a certain sporting event. "Frown out your once face, but with the other stare like a junkie into the t.v...."

[Loveboat Captain]

It's about not repressing things. We need violence. We have a need for the dark things in life and if we don't experience these in a controlled fashion then we will kill each other.

[4degrees_under_fire]

It's about not repressing things. We need violence. We have a need for the dark things in life and if we don't experience these in a controlled fashion then we will kill each other.

Maybe so, but that same need for the dark things drives us to kill each other. Some of us can ignore that call through the news, sports, video games, etc., but others heed it and follow through. No matter what we do, humankind will always be a violent people. These "dark things" not only drive us to kill, but is also the source of our morbid curiosity- the very reason we like to hear about the 15 soldiers who were just blown up, or hear about how someone killed their kids, whether or not we're willing to admit it.

[Loveboat Captain]

Maybe so, but that same need for the dark things drives us to kill each other. Some of us can ignore that call through the news, sports, video games, etc., but others heed it and follow through. No matter what we do, humankind will always be a violent people. These "dark things" not only drive us to kill, but is also the source of our morbid curiosity- the very reason we like to hear about the 15 soldiers who were just blown up, or hear about how someone killed their kids, whether or not we're willing to admit it.

As Marilyn Manson said, there were no magazines, tv, rock'n'roll music when Cain bashed his brothers brains out because of BASIC HUMAN DESIRE.

I don't beleive that this song is about being above human and looking down. I think it's about dealing with being human. Dealing with the dark desires and embracing them. Theres no light without darkness and vice versa. Simply ignoring human desire is repression. Repression manifests itself in fangerous ways.

[4degrees_under_fire]

As Marilyn Manson said, there were no magazines, tv, rock'n'roll music when Cain bashed his brothers brains out because of BASIC HUMAN DESIRE. I don't beleive that this song is about being above human and looking down. I think it's about dealing with being human.

PRECISELY!! This may not be what God had intended when He created us, but it sure as hell is how we've turned out. Every book you- or anyone else- see or read on a daily basis has some form of violence in it. It always happens, and it always will.

Dealing with the dark desires and embracing them. Theres no light without darkness and vice versa. Simply ignoring human desire is repression. Repression manifests itself in fangerous ways.

"Embracing them?" I don't know if I would go so far as to say that, but more to accept it as a part of who we are. Since it is bound to happen regardless of what we do, we cannot afford to ignore. If we cannot ignore it, then accept it. It is who we are. Period.

[Loveboat Captain]

And you think that humanity is flawed because of this?

[4degrees_under_fire]

Not soley because of this. Greed, lust, jealousy, etc. all have a part in it. The violent aspect, however, is what we hear about the most because it is more commonly reported about than any of the others. I am not saying to completely disregard it. That would be a very stupid idea. All I am saying is that we can learn more about ourselves and each other by accepting it as a part of who we are, not by embracing it. IMO, embracing the "dark side", so to speak, is what drives some people to kill, to steal, to rape. According to the Bible, humanity has been flawed ever since the Apple from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was devoured by Eve and, later, by Adam as well. Cain is an excellent example of that.

It is, however, our mindset about various issues that truly makes us flawed. Instead of focusing on the good, we focus on the bad- the murders, the scandals and the wars, for instance. Here in Illinois, one of the biggest headlines for the past three months was the George Ryan "Hired Truck" scandal. Do you know why this is? It is because the "bad" stuff is what we're interested in reading about in the paper or watching on the news. Sure, the good stuff is nice every now and then, but the bad catches our attention for longer and a hell of a lot faster. So tell me, do you agree with this mindset, that bad is better than good?

[rageboy]

I agree with the above post as a whole, but i don't like the mindset. also, if any of you have seen bowling for columbine, please comment. this song actually reminded me a lot of that documentary. and moore mentions that part of the reason there's so many homicides in america could be that there is so much fear put forth through media in the US. Outside this country there is still all the violence but not nearly the same amount of real-life aggression. What i got out of the song was almost annoyance towards violence sells, mostly from the "We won't give pause until the blood is flowin'
Neither the brave nor bold
Will write us the story so
We won't give pause until the blood is flowin'"
Any thoughts on right or wrong on that point?

[civdis24]

i can't stand bowling for columbine. Michael Moore is a lying hypocritical extremist liberal sack of shit. he may have had a reasonable point about fear in the media and whatnot but otherwise that documentary is so full of lies and stretched truths. It is a prime example of manipulative liberal propaganda. I think that Tool should never be compared to anythign that spews out of Michael Moore's mouth. Just on principle alone.

[submachine]

Michael Moore is a lying hypocritical extremist liberal sack of shit..

lol, its so true.

Mayn is telling it like it is, he's not bitching about it.

Follow his example, phillyboy.

[bitter_enigma]

i can't stand bowling for columbine. Michael Moore is a lying hypocritical extremist liberal sack of shit. he may have had a reasonable point about fear in the media and whatnot but otherwise that documentary is so full of lies and stretched truths. It is a prime example of manipulative liberal propaganda. I think that Tool should never be compared to anythign that spews out of Michael Moore's mouth. Just on principle alone.

Let's transpose this a bit.

President Bush:
Lying? check
Hypocritical? check
Extremist? check
Liberal? nope (because it's wrong to care about people)
sack of shit? double check

Adminstration full of lies and stretched truths? check
Manipulative propaganda? check

You are obviously taking the piss. There is no way a person could be that stupid, unless they are brainwashed, to say that liberal forces are trying to manipulate you with their propaganda. Sure, some of it is propaganda, but EVERYONE USES PROPAGANDA. Big deal.

What about news coverage like FOX and CNN and movies like United 93? I supoose they just state the facts so you don't have to worry about those crazy, tree-hugging, peace-loving, hippy, extremist, lefty, communist, pinky liberals manipulating you in any way.

Thank God you haven't been manipulated. You definetely sound like you've made up your own mind and are not at all regurgitating a misguided and narrow-minded right-wing reaction. Hey, sorry about that long post, you're probably late to an NRA meeting or something.

[civdis24]

to bitter_enigma....

wow that was harsh, and quite presumptious as well. I happen not to be narrow-minded, right-wing, a Bush supporter, or an NRA member and I happen to like trees. You are an asshole

However, you are correct about propaganda. It surrounds us. I simply stated that Michael Moore takes a very manipulative approach in his "documentary". It is propaganda with minimal basis in fact.

Moral of the story: Think for yourself, question authority.

[solidabyss]

speak for yourselves

[prater]

Michael Moore is not trying to manipulate anyone, he's just a fucktard. The guy after all did blame Manson partly for columbine, as well as the NRA. This in my mind is inexcusable, while I don't like all of Manson's work, he is in no way responsible for two douchebags killing their classmates, and themselves. After all I'm sure most of us here have listened to Jerk Off a few times, you don't see us out shooting people. If one of us did though, good ole Michael Moore would go after Tool next. I'm not saying he's right or he's wrong, I just feel his arguements are weak, he could do alot better job were he not such a fucktard.

As for the politics I'll let you guys duke that one out yourselves, I learned a long time ago that

A. No arguement over political views is ever won, or over for that matter.
And
B. It is those differences in political views and views in general that make this country such a great place to live, regardless of who the president is.

Oh and in my opinion, Maynard is not singling himself out when he says "Why can't "WE" just admit it." We're all guilty of it, not just everyone but Tool and its die hard fans. It sucks, but on the same note I've seen several war veterans who are no longer thrilled by that shit. So maybe being sheltered from it, or never having to fight for ourselves could be the source of some of the fascination...Just a thought.

Happy Trails.

[MarthFTW]

Let's transpose this a bit.

President Bush:
Lying? check


If I were forced to go, I would guess that most of the things people have accused him of lying about were actually well-meaning missteps on his part due to his incompetence and profound lack of political understanding. I could be wrong.

Hypocritical? check

Probably. I can't think of a specific way, though.

Extremist? check

Pssh, I wish. Every goddamn thing the man does is communism disguised as evangelical conservatism. I don't see how people swallow this shit. Record-level budgets, expanding government programs, well-intentioned corporate restrictions, pork-barrel spending, Patriot Acts, overzealous security precautions, blah blah blah. That social security jazz sounded OK but I guess he gave up on it, perhaps because it wasn't communist enough. In addition, the ridiculous reasons he apprently got voted in for ("moral values") he has all but ignored for 6 years. If I were republican, I would upset that he wasn't republican enough. Beyond that, I don't think he has enough balls to be extremist anything.

Liberal? nope (because it's wrong to care about people)

See above. I wish he wasn't. He doesn't sell himself as one, which appears to be the only thing people care about.

sack of shit? double check

Maybe, but so were Kerry and Gore. 2008 will be more promising I think. (hope)

Adminstration full of lies and stretched truths? check

Give me an administration that's not. The Jimmy Carter administration maybe, hehe, lotta good that did them.

Manipulative propaganda? check

Again, this is all over the place on both sides and has been for probably ever. It'll stop when people stop responding to it.

You are obviously taking the piss. There is no way a person could be that stupid, unless they are brainwashed, to say that liberal forces are trying to manipulate you with their propaganda. Sure, some of it is propaganda, but EVERYONE USES PROPAGANDA. Big deal.

It's a huge deal. I will not support partisan tribal wars. I didn't vote in the last election, I didn't vote in the one before it and I will not vote until somebody gives me a reason to vote for them other than a genuine smile and the side of the fence they're in bed with.

What about news coverage like FOX and CNN and movies like United 93? I supoose they just state the facts so you don't have to worry about those crazy, tree-hugging, peace-loving, hippy, extremist, lefty, communist, pinky liberals manipulating you in any way.

Have you SEEN United 93? It may be one of the only things to come out of this tragedy that's not manipulative propaganda. It is not political in any way, and is a complete (and shocking) breath of fresh air.

And CNN being right-slanted? Give me a break. WATCH THE STATION. Watch Anderson Cooper 360 one time.

Thank God you haven't been manipulated. You definetely sound like you've made up your own mind and are not at all regurgitating a misguided and narrow-minded right-wing reaction. Hey, sorry about that long post, you're probably late to an NRA meeting or something.

Who's brainwashed? You live in a world in which a rebellious minority of caring brilliant liberals are valiantly fighting the oppression and robotic evil perpetuated by a collective of shrouded, red-eyed conspiracists. Glorification and villification are the heart of propaganda.

[bitter_enigma]

Of course, it is entirely possible to mistake the truth for propaganda when it is so easily categorised by others as such. Tool is being used by certain people as propaganda as much as Moore, Bush and FOX News are being used for/are using propaganda.

Throwing around the "think for yourself" motto doesn't mean anything, except that you are very good at repeating stuff. A real thinker doesn't need to subscribe themselves to such meaningless rhetoric. Otherwise, you are just the same as the people who say "If you are not with us, you are against us" etc.

I also find it incredibly amusing that anything anti-Bush and, to a lesser extent anti-right-wing, immediately earns the tag of propaganda, yet it's never associated with the lies and misinformation presented by Bush and his administration.

[civdis24]

Throwing around the "think for yourself" motto doesn't mean anything, except that you are very good at repeating stuff. A real thinker doesn't need to subscribe themselves to such meaningless rhetoric.

Its not meaningless. I think most people here, myself included, strive to continuously question everything and think for ourselves. Isn't that almost fundamental to developing meaningful thought, ideas, and opinions?

[champion]

Michael Moore is not trying to manipulate anyone, he's just a fucktard. The guy after all did blame Manson partly for columbine, as well as the NRA. This in my mind is inexcusable, while I don't like all of Manson's work, he is in no way responsible for two douchebags killing their classmates, and themselves. After all I'm sure most of us here have listened to Jerk Off a few times, you don't see us out shooting people. If one of us did though, good ole Michael Moore would go after Tool next. I'm not saying he's right or he's wrong, I just feel his arguements are weak, he could do alot better job were he not such a fucktard.

If you think Michael Moore blamed the NRA and Marilyn Manson for Columbine, you were either watching a different movie, or have no idea what you were watching. It's completely the opposite. He's basically taking it to the media who blamed "rock music" and other forms of media for the shootings. Moore is just saying we can blame anything. He noted what happened with the NRA, and he noted that "the boys went bowling before they went to school; is it then logical to blame BOWLING for the shootings?" He's making a point about them taking responsibility for their own actions.

And he interviewed Marilyn Manson for a good ten minutes on why blaming him is easy to do, but completely illogical.

Were you really watching?

[4degrees_under_fire]

[QUOTE=rageboy]I agree with the above post as a whole, but i don't like the mindset.[QUOTE]

Neither do I, but Loveboat seems to have. That's why I was bringing that whole thing up. However, with they way the media has operated- probably for as long as it's been around- we hear more about the bad than good. The media interests us with it and, as a result, desensitises us to it. Half the time, we don't care about the little boy who accidentally shot himself in the head for longer than a moment or two, but if our favorite basketball team lost it's game, we're pissed off for the next three hours.

As of yet, though, I haven't seen bowling for Columbine, but I probably will sometime in the near future.

[champion]

I think it makes some nice points, to be honest,

[rageboy]

i agree wholeheartedly with the above five posts. The fourth and fifth up (about free thinking and propaganda) are almost contradictory, but more a difference in opinion about wording. same ideas.

[rageboy]

If I were forced to go, I would guess that most of the things people have accused him of lying about were actually well-meaning missteps on his part due to his incompetence and profound lack of political understanding. I could be wrong.
...
Pssh, I wish. Every goddamn thing the man does is communism disguised as evangelical conservatism. I don't see how people swallow this shit. Record-level budgets, expanding government programs, well-intentioned corporate restrictions, pork-barrel spending, Patriot Acts, overzealous security precautions, blah blah blah. That social security jazz sounded OK but I guess he gave up on it, perhaps because it wasn't communist enough. In addition, the ridiculous reasons he apprently got voted in for ("moral values") he has all but ignored for 6 years. If I were republican, I would upset that he wasn't republican enough. Beyond that, I don't think he has enough balls to be extremist anything.
...
See above. I wish he wasn't. He doesn't sell himself as one, which appears to be the only thing people care about.
...


Communism to an extent. Real communism isn't actually about government control. That's actually what right wing government has turned into. Most of what he's spending on isn't programs to better our nation, which is what the liberal side seems to be leaning towards, though no Democrat administration so far has done a good job of that either. Most of his spending is on the army and what not...PATRIOT act, too. Point being, he's not really a liberal the way I see liberal. To me, liberal is "moral values" and republican is make everyone the same and subjective...which is what communism is viewed as, even though it's not. (Read the communist manifesto, you'll see what I mean.)

[waffel]

My thoughts to this song: I think the lyrics are pretty self explanitory

whats the point of the thread? we know what the song is about, jesus.

[rageboy]

whats the point of the thread? we know what the song is about, jesus.

was that the only post you looked at? There's already more than a few takes on this up here and i'm sure there's a million other ways to interpret it. The lyrics are pretty obvious, if you take them literally. The point is to think about it and what it means...as in what you should do about it, or what it's driving at. First question from me, is there any sarcasm in the song and if so what? What is he saying when he talks about the brave and the bold? And lastly, this post is titled how fucked up is humanity, not what does the song mean.

[Ninja]

I don't know that the meaning of the lyrics supports an acceptance of this dark side of humanity, necessarily. I read into the lyrics at once a call for acknowledgement ("Credulous at best your desire to believe in angels in the hearts of men. But pull your head on out..."), but also disdain for the reality that is the "need to watch things die".

[Crucify the Ego]

MarthFTW, it doesn't work to justify this administrations lies by saying all previous administrations have done the same thing. That type of attitude is exactly why the bastards are getting away with whatever they want and why future administrations will be able to also.
My two cents on the "Bowling for Columbine" discussion....i thought it was an extremely unbiased and objective film that just tried to answer the question, "Why does America have substantially more domestic murders then any other country?" He posed the question of our gun laws. But that didn't work because it's just as simple to get guns in Canada and most other countries. He posed the question of our rock music and violent videogames, but that didn't add up because these things are just as popular in other countries as well. By the end of the movie the only difference he saw between America and others was our extremely violent media that's keeping us all paranoid that our own neighbors are out to get us.
P.S. The Patriot act took away our right to a speedy and public trial (if the government considers you a terrorist). There's battles going on every day for our right to free speech. But IF THEY TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS WE ARE FUCKED AND COMPLETELY POWERLESS!!! This is what Hitler did, when the citizens don't have their own guns, but only government officials can have them, how can we fight back against things we find wrong? Remember that, despite what they say, it will not be for our own protection, it will just be taking away arguably our most important freedom.

[RidetheRedshift]

It's about not repressing things. We need violence. We have a need for the dark things in life and if we don't experience these in a controlled fashion then we will kill each other.


I'm not really taking a stand in one way or the other regarding the analysis of this song. True art is all things simultaneously...one. But what I do want to comment to is this 'need for dark things'.

If I were to recommend one book on this aspect it would be Iron John by Robert Bly. Yes we need warriors! We need warriors to protect our women and children. In short our future. However the media is playing people in this manner regarding this need for dark things. The same way the beer companies play with our desire for sex or a good time. I have yet to ever see a beer commercial around me when I'm drinking one. Before I turned 21 I thought the bars were gonna be so 'cool' but the result of looking to alcohol for fun is a palpable loneliness that hangs in most bars. The same way many of our young men go to war programed 'be all you can be', only to go and set eyes upon the reality of the fact that you are killing someone's father/mother/child (and usually for some rich fucks agenda, whom's own son will never have to go to war) who in most cases has been played in their own culture to think you are the enemy and on and on.

Once upon a time young men were taken into an initiation rite at a certain point in their lives and they learned what it was to be men. They learned honor from the fathers of the tribe (and sometimes even used sacred substances to break free of 'mommy's bosom' in an environment of the safety and protection of the fathers, who'd been there done that). Where are these honorable fathers today (Homer Simpson, everybody loves raymond)? Gone the way of MLK Jr & JFK. I agree we need violence but the only time I feel justified is when I'm fighting for 'good'. And if it is for freedom of all and not just your political party or religion or agenda...then motherfucker, a real man is gonna kick your fucking ass. Cause when a real man looks at a child in harms way he sees his own child and you fuck with a child and your ass should be shot and if a soldier goes down with honor...he never goes down. But now unfortunately we have these diverging ideas about what is good due to media portrayal because the once honorable father has become an enron/bush administration/spineless fucking prick that doesn't give a fuck about anyone but himself and slings his mud from a pedestal of blasphemy, collects his royalties and never to come down and answer properly the questions of why...face to face/heart to heart...like a man.

Ever seen the magazine interviews of most of todays 'heroes'...these are mostly ridiculous questions. What needs to happen is that you guys need to get some sort of bucket and vote on questions for interviews and after a proper amount of time someone a little out of the loop (meaning not a side-taker) needs to pick the challenging questions that seem valuable. Seldom will these people ever answer the really hard questions.

Blah blah blah

Really it's all there in your heart. And if you look from these 'eyes of the heart' you can easily see we are all being turned against each other so that we don't see who the real enemy is....ourselves.

For my next trick I'd like to write a story regarding Chakras, our current state of affairs, Darth Vader and flat earth theory...can you guess where this goes?

[moneyisevil]

monkeys love their tvs

[submachine]

The best song on 10000 Days, Vicarious, also has some of Maynards most powerful (if simple) lyrics.

"The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been."

This reminded me of the author/scientist Richard Dawkins ( www.richarddawkins.com )

"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference. This is one of the hardest lessons for humans to learn. We cannot admit that things might be neither good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose."

555

[RidetheRedshift]

The best song on 10000 Days, Vicarious, also has some of Maynards most powerful (if simple) lyrics.

"The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been."

This reminded me of the author/scientist Richard Dawkins ( www.richarddawkins.com )

"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference. This is one of the hardest lessons for humans to learn. We cannot admit that things might be neither good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose."

555

I think that if you take a quantum approach to this logic rather than an outdated approach via relativity as this quote does, you see that as you believe...so you find. And so although on one level I might agree that the universe is indifferent. I definately disagree that the univers is hostile by nature. It is hostile by nature for the very reason that you believe it is such. Quantum mechanics shows that if you look for light as a particle ...so shall you find...if you look for a wave...so also shall you find. I prefer a spiritual reality where one advances incrementally beyond pure cold hostility to an understanding of how the observer affects the observed. I mean really we all die...that's pretty hostile. But for me I believe the end is but a new beginning (First law of thermodynamics: Energy is conserved; it can be neither created nor destroyed). Not 'heaven' in a religious manner but yet heaven in an energetic understanding and as I believe...so it becomes.


See I think this hostile environment is due to the fact that where chakras are concerned we are still using 'flat-earth theory'. See if you look at the world as flat meaning that your feet are on the 'ground' and therefore the sky is 'up' then it logically goes to follow that 'the world is hostile' for the base desires (root chakra end of the spectrum) are on the bottom and then logic tells this person that the highest goal of man is to realize (head chakra end of spectrum) this and to overcome this hurting heart via will.

But in fact this is not the case. We are floating in space. There is no 'up' or 'down', there is only 'center'. And the center of this chakra system is the heart and much like the center of the universe is the Sun an infinite source of light and energy that is only available when your side of the globe is facing it or via the moon when it's not (hmmm..interesting) but only as a 'reflection' or reminder that it exists. And so this is why spiritual doctrines have individuals that can perform 'miracles' via 'faith'. And also why people who only look out for themselves because the 'universe is hostile' may have interesting things to say but they aren't seen performing any 'miracles'. See I think the quantum energy necessary to open your third eye only comes through an open, clear heart chakra from this infinite source. When you see this you see that the base chakras and the head chakras are in fact equal energetic opposites around a center that is 'one' (the sun). This is the universes safeguard to keep George W's from attaining this third eye insight for evil ends. And why these loving spiritual enlightened beings are seen having halos of light around there crown this is energy traveling up from the open heart chakra. This person has 'clearance' for second sight.

[Stratos]

Very well said RidetheRedshift. Now just if people would realize that.

[John Doggett]

Realize that it was a load of bullshit?

[RidetheRedshift]

Realize that it was a load of bullshit?

very well put John. How long did that take you?


(dumbass)

[RidetheRedshift]

What is really cool is how this new tool can be used as a 'key' to so many problems. Scientists have a way to the heart/spiritual and fundementalists now have a way to understand that spiritual advancement has nothing to do with religious doctrine but rather the heart. And you cannot legislate heart. What's even cooler is that can freedom be far off? I would say that most definately drugs have helped me discover these insights and although I would never condon irresponsible use, my quest was supremely 'religious' and therefore protected under the constitution I believe. And at the same time it should resolve religious conflict right...it's all heart not all these little rules and regulations (although rules and regulations are certainly a part of it, but the system governs itself..if you want true happiness...it's not in a law (head chakra medicine), or a sedative (root chakra medicine) it's inside yourself. Eventually if you observe your own pendullum long enough you find what works. And of course you find center. How could you not? The swing to the left cannot be maintained indefinately, nor can a swing to the right. K now how do we get this memo to the entire planet? As I see it...it's just a matter of time....and space : )

[John Doggett]

very well put John. How long did that take you?


(dumbass)

I just aligned my chakras it was like turning on a faucet from which flowed direct wisdom from the Godhead.

[OutlandishTeacup]

I just found out that my uncle watches videos of people being beheaded in Iraq on the internet. This song applied so very well...

Awkward family dinner, though.

[submachine]

I might agree that the universe is indifferent. I definately disagree that the univers is hostile by nature.

You're confused.

The fact that the universe is indifferent leads those who don't understand that it is indifferent to believe it is hostile, and/or to believe in a higher power protecting them from this hostility and evil.

All explained by Dawkins

[RidetheRedshift]

You're confused.

The fact that the universe is indifferent leads those who don't understand that it is indifferent to believe it is hostile, and/or to believe in a higher power protecting them from this hostility and evil.

All explained by Dawkins

Okay if you think so I'm okay with that. I still believe that Quantum Physics is the key to understanding how spirituality works. I think that you should look at your problems from an atomic level too. I think you'll find (eventually) that 'as ye seek so shall ye find'. But I'm done with this circle for now. Once again we can either focus on the differences or the similarities and if we focus on the similarity's we can change the world around us in a positive way. Whereas if we focus on the differences all we can do is

"Zig Zag our way through the boredom and pain, occasionally glancing up through the rain, wondering which of the buggers to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing" Pigs on the Wing (Part One) (Waters)


______________

back to my own musings. Funny how the Relativity phase of this existence brought us the Atom Bomb (Adam Bomb) and now how this Quantum phase can bring us 'miracles'.

[phishman1]

I know...I work with a few guys who basically have a running contest about who can be the most desensitized about watching stuff like beheadings, etc... They really seem to get off on it. They always mention bangedup.com, but I'll be damned if I ever go to that site and see what all the fuss is about.

It's just really depressing that people would waste time on stuff like this. Hell, even the evening news...it's all garbage. Death, destruction. There's so much more out there than just the horrible things. I emailed my co-worker the lyrics to the song 'Lateralus' and he says Maynard is now a pussy because he's not telling everyone to fuck off every other word. Unbelievable...

I just found out that my uncle watches videos of people being beheaded in Iraq on the internet. This song applied so very well...

Awkward family dinner, though.

[RidetheRedshift]

Very well said RidetheRedshift. Now just if people would realize that.


Glad you liked it Stratos. Must....keep....building....this....ark ; )

[submachine]

I know...I work with a few guys who basically have a running contest about who can be the most desensitized about watching stuff like beheadings, etc... They really seem to get off on it. .

Regarding this subject, you need to differentiate between a few things.

Killing citizens for political or military reasons such as war or combat is a separate issue, it should be REQUIRED viewing by citizens of that nation, to know the enemy, to see the enemy, to fight the enemy, to defeat the enemy.

That is not what the song is about.

The song is about schadenfreude.

[shyfly]

We live in a extreme violent society. To make my point on my way home from work two nights ago i drove past some guy that was assisisnated. A cold blooded hit.

Seeing things like that freaks some one out..... the big issue at the moment is that the police are doing little to find his killers. The strech of road is known as "assiassanatiuon ally"

9 hits in the past 3 months. Robbery is not the motive on all these killing. The guy that was killed was some big shot business man.

That is the world we live in............................

[bellamadia]

If I were to recommend one book on this aspect it would be Iron John by Robert Bly. Yes we need warriors! We need warriors to protect our women and children. In short our future. However the media is playing people in this manner regarding this need for dark things. The same way the beer companies play with our desire for sex or a good time. I have yet to ever see a beer commercial around me when I'm drinking one. Before I turned 21 I thought the bars were gonna be so 'cool' but the result of looking to alcohol for fun is a palpable loneliness that hangs in most bars. The same way many of our young men go to war programed 'be all you can be', only to go and set eyes upon the reality of the fact that you are killing someone's father/mother/child (and usually for some rich fucks agenda, whom's own son will never have to go to war) who in most cases has been played in their own culture to think you are the enemy and on and on.

Once upon a time young men were taken into an initiation rite at a certain point in their lives and they learned what it was to be men. They learned honor from the fathers of the tribe (and sometimes even used sacred substances to break free of 'mommy's bosom' in an environment of the safety and protection of the fathers, who'd been there done that). Where are these honorable fathers today (Homer Simpson, everybody loves raymond)? Gone the way of MLK Jr & JFK. I agree we need violence but the only time I feel justified is when I'm fighting for 'good'. And if it is for freedom of all and not just your political party or religion or agenda...then motherfucker, a real man is gonna kick your fucking ass. Cause when a real man looks at a child in harms way he sees his own child and you fuck with a child and your ass should be shot and if a soldier goes down with honor...he never goes down. But now unfortunately we have these diverging ideas about what is good due to media portrayal because the once honorable father has become an enron/bush administration/spineless fucking prick that doesn't give a fuck about anyone but himself and slings his mud from a pedestal of blasphemy, collects his royalties and never to come down and answer properly the questions of why...face to face/heart to heart...like a man.

Ever seen the magazine interviews of most of todays 'heroes'...these are mostly ridiculous questions.

Great post, completely agree! Well, except for the part about women needing protection... the good ones don't, and the ones that do use their womanhood as an excuse to be weak and lazy. But I won't get started down that path.

[RidetheRedshift]

Here's a question for you. O.k. we all know about the third eye ,chakra connection. The third eye ( penial gland ) has same nerve structure as our EYES. So here comes the question. Is it known that we had a 3rd eye and it went away because of humans being close minded ( never using it ). Or are we developing the 3rd eye as 46&2( evolution).

(okay bear with my religious usage...I'm no holy roller but these images are what works. and if you get offended by 'christian' images and such you should realize that much of the 'good book's imagery came from previous occult traditions)

In my opinion human beings are like flowers. You ingest fruit from the 'tree of knowledge' (peyote, mushrooms) these are necessary for your flower to open (3rd eye to open), to realize our oneness with each other and our planet. Humans miss read the whole genesis/eden story. Humans weren't kicked out of the garden for eating from the tree of knowledge. You are HUMAN you will do this and your 'father' is well aware of that. We were kicked out of the garden for covering up our nakedness from 'God'. Like the creator doesn't know his children? When we covered up our nakedness...ignoring part of our awareness and the interaction with the divine...we lost our third eye insight. For it to open you must realise that we are one. You don't have enough energy to support hiding your nakedness and also opening your third eye (see interesting balance between head chakras and base chakras, how if you cover up your dick (metaphor for building a bigger 'sub-conscious, or unawareness for your shadow to hide in) you cover up your 3rd eye too).

As far as a timeline I would guess that the egyptions had use of their 3rd eyes. However in today's world we have access to 3rd eye openers from all over the world. Not to mention an amazing amount of knowledge a an incredible structure for spreading that knowledge very quickly. I think our developing 3rd eye insight is the only way for us to get off this planet (meaning survive the 'apocolypse') if we continue eating of the tree of knowledge to rob the poor, rape the earth..but refuse to eat of the tree where psychedelics are concerned to understand 'God' and morality. We are doomed.

[RidetheRedshift]

also an interesting note here is that the egyptians in their mummification process removed the brain and most other organs but left the heart. or something like that.

[wearethestories]

You ingest fruit from the 'tree of knowledge' (peyote, mushrooms) these are necessary for your flower to open (3rd eye to open), to realize our oneness with each other and our planet
so psychadelic drugs are how we open our third eye?
so we need to injest something foreign (albeit "natural") into our bodies that completely fucks with our understanding of the world around us (to use your God-metaphor/symbolism) and fucks with something God-given in order to REALLY be enlightened.

your theology needs some work, too --- the whole reason we were kicked out of Eden was because we disobeyed God... the shame nakedness was what happened to us when we fled from our Maker (and his "discovery" of our shame was what prompted him to clothe Adam/Eve with the flesh of animals, hence the beginning of the idea of atonement: that blood must be shed for sin, something has to die when we don't do what we should/what's best for us).

I understand what you're trying to say with the whole reworking the Garden of Eden thing, but you left a few too many holes for anyone to take it seriously.

and... have you listened to "Rosetta Stoned"? Part of the song (and I know there's MORE depth to it) seems to ridicule the idea of using drugs to open our third eye and reach a level of enlightenment.



...thoughts?

[RidetheRedshift]

your theology needs some work, too --- the whole reason we were kicked out of Eden was because we disobeyed God... the shame nakedness was what happened to us when we fled from our Maker (and his "discovery" of our shame was what prompted him to clothe Adam/Eve with the flesh of animals, hence the beginning of the idea of atonement: that blood must be shed for sin, something has to die when we don't do what we should/what's best for us).

I understand what you're trying to say with the whole reworking the Garden of Eden thing, but you left a few too many holes for anyone to take it seriously.


Hmmm... Maybe you should help me a little more here. I think my interpretation works. It's not something I 'know' because I read it in some book. It's something I feel. That rings in my soul. But I do remember hearing somebody say this interpretation once. And they mentioned that the original language made this more clear.

But even without that. Here is a segment of Genesis. Explain to me a little more why you don't think this interpretation works.

And regarding needing out side things. yes I do think we need 'outside' things. We are ONE. But here we are male/female, right/wrong, positive/negative...duality. So in order to open up yes I believe we need outside help. Perhaps in a world that was briming with love and openness, it wouldn't be necessary but given the current state of the world, I think it's impossible to understand the concept of 'living in love' without a good kick in the head. But I don't think these are necessary after one has 'seen'.




2:25
And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Chapter 3
3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
3:2
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
3:7
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
3:8
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
3:9
And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
3:10
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
3:11
And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

[RidetheRedshift]

okay i changed my mind...maybe you can do it with this...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzSRVgF501M

[JOK3R]

very interesting stuff and very well said RidetheRedshift. thanks for feeding my mind a little bit

[ATARI]

guys c'mon now les not bicker. I now all about the penial gland . It was a lil sarcasm . You dont need drugs to open you 3rd eye either.

I opened mine with a pickle

[RidetheRedshift]

I opened mine with a pickle

No. Actually Canada did a study in which it was proven that dispite popular opinion, pickles are suitable for opening your brown eye, not the third eye. A common misconception.

I think you've got the wrong end Atari.

[RidetheRedshift]

very interesting stuff and very well said RidetheRedshift. thanks for feeding my mind a little bit


I'm glad you liked it and recognized an interesting perspective from it.